me understand....

[catgirl1927]

I think your thing is the secrecy.

 

See, my BF and all his gang have this policy of "what she doesn't know won't hurt her." So I am forever finding out that he went to dinner with a group of people and some girl he dated was there. None of them will tell me because the first new years we spent together, he invited an ex of his and I was of course furious. She was such a snake, she had the audacity to tell me I was "so cute." She was one of those that acts like she's your friend so you won't suspect her, know what I mean? Anyway, it's the fact that they lie and you KNOW that they lie that is probably bothering you. When I asked my BF about it, he said they do that because there is nothing to get upset about, so there's no reason to make a big scene. It to this MINUTE bugs the crap out of me, because everything in my life up until now says no one lies unless there is something to lie about. The point of this crazy long ramble is to get it straight now. As hard as I try, I don't really REALLY trust him. I'm constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. All because we didn't work this crap out in the beginning.

[whichwayisup]

Why don't you ask Mr. Wonderful to set up a lunch or dinner date where the three of you can sit down, have a wonderful meal, and get to know each other better . If he or she don't want to do this then you will know something fishy is up.

 

This is a good idea. Couples who have friends of the opposite sex have to include their partner too. If there is nothing to worry about then it should not be a big issue. Plus, you'll notice RIGHT away if her intentions are something else. If she is "just" a friend, then she will be encouraging him to stay happy with you and also be perfectly comfy in getting to know you and allowing a friendship to grow with you too. If not, you'll also see that quickly.

 

Pay attention to her body language. How much she looks at him, or even touches him, if at all. How she talks...Does she monopolize conversations about THEM or is laid back and just enjoying getting to know you and being around you two as a couple.

 

By the evenings end you'll have your answers. Is she "just" a buddy or something more. And you'll also see how HE is with her, that is just as important too.

[basscatcher]

You can't change another person.

You can't control another person.

You can't make a person feel the way you want them.

 

I know these things myself and it is hard not to put on the Ms. Fix-Him cap...

 

The only person you can change, control and make into what you want them is you.

 

What I have been doing might be helpful for you..

I have been searching out:

what I will tolerate and what I won't

what I wiill accept and what I won't.

what I want and what I don't want.

what I need and what I don't need.

 

Figuring these things out yourself will help you to weight them against your situation.

It is your decision to make about your relationship.

 

He has lied to you and if he continues then you need to deciede if you want to live with that.

He has this friendship with this X whom he seems to have an over abundence of contact with--weird and he hides it from you and you haven't really met her or talked to her????

I would use caution also about meeting her and believe that she doesn't have an agenda. If she is the kind of woman who wants her cake and eat it too she might juggle several men. There are boards in LS that show women involed with men who already are involved. (I totally understand some fell in love before they found out the truth of their man.)

 

You maybe over reacting to this situation, unless you have been having these feelings long before any of us on LS starting making our comments, then you may have a ligitimate complaint.

Sometimes the power of suggestion can push us in a negative direction if we are vulnerable.

Look at your facts and look at your knowledge of this man. Look at his actions. Don't be blind to things you are noticing.

This drama is not for nothing but how out of control it gets depends on how you handle it and how much you put up with it.

[Delectable]

There seems to be a clear decision for you bf to make here whether he likes it or not. The "friend" is always going to be a point of contention between the two of you. -- The double edged side of that is if you present this ulitmatum to him he will likely tell you what you want to hear and continue his friendship in secrecy to avoid further confrontation. His actions sound shady but the bigger problem is the "friend". I would say you need to also confront her. As a man I would not only confront my wife but I would be in the face of the friend. She needs to be made known the problem she is causing. She has no respect for you or your relationship and at this point the BF doesn't seem to be doing much about it.

 

Sounds like a have my cake and eat it too for your BF and it is up to you to put an end to it or tolerate it.

 

Tudor {In the long run} I think I am going to ask to meet her, but I don't think I will confront her...I think I will learn all I need to know by his willingness to set up that meething and their interactions...or at least I hope.

--

BLIND_OTTER

Um. Trust issues and his friendship with his ex?

sorry mistype...I meant to say I just don't know what I can ask him to do right now...

--

CATGIRL1927

I think your thing is the secrecy.

 

As hard as I try, I don't really REALLY trust him. I'm constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. All because we didn't work this crap out in the beginning.

The secrecy has compounded everything and made things 10x worse...now I don't know what to think and my own issues have been kicked into high gear...I don't wnat to be years down the road thinking that I don't trust him and waiting for the other shoe to fall...I'm so scared - I can't stop crying.

