Where do we go from here?

[ImWithHim]

You have not been married, so you probably have a pretty rosy view of the 'perfect marriage'? Well, let me tell you that I have what appears to be a perfect marriage. We have everything that other people would want. But not many people would know that I absolutely cannot stand being with my H for more than 10 minutes at a time. He is very dense.

So what I'm trying to say is, the fact that he is married, says that he is having trouble within his M and is seeking pleasure elsewhere instead of trying to work on his M. If you stay on this forum long enough, or if you read some older posts, you'd recognize your MM in many of these posts. That's a guarantee!

 

I meant to reply to this last night but we got caught up talking and I didn't get the chance.

 

I really appreciate your posts - it does make sense and I know any physical contact is only going to make it all the harder. Having said that, we do still plan to meet. I can't imagine not meeting at this point.

 

Regarding marriage, I actually have a rather negative view of it having grown up seeing numerous divorces, including a nasty & hateful marriage and eventually divorce of my own parents as a teenager. They could not be happier now that they are seperated. I do have a pretty good idea of what he's going through (as much as I can anyway, never having been in that position). It's a matter of "I'm not happy, but it's not bad enough to leave.." and I understand that. I think we both realize that him and I talking is not going to help matters, but our feelings keep mucking things up. Perhaps the 6 months away from both of us will give him a chance to figure out what he wants out of life, I hope it does anyway.

[Sami_D]

... I do not expect, nor want, him to up and leave his family for me. We are not at that point yet.

 

... What if we hit it off when we meet as great as we did online...what if things do not work out with his wife and they do get divorced...what if, what if, what if....at this point, it may be unrealistic, but it is all I can fall asleep to at night. The alternative is no contact, and neither of us is anywhere near ready for that.

 

Train wreck waiting to happen. You DO have hope... that's what the 'what ifs' are all about. You're not 'at that point yet'... but you will be. AND going NC does NOT get any easier once you've met and slept with each other.

 

... He means the world to me, but my intentions are not to be a homewrecker and his are not to desert the family he has already built.

 

Yes... you go right on kidding yourself that being a 'homewrecker' (aka him doing the decent thing and divorcing his W rather than cheat on her) is far worse than being an OW. Nothing like demonising other people to make yourself feel good about making really BAD choices in life.

[ImWithHim]

Yes... you go right on kidding yourself that being a 'homewrecker' (aka him doing the decent thing and divorcing his W rather than cheat on her) is far worse than being an OW. Nothing like demonising other people to make yourself feel good about making really BAD choices in life.

 

That was not my intention at all. I don't feel that one is necessarily worse than the other and I certainly was not saying that to "feel better about myself."

[Ladyjane14]

..... but he wants a divorce (if one happens) to result from their failed marriage. Not from "me" breaking their marriage up. I agree with him on this.

 

At the rate he's going...the marriage is doomed to failure. What you don't feed withers and dies. Nonaction is also an action.

 

While he's putting his time and energy into you, he's starving his primary relationship. This will cause emotional distancing which will eventually destroy the marriage.

 

Waiting around "to see if it works out" is just....waiting around. There's no way his marriage is going to recover while he's cake-eating. He can't attend to Emotional Needs within the marital relationship while he's distracting himself outside of it.

 

If he truly wants to give his marriage and family a chance, he needs to end contact with you completely. And he needs to 'come clean' with his wife so that they can BOTH put 100% of their energy into healing their family.

 

Withholding anything from the marriage defeats the reconcilliation process. The effort is wasted if it's only a half-assed attempt.

[zarathustra]

Ok. I'm going to dump my worthless two cents into this.

 

IWHim, your answer to KHLFknowing that he will likely not leave his wife for you, why do you imagine a life without him. Unless he leaves his w, you don't truly have him.

 

IWHer, I have a few questions for you. Hope you can be candid with me...

1. If you say that you would only leave your wife because there are problems and not for IWHim, is there anything in your marriage that is not good?

 

2. If your marriage is decent, why are you thinking of straying from the nest?

 

3. Could you imagine the cost if your EA and potential PA would be if your W finds out?

 

4. Do you imagine what it would be like to see your kids every other weekend and perhaps once during the week day?

 

5. How do you think you would feel about being a part time father?

 

6. If you were found out and you and your W gets divorced from it and your children one day find out about why "Mommy and Daddy" divorced and are old enough to understand what's going on, how will you deal with their resentment?

 

IWHer, I have asked my xMM to answer all of these questions and told him that if he is to be with me, he needs to be able to walk away from his W. I did not want to be an OW. He left his W for me only to go back to her a few months later and turning me into an OW anyway and leaving me with the same pain as a lot of us OW are experiencing here on this forum.

