How many actual OW?

[Walking away]

Sami is dead on right with what she is doing....

 

Old Europe's advice is also DEAD ON.

 

I am with you 100% Sami. You are absolutely doing the right thing. It is the only way to go!

 

I am right with you, sister!

[Sami_D]

And me with you, WA. Take care

[Jessie61]

Thanks

 

Just want to reiterate... I'm not in NC because he was a pig, or was anything less than wonderful 99% of the time. I'm in NC because while he was on the edge of leaving her, no longer loves her, knows his future is with me... he knew that me being there for him was stopping him from actually doing it.

 

So, while some of you may think I'm deluding myself ~ and who knows, you may be right ~ what I believe I'm doing is going through with Old Europe's advice as offered to me earlier on this thread (AND on my earlier thread last Oct, only I wasn't ready then).

 

No, I'm not giving up hope. I don't see that I need to.

 

I don't think NC HAS to mean 'giving up hope'. I believe it can be a part of stating who you are and what you'll accept. You don't have to wait till you're at the pit of disaster, and he's dragged you over the coals into hell, and disregarded you, cast you aside, gone back to his wife, and posted on internet sites... you CAN GO NC without that.

 

That is what I have done. You can too.

 

Sami,

 

Great to hear from you again! I think you should be proud of yourself for being so strong.

 

I think you are doing the right thing, and the ONLY thing that you can do in the circumstances. And I certainly don't think your MM is a "pig" or anything else derogatory for that matter! Yes, we read about all sorts here on LS but I don't think that "ALL MM's are the same"... Far from it!

 

And I know what you say about "deluding yourself", I feel the same myself at times. I have faith in what I am doing but sometimes I still imagine what it could look like from the outside for people that don't know all the details and circumstances etc... My own cynical mind takes over and I ask myself WTH I am doing!???! But, Sami, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what WE think, you have to follow your own convictions! You are a the only one who knows what there is to know about your own situation; you are a strong, bright girl who knows what you're doing, so trust yourself!!!! OK?

 

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I am totally on your side and my thoughts are with you.

[whichwayisup]

My only question though Sami, and I mean this sincerely, for your own peace of mind...How long are you willing to wait? I understand you're in NC mode and if it works for you, that's great! My train of thought though is you may miss out on a wonderful opportunity because you're waiting for your MM to decide your future.

 

I just hope that if things don't workout as planned, you know when to say "enough" and walk away...

 

Good luck though and stay happy.

[Sami_D]

Thanks Jessie...

 

WWIU... I already have walked away. The affair is over. That's it.

 

I can't say how long this current feeling will last, or what will replace it. I have no idea whether he will be able to leave or not. Or how long it will take.

 

How it feels is like 'waiting', as you say. But that makes sense at the moment. But at the same time, these very same days, are taking me further and further away from the affair, away from all those bad feelings. I'm getting stronger and stronger knowing that I made the right decision and will stick to it whatever the outcome.

 

Until he calls (or never does), then we can't know whether I was 'waiting' or... 'letting go' all this time. It feels a little like both, as I say.

 

I don't know whether (assuming he doesn't call) there will be a definite point at which I think... ah... well... he hasn't left... he never will. Maybe there will be several. More likely I'll always wonder if he will get back in touch. That's me being realistic (look at MovingOn).

 

So... I don't think I can say well, if, after 3 months, he hasn't called... I'll do such and such. For one, because it would be completely arbitrary (therefore unlikely to work), and for two because... there's nothing more I can do... I'm already out of it.

 

Very hard to explain.

[movinon05]

You're right Sami. You live your life each day as it comes. No one can predict the future or how you will react in any given situation. And each day will be different. OldEurope is very wise indeed. And makes perfect sense.

 

(((hugs)))

[Walking away]

Thanks Jessie...

 

WWIU... I already have walked away. The affair is over. That's it.

 

I can't say how long this current feeling will last, or what will replace it. I have no idea whether he will be able to leave or not. Or how long it will take.

