I don't believe in her, or have faith anymore

[AManWithTroubles]

Well, back around the end of February, my wife told me that she wasn't in love with me anymore. Over a couple days following, I found out that she wanted a separation and didn't even want to try marriage counseling. Then, after this, I found an email to her friend, which made me think that she was having an affair, probably just emotional, but it was there. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t85041/ There's a link to what that was about.

 

So she tells me that she hadn't loved me for about the past 5 years. We have been married 10, and have 3 children. Yet, over the past 5 years, she has said I love you. Even on Valentine's day, I got a card that repeated I love you about 3 times in a row. Then she tells me that she hasn't loved me. Then I find out that she is at least thinking about what she missed out on with other guys.

 

Well, we went through counseling, mainly because her mother told her to. Also, at this time, I am going through probably the most important few months of our lives, which could decide the outcome of the rest of our life, financially. So, she puts me through this stress at a horrible time. I end up blaming myself for everything. She let me. I took the entire blame, since she was the one who "fell out of love". I beat myself up emotionally, I kept crying, apologizing, and hating myself. I felt like the biggest loser in history, for losing the woman that I love, and making her suffer with me for the past five years. She allowed me to take the blame, not taking enough on for herself, she was eating it up. It appeared as if she was eating up the power trip, belittling me for everything she didn't like about me.

 

Well, things went on in counseling, at home, etc. I ended up agreeing with her, since I took on all the blame. I told her to go through with the separation and divorce, because I didn't even deserve her. I told her to do it for herself, not for me, but for her. It got to the point where I even printed out some separation papers, so that we could begin to decide who gets what, and plan ahead for when we got lawyers, or whatever. A few days later, she asks me to renew our vows. WTF???!!! Of course, I was originally happy, seeing that my wife came around. So, I agreed, and became very happy.

 

Now, I have thought over things, and realized that I wasn't so horrible. If she didn't love me for the past five years, then it's her fault, her problem. Or was she only going through a tough patch recently, and her reflections were not as bad as she was making them out to be? I was there, I tried to do everything, she was the one who kept pushing me away over the past five years. There were so many times where she just wanted to be alone, and this was after I hadn't seen her in quite a bit. I wasn't lazy, I tried everything. There were times when I picked up huge chunks of the household chores, I tried flowers on random days, I tried it all. I tried to talk to her, but she wouldn't want it. I wasn't as bad as she wanted me to paint myself out to be.

 

Now, she wants to renew the vows. Was it because she fears splitting everything up? Did all of the paperwork scare her? Does she fear trying to live on her own? She did tell the counselor that the paperwork woke her up. But how? Did it really make her fall back in love with me?

 

When will she try to sabotage my life again? When will she say she doesn't love me anymore, and she hasn't in a long time? Will she question what she missed out on everytime another man talks to her for an extended period of time? Did she really not love me for the past five years? Or did she just not love me during the past couple months? Does she love me now? How do I know what to think, what to believe?

 

So the point is, I don't believe. I don't have faith. I don't believe in her. I don't have faith in her. I don't know what to do. I'm not sure if I want to go through with the renewing of the vows, because I can't do that with someone I don't believe in. Of course, I'll remain married until things go really wrong. But rededicating myself in a significant manner? Why? So that I can fall hard again? I can't take another fall. I'm sitting here remaining skeptical about this. But I can't tell if she is truthful, faithful, honest or sincere. I don't even trust her at work anymore with this kid she works with. Why does she leave earlier every day to work? And beyond the kid, how can I redeclare my love to someone who allowed me to hurt myself so much in such an important time of my life.

 

I'm just not sure if I love her enough now. She chewed up my love and dedication to her and spit it in my face, now I hate her for that. Sorry for the long post, but I am just so lost right now. I need some input, if anyone wants to take the time to read this. I hope this is the right section, also.

[whichwayisup]

I think you have every right to feel the way you do. She DID certainly come around really fast when she saw the papers. Maybe that was the wake-up call that was needed! She realized what she was about to lose and saw that the other man was a distraction, an ego feed, NOT real love.

 

I say continue with counselling. Even try some one on one therapy for yourself because you do have alot going on inside your head.