[ImWithHim]

4. Do you imagine what it would be like to see your kids every other weekend and perhaps once during the week day?

 

I'm going to let him respond to these....but I'm going to hit on this for a moment. Those children are welcome anytime, any day into any home we would ever share. As much custody as could be legally granted, they will always be welcome.

[whichwayisup]

First I'd like to say, I commend you for posting and putting yourself in the possible line of fire. Most will be understanding, will listen, give their thoughts, maybe harsh at times, but respectful. Just be prepared for the rude remarks and some bashing. Ignore and don't get sucked into that game.

If you want help, you'll get it here, but I just hope both of you realize how hard your lives are now.

 

We can talk all we want about meeting in a public place and keeping things platonic, but we both know the reality is that we will leave that public place and go somewhere private. And I know he's as scared as I am to cross that unspoken line.

 

Don't EVER meet face to face. If you do, it will mess up BOTH of you. So, make that a number one priority. You think it's hard now, imagine if you two got intimate in real life...That pain will be unbearable! Right now it's on a more even keel. If you know what I mean...

 

The other problem is...He isn't yours for taking. He belongs to his wife, so to speak. As much as he is here, reading and getting inside the heads of OW, maybe learning on what NOT to do, the whole "affair" you guys have going on can't last forever.

 

To be honest, you two met at the wrong time in life. The love is there, the friendship, the emotions, all of it...But it's still wrong to pursue and keep the friendship going. Being friends and knowing both of you love eachother and can't ever be together is MORE painful than anything. That is why it has to end. NO good can really come of this situation UNLESS he leaves his wife for you SOON. But, even then, there is NO guarantee how your lives will mesh together...

 

Online is online, phone conversations are phone conversations...But having a 'real live' relationship is REAL. NOT fantasy! Right now things are so intense and both of you are getting all the good stuff. All the good feelings.

 

Neither of you have had to deal with daily life stresses thrown at you, sicknesses, in-laws, friends, neighbours. The test to see if this is real love or just fantasy and enjoying the crushy feelings like teens...

 

Hope this makes sense to you both.

 

Read OWL's story in the infidelity section. I'll try to find his link but BOTH of you should read it.

[Sami_D]

That was not my intention at all. I don't feel that one is necessarily worse than the other and I certainly was not saying that to "feel better about myself."

 

What I meant was... it seems that you're trying to make being the OW somehow better or less damaging or selfish or whatever it is you're trying to maintain you are. But I'm probably being over-sensitive about this as I'm definitely NOT OK about settling for the OW position and I DO think that in some twisted way that makes me selfish and home-wrecking (never mind that their M is on paper only and not likely to be revived).

 

EDITED TO add: That I just realised that your use of 'homewrecker' was actually in response to someone else's comment. SO I apologise. I should have realised that before.

 

Even so, the reason I'm sitting here typing isn't because I want to make you feel bad or argue my position. It's that I'm looking at your words and just knowing that you're kidding yourself about what you want from this.

 

Being an OW is no fun. Eventually you will either need to walk away from it (and all the history you've shared), or get him to leave his M. 99% guaranteed.

[whichwayisup]

And also remember, because of those kids, their mom WILL ALWAYS be in YOUR life FOREVER if you two end up together. YOU will have to accept that if it ever happens...

 

If he truly wants to give his marriage and family a chance, he needs to end contact with you completely. And he needs to 'come clean' with his wife so that they can BOTH put 100% of their energy into healing their family.

 

This is true. How is he supposed to find out if he loves his wife or not? To make the marriage work if his feelings, emotions and energy is being shared between TWO women.

 

He has the security of a home life with his wife, and a house. Has his family, in-laws, neighbours, friends. Then he has you. Does that really seem fair to you, to him and most of all to his wife? Both of you know this game...Know the stakes and know what is what. His wife DOES NOT. She hasn't a clue! She has NO idea that her husband is living a double life.

[zarathustra]

I'm going to let him respond to these....but I'm going to hit on this for a moment. Those children are welcome anytime, any day into any home we would ever share. As much custody as could be legally granted, they will always be welcome.

I have some remarks and IWHim, I hope you don't construe this as my being judgemental, because I'm not. If anything, I would like some good to come out of my relationship with my xMM even though it causes me daily pain.

 

You said that you welcome the kids any day into anyhome you share.

