Where do we go from here?

[whichwayisup]

Sadly, as much as we give our thoughts and advice, I think both of them are going to let things play out. People unforunately have to make their own mistakes before learning. Actually have to GO through it to understand and then say, "Boy, I regret that...I wish I'd listened and not gotten myself in so deep..." Neither of them are strong enough nor do they want to, walk away from this situation. They're BOTH addicted to the feelings they're giving eachother. It's controlling them, instead of them controlling IT.

 

Why not just stick pins in your eyes? Cuz that would be stupid, right? Well, just because something FEELS good doesn't mean that you have to give in to it...

[Sami_D]

um. very hard to work with this site sometimes :s

[Art_Critic]

I think both of them are going to let things play out. People unforunately have to make their own mistakes before learning.

 

so true...

If there is any hope for this not to play out is with him not her..

 

He is in control of her at this stage.. but he seems like the kind of guy that has a conscience so maybe that will win out in the end and he will let her go to live a life free of him..

[Sami_D]

he seems like the kind of guy that has a conscience

 

Not seen any evidence of that so far...

[Art_Critic]

Not seen any evidence of that so far...

 

To be fair to him I do.. go back and reread his posts even on the other thread where they came out about being ow/mm.

 

He hasn't only posted words of selfish behavior..

[zarathustra]

Mr. Clown, you sound like one fair guy. I too don't think that IWHer is 'selfish', but misguided.

[Sami_D]

To be fair to him I do.. go back and reread his posts even on the other thread where they came out about being ow/mm.

 

He hasn't only posted words of selfish behavior..

 

Sorry, but what other thread? I don't often venture out of the OM/OW forum for being beaten over the head for being an OW.

 

I've seen plenty on this thread of him being ONLY concerned with himself... yeah, ok, there is some nod to 'the pain she may suffer'... that isn't an example of not being selfish! That's an example of knowing what you might put someone else through.

[movinon05]

You know Garth Brooks' song "The Dance".?

 

And now, I'm glad I didn't know

the way it all would end, the way it all would go.

Our lives are better left to chance,

I could've missed the pain,

But I'd have had to miss the dance.

 

Everytime I hear that I get angry. I can honestly say I wish I had known how it was going to go. I would have definitely missed THAT dance! The pain was NOT worth it and the feelings I am left with for the rest of my life. Sometimes it just feels like the knife keeps getting twisted over and over. That is why I wish people would just listen to those who know. It is pure anguish in the end. The only good thing that happened was to get me out of a bad marriage. But I probably would have done that in time anyway.

[EnigmaXOXO]

If you're "in it" for the children … then you're IN it for the children. Not half-way in or half-way out.

 

And never assume that children are so young and naïve that it's okay to lye and pull the wool over their eye's … cause they'll never find out the truth about what you did.

 

Never, ever underestimate how tragically divorce and infidelity effects children … well into their adulthood … and how everything a parent does today shapes and molds the kind of individuals they will grow into tomorrow.

 

And worst of all, don't ever discount the burden of responsibility (or blame) that child will carry upon their own shoulder's when a parent tells them: "I stayed in a miserable relationship because of you" … OR … worse yet, "I cheated on your mother and hurt her because I couldn't bare to relinquish possession of you."

 

Children are fooled, defrauded and disappointed every day by hypocrites trying to pose as as role models and heros. It's bad enough that the world outside is full of screwed up adults who are already influencing your children. But when the only two people a child has ever counted on for stability, safety and guidance let's them down … there is no longer a single place in the whole world that they'll ever feel "safe" in again. And later, they'll begin to act out … both in their personal lives and in their own relationships. Just as ImWithHer and ImWithHim are doing right now.

 

I feel several things: 1) guilty as hell that my parents suffered because of me, 2) that I never knew what a healthy relationship was because they were not good role models, and 3) because I didn't know what a healthy relationship is, I'm not sure how to be in a healthy relationship.

 

There you go.

 

Dysfunction … the gift that keeps giving, eh?

[Sami_D]

Actually, A_C... you're ON the thread on which they 'came out'....?

[erika2610]

Actually, A_C... you're ON the thread on which they 'came out'....?

 

No, they came out in another thread, in the Personal Rants section..

[Art_Critic]

Sorry, but what other thread? I don't often venture out of the OM/OW forum for being beaten over the head for being an OW.