 

Another thing is, I think you need to tell her some of what you've said here. Mostly about how what she's done has made you feel. That she needs to gain your trust and respect again. If you can, talk to the Kid and tell him to backoff.

 

Take a long weekend and go away together just so you two can be alone, away from it all. A different atmosphere could help.

 

Hang in there.

[catgirl1927]

She put you through all the agony of letting go of your marriage and now she wants to backtrack? Uh, I think not. You are absolutely justified in feeling the way you do.

[carmaenforcer]

AManWithTroubles, I have experience in this exact type of situation and have had to deal with the same feeling that you seem to be dealing with.

 

My ex-wife left me at a delicate time in my life (Our first daughter just died of brain cancer) and her leaving ran me into the ground. Understandably, she was dealing with the same loss and so could be excused for her actions. I could not get over what she did and so when she asked me back a year later I told her no. Like you, I could not trust her not to do the same thing again. You see, she had ended up with some guy from work after we separated and I couldn't help but think that something might have been going on before everything went to s*** because her going to and leaving work habits changed right before we broke up too.

Another time, this time with my most current ex, the woman just before my new Wife. I dealt with the, "I don't love you anymore" thing. We had been together 9 years at the time and she had been carrying on an emotional affair with a guy from a forum she belonged to. The separation didn't last but three weeks and when she asked me back I accepted but I was never the same again. No trust, full of anger and resentment, relationship brain dead basically. Put on life support out of fear of being alone and lingering love I had for her that wasn't quite dead yet but mortally wounded. I ended up leaving her and getting together with my Wife now, I also met her at work, oops.

I'm not say that you do the same thing to her she did to you, but if you did she will have had it coming to her. I'm also not saying that you should never forgive, I've decided to forgive my Wife for some s*** she put me through, but if you want to hold it over her head until you are good and ready and use this experience to dictate how you treat her from now on, I say she has it coming.

 

You know that if you postpone the renewing of your vows thing she will punish you, right? I might just do it out of fear, like I did when I got back with my ex no questions asked after she left me for three weeks to sew her wild outs on line, but I have learned since then and gotten stronger. Now I say straight up tell her how what she did was wrong and how it has affected you feeling toward her. How you, unlike her, did take your original vows seriously and do take the renewing of them just as seriously and so want to wait for her to prove her commitment to your relationship before you do it again.

I know that you are not sure if you love her anymore but unlike women men can't get away with just saying that without being made to pay for it. Instead carefully work on bringing her down from her perch by being loving, getting her to like that love, while steadily distancing yourself emotionally, not enough so that she sees it right away but just enough so that she feels it, like a bad after taste.

If you do it too fast she will use her newly acquired strength that she got from punking you out to finish you off. You need to wait until she is in a place where your love and relationship means something to her, I mean really means something to her not this trying to stick a flag on top of the hill she just conquered thing she's trying to do by getting you to marry her, again. When this time comes, and if you are patient and play your cards right it will come, then you can retake control of this relationship and make her work a little harder to keep it this time.

 

Don't feel bad about manipulating, they do it all the time. It's a little harder for us because they generally consider themselves the prize but it can be done, the trick is to give them what they want just enough to get them to like it and then take it away.

[AManWithTroubles]

Thanks, carmaenforcer. I had some similar plans. Not quite like that, as a revenge, but I do feel like distancing myself. I need to do it for me, to see what I want. I feel like I tried so hard to keep us together, when all she wanted to do was run. I didn't want to be dumped. I thought that I loved her, so I wanted to keep her.

 

Now, she wants it back, or says so, but I'm just not so sure. Maybe I did fear the rejection. Maybe I can't find myself to trust her the same way again. I feel like I need to put some space between us, to see if she is really what I want. I always thought that she was, but why should I be with someone who can so easily put me through all of that, then think that she can easily come out of it without a hitch in the end? It shouldn't be that easy for her. It wasn't easy for me to say, "Let's stay married." Matter of fact, when we were originally engaged, she tried to call of the marriage. When I began to accept that, she came crawling back, asking to go on with it. Why should I keep putting myself through this? When will it happen again? I'm not a jerk or anything, I'm a nice guy. I'm not perfect, but who the heck is? I accept and acknowledge my shortcomings, and work on them.