 

If IWHer does leave, then arrangement of visitation will happen right away. Most likely they will come to an agreement soon if they want what's best for the kids. However, if they continue to live with her, it is most likely that they will only see him once during the week, maybe one weekend day in the beginning and then as time passes, he will get to keep them overnight once every other weekend. This is not a question of you being welcoming or not, but this is, my dear, a reality that he really needs to think about. Also, for you to think about, how would you like it if his W says that for the first year, she does not want to have the kids meet you. Most pyschologist recommend that the children do not meet the OW or new woman until the relationship has been established for over a year to ensure that the kids don't build a bond only to lose it again.

[Art_Critic]

This is a question for Imwithher...

 

With you being 32 and having a 13 year marriage I would think that you are the wiser older one..

 

Why are you letting a 22 year old (who is just starting to learn to live her life) follow down a path that will in the end destroy her ?

 

This is not a wise thing to do.. you are using her because of her innocence.

I would think you already know that you are never going to be there for her..

Why do it then ?

[Walking away]

I hate to state the obvious, but, why even discuss the arrangements when he leaves his wife? He has stated himself and he undoubtedly will NOT leave his wife. And, thinking anything else is emotional suicide for this poor woman.

 

I have been where you are. GET OUT NOW.

[whichwayisup]

This is a question for Imwithher...

 

With you being 32 and having a 13 year marriage I would think that you are the wiser older one..

 

Why are you letting a 22 year old (who is just starting to learn to live her life) follow down a path that will in the end destroy her ?

 

This is not a wise thing to do.. you are using her because of her innocence.

I would think you already know that you are never going to be there for her..

Why do it then ?

 

I second what A_C is saying. You've had your life experiences before settling down, getting married and having kids...She hasn't yet. And, this isn't the right or "real" relationship for her to grow, become a better person and gain good experiences from that most other 20 year old's learn from. This situation WILL mess her up, confuse her and make her trust men less in general. She WILL have hang-ups, insecurities and her self esteem will go down the toilet at some point too, because chances are, she will have to deal with you choosing your wife over her. It's a s***ty place she'll be put in eventually...Though, you'll have your wife to fall back on, your children, your life will go back to the way it was...Hers won't. She doesn't have the same responsibilities you have, you can keep busy and sink yourself into your family to forget, she can't.

 

Just food for thought...

 

And I am figuring neither of you are thinking too far ahead, or outside of the box, to be objective enough to see what we're all seeing.

[zarathustra]

I second what A_C is saying. You've had your life experiences before settling down, getting married and having kids...She hasn't yet. And, this isn't the right or "real" relationship for her to grow, become a better person and gain good experiences from that most other 20 year old's learn from. This situation WILL mess her up, confuse her and make her trust men less in general. She WILL have hang-ups, insecurities and her self esteem will go down the toilet at some point too, because chances are, she will have to deal with you choosing your wife over her. It's a s***ty place she'll be put in eventually...Though, you'll have your wife to fall back on, your children, your life will go back to the way it was...Hers won't. She doesn't have the same responsibilities you have, you can keep busy and sink yourself into your family to forget, she can't.

 

Just food for thought...

 

And I am figuring neither of you are thinking too far ahead, or outside of the box, to be objective enough to see what we're all seeing.

again WWIU, you offer amazing insight. IWHer does have his family to fall back on, to keep busy and have another focus. I know that is what my xMM is doing, focusing on the kids at minimum. IWHim, what will you do if things don't work out with this man?

[ImWithHer]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who responded with such frankness and brutal honesty. Some of it is very hard to hear. Many of these things we have discussed already, but many of the perspectives are new and definately provide clarifying insight into our situation. As uncomfortable as it is for me, I will try to respond to everyone who has asked questions of me.

 

1. If you say that you would only leave your wife because there are problems and not for IWHim, is there anything in your marriage that is not good?

 

2. If your marriage is decent, why are you thinking of straying from the nest?

 

3. Could you imagine the cost if your EA and potential PA would be if your W finds out?

 

4. Do you imagine what it would be like to see your kids every other weekend and perhaps once during the week day?

 

5. How do you think you would feel about being a part time father?

 

6. If you were found out and you and your W gets divorced from it and your children one day find out about why "Mommy and Daddy" divorced and are old enough to understand what's going on, how will you deal with their resentment?

 

My marriage began way too early, and happened between two kids who had no clue what they were doing. We should have divorced early on, but at that time we were both plagued with stubborness and blind religeous conviction about divorce. Our marriage has survived, but for me, the emotion has died. I do not look forward to spending time with my wife. I value my time alone more than a married person should. We've finally got things to work where they seem good, but my heart is not there.

 

We almost divorced a few months ago, and I was excited at finally being free. However, she wanted to keep trying, and for the sake of the children I agreed. She has changed many of the things that caused me to grow calloused toward her, but I am not falling back in love. Only my obligations hold me there.

