I wish I could stop thinking about marriage

[Guest]

My BF and I have been together for almost 4 years and living together for 2 1/2 years. We have a strong, committed relationship - but there's one and only one problem...the marriage issue.

 

A year after we were together (we were living together then) he used to tease me and say little things like "Mrs." and "when we buy a house", or "when/if we have a kid". Things that you say when you are thinking that someone might be the one you want to marry. I figured that men (being as cautious as they are about marriage) don't say these things unless they mean them (or are just trying to make a woman like them.) It took me a while to think about it, but after lots of meditating on the subject, I found out that I could see him in my future this way. That we would have a wonderful partnership. So, knowing that he doesn't have much money, I figured that we could just discuss getting married together and buy a ring together, combining our money. I wanted him to know that I didn't care about a diamond, what I cared about was his commitment to me. He seemed nervous, but pleasantly suprised.

 

Fast forward to now. Nothing has happened. Over the past few years, we've had several blow outs about marriage. Usually with me instigating a discussion, wondering about what had happened - what did I do to cause him to get scared off? If I talked about it too much, I held my tongue...if I was too clingy, I backed off as best I could. I didn't want him to be pressured, and I didn't want to drive him away. I wanted to show him that I could wait for a little while, that we could work things out together. But, I needed to know if we were on the same path.

 

Every now and again, he would send me internet links of cities that looked cool to live in or of homes that he liked. We would talk about "when we buy a place" and where we would travel in the upcoming years. But, then all of that would be ruined by me demanding to know why, if we were talking about all these things, why weren't we on the road to marriage. His answer was always "I'm not ready."

 

Occasionally, he would say "Don't worry, things will happen soon" and I'd shut up for a few months, only to have it resurface again because I was sad that he hadn't followed through on the "will happen soon" talk. How soon is soon? I asked. He said that he was just buying time to think about what he wanted. We've been through this so many times.

 

I've tried to be patient, I've tried to convince myself that marriage is not necessary, I've tried to brainwash myself into thinking that marriage is stupid, I've even gone to therapy. But, its not working. Marriage is too important to me and I can't continue on living with someone who might never make up his mind. He knows how I feel about it and how important it is to me. I've written him letters, spoken nicely with him, taken care of him like a wife would...everything to show him what life would be like with me. But still, he says he is not ready. He is 28 and he says that he doesn't want to get married now because he is still young and there are other reasons that he can't figure out.

 

I feel hurt and abandoned. I was hoping something would happen on my 30th birthday, but nothing did. He knows how much this means to me and how I need to know that our relationship is going somewhere. I would be sympathetic if he had tried to think things through and figure out what his issues are, but it doesn't seem like he has. He just continues living with me as if the issue doesn't exist. I am getting resentful and just wish that he would set me free because he can't give me what I need..but he won't. So, now I find myself in a difficult position.

 

I suggested that we move out and live on our own so that he can figure out what he wants. I said that maybe us living together right now doesn't give him the motivation to want to get married. He agreed that this could be part of the problem, although his thoughts on marriage seem to vary all the time, so I don't know if I can take that as truth.

 

Last night though, we got in a huge fight and I broke down after months of being depressed about this - I thought maybe we should move out and just break up because I'm tired of proclaiming my love and intentions only to be met with indecision. I'm scared that our relationship will just stay the same, that he will be completely okay with keeping me as his girlfriend indefinitely.

 

When it comes down to the issue of kids, we've gone back and forth. One thing he mentioned during our argument is that he's nervous that he won't want kids and I will and that will ruin a marriage. I agree that we need the same goals, but I'm just as indecisive about kids as he is. One day I really want them, the next day I don't. I told him that I believe we could work through that because deep down we are scared of the same things - but I don't think that helps.

 

If anyone could give me some advice - we are definitely moving out. Should I stay in the relationship and see if not living together motivates him? Or, should I break up with him and move on, maybe finding someone else who will be ready if they love me?

 

I wish I could just take a pill that would make me forget about marriage. I hate it. I hate how I feel brainwashed by society that I have to get married in order to have a meaningful relationship. I want to be happy NOW, be happy with what I have..because overall, we are best friends and have a great relationship. But, I can't stop thinking about it. Its killing me.

[michelangelo]

Makes as much sense to me as it did to my grandmother.

 

If marriage is important to you then you have to leave this relationship.

 

Especially if you want children.

 

You've been with him long enough for him to know if he wants marriage.

 

Clearly, he does not want to marry you. He's just too chickens*** to say so directly. he just drops vague hints about the future.

