Where do we go from here?

[ImWithHim]

What happened to 'all comments welcome, good or bad, supportive or not'... lol.

 

You're not reading or listening to anything. Your choice. Personally, I think attacking people who took the time to try to warn you off something they have some knowledge of to be extremely childish and your criticism of me to be ungrateful and silly.

 

No responder has been attacked. I'm sorry you feel that way. I simply don't appreciate you bashing him in our own thread. I understand if you don't agree with the relationship, but as per LS TOS, insults are unwelcome.

[movinon05]

Those that are on this section, for the most part, are those that have had failed relationships resulting from a MM/OW. Those that meet someone, fall in love, and leave their SO, likely do not seek out an internet forum for guidance because it worked out. Who's to say we don't fall into that category? The difference is we came here together, in advance to learn about what we are doing so as to go into this as open mindly as possible.

 

Another myth you are both hanging onto. Everyone thinks theirs will be different when they go into this. I used to read other forums about this topic a few years ago and thought "Well that will never be me." Fortunately I never wrote in them because I never would have taken their advice either and would have come crawling back telling them they were right.

 

All this and you two haven't even met yet!

[Sami_D]

No responder has been attacked. I'm sorry you feel that way. I simply don't appreciate you bashing him in our own thread. I understand if you don't agree with the relationship, but as per LS TOS, insults are unwelcome.

 

Quoting your last post: "I don't at all appreciate the underhanded (and at times, especially by Sami D) snide remarks"

 

Snide remarks? I commented that I thought my posts looked like they were attacking, but were meant to help. I commented that no doubt I sound like a harridan... lol... I am SURE I do.

 

I don't 'disagree' with being an OW exactly. I've been one for 2 years... because... like you, I thought he wasn't ready for leaving yet... But, even 2 years ago, my MM was certain his M was dead, and he was just trying to do the best he could. I don't get any of that angst from your MM... he sounds like someone who is OK with the problems we're all outlining that YOU will be going through... he sounds selfish... he sounds all the things I really wouldn't want to get involved in. If you think I'm being snide... I'm not. I'm being OPEN and honest about my opinion of that man. He's using you.

 

Where is he now..? I'd be really happy to hear his point of view about this. I'll argue it... or I'd be pleased to hear his argument that he has YOUR best interest at heart. He might think he does... but I doubt he knows what an OW goes through. MY MM... who loves me... who's been working his way to D... who was through with his M before we even met... knows one tiny fraction of the agonies I've been through. No MM can possibly know what it feels like. This is what I'm trying to tell you. I'm not 'being snide' about someone you love. I'm looking out for YOU.

 

I'm not 'bashing him', I'm pointing out that neither of you know anything. And he knows nothing of what he's proposing to put you through.

[climbergirl]

Ok-here's food for thought and a question...........you state vehemently that he isn't selfish, that he caters to all your emotional needs, but do you think he (or you for that matter) is being selfish regarding his wife, the mother of his children? Is he attending to all her emotional needs and wants? You and he both have a voice here, she doesn't--and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, she and the kids are involved in this affair as well.

 

Someone wise once said regarding affairs; Leave by the front door, not the back.

[whichwayisup]

Someone said earlier he is being selfish. I hardly consider him selfish for taking so much time out of his day to ask how MY day has been, comfort me when I'm hurt or upset by someone, and reassure me that my feelings do matter and that knowing what the likely outcome will be, he will understand if I want to back off. I have read so many threads here where the MM 'pursues' the OW relentlessly. We take care of eachother, we 'pursue' eachother. This is not a one sided relationship. In fact, I initiated the contact that first night (though I did not know he was married at this point in time). He is not selfish.

I think by saying he's selfish, most of mean he's selfish because he has TWO women in his life.

 

Ofcourse it's not onesided...It's mutual. I guess what most see is that he has wife who he still can cuddle up to, sleep with and talk to. Even though you feel your needs are being met now, if it comes down to a family crisis going on and his wife needs him and you having a crisis at the sametime, he IS going to choose his wife. I know you may not want to hear that, but it's true.

 

Someone mentioned (I think B_I or Enig) about his children blaming themselves. I want to add this. Children (of ALL ages) are not stupid. They DO pick up on certain energy that is going on in the house. They also snoop, listen in on conversations and find out things which you'd never expect to them to figure out...Just please keep that in mind. It's the issues NOW that WILL affect them later in life. It just isn't showing yet.