---

WhichWayIsUp

Couples who have friends of the opposite sex have to include their partner too. If there is nothing to worry about then it should not be a big issue. Plus, you'll notice RIGHT away if her intentions are something else. If she is "just" a friend, then she will be encouraging him to stay happy with you and also be perfectly comfy in getting to know you and allowing a friendship to grow with you too. If not, you'll also see that quickly.

I think this is definitely going to be my plan of action...

--

Pada

He has lied to you and if he continues then you need to deciede if you want to live with that.

He has this friendship with this X whom he seems to have an over abundence of contact with--weird and he hides it from you and you haven't really met her or talked to her????

I would use caution also about meeting her and believe that she doesn't have an agenda. If she is the kind of woman who wants her cake and eat it too she might juggle several men. There are boards in LS that show women involed with men who already are involved. (I totally understand some fell in love before they found out the truth of their man.)

 

You maybe over reacting to this situation, unless you have been having these feelings long before any of us on LS starting making our comments, then you may have a ligitimate complaint.

Sometimes the power of suggestion can push us in a negative direction if we are vulnerable.

Look at your facts and look at your knowledge of this man. Look at his actions. Don't be blind to things you are noticing.

This drama is not for nothing but how out of control it gets depends on how you handle it and how much you put up with it.

I do know that I can't have anymroe lies...and yes...he hides their friendship and the reason he gives for this is because I will go apes*** if he mentions her name. I have gone apes*** but not always...this has been an issue from the beginning not just since your input...I very well may be overeacting....but I do believe in the power of intention and I have put a lot of energy into thinking negatively on this....

 

I feel like I need to meet her..but she very well may have an agenda...God I don't know what to do

 

I am of the school of thought that if people have nothing to hide...they hide nothing...

[basscatcher]

--

--

Pada I do know that I can't have anymroe lies...and yes...he hides their friendship and the reason he gives for this is because I will go apes*** if he mentions her name. I have gone apes*** but not always...this has been an issue from the beginning not just since your input...I very well may be overeacting....but I do believe in the power of intention and I have put a lot of energy into thinking negatively on this....

 

I feel like I need to meet her..but she very well may have an agenda...God I don't know what to do

 

I am of the school of thought that if people have nothing to hide...they hide nothing...

 

Breath hun... sleep, eat, journal. I have lived through your delima.. You will too.

Michael left me. I fell apart for the first time in my life. He was my soulmate and the love of my life. there was another woman.

 

Charlie has hidden things from me. He hasn't told me he loves me. He can't even express his feelings or thoughts. I don't know where he is at in all this. I know he senses I am about to end our relationship and I think he is stalling off time meeting with me to find a way to convince me to not give up yet. I don't want a long, long, long drawn out break up because of insecurities and fear of loneliness.

I care about Charlie and I love him but I can't survive intact and healthy in the relationship like it is.

[whichwayisup]

I think this is definitely going to be my plan of action...

 

It has to be.

 

Also, go in with the frame of mind that you're NOT worried about her, and their friendship. If you give off the wrong energy she WILL pick up on that and use it to her advantage...So play it cool and be relaxed, happy. Show HER in little friendly ways how good your relationship is so she won't be waiting to pounce. Be nice about it but in a certain way let HER know SHE is the one who is on the outside, just a buddy - NOT his intimate friend. That spot is reserved for one, and that's you.

 

Mind you, your boyfriend has alot to do with as well. IF he is encouraging her to be that close friend, that has to stop.

[Delectable]

Where is MadDog...lol...I was certain he would give input here.

[jerbear]

Had class tonight but it was canceled, yippie!

 

Taking a page from my small book of relationships. As a guy I was a very close friend to her (my-ex) who lost a guy because of me. She is a "private" person so she hides things from other people. She has gotten defensive when I ask who or what she is doing; she is generalizing and changing subjects; so I know something is going on. In the end she didn't want to hurt my feelings because she didn't want to lose me. either way she lost me.

 

For me, I don't maintain friendships with ex's because it is just very hard and feelings come back.

 

My feelings on the close friend (M), hiding the conversations, and being spending time to me is a little to close for comfort for me as a guy. I do not mind my SO to have close friends but they shouldn't also drop everything disappear for 20/30 minutes. As HIS SO, you do have some "rights & privledges." I am under the impression that if you have nothing to hide, show it, prove it by actions.