 

Now if what don't want children and you really don't care about marriage, then stop bringing it up and jst live with him--with reduced expectations of the level of your relationship.

[tikigods]

Different people have different views, and some people marriage is very important and you shouldn't feel bad for feeling that way. Now here is the hard part, I think you are to the honest point where you need to sink or swim in this relationship. after 4 years you would think that he would be certain that he wanted to be with you, and yes its not fair for you to stay in a relationship that isn't going to go down the path you want.

 

You said it yoruself, you need to be with someone that has the same goals as you, its common to be scared and worried about what might happen if you are married, but in all honesty after 4 plus years, and the age you guys are at, I would think he would have grown up over those by now.

 

I don't think this guy will everwant to get married, and you need to decide if you could live with that, but I think its time for you to move on and find someone that has the same goals in life that you do

[bab]

If he's willing to let you move out, then most likely he's willing to let you go altogether. I'm sorry. Can he articulate WHY he isn't ready? I think that it is time to move on.

[catgirl1927]

I am not a cow, nor am I available for purchase, so I do not understand that theory. Women are not commodities to be traded. Ridiculous.

[blind_otter]

I personally don't understand the big deal. I hated marriage and don't plan on doing it again. But I am self-aware enough to date a person who feels the same way about marriage, rather than dating a man who really wants to get married -- I know that would make us totally incompatible. So, I think your BF is being a bit selfish.

 

I agree with tiki. You know what you want, he doesn't. So go out there and get it, time's a-wastin.

[Kengne]

Hey girl,

 

Good decision to move out. I believe you're moving out (or his moving out) will either make or break this relationship.

 

Either he will realize how much he wants you in his life, and be ready to get married - OR - he will realize how much he is NOT ready to get married. If it's the latter... PLEASE be prepared to walk away. If marriage is what you want, and if after living apart for at least ~ SEVERAL MTHS ~ he is still not ready to make that commitment to you, THEN you need to consider walking away.

 

Now is too soon. You guys need time apart, WITHIN the rel'ship, first.

 

Good luck!

 

K.

[michelangelo]

Catgirl,

 

I'm thinking you might be familiar with the idea of an allegory. The comment is not supposed to be literal.

 

That said, marriage conveys commitment to a couple. Financial, intimate, legal that just living together does not.

 

So if she lives with a guy and he gets "wifely" services from her, then there is no reason for him to go to the hassle of marrying her.

[catgirl1927]

Catgirl,

 

I'm thinking you might be familiar with the idea of an allegory. The comment is not supposed to be literal.

 

That said, marriage conveys commitment to a couple. Financial, intimate, legal that just living together does not.

 

So if she lives with a guy and he gets "wifely" services from her, then there is no reason for him to go to the hassle of marrying her.

 

I am extremely familiar with allegory. I am also familiar with insults.

 

Marriage to me is an emotional commitment, rather than a commitment to have sex with someone in exchange for room and board or a promise to get half their stuff. "Wifely" services? Good lord.

[michelangelo]

The man is not interested in marriage. He's interested in "wifely" services.

 

We both know that those are not the same thing. Marriage is the ultimate intimacy between two people. and it also extends legal financial bonds as well.

 

"Wifely" services extends nowhere. There is no intimacy.

 

What insult was intended? None by me!

[catgirl1927]

The kind of marriage you're talking about isn't intimate at all. It's a business arrangement. It makes as much sense as it did 50 years ago.

[michelangelo]

What's distasteful to you about having automatic protections in place via a marriage contract compared to just living together?

 

If you get in a car wreck, for example, your spouse can make medical decisions for you. A boyfriend cannot unless you've given him power of attorny or some such legal device.

 

If your spouse dies and you jointly own a house, you don't get probated for his half.

 

Putting all the above aside, there is something powerful about announcing your commitment before everyone in a marriage ceremony. Merely moving your stuff into the same place does not convey that.

 

A marriage combines a lot of things into one package that most folks would like out of a committed relationship. To get the same level of enmeshing together you'd have to do a lot of things.

 

If someone doesn't want that level of enmeshing then they ought to be honest with the significant other who does want it.

 

My point remains that teh guy the lady lives with does not want it, she does. and the reason he doesn't want it is because he gets all of the benefits of marriage, call it what you will, without putting out the commitment normally needed to acquire that.

[Sinead1981]

My point remains that teh guy the lady lives with does not want it, she does. and the reason he doesn't want it is because he gets all of the benefits of marriage, call it what you will, without putting out the commitment normally needed to acquire that.