 

I've seen plenty on this thread of him being ONLY concerned with himself... yeah, ok, there is some nod to 'the pain she may suffer'... that isn't an example of not being selfish! That's an example of knowing what you might put someone else through.

 

All the posts on LS regarding OW/MM are either an OW or a MM posted all by themselves.. I can't remember a thread where both parties have posted their feelings on the same thread..

 

This is a chance to see both sides at the same time..

Why beat either party up because he is a MM ..

 

In order to help each of them we have to tell the truth to each of them....

 

All of my posts have been how I perceive the issue and I'm not trying to be biased at all.

I'm trying to call 'em the way I see 'em

[Sami_D]

No, they came out in another thread, in the Personal Rants section..

 

Ah, right. Not read that.

[Sami_D]

All the posts on LS regarding OW/MM are either an OW or a MM posted all by themselves.. I can't remember a thread where both parties have posted their feelings on the same thread..

 

This is a chance to see both sides at the same time..

Why beat either party up because he is a MM ..

 

In order to help each of them we have to tell the truth to each of them....

 

All of my posts have been how I perceive the issue and I'm not trying to be biased at all.

I'm trying to call 'em the way I see 'em

 

Hmm... well I'm not beating this person up because he's a MM my boyfriend ... the man I hope to spend the rest of my life with, is (currently) a MM. I don't have a problem with MM per se. More than anyone else in this forum I would be probably the only one who would have a positive view of 'a MM'.

 

So... not sure what your post is meant to mean. But if you're trying to say I don't see his POV because he's a MM, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Art_Critic]

But if you're trying to say I don't see his POV because he's a MM, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

I haven't tried to put you into a defensive mode.. sorry.. that is your own doing..

 

I'm was mearly trying to say earlier that I believe he is sincere.

It isn't just his words that tell me that.. you can read between the lines..

 

I also was saying that this thread is unique because both parties are posting on it.

 

I do still stand behind all of my posts and believe the words I have posted to them.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Advice your online Romeo gave to another individual involved in a relationship with a married person.

 

Hmmm... From what I've read, my best advice is DON'T contact her. The relationship sounds like it was dysfunctional from the start. All the reasons you posted are good reasons why this is a Bad Idea. To me it sounds like she's on a sinking ship, and if you keep trying to hook up with her, she's gonna pull you down with her. It will probably hurt to keep away if you really love her like that, but sometimes you just gotta be smart.

 

Interesting.

[Sami_D]

I haven't tried to put you into a defensive mode.. sorry.. that is your own doing..

 

I'm was mearly trying to say earlier that I believe he is sincere.

It isn't just his words that tell me that.. you can read between the lines..

 

I also was saying that this thread is unique because both parties are posting on it.

 

I do still stand behind all of my posts and believe the words I have posted to them.

 

Well that's nice...

 

Never thought I'd hear so much good about MM here on OW forum.

 

Nice to hear. Very appropriate for the stage I'm at in my R with MM

 

Nice to hear you come round to affairs too A-C

[Art_Critic]

Nice to hear you come round to affairs too A-C

 

Even though I have said I thought he was sincere I still don't believe that him having an affair is okay..and me coming around to them only goes as far as I'm trying to help both Imwithhim and Imwithher.

 

if you go back and read my posts I still do believe he is a cakeman and that is is doing damage to his marriage and kids.

 

Like I said I call 'em the way I see them.

[Sami_D]

I haven't tried to put you into a defensive mode.. sorry.. that is your own doing..

 

If you looked to find someone LESS defensive than me on these boards tonight, I doubt you'd find them.

 

 

MM is telling his W Monday that his M is over.

[Sami_D]

I still do believe he is a cakeman and that is is doing damage to his marriage and kids.

 

Hmm well, me too

[ImWithHim]

I read some of these replies this morning and had hoped that giving myself some time to think them over, and reread them, would help me explain what I'm feeling right now.

 

Unfortunately, it hasn't. There are too many posts with bits and pieces of questions and comments to reply to, so I'll try my best to hit some of them as memory serves.