 

For those conversations that are "private" well there are times for that too since he is a friend of 'M' and vice versa. All my ex's know who my closests female friends are and know I have a LONG history with them junior high to best man in their wedding. But I do not call them everyday nor to they call me. Now regarding hidding behind emails is another story.

 

On your end, a lost of trust even if it is misguided or pointing in the wrong direction can distroy some of your trust in him. Very hard to regain trust.

 

I also do not like the idea of "I didn't want to tell you, so it wouldn't hurt you" I have been on that end many times and really destroys my trust and hurts my feelings that I could not be trusted or things are hidden from me.

 

I do have to agree with the other posters to meet the friend for dinner. Just three of you. While you two are at it meet the other friends. It can break the ice sort of speaking and you get to know who M is.

[amerikajin]

I'm only going off of what you've written here so far, but I think the problem started not with the friend per se, but when he started lying about their relationship. There was no need to lie about the timeline, and I'm sorry, I don't buy the 'amnesia' defense - you don't forget things like that. He was clearly trying to downplay her as a factor in the context of his relationship with you, and it started a rather lengthy pattern of dishonesty which simply cannot be ignored.

 

I am not saying that this in and of itself is something that warrants termination of the relationship, but it cannot continue to progress until the problem is acknowledged fully on his side and, more importantly, dealt with. The thing that bothers me is that he keeps lying again and again...not just once. He knows how uneasy this makes you feel, and yet he's lying to you and making you out to be the bad girl here.

 

As to what would work here, I don't know...but there might be some effective techniques. For one thing, the next time this happens, I wouldn't blow up about it at all. I wouldn't get angry or verbalize it; instead, I would take action. If this happens again, simply leave. Whether you leave permanently is up to you, but I think even leaving him for a few days without saying a single word to him would get his immediate and undivided attention. It would shock the s*** out of him, actually. And it will make him think long and hard about what he really wants. When he comes back, you just tell him straight up 'Next time, I leave forever. You will not lie to me anymore, do you understand me?'

[nicki]

Yes, Amerijikan! Great advice. Sure wish I had followed it myself when I was in the same situation.

 

My problem was talking too much about it with him. Spelling out rules for him to follow...which he didn't...he kept lying, telling me the same sh*t about not wanting to "upset me."

 

It was a nightmare. I never could trust him, ever...so, now...

 

I am allergic to exes. If my boyfriend didn't make me a part of a friendship with a girl, I'm out. No begging, etc.

 

Tell him you would like her to go to dinner with you guys sometime. Then go and see how she behaves. How he behaves. See what your gut tells you. Be confident. You are the girlfriend, not her.

 

Tell him that you would like him to mention when they talk. As a poster on this site said, it's just something that should be mentioned when sharing your day. As in, "I talked to M today. She is having a hard time at work. What do you think about her situation?." He should make you part of their friendship, so you know everything.

 

Good luck. Just don't talk the thing to death like I did. If he lies again, do what "Amerijikan" said. Leave. Go No Contact for a few days. Then tell him you will leave forever if he ever lies to you again. Honesty is a requirement to have a relationship with you.

[RecordProducer]

Delectable, you choose to see things as either black or white. You'll end up seeing everything black as very few things in this world are pure white. All these people that point out at his lies are no saints in real life either; they just have amnesia when it comes to their own lies. Nobody is perfect. We hurt the ones we love and they hurt us.

 

If I knew that my partner would be upset because of something, i would hide it from him either. I don't have to take anyone's crap if I think I am right about a certain matter. Your boyfriend knows that you will go crazy at the mention of M's name so he tries to protect you and himself from another storm. I hope that much you can understand.

 

You have two choices before you:

 

1. You can continue to fight with him about his friendship with M, expose your insecurities and jealousy all the time, distrust him and accusing him of being a liar and... sooner or later lose him.

 

2. You can let it go and show understanding rather than selfishness and enjoy your love.

 

I don't buy that statement about you not being assured by him that you mean a lot to him. If that's true then him cutting her off won't make him love you more. In fact, it may only make him love you LESS. Obviously he is not giving up on M and would rather lie to you and hide their friendship than ditch her. But the fact that he - a brutally honest person - is forced to lie because of your jealousy will eventually make him sick of you rather than her.