 

How it feels is like 'waiting', as you say. But that makes sense at the moment. But at the same time, these very same days, are taking me further and further away from the affair, away from all those bad feelings. I'm getting stronger and stronger knowing that I made the right decision and will stick to it whatever the outcome.

 

Until he calls (or never does), then we can't know whether I was 'waiting' or... 'letting go' all this time. It feels a little like both, as I say.

 

I don't know whether (assuming he doesn't call) there will be a definite point at which I think... ah... well... he hasn't left... he never will. Maybe there will be several. More likely I'll always wonder if he will get back in touch. That's me being realistic (look at MovingOn).

 

So... I don't think I can say well, if, after 3 months, he hasn't called... I'll do such and such. For one, because it would be completely arbitrary (therefore unlikely to work), and for two because... there's nothing more I can do... I'm already out of it.

 

Very hard to explain.

 

 

It makes COMPLETE sense to me. The affair is over. Period. And, I, too, have said those same words to my xMM. What we had is OVER.

 

I am right with you on this whole concept and action.

 

I, too, am completely out of the affair forever and I too am walking further and further away from the pain that it caused.

 

I know it is hard to explain to someone who maybe has not walked where we are walking, but to me, it makes perfect sense.

 

You are doing great!

[target-d]

Until he calls (or never does), then we can't know whether I was 'waiting' or... 'letting go' all this time. It feels a little like both, as I say.

 

I don't know whether (assuming he doesn't call) there will be a definite point at which I think... ah... well... he hasn't left... he never will. Maybe there will be several. More likely I'll always wonder if he will get back in touch. That's me being realistic (look at MovingOn).

It sounds like you are doing well, and I'm glad for you. I'd like to make one suggestion, though. If you think of this as "waiting" but the waiting is never ending, that is not good for you. For YOU, it's best if you think of it and act on it as "letting go". Then, if at some time in the future he does show up as a single man, then you may fall in love all over again. But you should also give yourself the freedom to not fall in love all over again.

 

Go on with your life. Period, full stop. Don't waste any of it wondering if someone from your past will show back up, that will only keep you where you are.

 

So... I don't think I can say well, if, after 3 months, he hasn't called... I'll do such and such. For one, because it would be completely arbitrary (therefore unlikely to work), and for two because... there's nothing more I can do... I'm already out of it.

 

Very hard to explain.

 

It really isn't hard to explain or understand. It's pretty close to what I was saying. Except for one thing. Hope. Hope is the killer because it keeps you from moving on completely. There is this little niggling "but if he shows up" thought.

 

Move on as if he never will. Though you can't believe it right now, maybe if he does show up you'll actually not want him anymore.

 

Anyway, good luck and best wishes.

[Sami_D]

Thanks MovingOn and Walking Away... the best of luck to you, too.

 

Thanks to you too, target-d.

 

 

Go on with your life. Period, full stop. Don't waste any of it wondering if someone from your past will show back up, that will only keep you where you are.

 

Well it would be a lovely idea, I believe it, to completely disregard my own feelings, and the facts as they stand, in order to 'forget' what the situation is, and attain some kind of... what? Amnesia... emotional nothingness? If that were possible for a normal human being to do, then I have NO hope, because surely he would numb himself in the same way... and we will never speak again! No, luckily and unluckily, we can't turn off these things... we have to go through them.

 

I already have all I need for the moment... I have peace of mind. I am no longer in an affair, I no longer suffer daily from hearing his worries about telling her, telling the kids, and everything else. I am feeling 80% better than a month ago. But I can't lose hope... it's not possible to lose hope. And I don't think it's 'a killer'... I think hope is what is making this period bearable.

 

Why take away the hope now, before it makes any sense to lose hope? Why go through all the despair of those feelings of losing him forever, when it may never be necessary to feel those feelings? How can I feel those feelings (of losing him, of losing a future with him) when I don't believe in that..? I don't believe he WILL call, and I don't believe he WON'T... I have no expectations. I think that's healthy.

 

If it were a year down the line, I think I might be worried... but 2 weeks..? It feels like forever in some respects, but it's the blink of an eye.