 

We all carry s*** from our past, our childhood. We learn how love and relationships are supposed to be like from what we see growing up at home, between our parents. THAT becomes the norm that we compare our future relationships to. Another thing to keep in mind.

 

Anyway, I'm glad to help you both out. It's an odd situation to have an OW and a MM posting together but hopefully you both in some sort of way will help others in your position, and give them more insight to know what to expect.

 

And yes, not all MM are pigs. They could be as lovely as pie, giving and loving. Problem still is, the lying, hiding and having two women. Having two women is just selfish. How can it not be? Unless it's ALL out in the open and everybody involved knows the game. Problem is, his wife hasn't a clue what's going on...Or his kids.

[grateful]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Initially we responded to all the questions asked of us as openly as we possibly could. We were not at all defensive. People asked, we answered. I guess I don't see how that is defensive?

 

Well in response to anyone's warnings about pain you will face, based on their own experiences, you've only described why that will be different for you ("we have our eyes open" etc) or explained how difficult it is for him to leave his marriage (which is pretty much the case for every MM and his OW, but you know that becuase you've been reading the forum, right?)

 

I suspect that many thought their words of warning would cause us to just step back and tell eachother it wasn't worth it, WE weren't worth it. If that were the case and we were swayed that easily, we wouldn't have much of a relationship now would we?

 

My words of warning encouraged IWHer to get a divorce so that you could be together. Or do you two not have that much of a relationship?

 

Guidance and advice, IMHO, are two very different things. Advise is, "Here's our problem, please let us know the steps to fix it." Guidance is, "Here's our problem, please help us cope with what we are going though." That, I suppose, it more what I was looking for. You don't have to agree with something to help someone through it.

 

By your defintions, in order to offer some one "guidance" you may occassionaly have to offer "advice." No one has to take anyone's advice but you haven't just discounted the "advice" you've been given in this forum, you've discounted much of the "guidance" and chocked it up to "well they are disgruntled OW who have been treated badly by MM so their experiences won't help us."

[Walking away]

I have tried so hard to remain silent on this forum for personal reasons, but I must speak.

 

To answer your question, Sami, "Where is he now?"

 

Most probably HOME, spending time with his wife and kids....and SHE is here on Loveshack ALONE.

 

Welcome to the club, ImWithHim...

 

I hope for the best for both of you, really I do...but you sound EXACTLY like my MM and I sounded, too. UNTIL his wife found out about me. Yes, he has contacted me...tells me he misses me and loves me...but, he, like your MM, is not "ready" to leave. So, I am left alone to deal with the destruction of what our love has done to ALL THREE of us. And, it is an UGLY, UGLY path.

 

What will happen, I am wondering, if his wife finds out about you? Then what? Will he be ready to leave her then?

[Blind Illusion]

No one has any crystal balls working that they can predict their own futures, let alone another person's. True, we can make educated guesses or we can make predictions based on our experiences but that doesn't make it a reality.

 

I really cannot judge another person's household and what it is like to live there any more than anyone can really appreciate it what it is like to live in mine. Thus, I rarely like to make sweeping statements about what is right and wrong. Things are relative, anyhow and I always figured that everyone can just worry about their ownself and what they do or don't do. I won't appoint myself to do that for them. It's not right or fair.

 

My thought is that when people seek out advice and want to share their feelings, that is a gift in a way. That's hard to do. Very hard, for me anyhow. They should never feel that they have to justify or defend their feelings lest people will stop putting themselves in that vulnerable position. No one should ever call another selfish or naive. Firstly, it's not right and secondly, there's a part of that in everyone if you really think about it. One might convey their experiences and outcomes to give food for thought to another person but it's always good to remember that everyone's life agenda and desires are different. Different isn't always bad. It's just different.

 

That's my last two cents on this.

[grateful]

ImWithHer:

 

When you read over ImWithHim's posts in this thread, do they confirm that your relationship is good for her in the way you described (i.e. friend to talk to, support of dreams, etc)?

[silktricks]

You two think of yourselves as being in love, but you haven't met each other in person. (By the way, I stronly agree with all the people who have posted that this is NOT a good idea, and you should go NC.) but I don't want to talk to you from that angle.

