Where do we go from here?

[ImWithHim]

So admit it, IAMWITHHER is a cake eater. IAMWITHHIM is too young to see any different.

 

I am not offended because you do not know me well enough to attach a label to me. I appreciate your insight and will take it into consideration, but I will say this: My age is completely irrelevant in this matter. I am not some child going into this thinking he's going to divorce his wife, move in with me, and we will live happily ever after.

 

I have read countless threads in this section from people in relationships with MM and have yet to see a reference to their age. So I find it rather underhanded to say that my age is blinding me from reality. I am aware of the reality of it, as is he, and we have been extremely honest with eachother about what we face. We do talk about the future, quite often. There are many times that we do change the subject because it can be hard to think about what it would take for us to be together, but I assure you we have discussed these things in depth. If we had not previously talked about then, rest assured we would not be this comfortable talking about it on the forum and bringing others into what has, up until now, been a rather private world for the two of us.

[whichwayisup]

he is not sure he doesn't want to be married anymore

 

Then what he needs to do is spend time with his wife. Go to marriage counselling and see if having you out of the picture will either make or break their marriage. Only he knows the answers to this.

 

At this point in time, I still have hope that we have a chance.

The other issue is, the fact if you two DID end up together, could you truely trust him 100%? He met his wife, fell inlove, got married, had children, built a life with her and then here you are...I just see trust being an issue at some point for BOTH of you. And ofcourse, guilt. His guilt about leaving his kids, ending the marriage etc...He may not see that now, or want to, but this is why MOST MM end up back with their wives because they realize life with the OW wasn't what they thought it was going to be like. That and the guilt, missing life as it was before. Kind of a classic case of finding out the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. And that is why SO many OW get their hearts broken because the MM goes back and forth, but leaving the OW and seeing the wife again. He ends LYING to his OW so he can spend time with his wife.

 

Hopefully this 6 month stint will allow you both to have some space apart, figure out what to do. IWhim, I think that time would be really good for you so you can focus on yourself, your friends, and other interests. All your eggs are in one basket with this guy... I mean, when was the last time you went OUT and had fun with your friends, instead of being on the computer talking to him or on the phone with him? Just curious.

[whichwayisup]

have read countless threads in this section from people in relationships with MM and have yet to see a reference to their age.

 

I'll rephrase it then, I think what we're trying to say is, LIFE experiences rather than your age. This has nothing to do with your maturity, it's about wisdom and seeing what's around the corner, which just comes with age and experiences. That's all.

[ImWithHim]

IWhim, I think that time would be really good for you so you can focus on yourself, your friends, and other interests. All your eggs are in one basket with this guy... I mean, when was the last time you went OUT and had fun with your friends, instead of being on the computer talking to him or on the phone with him? Just curious.

 

I do still have a life.

 

I work, I support myself, I have numerous pets that keep me home at night. I've never been a party go'er and have zero interest in hanging out with people my own age because I have yet to find one that doesn't party hard and drink hard at this age. Every single one of my friends is older than I am, most married w/children. As such, we do things during the day when we are not working, and go home to our families at night. He works late...we talk then.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Hi IAMWITHHIM,

 

I am sorry if I offended you. Please do not take it the wrong way. Most posters here are really trying to help you see your situation. Whether you acknowledge having limited experience in relationships or not, we are here to point it out to you. We've been there. Most of us are not bitter. In fact, one of my best memories are being with my OM. We want you to be as cautious as possible. If you feel that you can handle the emotional load, then I'm glad for you. I think Blind Illusion has a good book reference to read.

 

If I had been in your shoes, I'd do what you are doing right now. I'd take the chance too. But I didn't know what the aftermath was... and I am tormented at not being able to be with my OM ever.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm sorry but your MM seems to be a cake eater..

Do a search on this type of cheater.

 

I think maybe you were looking for this:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t81010/

 

Brilliant post by LucreziaBorgia, btw. Although there were ALOT of superlative posts on that particular thread.

[Sami_D]

We both know that we are going to get hurt eventually, but neither of us wants it to be now. We both feel that we have something special (obviously not unique, but special to us at least), and neither of us wants it to end at this point. We make each other happy for the time being.