 

Someone said earlier he is being selfish. I hardly consider him selfish for taking so much time out of his day to ask how MY day has been, comfort me when I'm hurt or upset by someone, and reassure me that my feelings do matter and that knowing what the likely outcome will be, he will understand if I want to back off. I have read so many threads here where the MM 'pursues' the OW relentlessly. We take care of eachother, we 'pursue' eachother. This is not a one sided relationship. In fact, I initiated the contact that first night (though I did not know he was married at this point in time). He is not selfish. I realize that many of you have been through bad times with MM, but the fact of the matter is that both of us are on this board and I don't at all appreciate the underhanded (and at times, especially by Sami D) snide remarks regarding his morality and fathering abilities. Frankly, he may put up with it but I'm certainly not going to. We came here seeking advice because the vast majority of you seem to be understanding and interested in helping people. WWIU, art, blind illusion, and others that I do not know off the top of my head right now have been extremely helpful in their advice. We have been discussing each and every reply at length in an effort to come to terms with what we are feeling and trying to determine what to do about it.

 

We can not just walk away from eachother. I know that you may think "you will see..." and I agree, we very well may regret this in the future! But something that was raised in our conversation last night really made sense to us. Those that are on this section, for the most part, are those that have had failed relationships resulting from a MM/OW. Those that meet someone, fall in love, and leave their SO, likely do not seek out an internet forum for guidance because it worked out. Who's to say we don't fall into that category? The difference is we came here together, in advance to learn about what we are doing so as to go into this as open mindly as possible.

 

This has not been easy on us either. As I said before, we have read and reread each and every one of the responses. We are extremly grateful for the guidance (however hard it may be to hear at times) that *everyone* offers. I hope the guiding posts continue to come so as to not make me regret posting about this.

 

In response to someone who asked earlier why I posted when we were not taking the advice...I really don't know what to tell you because I don't have much of an answer for that myself. I did not post for advice, perse, I posted so this would be "out" and we could begin to talk freely about it. We enjoy the forum and have gathered a lot of information here, and we hoped that some would have words of wisdom for us.

[ImWithHim]

Advice your online Romeo gave to another individual involved in a relationship with a married person.

 

 

 

Interesting.

 

 

Not really. Our relationship was never dysfunctional. I don't know the thread in question (a link would be nice), but if there were reasons to cause problems, then his advice is right on. The fact that another relationship was dysfunctional does not make ours the same.

[grateful]

In response to someone who asked earlier why I posted when we were not taking the advice...I really don't know what to tell you because I don't have much of an answer for that myself. I did not post for advice, perse, I posted so this would be "out" and we could begin to talk freely about it. We enjoy the forum and have gathered a lot of information here, and we hoped that some would have words of wisdom for us.

 

that was my question... here it is again

What are you two really looking for in this thread? You say "guidance" but you dispute all warnings and advice, much of it coming from current and former OW who want you to be aware of the pain you are hurtling towards.

 

 

 

We need your guidance. Thank you for reading this.

 

I asked because despite the fact that your first post asked for guidance, your reactions to everyone's advice were pretty defensive. It seemed to me you were looking for acceptance rather than guidance. Acceptance is something you have to find in yourself. And the rationalizations that you are using to make this OK are just going to keep you farther and farther away from acceptance. One rationalization for instance: the idea that you can disregard the guidance you've asked for because most people in an OW/OM forum have experienced failed relationships with MM/MW.

 

Good luck to you - you are definitely going to need it.

[ImWithHim]

I asked because despite the fact that your first post asked for guidance, your reactions to everyone's advice were pretty defensive.

 

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Initially we responded to all the questions asked of us as openly as we possibly could. We were not at all defensive. People asked, we answered. I guess I don't see how that is defensive?

 

I suspect that many thought their words of warning would cause us to just step back and tell eachother it wasn't worth it, WE weren't worth it. If that were the case and we were swayed that easily, we wouldn't have much of a relationship now would we?

 

Guidance and advice, IMHO, are two very different things. Advise is, "Here's our problem, please let us know the steps to fix it." Guidance is, "Here's our problem, please help us cope with what we are going though." That, I suppose, it more what I was looking for. You don't have to agree with something to help someone through it.

[Sami_D]

What happened to 'all comments welcome, good or bad, supportive or not'... lol.

 

You're not reading or listening to anything. Your choice. Personally, I think attacking people who took the time to try to warn you off something they have some knowledge of to be extremely childish and your criticism of me to be ungrateful and silly.

 

No doubt you will have another interpretation of my words, wise as you are. That's how it goes, most of the time. We all need to live our own disasters.