 

The reality is that you don't really know each other. You are both in love with fantasies, and you are addicted to those fantasies. Writing (whether paper letter, e-mails or txt messages) does not show reality. Neither do phone conversations.

 

IWHim - you're only 21. There are many many very wonderful men out there who are NOT married and will be a "perfect" match for you. He will be a real life lover.

 

IWHer - take care of your wife and marriage. If it doesn't work out, then leave, but stop with the playtime fantasy and get on with real life.

 

(Like Sami_D I never read your posts so don't know your other comments)

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Now I have to chime in again.

 

IAMWITHHIM: Yes, you are being defensive. You make excuses for your MM and for your behavior. You try to rationalize your liason. The truth is, if you accept guidance, you'd say "good-bye" to him. There is no way you can rationalize being with him because he is married and is much older than you! Do you agree with that... at least?

 

If you still want to pursue this relationship - and yes, it is dysfunctional - then accept the road ahead of you. That is all we are saying here!

 

Good luck!

[blind_otter]

I just read this whole thread of passive aggressive, rationalization, seeking external validation for behaving in a manner that is just acting out because of cognitive dissonance. Wow.

 

Denial is not a river in egypt, man.

 

It's so crazy how people will twist themselves up like pretzels when the ultimate issue is "I don't wanna because this feels good! It must mean something!"

 

Like any drug, dude. This is just like any drug. Something is missing in both the OPs lives. Maybe IWHim is lonely, or has some other issue that she is avoiding by seeking solace in a rich fantasy world. Maybe IWHer is dealing with the fallout from bad decisions in his past, dealing with the regret that comes with growing up, and fighting that awareness.

 

So they seek solace in a fantasy relationship that is great, because she doesn't realize the jealous exW, the screaming babies who want to like you but feel disloyal to their mother. He doesn't have to see her crying in front of him, or feel the push-pull between his exW, his children, and his new SO. The reality of relationships, with the stinky socks, and grocery shopping, and arguing about stupid s***, has not sunk in.

 

And I'll say it again -- your brain doesn't finish developing until your mid-20s. The last part of the human brain to mature governs rational though and logic and decision making. So I'm not surprised the OP responded to comments about her age with "You don't know me". It just a neurobiological fact, ok. Don't kill the messenger.

 

In any event, I am nothing if not intimately familiar with the need to rationalize something that is just. so. wrong. we make up the idea of soulmates, and romanticize relationships, because the realtiy of statistical probablility and emotional baggage isn't really the material of fantasies.

 

I wish you both the best on your path towards personal growth. But don't lie to yourself. All the conversations, building castles in the sky -- are not preparing you for the reality of the relationship. you're just killing time right now, until you get to the point where you want to or are able to deal with your real lives, as awful and lonely as they may be.

 

That's what growing up is about. Realizing that resisting temptation will ultimately make you feel much better in the long run, but will make you feel much much worse in the short-term. I've gotten to the point, because I value my sobriety, where I am willing to make those painful sacrifices in the short-term, to accept my life and the cards I was dealt with grace and honesty. I won't run away any more. I hope you eventually reach that point as well.

[Walking away]

You two think of yourselves as being in love, but you haven't met each other in person. (By the way, I stronly agree with all the people who have posted that this is NOT a good idea, and you should go NC.) but I don't want to talk to you from that angle.

 

The reality is that you don't really know each other. You are both in love with fantasies, and you are addicted to those fantasies. Writing (whether paper letter, e-mails or txt messages) does not show reality. Neither do phone conversations.

 

IWHim - you're only 21. There are many many very wonderful men out there who are NOT married and will be a "perfect" match for you. He will be a real life lover.

 

IWHer - take care of your wife and marriage. If it doesn't work out, then leave, but stop with the playtime fantasy and get on with real life.

 

(Like Sami_D I never read your posts so don't know your other comments)

 

 

I agree with you here....

 

ImWithHer,

 

Why don't you seek this woman out and find her when you are FREE? Wouldn't it be better that way? For, you WILL hurt this woman eventually. Not intentionally, of course, but you WILL hurt her if you continue on this path....

 

Fix your marriage, or don't. Either way, find this woman when you are able to give her ALL of you. And no less than that. She deserves that.