 

When the point comes when we no longer make each other happy, then, of course, one way or another it will end. A big part of me wants this to work out for us. However, we realize that meeting In Real Life could change things, but that time is so far off right now, its not worth worrying about.

 

You are both going to get hurt..? Or it's going to work out? You say both of these things within a sentence or two. I know ImWithHim isn't answering any of my comments about the disaster zone she's heading into, but I hope she is reading them.

 

YOU are sending her wooly, mixed messages, your words are full of hope for her. You are stringing her along. You're mentioning it 'working out'. Hello... that's in YOUR hands. She will have no control whatever about whether it works out or 'one way or another ends' or she 'gets hurt'. It's disingenuous for you to talk as if you too are blameless and unable to make a difference here. YOU are the one who can do the right thing... and you're talking as if it's all a big adventure for the two of you.

 

What you're doing is vastly unfair to her. What your saying is making me very angry. I hope some of this gets through to her, because you're evidently going to go right on with this. Unfortunately, I'm just a harridan on a message board, and you're her Mr Perfect. Whose words is she going to listen to?

[Sami_D]

There is also an interesting section on how to have a successful affair. I use that words "interesting" & "successful" for lack of better ones. However, it is practical advice and usually that isn't as forthcoming in any literature dealing with this subject. It includes tips like not having any further expectations of this relationship and accept it as it is. Those are the types of affairs that last longer. Or to have your own independence and interests apart from the relationship.

 

What a way to live out your early twenties... practicing 'having no expectations' of the romantic relationship you're in.

[Sami_D]

Sorry to sound like I'm having a go at you, really I am. I'm trying to help, even though it may seem like an attack!

 

I am aware of the reality of it, as is he, and we have been extremely honest with eachother about what we face.

 

The thing is... what YOU face and what HE faces are two different things. His options all all open, and for him to decide and face (I won't say 'choose' because it's evident he wants it all, at whatever cost to you). YOU won't have any choice open to you but to walk away or stay locked into this because of the 'possibility' that it will all be OK somewhere down the line. Which is ironic, because it will be YOU who faces all the pain, disappointment, heartache and misery of this. He will not be suffering in any way. What he faces is the option between to women... or to keep them both hanging on.

 

And he will be able to do it. Look at how you're talking (swallowing your needs, pretending they don't exist, and you can live on the hope of your perfect tomorrows, because 'it's not the right time' for him to divorce!). Look at the other thread I just contributed to where the W of the MM who has just left says she'd have him back if he went back! Amazing how these men get away with it, but they do. Cake-eaters know exactly which women will lay down and take it. You are one of those women, and you're walking into misery.

[grateful]

What are you two really looking for in this thread? You say "guidance" but you dispute all warnings and advice, much of it coming from current and former OW who want you to be aware of the pain you are hurtling towards.

 

Do you think that all these other affairs have crashed and burned because the MM and OW weren't as smart as you, hadn't done enough internet research, hadn't had endless discussions about why now isn't a good time for the MM to leave his marriage? Could you be that arrogant?

 

You are not going to have a successful affair. You do have the chance, however, to save yourselves a lot of pain if IWHer gets a divorce and you start this off on the right foot. It is never going to be "the right time" - - things will always come up.

 

IWHim, this man who you say you care deeply about has admitted to offering you crumbs:

 

I guess in some way I am hoping that some good can come from the relationship. I try to show her what's good about herself, to encourge her in her dreams, and give her a friend to talk to. The way she appreciates it feels good to me. Knowing that I made her smile makes my day. She tells me that is enough for her, though I know one day it won't be. When that day comes, we will both have a decision to make.

 

 

Why is that enough for you? You have your whole life ahead of you... why not insist that you have a partner who can give you everything? It takes some perserverance and patience to find a single man who is right for you, then it takes hard work to maintain the relationship "IRL" and all that that means - paying bills together, making career decisions not just for yourself and but for the good of your partner, sticking it out through illnesses and deaths in the family, etc. Phone and email relationships have an element of fantasy. Couple that with the fact that affairs are also built on the fantasy of the tortured true love soulmates who met at the wrong time, and you have to ask yourself - - can you really know that this is the man for you? How can you pull back all those layers of fantasy to see what this realtionship can really offer you "IRL?"