 

Being separated from my children would be very difficult for me. I don't like to think about it. I know my wife would not try to keep me from them, and I will spend as much time with them as possible. If there is eventually resentment on their part, I can only deal with that as it comes.

 

With you being 32 and having a 13 year marriage I would think that you are the wiser older one..

 

Why are you letting a 22 year old (who is just starting to learn to live her life) follow down a path that will in the end destroy her ?

 

This is not a wise thing to do.. you are using her because of her innocence.

I would think you already know that you are never going to be there for her..

Why do it then ?

 

I guess in some way I am hoping that some good can come from the relationship. I try to show her what's good about herself, to encourge her in her dreams, and give her a friend to talk to. The way she appreciates it feels good to me. Knowing that I made her smile makes my day. She tells me that is enough for her, though I know one day it won't be. When that day comes, we will both have a decision to make.

 

The advice and comments you all have posted here have given us a lot to think about. We will be discussing all of this tonight. As difficult as this was, I'm glad to know that we aren't going to be making decisions completely blind. If you have any more questions or comments, please feel free to continue posting.

[zarathustra]

Being separated from my children would be very difficult for me. I don't like to think about it. I know my wife would not try to keep me from them, and I will spend as much time with them as possible. If there is eventually resentment on their part, I can only deal with that as it comes.

 

My xMM's wife was very generous with visitation. I thought that it was great that she was able to see above the resentment and be able to focus on the best interest of the kids. Anyway, my xMM sang a very similar tune but after being away from the kids, he realized that he didn't put the effort in the marriage and regretted not doing so. I am glad to hear from IWHim that if you leave your M its not because its to be with her as that's was the only reason my xMM left his W for me (though I encouraged him to work on things at home).

 

I think that it is horrible to stay in a marriage because of obligation. My parents stayed together for us and we were able to tell that my parents really didn't like each other.

[JayKay]

Wow guys

 

This is a mess.

 

Obviously, you are both coasting on high emotion right now and I agree...it's really delicious and lovely at this point and I highly doubt I'd be able to walk away if it were me.

 

 

I think IMWH that if you felt elated at the idea of a divorce earlier on, you really need to pursue that route. What a sad thing an empty marriage is. My advice is don't 'do it for the kids'. My parents 'did it for the kids' for over 30 years and it resulted in some pretty messed up kids who all ended up in dysfunctional relationships for years afterwards.

Kids absorb the unhappiness in a household. They are like little sponges. Better to put them through some chaos and upheaval now if it means a more serene household in the long term.

 

 

As for what happens with your relationship in the future...who knows? The fact that you haven't met yet must be a little frightening. My BF and I corresponded for months online before meeting and I was nervous that the fantasy wouldn't live up to the reality.

 

Fortunately, we hit it off IRL just as we did online.

[ImWithHim]

 

I think you can afford the time right now to see how this goes.

 

Right now that is what we're thinking. Being that he is going to be gone for 6 months, and there is almost no way of meeting during that time span due to what he will be doing, we have at least 6 months to continue to explore this relationship and see where it leads. If, at the end of the 6 months, we are still together, we will take it from there one step at a time.

[ImWithHer]

I would like to add that we have talked in depth about this. We have taken everything said here to heart, and given consideration to everyone's advice. Every comment is appreciated.

 

We both know that we are going to get hurt eventually, but neither of us wants it to be now. We both feel that we have something special (obviously not unique, but special to us at least), and neither of us wants it to end at this point. We make each other happy for the time being.

 

When the point comes when we no longer make each other happy, then, of course, one way or another it will end. A big part of me wants this to work out for us. However, we realize that meeting In Real Life could change things, but that time is so far off right now, its not worth worrying about.

 

Once again thank you for all your advice. At least now we aren't going into this completely blind. That was my chief concern (well, hurting IWHim is my CHIEF concern, but this comes a close second).

 

I hope that during my absence IWHim continues to seek advice and comfort here from all of you. I know that you all truely care and will try to steer her the right way. You all have my gratitude.

[Guest]

You, LS members, are our only source for encouragement and advice. Please be gentle with us, but honest.

 

We need your guidance. Thank you for reading this.

 

I dont think anyone can give you encouragement, sorry to say. I think your MM needs to make a decision. Does he want you or his wife. You should not allow him to have both becuase it is not fair to his wife, children or you. Unfortunatly, I dont see where this could work out, unless he is willing to leave his marriage. I assume the wife does not know.

Once the wife knows, his world as he knows it will be turned pside down and reality will slap him in his face. Then, like most married men, he will choose his wife, and either dumo you or keep you as his side dish. You fulfill something his wife can not, yet SHE fulfills something you can not, or he would have left by now.