 

Also, to whichwayisup. Well, we were supposed to go away, the time of Memorial Day weekend. We had someone willing to watch the kids and all, her mother. Now, she doesn't want to go away until we get a chance at our honeymoon, after the renewal of the vows. I have, in passing, told her that she needs to clear some things up with me before I go through with the vows. I don't know if she took me seriously or not, because at her first proposal, I was so happy that she was willing to accept our marriage again, that I told her, yes, most definitely, let's do it. But now I have thought about it, and I am having second thoughts. Is she just trying to make up for something with a ritual, instead of working on herself?

[carmaenforcer]

Is she just trying to make up for something with a ritual, instead of working on herself?

 

Promising forever and spitting out vows seems to be easy enough for her, it's the actually following through with her promises that she has a problem with.

Yeah, be good to yourself, lookout for #1 for once, but if you think that you can fix things for good, don't loose sight of that and risk becoming the male version of her. I am not one to say, do it for the kids but relationships all go through growing pains in trying to last forever and something like this can make your relationship stronger, if you deal with it right.

I would say don't confront the other guy, it might help to boost his ego to know how he has affected you and her and if he wasn't aware of how he was affecting her and your relationship, you bringing it up might just start something that wasn't even there to begin with. Besides, the other guy is not the problem, your woman is, because without her participation or pandering the other guys are powerless. This guy is just a tool used by your woman, if it wasn't him it would have been another, and after him there still might be another and another. There will always be someone to help break up your relationship, it's up to your SO to tell them to back the ufck off. Set some rules for her, give yourself some insurance, back up plans in case she doesn't straighten up, but don't just play the back and forth hurt game, no one win that game in the end. Just teach her a lesson and let her prove herself. Just my advice/opinion, you know what's best for you. Good luck.

[whichwayisup]

Also, to whichwayisup. Well, we were supposed to go away, the time of Memorial Day weekend. We had someone willing to watch the kids and all, her mother. Now, she doesn't want to go away until we get a chance at our honeymoon, after the renewal of the vows. I have, in passing, told her that she needs to clear some things up with me before I go through with the vows. I don't know if she took me seriously or not, because at her first proposal, I was so happy that she was willing to accept our marriage again, that I told her, yes, most definitely, let's do it. But now I have thought about it, and I am having second thoughts. Is she just trying to make up for something with a ritual, instead of working on herself?

 

I think you need to tell her how you feel. Renewing the vows IS a great idea, but only if she really feels that she can live up to the vows and promises. She owes you that time, to make sure she makes YOU feel secure enough to do that walk down the aisle again. Hopefully she feels as strongly about it and this isn't a reaction to keep things as they are now. Safe and secure so then she can continue pursuing someone else's affection.

 

Make her take you seriously. Make her understand why you both need the time to sort through the issues.

[quankanne]

Matter of fact, when we were originally engaged, she tried to call of the marriage. When I began to accept that, she came crawling back, asking to go on with it. … Well, we were supposed to go away, the time of Memorial Day weekend. We had someone willing to watch the kids and all, her mother. Now, she doesn't want to go away until we get a chance at our honeymoon, after the renewal of the vows. … Is she just trying to make up for something with a ritual, instead of working on herself?

 

sounds like she's got your number, honey. That she can yank your chain, and you – being a good man – are going to be loving and forgiving, because that's how a good man is. I daresay she's going to be doing this over and over throughout the course of your relationship, the being with you and then saying she wants out of the relationship only to suddenly want you back when she realizes that you're willing to walk away if this is what she wants ...

 

continue with the counselling, is my suggestion, because now that you've seen the situation in a whole new light, you're prolly going to be feeling some things that are potentially explosive if you don't have the tools to deal with them. As bad as this sounds for a marriage, keep her at a certain distance until she starts taking responsibility for her feelings and her behavior. If someone is unhappy, there might be outside forces, true, but at some point we become responsible for what we feel. A healthy relationship takes both parties to be responsible for making it work, not putting all the burden on one when the other "feels" unhappy.