 

I agree. Marriage and living together are not the same thing at all. I have never lived with a guy, and I wouldn't do it before marriage, but I guess everybody is different where that's concerned. My parents lived together before marriage, but my brother lived with his now ex-girlfriend for 4 years and they were engaged for a short time before breaking up. But there is no "one size fits all" where that's concerned.

 

In response to the original poster, your boyfriend is getting everything he wants out of the relationship at the moment. There is nothing "pushing" him to marriage. I don't think you have any reason to apologize for wanting marriage. You're obviously not getting what you want out of the relationship, so why stick around?

 

On the other hand, maybe your moving out will help him to realize what he's got. They say that many couples who live together don't end up getting married. If you say you won't live with him again unless he agrees to marry you, you'll know where you stand one way or the other. On the one hand, it could make him realize he wants to marry you. If not, well, then you'll know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's time to move on.

 

I'm with Michaelangelo with regards to the whole "why buy the cow if you get the milk for free" analogy in this case. It seems to fit.

[michelangelo]

I really didn't see how pointinig out the obvious using that alllegory was insulting, as cat thought it was.

 

The original poster may want children. i think she is only undecided about that because he is not really wanting any.

 

so if she keeps telling herself she may not want kids and another five years go by, she'll have essentially given up her best years for having a kid for this guy that really is not all that excited about her.

 

Sure, lots of women have babies after 35, but you know what I mean.

 

It takes time to get a new relationship going after one like she is now.

 

Yeah, a lot of marriages suck and have no better level of intimacy than some people who live together out of wedlock.

 

But I am unconvinced that the built-in impermanence of just living together illustrates a persons commitment to another when a marriage would do so.

[catgirl1927]

If the OP isn't satisfied with the relationship as it is, then she should end it. It really sounds to me like she's been with this person long enough for him to make up his mind, and "I'm not ready, I'm too young" sounds to me like "I still think I might get someone I like better than you." She should definitely move out.

 

She should not, as has been suggested, make a big show of moving out, symbolically dangling her coochie on a string, trying to manipulate this man into marrying her. She should certainly not be in the frame of mind that she has cheapened herself by "giving it away for free" and if she wants any self respect she must start demanding payment for her "wifely services." Turning yourself into a whore is not a straight line to self respect.

 

My advice to the OP would be that if you're ready for marriage, move on. Let this one go. Emotionally prepare yourself and GO. You shouldn't have to make ultimatums. Do you really want to marry someone who would only do it when his other option was "or else?"

[Sinead1981]

I have read a number of times that marriage is more important to women than it is to men. Right now her boyfriend probably likes the relationship the way it is so he has no reason to change. It seems to me that many men would be perfectly happy to date perpetually without any permanent commitment (i.e. marriage). This does not mean, however, that men are unhappy with marriage, just that they aren't necessary inclined to think of the idea on their own. Now, I'm sure there are men out there who are marriage-minded without influence from their significant other, but it seems to me that most fall into the other group.

[ladyinwaiting]

I tend to think if marriage is so important to you that you are prepared to move out, then you should make the break entirely. If agree that if he is willing to let you move out, he is probably willing to let you go.

 

BUT, I also think it's possible - even probable - that the children issue is essential here.

 

Marriage isn't that important to me, so I never really asked or encouraged my boyfriend to propose or anything. But, after he did propose, he admitted that he delayed a long time because he was concerned that I wanted children, when he didn't.

 

We discussed children when we first started dating. I had told him honestly that motherhood was currently further down my list of priorities than swimming with pirahnas, but that I couldn't guarantee how I'd feel about the matter in a couple of years if my maternal instinct kicked in. We dated for years, and while my feelings about motherhood never changed, he always worried that, by proposing, he was potentially denying me something that I might want - children. It was only after circumstances conspired to put motherhood totally off the agenda that he decided he could rightfully propose to me. I know that sounds weird, but it's very ... him.

 

In any case, if you two are to have any future together, you need to discuss the kids issue first. Leaving it for later would be a very big mistake.

[Guest]

Thanks to everyone who responded - I'm the OP. He just moved out about an hour ago and I'm sitting in our empty apartment in tears. I have another week until I move to my new place.

 

I know its going to be so difficult -we still loved each other, but I was no longer happy. I think I made the right decision.

[ou812]

guest - OP-

Hang in there , chin up. I understand what you are going thru. Please remember you are still 30 - you are still young!!!

Dont contact him , let him realize what life is like without - either way you will see how he really feels about you.

Let us know how you are doing!!!

 

TO Cat girl or whatever - are you serious???? You hate the analogy "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" and your icon is a woman in her underwear cooking a friggin turkey!!!! LOL