 

Besides, tell me how it would be possible to 'lose hope' without practicing some elaborate trick of the mind... and do they ever really work? I prefer to deal with reality. The reality is that he's trying to leave. If he fails, then he fails... I'll deal with that then. Time will change things, it always does. I'll lose hope when there's no reason to hope.

 

Please don't worry about me sitting here in 5 years wondering if the phone will ring. I think I can safely say that there comes a time when these things naturally die.

[Sami_D]

Though you can't believe it right now, maybe if he does show up you'll actually not want him anymore.

 

 

Oh yes... I can well believe that! I'm not so naive as to believe that I can't fall out of love with him after a while... I may not look so favourably on all the hurt caused to me by his long indecision, and his inability, once he'd made his decision, to deliver the news quickly to his wife.

 

I may not want to live my life with a man like that... once time has put some distance between us.

 

I'm not as green as I am cabbage-looking.

[movinon05]

Sami -

 

You rock!!

[StoneyHeart]

I don't think NC HAS to mean 'giving up hope'. I believe it can be a part of stating who you are and what you'll accept. You don't have to wait till you're at the pit of disaster, and he's dragged you over the coals into hell, and disregarded you, cast you aside, gone back to his wife, and posted on internet sites... you CAN GO NC without that.

 

That is what I have done. You can too.

 

Reading this has been SO HELPFUL!! I think i always have to end this badly. I am now trying (not doing well, think i made it most of a day one day this week), other days have been very limited, but couldn't bear to keep the block on (spending too much time checking for blocked messages). I am still 70% better than before, but this has been SO PAINFUL. I am physically ill from it. One day at a time. But I did want to say thanks for this positive spin on NC.

[Jessie61]

 

I don't know whether (assuming he doesn't call) there will be a definite point at which I think... ah... well... he hasn't left... he never will. Maybe there will be several. More likely I'll always wonder if he will get back in touch. That's me being realistic (look at MovingOn).

 

So... I don't think I can say well, if, after 3 months, he hasn't called... I'll do such and such. For one, because it would be completely arbitrary (therefore unlikely to work), and for two because... there's nothing more I can do... I'm already out of it.

 

Very hard to explain.

 

Sami,

 

I totally understand what you mean... IF it comes to that, then I think you will know when it happens. It might happen instantly or it might come gradually... Don't force yourself to do or decide anything, play it by ear. And like I said before, TRUST yourself! You are doing the right thing!!!

[yesmaybe]

You're doing the right thing, Sami. And you have the right attitude.

 

No matter what, you will come out fine. I'm sure you will have your weak moments, but as time goes on, you'll only get stronger.

 

This sort of mature, enlightened thinking is difficult for any person to realize - your MM would truly be missing out by not having you in his life. But then again, would you really want someone who doesn't fully realize what a gift you are?

[lovernotafighter]

You're doing the right thing, Sami. And you have the right attitude.

 

No matter what, you will come out fine. I'm sure you will have your weak moments, but as time goes on, you'll only get stronger.

 

This sort of mature, enlightened thinking is difficult for any person to realize - your MM would truly be missing out by not having you in his life. But then again, would you really want someone who doesn't fully realize what a gift you are?

 

I've been asking myself the same question...if my MM by now doesn't see me for what I am..or believes he is getting the best part of me and doesn't need the rest...well it will truly be his loss.

 

I do love my MM and I know there is a part of him that wants this part of me...but it isn't enough for him to walk away from what he already has...I try to think like him and it does help me...12 years of building a life with someone is no easy thing to walk away from...but given I'm leaving a 15 year relationship,alone. well I'll just say my MM is sealing his fate cause when it's over,I wont ever forgive him for letting the woman he is SO in love with hurt like this.

 

Sami if you remind your self of things you are gonna push your self further and further away from him and perhaps into a new life which will l be far better than with MM.

 

you don't have to quit loving him,but you don't need him to be happy either.

[Sami_D]

Your MM would truly be missing out by not having you in his life. But then again, would you really want someone who doesn't fully realize what a gift you are?