 

Do you really want to be the other woman?

[ImWithHim]

I think your MM needs to make a decision. Does he want you or his wife.

 

Right now is not the time for him to leave his marriage. He and I both recognize that.

[Blind Illusion]

I have read so many books on the subject of affairs because i guess that's how I am. I try to make sense of things that puzzle me. I also think too much at times or so I have been told.

 

Probably one of the best books I have read and would really recommend is "SECRET LOVERS; Affairs Happen..How To Cope " by Dr Luann Linquist.

There is probably a chapter in that book for everyone affected by an extramarital liason. It speaks of the different stages of an affair from the honeymoon stage to the transitional period to the maintainence stage. There is a section on the end of an affair for those that come to that point.

 

There is also an interesting section on how to have a successful affair. I use that words "interesting" & "successful" for lack of better ones. However, it is practical advice and usually that isn't as forthcoming in any literature dealing with this subject. It includes tips like not having any further expectations of this relationship and accept it as it is. Those are the types of affairs that last longer. Or to have your own independence and interests apart from the relationship.

 

Suggestions like those above and others are advanced with the idea that affairs, like it or not, do exist and here is the best way not to have so much emotional turmoil.

 

I don't want to sound like I am doing a book review though...lol. I could tell you to quit now and avoid any anguish but I am a realist. You aren't going to do that any more than I would have listened. Because to avoid the pain which seems remote now, one is sacrificing an awful lot of smiles, and good feeliings of love, friendship and contentment. How do you balance that out? You can't. So, you don't.

 

I wish you all the best and I really do think that this was a great thing that the two of you did by posting this together.

[Art_Critic]

Right now is not the time for him to leave his marriage. He and I both recognize that.

 

Being someone that has been married before I find fault with that logic..

 

If he knows he no longer wants to be married then the ONLY avenue he should go is divorce. and quickly..

 

I'm sorry but your MM seems to be a cake eater..

Do a search on this type of cheater.

 

I do think his honesty when answering the questions is admirable but because he is honest to us shows us that he is being dishonest to his wife.

 

Do you really want a man that you can never have ?

 

Imwithhim,

I noticed that you never seem to answer the question.. you seem to skirt around them.. your last post never addresses the post instead you mention how it isn't time for him to leave his marriage..

 

You seem to only be focusing on HIM..

What about your needs ?

 

You need to start looking at things in the light of yourself.. see... he will only consider himself when making decisions.. hence the affair..

 

Start looking out for number one.. you are too young to have to go thru the pain and wreakage that is about to happen to you..

 

I do wish you both the best.. but until he decides to stop being a cake eater you are in for a rollercoater ride of emotions and manipulations

[ImWithHim]

If he knows he no longer wants to be married then the ONLY avenue he should go is divorce. and quickly..

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that. Perhaps you may think of me as naive, but the reality of it is is that he is not sure he doesn't want to be married anymore. At least, that is how I understand it.

 

 

Do you really want a man that you can never have ?

At this point in time, I still have hope that we have a chance.

 

 

Imwithhim,

I noticed that you never seem to answer the question.. you seem to skirt around them.. your last post never addresses the post instead you mention how it isn't time for him to leave his marriage..

I'm not quite sure how I skirted around the issue. Out of all the posts, that one I least identified with and my response was intended to convey the fact that this is not a post asking "when will he leave her?" We are not at that point. We may never be.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

You seem to only be focusing on HIM..

What about your needs ?

 

You need to start looking at things in the light of yourself.. see... he will only consider himself when making decisions.. hence the affair..

 

Start looking out for number one.. you are too young to have to go thru the pain and wreakage that is about to happen to you..

 

 

 

Wow! That's exactly what I meant to say when I was referring to her young age. She needs to do just this... without any help from him.

 

Being an OW myself, I understand the excuses that we go through. However, I really want IAMWITHHER to really, really think about leaving his marriage. It should not be done in a haste, like some posters advocate here. However, IAMWITHHER needs to put an honest effort in salvaging the marriage if he doesn't want to proceed with divorce right away. That means stoppiing all contact with IAMWITHHIM... and I know that is out of the question right now.

 

So admit it, IAMWITHHER is a cake eater. IAMWITHHIM is too young to see any different. I didn't mean to put labels on you guys, but I think that an important step in healing yourself and understanding your situation is knowing what roles you are playing in this affair. I was just pointing it out... don't get offended. As I said, I have been in a *brief* affair.

 

IAMWITHHIM, I sincerely hope that you'd read Art Critic's post again. Very sage words, indeed.