[movinon05]

There is nothing more I can add that someone has not already said. But I just have to wonder why you bothered with this thread since it seems that no matter what anyone says, you are going to go through with this no matter what happens.

 

No offense to your age, but it reminds me of my children. 3 boys, 20, 19 and 14. They all think I don't know what I'm talking about half the time, yet in the end, they still come to me for advice when they need it and usually take it. I guide them as best as I can. I do agree with the posters who referenced your life experiences. It is life experiences that bring us to where we are and give us the knowledge of what is going to happen. Because we've been there. (I was the OW). Rather than letting these LS posters guide you, you're just explaining everything away so that it helps you justify what you are doing.

 

I'm sure you will be going through with it. I wish you luck and hope you never have to hear "I told you so."

[whichwayisup]

I think it's a good thing for them to be talking this out here ... Maybe giving them both some insight, what to expect...What to do and what not to do.

 

There is no point of talking them OUT of this relationship as it is now - As each of them want it.

 

My train of thought is, preventing them from meeting face to face because right now it's still sort of fantasy...Because it's online and on the phone - It's not a "real" relationship in that sense...It may feel real with all the feelings, and they probl know eachother as well as anybody can online/phone.

 

IF they meet, it will bring on a whole new set of pain for BOTH of them.

[EnigmaXOXO]

ImWithHim …

 

If only you could step outside of this online fantasy for a moment; read between the sappy, romantic lines he writes; and REALLY see the true character of this individual your are about to involve yourself with.

 

True, he has gone out his way to make you feel special (on screen) … yet until he meets you, he can not guarantee that you will ever be enough to leave his other woman for. As a matter of fact, he's already presented you with his 'escape clause' by stating in advance that it is unlikely that he will walk away from the life he already has to start a new one with you.

 

You will be sequestered to the shadows … reduced to nothing more than his shameful little 'secret' that he must hide away from the world and all those he respects more than you. You will not be a welcomed part of his other life. You'll not be invited to his home, his family events. You'll not be introduced to his children, his relatives and his friends. You'll spend holidays alone aching and wondering what he, his wife and children are doing. Wondering if he's making love to his wife … if the smell of her is still on him when he sneaks over to make love to you.

 

I ask you … what kind of 'Man' would twist his half-hearted sense of familial obligation into some kind of noble, honorable deed while at the same time lying and perpetuation a fraud over those he claims to be caring for?

 

What kind of 'Father' would claim to love his children while at the same time using them as his selfish excuse to carry on with another woman behind their mother's back? A real father leads by example and would never risk his own children's safety and well-being to the consequences of an affair and the potential fall out.

 

How cold hearted and self-absorbed would someone have to be in order lye to every single person in his life for the selfish pleasure of having his weaning ego stroked by a young, naive woman who has not experienced life enough to know what she is getting herself into. What kind of greedy person would even ask (someone he's never met) to take that kind of risk for him. Give him everything without the expectation of receiving anything in return?

 

By surrogating yourself to fill this man's needs, you will only be making it easier for him to remain in a marriage he's already left. He'll give up nothing and take everything he can get from everyone until his luck runs out and someone is left to make his decision for him.

 

This coward won't risk his phony reputation or leave his comfy home life until he's forced to by the consequences of his actions. And while he's busy dealing with the wreckage he's created with his own family, there'll be no time left to help you pick up the shattered pieces of your life.

 

You'll simply end up just another one of his many casualties.

 

How romantic…

[movinon05]

Oh, if it was possible to transfer all the hurt ahead of time to give them a really good idea of how painful it will be for all. I cannot imagine putting myself through that torture again nor will I. Yet they are fortunate enough to have the benefit of all of these people's experiences. But it won't stop them in the end.

[zarathustra]

You're both right Enigma and Movinon.