 

as for the repeating of vows ... ugh, that's a pretty serious gesture to someone who believes in them. My gut tells me it's a ploy to keep you emotionally where she wants you so she can shxt on you whenever she wants in the future. She has no respect for this kind of relationship, is my thought, so you really need to carefully consider whether you want to play her game. You sound like a really decent man, one who deserves a truly decent woman at your side.

[Mz. Pixie]

I agree that she certainly did wake up quickly when she saw the paperwork.

 

How soon did she make the announcement of renewing the vows? Did she give you any type of apologies about her actions or say that she'd been a fool and that she'd do anything to repair the marriage or did she blow off her earlier actions?? This is big. Judge her by her actions, not what she says.

 

Often times during an affair- emotional or otherwise- you're living in sort of an addiction. The fog they call it. You're not thinking as yourself, and you're really only caring about getting what you want- not thinking of your partner. Also, wayward spouses will at times- according to what I've read- rewrite their past and make their partners into being worse than they actually are- that is the only way they can justify the affair in their minds. I also know because I've done it.

 

There probably were things you could have done differently to meet her needs during the marriage, but the affair was her choice. Not yours. She needs to own up to her mistake and go about fixing the situation.

 

Does she seem like she's sorry? IMO she should be begging you to stay with her, saying she's sorry for hurting you, and her actions should match that. Is she accepting responsibility??

 

You need to tell her what you've told us here. I would think long and hard before I renewed the vows at this time. Have you visited marriagebuilders.com?? It's a great site for people who are going through exactly what you are. There is alot of good information there for you to read. They say it takes about two years to fully recover from an affair and I don't believe your wife has recovered or that she has allowed you to do so in a matter of months.

 

Check out the website if you've not already been there.

[AManWithTroubles]

You know what Mz Pixie. I don't think she has apologized. I overlooked all of that, since I made myself out to be the bad guy. I figured that since I "won" her back, then that's all that I needed. I didn't show her that there are any consequences for her actions. She learns nothing. She probably now thinks that she can do what she wants and get away with it. I doubt that she is thinking of things to do, but subconsciously, the idea must be there.

 

She went straight from questioning our whole relationship and her love for me to asking me to renew the vows. Nothing inbetween. It was maybe two days after I showed her the separation papers. Now she acts like we are young lovers, to a degree that we are allowed. We do have children and busy lives. I suppose I just accepted that as proof that she is turning around. Now, however, I have thought about the past couple months, and the hell she put me through. How does she get to just get away with that, and pretend that everything is fine and dandy, just because she says she's happy now. I guess my life and our relationship rests on her moodswings. I'm not satisfied with such a life.

 

I also suppose, as quankanne said, I sometimes think that I deserve someone who will treat me better. Someone who will love me, someone who won't go questioning our relationship every few years or so. I know there will be problems in every relationship, but I don't think every relationship goes to this point. I've even had people tell me that I deserve someone better, someone who loves me the way I love them. Yet I keep on trying with her. I've had girls tell me, even without me asking for it, that they would even love to have me. My wife tells me that all the ladies she works with would pay good money if I were auctioned off at her place of work. And now I am in contact with many different females from all walks of life and all over the world. Many interesting ones. I feel like a window is closing, and right now, I feel like I should be able to test the waters, because I already know that I don't like what I get with my wife. I like her actions right now, but I'm afraid that she is only trying to throw a band-aid on a broken arm. I almost want to have my own affair, but I'm too good of a guy to go and do that. Besides, I don't know how to go about doing such a thing. I've been tied down so long.

 

I know, maybe these thoughts are wrong, but my wife has been putting me through hell. Even before this. I remember one day, after I had been away for a few days (I am no longer gone overnight now) that I was trying to hang out with her, just sit in the living room and talk to her. She said something to the effect that she needs some "me time". Huh? So, I barely did anything with her all weekend, she kept blowing me off, and then left again for the next few days, to go be alone. She even once told me that I wasn't "manly enough" for her anymore. I was in the military when we met, now I have a sit down job at a desk on a computer. She denies having ever said this, but I am quite sure that I did not make this up in my head. I have been quite lonely for the longest time, while she kept rejecting me. Now after taking me to the lowest point of our relationship, where she threatened separation without even the slightest hint of counseling, that I should just take her back, because she wants me now. Am I just a convenience?