[Sami_D]

... the reality of the situation is that with a wife and kids at home, the chances of him leaving her are very slim... there's likely to be a very big crash at the end.

 

You said it (post #1) ... why constantly fight against what you already know?

[ImWithHer]

Okay, I'm here. I haven't abandoned anyone, and I'm not runnig and hiding. Please keep in mind that I do work, and have other responsiblities in life, and I can't be online all the time. Even if IWHim and I were married, we wouldn't have the exact same schedule.

 

First, I would like to acknowledge that I have been demonized in this thread. I AM a MM having an emotional affair, so I suppose that's fair - I expected to hear this. I am not proud of what I'm doing, and feel no sense of honor for it. I don't enjoy the fact that my actions are hurting people. I never expected to be in this position.

 

Most of the posters have been harsh, but helpful, and to you I am appreciative. I did not come here to make myself feel better, or to find validation, or to harvest excuses. I am here to try and find some light to shine on the darkened path we are on, and many have provided that light, ugly and disheartening as it is.

 

A few posters have suggested that I'm some kind of predator, scheming for ways to get as much as I can out of both relationships without regard for anyone's emotions except for my own. A few have hinted that I hold out promises like candy, or purposefully send conflicting messages to ensnare the hapless OW into blindly clinging to me. I'm sure there are a few OW saying these things, even while they dream of their own wonderful MM.

 

I- we- did not plan for any of this to happen. We met in another forum as friends who admired each other's opinions, sense of humor, and thoughtfulness. I never hid my marital status, or suggested we should become more than friends. She did not persue me romantically. We simply grew in our affection for each other until we found ourselves neck deep in an emotional affair. We both realize that this is far from an ideal situation, and now we're working damage control.

 

I do love and care for IWHim, and I don't want to see her hurting. I also don't want to hurt my wife or children. The worst part about this is that no matter which direction I decide to take, I will end up hurting someone. I am not prepared to make a decision at this point, because I am two weeks from being in six months of very little contact with both my online lover AND my family. I am hoping this time will provide some clarity for all of us. IWHim will still be a member of this forum while I'm gone, please don't push her away. She will be needing all of your support during this time.

[Walking away]

You are an honest man. And, I respect you. You sound very much like my MM. It is a tortured relationship, to be sure. And you are right...pain if you stay and pain if you go. I know this well, for I walk in those shoes...For his wife found out about me just seven months into our affair, and although he loves me dearly, his hand was "forced" before he was ready to leave. So, I became the sacrificial lamb. And, ALL THREE of us have suffered incalculable pain...For he loves me, I love him, but he loves his life and family too much to leave. And, I love myself too much to stay.

 

I think the six months away will do you both alot of good...It will provide some clarity for you. I truly do hope for the best...for both of you.

[movinon05]

IMWher - I don't consider you a predator and I am not demonizing you. I think most of us are speaking to IMWhim because she is so young. (IMWhim - try not to take that personally). You are older, have a family, more at risk, and you know better. But most of us also know what is probably down the road for her (let alone everyone else). And I really don't think IMWhim really has a grasp on what she is probably headed for no matter what she says. Sorry again to IMWhim. But I can't help feeling the way I do. She is always going to come second in your life (or 3rd or 4th - behind all the loved ones in your life already) and that is a miserable place to be when you love someone so much it hurts. We can't help trying to at least try to get her to realize how devastating that pain bill be. And everyone elses pain.

[Ladyjane14]

The worst part about this is that no matter which direction I decide to take, I will end up hurting someone.

 

IWHim is 21 years old. Believe me....she'll get over it. Your wife, on the other hand never will. She'll be damaged, and evermore afraid to invest herself in whatever relationship comes her way.

 

Now, you've been told by LS members representing every possible angle of the human romantic relationship that what you're doing is a bad idea. You've had input from OW's, divorcees, and long-time married folks. Every response has essentially directed you toward the path of honesty.

 

You've asked for "guidance", I offer you this..... Get off your can and repair your marriage. If you give it 100% dedication, you will likely be successful. And if the marriage fails, you will have the comfort of knowing that you weren't a cheater or a liar, and that you did everything within your power to preserve your family. You will be able to look 'the man in the mirror' directly in the eye, and take pride in the fact that your choices are made within the edicts of your own value-system.