 

IWHim, you said that people are questioning your age and that you have older friends, married with children. I myself was not a partying type in my twenties and I don't regret not being one now that I'm in my thirties. What I think that people are saying is that no matter what age, this situation is not ideal. No matter what age, you will be hurt by this. No matter what age, this will impact you for the rest of your life. I think the reference to your age is because there is so much living to do in your twenties aside from the life you are living. I know that in my twenties, my mother encouraged me to date more, not to settle with one guy and I thought that they were insane!! But what they meant was to really see what men are out there instead of hopping from one serious relationship to the next without a break in between as that was what I was doing. At the time, I thought that my mother was crazy for her suggestion but looking back, I see merit in her suggestion as she did live more than I did by the time she reached at my age. Sure, she made mistakes, but I think it was because of her mistakes in life that she gave me the advice she did and looking at you now, folks on this forum are doing the same.

[EnigmaXOXO]

My marriage began way too early, and happened between two kids who had no clue what they were doing.

 

Even ImWithHer admits that at that age, he had no clue what he was doing. (still doesn't) … which may explain why he would even entertain the idea of persuading this young woman to complicate her life as he has/is.

 

And I would like to ask ImWithHer … That as parent, how he would feel if one day one of his own children (at a very young age) became romantically involved with someone much older who was already married and had a family. What advice would he give one of his own daughters or sons knowing the kind of pain that lay on that road ahead of them?

 

How will he ever face this young woman's parents and family knowing what he's done?

 

Beseech your conscience … not your libido.

[Walking away]

Even ImWithHer admits that at that age, he had no clue what he was doing. (still doesn't) … which may explain why he would even entertain the idea of persuading this young woman to complicate her life as he has/is.

 

And I would like to ask ImWithHer … That as parent, how he would feel if one day one of his own children (at a very young age) became romantically involved with someone much older who was already married and had a family. What advice would he give one of his own daughters or sons knowing the kind of pain that lay on that road ahead of them?

 

How will he ever face this young woman's parents and family knowing what he's done?

 

Beseech your conscience … not your libido.

 

Just have one word to say.....AMEN.

[whichwayisup]

ImWithHim …

 

If only you could step outside of this online fantasy for a moment; read between the sappy, romantic lines he writes; and REALLY see the true character of this individual your are about to involve yourself with.

 

True, he has gone out his way to make you feel special (on screen) … yet until he meets you, he can not guarantee that you will ever be enough to leave his other woman for. As a matter of fact, he's already presented you with his 'escape clause' by stating in advance that it is unlikely that he will walk away from the life he already has to start a new one with you.

 

You will be sequestered to the shadows … reduced to nothing more than his shameful little 'secret' that he must hide away from the world and all those he respects more than you. You will not be a welcomed part of his other life. You'll not be invited to his home, his family events. You'll not be introduced to his children, his relatives and his friends. You'll spend holidays alone aching and wondering what he, his wife and children are doing. Wondering if he's making love to his wife … if the smell of her is still on him when he sneaks over to make love to you.

 

I ask you … what kind of 'Man' would twist his half-hearted sense of familial obligation into some kind of noble, honorable deed while at the same time lying and perpetuation a fraud over those he claims to be caring for?

 

What kind of 'Father' would claim to love his children while at the same time using them as his selfish excuse to carry on with another woman behind their mother's back? A real father leads by example and would never risk his own children's safety and well-being to the consequences of an affair and the potential fall out.

 

How cold hearted and self-absorbed would someone have to be in order lye to every single person in his life for the selfish pleasure of having his weaning ego stroked by a young, naive woman who has not experienced life enough to know what she is getting herself into. What kind of greedy person would even ask (someone he's never met) to take that kind of risk for him. Give him everything without the expectation of receiving anything in return?

 

By surrogating yourself to fill this man's needs, you will only be making it easier for him to remain in a marriage he's already left. He'll give up nothing and take everything he can get from everyone until his luck runs out and someone is left to make his decision for him.

 

This coward won't risk his phony reputation or leave his comfy home life until he's forced to by the consequences of his actions. And while he's busy dealing with the wreckage he's created with his own family, there'll be no time left to help you pick up the shattered pieces of your life.

 

You'll simply end up just another one of his many casualties.

 

How romantic…

 

This is a great post reply!

[Blind Illusion]

What a way to live out your early twenties... practicing 'having no expectations' of the romantic relationship you're in.

 

I meant to comment on this earlier but I had to go get my son an Easter suit that he decided he wanted. (can I be any more last minute??)