 

 

Oh, he realises all right.

 

But I get your point... It's win-win for me.

[Sami_D]

I do love my MM and I know there is a part of him that wants this part of me...but it isn't enough for him to walk away from what he already has...I try to think like him and it does help me...12 years of building a life with someone is no easy thing to walk away from...but given I'm leaving a 15 year relationship,alone. well I'll just say my MM is sealing his fate cause when it's over,I wont ever forgive him for letting the woman he is SO in love with hurt like this.

 

Generalising alert:

 

I don't know, LNAF. I think, from all I've read... men find it SO hard to walk away from a M. If only because they're just so used to being taken care of. They hate being alone, they don't want to look after themselves. Women can and do end marriages far more easily, because we do tend to 'be' the home... if that makes any sense..? All we're doing is kicking out the man. It's far different for them.

 

Which means we have to be FAR stronger than them if we want them to leave their present situation.

 

JMHO.

[movinon05]

Generalising alert:

 

I don't know, LNAF. I think, from all I've read... men find it SO hard to walk away from a M. If only because they're just so used to being taken care of. They hate being alone, they don't want to look after themselves. Women can and do end marriages far more easily, because we do tend to 'be' the home... if that makes any sense..? All we're doing is kicking out the man. It's far different for them.

 

Which means we have to be FAR stronger than them if we want them to leave their present situation.

 

JMHO.

 

Sami, you are so right. And I have come to realize this as well. I've said after reading what you, OE and WA have said, that I am getting a better perspective. Therefore, I am going back to the "no hope" situation for me. One thing I have thought about is that if MM were ever to approach me again, I would tell him that if his M was so bad, he would have to do the work to leave it without promises from me. When we talked about this in the past, he said, if I wasn't going to be there, there would be no point in leaving the M. In his M, his W does everything! She has more energy than the energizer buddy. She runs to a store for his meds, if he's out of creamer for his coffee, her house is spotless, she's always out running around doing everything. He has admitted to me that he is a handful (jokingly) and he "needs" to be taken care of. I used to swear to him that I would take care of anything he needed. But in reality, I used to think, "Boy, I don't know if I can handle someone who is used to having someone run circles around him to take care of every little thing." I'm exaggerating a bit, but it was very daunting.

 

So, that is why I think, unless he had a clear promise from me that I would be there, he won't leave. And he's not going to get that clear promise from me because he has too much to prove to me. I have a list of ways he would have to change, so I now have no illusions that it will happen. And I don't believe he is strong enough to go out on his own and take care of himself. He's got it too comfy there.

[Sami_D]

MovinOn I think you're right that if a man can't imagine leaving without a promise of another home set-up immediately, then he won't do it.

 

But you know... while it's very hard for them to leave, I don't believe it's impossible. It just depends HOW comfortable he is there... evidently not comfortable enough, if he's still sending you flowers...

 

What do the flowers mean..? At this point, they probably mean (I suspect) to keep you hanging on... possibly 'come back to me and fill in the spaces of my almost-comfortable life'... But that's not enough, of course.

 

I wonder that, when he looks at his future, is almost-comfortable going to be enough for the rest of his life..? Once he sees the flowers have failed... he might begin to think that he could get off his fat ass and get his own stuff for once..? LOL... you never know.

 

Glad you're holding out for something SO much better.

[movinon05]

Yeah, you know, he used to say, when he was ready to leave, that he wanted to be with me right away. Well that was impossible because I had my kids and I said I wouldn't do that to them. I'd say, give it 6 months and give my kids a chance to come around. He's say okay, but then he would try to say, how about 3 months, how about the end of July, how about.. (fill in the blanks). Then he would have whatever excuse not to leave. And then he'd be back to the old "What is the point in not being together right away when we want to be with each other so much? Its going to be too expensive to live separately. I'll do anything and everything I can to make your kids accept me. If they see how much we love each other and how well I treat you, then they will come to understand why we are together."