 

Remember what he said: he can't see just letting go of that friendship when gfs seem to come and go and he seems to hold onto his friends! So you're the one who came and might go, not her. if you can't accept his friend then you'll have to say 'goodbye', but you have no right to demand that he ends the friendship BECAUSE he lied about it. Your issues are between you and him, not him and her.

 

If these words mean nothing to you:

I know I have trust/jealousy issues but he has not made these any better by lying about 'M'. As he sat with his head in his hands last night he said...that he had been lying all this time to avoid losing me and to not argue about 'M'. He felt that if time could just go by and I could see how faithful and how much he cared about me that soon I would be okay with his friendship with 'M'.

then you are sabotaging your own relationship with your trust issues.

We had a mutha of all fights about this because in myself I felt special everytime that he would tell me that I had made him the happiest he had been since his dad died and that I was the first thing in a long time to make him happy...and I felt he was lying about all of that because he had dated after his dad died

What makes you think that she made him happy? The fact that they broke up so soon? My husband was the first thing that made me happy after my divorce, but he wasn't the first one I dated after my divorce.

[Blind Illusion]

 

Background:

ME: (early 30's) I have fidelity issues, father had a whole 'other family' lived a lie with mine and I was the kid that found out..

.

 

I don't really have any great words of wisdom to add here;just wantd to say that the above is "me too". I found out while working for an insurance company and seeing the file with the family's names on it.

 

I think when stuff like this happens, it teaches us to be extra viligant in looking for potential distrustful situations and wishing to get rid of them. I noticed that in your initial post when you say that you immediately knew something was amiss after the BRB and when she called and he said your name.. Maybe our minds have become fine tuned to notice the slightest nuances of something even slighty ajar. I know that is the case with me anyhow.

 

Not that this solves any of your dilemma.

[Delectable]

Well I spoke to him. He is going to arrange a time for us to meet.

 

The fact that he is willing to do this means a lot - this is a boundary that is important to me. I hope he follows through with this...he needs to.

 

I am tired of arguing with him about her...so very tired...

 

Our conversation tonight was heated and tempered...he has asked for some time to put his thoughts together and cool off.

 

I'm feeling very sad, lonely, and misunderstood by him...but I do understand his point of view and I love him.

[Delectable]

Why is it when he says,"I need to take time to sort things out" do I feel scared or threatened that he is saying,"I need to take some time to figure out that I don't want to be here?"

[johan]

...you choose to see things as either black or white. You'll end up seeing everything black as very few things in this world are pure white...

 

I like that. That describes my stupid ex who ruined our relationship by seeing everything not pure white as pitch freaking black. The fact is some of those things she got uptight about weren't even in the gray scale to be judged like that. They were green or blue or something. Things she judged as having moral, character implications that didn't have much value at all along those lines. Like meeting my friends when I said I would. She cast a shadow over that, judging it to mean I put them before her. How stupid. Did I mention she's stupid? Well she is.

 

Sorry to post on my own problems here. I guess some of this rings true. Except I never lied to her. I never wanted to. Except when she started pushing me, and then it was real damn hard to tell the truth. Because I knew what it would cost me. She insisted she had to ask things that most people know better than to ask. Then she didn't like the answer. And of course, what color did she turn that?? Black. Stupid. Now I'm left here dealing with all this crap from a failed relationship with a stupid woman.

 

Ok. You can have this thread back. I'm done with it.

[RecordProducer]

The fact that he is willing to do this means a lot - this is a boundary that is important to me. I hope he follows through with this...he needs to.

He doesn't need to and he won't. Even if he does ditch her, your relationship will suffer in the long run. You can only safely request from your partner to remove an unimportant friend from his life.

 

I am tired of arguing with him about her...so very tired...

Being stubborn is tiresome. You are not even aware of how tired he is of arguing with you about her. You're asking him to F off a dear friend.

 

Our conversation tonight was heated and tempered...he has asked for some time to put his thoughts together and cool off.

 

He is asking for time to figure out whether he wants to stay in a relationship with a controlling woman. He will probably keep associating with M behind your back.

 

I'm feeling very sad, lonely, and misunderstood by him...but I do understand his point of view and I love him.

I think you're the one who's not understanding in his eyes. How can you say you understand his point of view when you're asking him to cut off that girl?

[blind_otter]

 

I think you're the one who's not understanding in his eyes. How can you say you understand his point of view when you're asking him to cut off that girl?

 

What about her and her needs? She should sublimate this, and let it grow as a resentment? No way man.