 

You're right, of course. Maybe when I read such things, I am projecting my own situatuon and twist on it. ( being older, and in a marriage that I will eventually leave-perhaps for ME to be in an affair with as little expectations as possible was a wise choice, especially, if I was able to master it entirely)

 

I know she should probably run for the hills. She isn't going to. They already passed the point of no return. Even in spite of the fact that they have never met. I was at a point once that I'mWthHim is at, having a deep involvement but never meeting. If that was yanked away from me or I gave it up, there would have been the deepest void ever. My hunch is that if I"mWithHer never spoke again to or met I'mWithHIm, he would always glorify and romanticize her in his mind and that would also interfere with his marriage anyhow.

 

Everyone is giving both of them advice to move on. I'm not saying that is bad advice. Hardly. I just wanted to give them another outlook, if they do proceed, because I believe that is probably what will happen anyhow.

[EnigmaXOXO]

… I believe that is probably what will happen anyhow.

 

Yes.

 

And those poor children will have their worlds torn apart by their daddy … anyhow.

[erika2610]

Yes.

 

And those poor children will have their worlds torn apart by their daddy … anyhow.

 

I dunno what the situation is in his household, but if Him and his wife are fighting, that's no good either. My parents divirced when I was a teenager, and they both moved on and found other people. They fought quite often. I would've rather them split up and found other people to be happier with than to stay in the marriage 'for the kids' which is what my dad did.

[Sami_D]

Yes.

 

And those poor children will have their worlds torn apart by their daddy … anyhow.

 

Hmm. Maybe. There is still time for him to meet ImWithHim, decide she's not as interesting as he thought... and go back to playing happy families.

[zarathustra]

I agree with you Erika. Looking at my folks who never divorced because of the kids, I feel several things: 1) guilty as hell that my parents suffered because of me, 2) that I never knew what a healthy relationship was because they were not good role models, and 3) because I didn't know what a healthy relationship is, I'm not sure how to be in a healthy relationship.

 

So while my folks were doing what they thought was the right thing, I feel that they certainly didn't do me and my sibblings any favours by staying together.

[erika2610]

I agree with you Erika. Looking at my folks who never divorced because of the kids, I feel several things: 1) guilty as hell that my parents suffered because of me, 2) that I never knew what a healthy relationship was because they were not good role models, and 3) because I didn't know what a healthy relationship is, I'm not sure how to be in a healthy relationship.

 

So while my folks were doing what they thought was the right thing, I feel that they certainly didn't do me and my sibblings any favours by staying together.

 

Exactly. That's why I hate the excuse 'We're only together for the kids'.

[Sami_D]

I know she should probably run for the hills. She isn't going to. They already passed the point of no return. Even in spite of the fact that they have never met. I was at a point once that I'mWthHim is at, having a deep involvement but never meeting. If that was yanked away from me or I gave it up, there would have been the deepest void ever. My hunch is that if I"mWithHer never spoke again to or met I'mWithHIm, he would always glorify and romanticize her in his mind and that would also interfere with his marriage anyhow.

 

Well, perhaps. I know I heard it over and over from MM that he didn't want to leave because of the kids. And that was so true... his M was dead, he knew it, and I knew it. BUT... that means NOTHING. In the long term... why should the OW sacrifice her needs and life on the altar of his failed M and his kids lives..? hmm...? SO he and she hit it off... so what?

 

What is going to happen... is HURT, for her. Because she will want him, will want more. OK, I've lived through it (hopefully... my story is at an end), but you know... my MM didn't ever sound like an arrogant whatsit. If he'd ever read this kind of thing before we hooked up he would have walked away. And all I can hear from ImWithHer is... blah blah maybe maybe maybe.

 

And Maybe I'm projecting, and getting my anger out here. And maybe we can never never help anyone caught at the beginning of an affair (I've never seen it happen!) but... that's not going to stop me giving all my advice, all my experience... and it's not going to stop me saying that I wouldn't have wanted MY first real relationship to have been one with such a selfish and using person.

 

Don't you have parents and friends to talk to about this..? And if not, why not..? Dont' you realise you're a sitting duck for this man's advances? You may well be intelligent (I have a PhD!)... but you're also someone willing to sacrifice your own immediate needs for the 'good of.. etc'. That is NOT a happy combination. Believe me... I've lived my life as that person.