 

And IF your marriage fails despite ALL your efforts, you will be an honest man when you offer yourself to another relationship. But that offering should NEVER be to IWHim. Because until you've relinquished her altogether FOREVER, you can never be sure that you truly did all that was necessary.

 

You are bound by your own oath to do no less. That is what you vowed when you married. To do less is to forsake all honor.

 

My two cents. Take it or leave it.

[ImWithHer]

You are an honest man. And, I respect you. You sound very much like my MM. It is a tortured relationship, to be sure. And you are right...pain if you stay and pain if you go. I know this well, for I walk in those shoes...For his wife found out about me just seven months into our affair, and although he loves me dearly, his hand was "forced" before he was ready to leave. So, I became the sacrificial lamb. And, ALL THREE of us have suffered incalculable pain...For he loves me, I love him, but he loves his life and family too much to leave. And, I love myself too much to stay.

 

I think the six months away will do you both alot of good...It will provide some clarity for you. I truly do hope for the best...for both of you.

Thank you, Walking Away, but you are wrong. I was an honest man. I cannot claim that now.

 

I am, however, a sincere man. I hope that one day I can come through this and be an honest once man again.

[Walking away]

Thank you, Walking Away, but you are wrong. I was an honest man. I cannot claim that now.

 

I am, however, a sincere man. I hope that one day I can come through this and be an honest once man again.

 

It is not too late to do the right thing. It will be hard...one of the hardest things you would ever have to do....but in the long run, so much pain will have been spared.

 

And yes, you are sincere. And human....something we all need to remember.

[movinon05]

If you love someone, set them free...

 

Let her find a normal, happy relationship.

[Ladyjane14]

I was an honest man. I cannot claim that now.

 

I am, however, a sincere man. I hope that one day I can come through this and be an honest once man again.

 

There's no reason why you can't do that. Walking Away is correct.

 

What you have to recognize though that what you're experiencing is NOT love. It's Infatuation. Big difference.

 

People don't give enough credit to how strong a monster "infatuation" really can be. The seeds of true love are planted in it, but by itself....it's a temporary biochemical reaction. And in your particular case, most likely it is borne of escapism.

 

I'm telling you...and I'm old enough to be that girl's mother, she's going to change so much between the ages of 21 and 31 that she'll eventually be like a whole different person. You're throwing away your family dynamic for someone that you can't possibly know....because she doesn't exist yet as she will someday exist.

 

And as you contemplate divorcing your wife, I have to wonder if you've fully visualized your losses. You haven't spent the day trying to find something to occupy your time while your wife is busy marrying another man. You haven't heard your kids call him 'Daddy-Bill' or whatever it is that they'll call him. You haven't searched your brain for some nicey-nice comment to say upon meeting your children's brand new half-sibling.

 

You may not know it, but you are ALREADY in danger of losing your wife. There may not be a choice for you when it's all said and done. Because every scrap of the energy that you've invested in IWHim was diverted from your marriage, stolen off your wife's plate. You're already looking at emotional distance because your wife doesn't "live in every room of your house". (Google the words "Why Women Leave Men" and read the article you find there. You'll understand what I mean.)

 

Compound emotional distance with physical distance for six months.... You might have nothing left to come home to.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

I'm telling you...and I'm old enough to be that girl's mother, she's going to change so much between the ages of 21 and 31 that she'll eventually be like a whole different person. You're throwing away your family dynamic for someone that you can't possibly know....because she doesn't exist yet as she will someday exist.

 

 

Exactly what I said earlier! I married my husband when I was 23.... Now I'm 33, and a brand new woman! Life is just starting for me!! Yoho!

[Ladyjane14]

Exactly what I said earlier! I married my husband when I was 23.... Now I'm 33, and a brand new woman! Life is just starting for me!! Yoho!

 

You would NEVER have recognized me at 21.

 

OMG, I was such a 'wild-child'. Nobody could tell me nothin'! Thank God we grow up though. I'd never have made the distance otherwise!!!

[ImWithHim]

Gosh, sorry guys...I was playing in my sandbox and completely forgot about the thread until my mommy called me in for dinner.

 

What'd I miss...?

 

...nothing apparently. Thanks to those of you who answered in a kind and mature way, to the rest of you, no longer necessary to reply as I have realized this is something we will have to get through together without the need of an internet forum. Take care all.