 

Of course I have no idea why people want to be friends with ex's. Very dear fried my big brown butt. What, does he not have enough friends that he needs to farm out ex lovers and subcontract them as friends? Give me a break.

[catgirl1927]

What, does he not have enough friends that he needs to farm out ex lovers and subcontract them as friends? Give me a break.

 

Preach on, sista! I just don't believe you can go backwards.

[alphamale]

I think you're the one who's not understanding in his eyes. How can you say you understand his point of view when you're asking him to cut off that girl?

I agree RP....in a dating relationship I think it is OK to keep and maintain opposite sex friendships (even though I am not a believer in them myself). BUT....in marriage I don't believe its OK to keep and maintain opposite sex friends.

[catgirl1927]

I have no problem with opposite sex friends. But when you're "friends" with an ex, I mean come on...

[a4a]

Men form friendships with women mostly because they are sexually attracted to them. ( I just saw a shrink blurt that out on a program). Now if you keep a X around that you have had a sexual past with it would seem to me it would still be because of sexual attraction.

 

Of course female X's hold on for their own reasons. Sexual and emotional attachment..... self esteem boost.

 

An X is an X for a reason. No need to leave the door ajar, not much good will come from it.

[Delectable]

He doesn't need to and he won't. Even if he does ditch her, your relationship will suffer in the long run. You can only safely request from your partner to remove an unimportant friend from his life.

 

Being stubborn is tiresome. You are not even aware of how tired he is of arguing with you about her. You're asking him to F off a dear friend.

 

 

 

He is asking for time to figure out whether he wants to stay in a relationship with a controlling woman. He will probably keep associating with M behind your back.

 

I think you're the one who's not understanding in his eyes. How can you say you understand his point of view when you're asking him to cut off that girl?

 

RP as I said I would never ask him to do that. I am not sure if this topic is hitting too close to home for you but you are speeding down a path that is not accurate. Please re-read my pov on this topic.

[jerbear]

Men form friendships with women mostly because they are sexually attracted to them. ( I just saw a shrink blurt that out on a program). Now if you keep a X around that you have had a sexual past with it would seem to me it would still be because of sexual attraction.

 

Of course female X's hold on for their own reasons. Sexual and emotional attachment..... self esteem boost.

 

An X is an X for a reason. No need to leave the door ajar, not much good will come from it.

 

That is somewhat very true! Some of my closests female friends, not ex's almost became gf's but ended up being friends. They just happened to fall into the right place. Heck in one relationship, I slept over every weekend but nothing ever happened.

 

Yet she is a good female friend. I would introduce her to my friends and SO.

 

I would have to say many of my female friends help keep my sanity. Makes it very interesting when their women's instincts (plural) say the same thing while my male instinct says another. It is like it takes a thief to know a thief. Takes a woman to better understand a woman, and vice versa for men.

 

I do leave doors open for ex's, in case something really really bad happens because deep down I do care to some extent. At least I'll listen but won't take actions.

[RecordProducer]

Well I'll give you an example... My husband told me one day while I was still in Europe that he's going out with a good friend that he used to date many years ago. She lives in NYC, married, has a kid. I didn't say anything at the time, because I knew he loved me and didn't want to make a big deal out of nothing. He told me that when he dated her, he loved her but wasn't in love with her; otherwise he would have married her..

 

So recently when I was cleaning up his junk, I found a letter from this woman. According to the happenings she mentions in the letter, she must have written it about 15 years ago. In the letter she says that he doesn't want to commit to her, that he always puts other things before her, that he told her that he loved her, but wasn't in love with her, that he never suggests to do something together, and never has time for her... She was hurting because he obviously didn't love her enough. He even told her to put away his toothbrush when other man visit her!

 

This was 8 months into their relationship; I don't know how things developed later, but you get the picture... So how can I possibly be jealous of their friendship?

 

However they don't maintain a daily contact, they probably phone/email each other once in a while... frankly, I don't know the frequency and it's not important to me.

 

I could be friends with my exes, but none of them is the kind of person I would normally associate with. I would love to be fiends with my last ex-BF, but he still has feelings for me and wants to keep NC for his own sake. I think he is a lovely and smart person and I would enjoy his friendship without jeopardizing my marriage whatsoever.

 

I just think that you can't be in love with two people at once. If your partner is in love with you then you don't need to worry about his exes. If they are not in love with you... well then you totally have no right to demand anything.

[alphamale]

He told me that when he dated her, he loved her but wasn't in love with her;

could someone, for god's sake, please explain WTF this means??