 

All easy for HIM to say!! I was not willing to take that chance. So even if he did leave, without promises from me, I know I would start to hear those same songs again. And I need to be prepared with my response. (I'm trying to prepare myself for everything and anything he might throw at me!)

 

My main thing is and was resentment - that his kids wouldn't have to deal with me! They have a home to go to without me in it. My kids would have to be confronted with this all over again and be "forced" to accept it. I just can't wrap myself around that. Its not fair to them! I cannot even fathom the turmoil! It sickens me!

[Sami_D]

movinOn... I have thought many times that your MM is Very manipulative! And selfish. What you've just said illustrates that yet again.

 

You are right not to have given in to him back then, and not to respond to his flowers.

 

YOU are SO right not to give in to him.

[movinon05]

Yes he's the king of manipulation. He did it very well.

 

That's why he has so much to prove to me. Even the trust issue is such a big one for all the horrible lies he told me. His excuse was "I just didn't want to lose you." Ugh, when I think of the lies! I have no problem in telling him that they just showed me how little respect he has for me.

[Sami_D]

"All Possibilities"

Badly Drawn Boy

----

 

All possibilities,

Are landing at my feet,

There's nothing I can see,

But possibilities.

 

All colours are changing in my eyes,

Your hopes are all fading, that will never do,

You're seeing the world through cynical eyes,

I'm seeing the world through the eyes of somebody new,

Oh there's a hope left, there's a dream still in my heart,

Look past the answers, there's a chance that there's no rulebook for this love.

 

All possibilities,

Are landing at my feet,

Theres nothing I can see,

But possibilities.

 

All the colours are changing in my eyes,

Your hopes are all fading, that will never do,

You're seeing the world through cynical eyes,

I'm seeing the world through the eyes of somebody new.

 

Oh there's a hope left, there's a dream still in my heart,

Look past the answers, there's a chance that theres no rulebook for this love.

[Guest]

I've just realised that of the three threads I've responded to this morning, two of them are from BW's trying to come to terms with what happened, and in the other one I was responding to a MM who seemed uncertain about his feelings (or what to do about them). This got me thinking about the population of the board, and I realised that most of the OW here are actually ex-OW or trying to be!

 

So, I thought I'd begin a thread asking about current OW, and where we are in the affair. Are you just on your way in? Up to your neck? About to end it? What is he telling you about his M? Is he happy? Is he unhappy? Do they have a sex life? Is he planning on leaving, now, sometime, or never? Is it mainly an EA, a PA? Where did you meet? Is it an age-gap relationship? Are you mainly happy, or unhappy with the arrangement? Have you had any D-days? Does his W know? How did she react?

 

I'll post a little about me in the next message.

 

 

Mine I guess has been going on for about a year and a half (oh gosh, how in the world did I get here, ALREADY?) I want to end it, but, I have my doubts. He says they are not compatible, and they got married young and that they were having problems way before I came along. He says he's not happy, they argue all the time, and they are not gonna have kids. He says they don't have sex. He says I'm the 1st since his W. I don't think he is planning on leaving, yet anyway, he's still in the militaty. EA and PA equally. We met in Iraq... I'm a year older. I am not happy with this arrangement. What's a D-Day? Don't think we have had any of those yet. His W doesn't know as far as I know.

 

All I know, is it all just sucks...

[stillhere]

Well, i can say my head is no longer above the water, in fact i'm drowning. We are madly in love, but he's not planning on leaving. He is 13 years older than i am. We've been together a year next month. We're very much EA and PA.

 

They do have an almost nonexistent sex life, although aparently it happens once in a blue moon. That makes me sick to my stomach. I am not happy with the arrangement, i want him all to myself. He claims there are no problems at home, but if there wasn't, i wouldn't be in this equation.

 

His W does not know about us, if she did, i think she would leave him. I want a normal life, and to be truely happy, but it's so hard because i want to have a life with him.

 

He's been getting a lot more brave, as if he wants to get caught. Yet, of course he doesn't.

 

Someday, i will walk away, find someone new, but i'm just not ready right now.