 

I think I'm about to go type up some things that I would like for her to address, before I am ready to move on with her. When I tell her in person, she just blows it off, and says, "What do you want me to do?" I don't know what I want her to do, but she has to do something. Maybe if it's typed out, then she has a checklist, and might be more able to address the issues. Sorry for the long post again, I just have so much on my plate right now. I don't think I'm going to ask a girl out or even talk to them for any lengthy periods of time, especially about anything serious. They're just random thoughts.

[whichwayisup]

Until she ADMITS her mistakes, her opening up to another man and letting her feelings for him takeover and ruin what she SHOULD have felt for you, then hold off on the vows. You need answers from her and she needs to take responsibility for actions, and see what consquences her actions have done as well. She HAS to see the damage, the hurt, the mistrust and the insecurities she has brought out in you.

 

I think that's a great idea to write out what needs to be discussed so nothing is missed.

 

Keep venting and don't appologize for the long posts! If it helps you feel better, then type away!

 

Good luck and give us an update soon.

[quankanne]

I think the written word is a very, very powerful tool because the reader is forced to give undivided attention to what is being said. Maybe she'll get that her selfish actions are hurting the marriage everytime she pulls this.

 

I also suppose, as quankanne said, I sometimes think that I deserve someone who will treat me better. Someone who will love me, someone who won't go questioning our relationship every few years or so. I know there will be problems in every relationship, but I don't think every relationship goes to this point.

 

every relationship – even the solid ones – go through a cycle where one person feels he/she is being taken advantage of by his/her mate. it's normal to question, but the questioning ideally leads to self-revelation and a means of resolving those feelings. Someone in a way earlier post talked about how Marriage Builders helped them shift from blaming her spouse to finding ways to adjust the way she viewed certain problems with their relationship, and how that helped her be more content with her husband. This is what self-revelation does: it gives you tools to better deal with the situation. Ideally, that is.

 

I feel like a window is closing, and right now, I feel like I should be able to test the waters, because I already know that I don't like what I get with my wife. I like her actions right now, but I'm afraid that she is only trying to throw a band-aid on a broken arm. I almost want to have my own affair, but I'm too good of a guy to go and do that. Besides, I don't know how to go about doing such a thing. I've been tied down so long.

 

acting out is never in your best interest because you only end up hurting yourself, and it's usually done out of stupidity (this isn't meant to be mean, but spoken by someone who's cut off her nose to spite her face). If anything, you want and need to resolve what is going on in your marriage before hanging it up and starting anew. Stepping out on your wife only muddies the waters, and you need to see clearly right now. Besides, do you really want to be that kind of person – could you live with yourself for doing what she did? I get the feeling that deep down, you couldn't, because you're not cut from that cloth. And because you understand the answer doesn't lay in cheating on her.

[Alexandra]

So far, you got some of the best advice I read on this site lately, so most of what I say will be redundant.

 

That you feel the way you do -and I've read through the other thread as well- is quite common and natural, it seems you've gone through all of the phases of grief from the beginning when you seemed almost half in denial that something was amiss to going increasingly scared of losing her, to now being mad to the point that you regret not getting a chance at maybe having someone else. They're all natural and I presume you already knew that from counseling if it's any good. You should also know sometime soon you'll start healing, the rage gone, you'll start accepting, forgetting and maybe understanding too.

 

I also strongly agree with whichwayisup on you getting therapy or coaching on your own. You are dealing with a lot of emotion -some of which appears to have bottled up during the years- and I am not sure turning to her to help understand and settle these feelings is a good idea at this point NOT because she wouldn't be able to, over normal circumstances, but because things are as they are now.

 

On the most recent topic on your mind which I presume could be summed up to "Should I go through with the marriage vows and act like everything's fine when all I can think of is that I may well not be in love with her anymore and would like an affair?" the short answer would be "Well yes, if you can and if you know you love her and want to be with her." Is it honest? Not entirely. It's diplomatic, it's relationship work. Doing that though, would imply you being able to determine if you can see yourself growing old with her (which I have read you stating many times before you were mad and even to a degree now, that you are) as well as much work on both yourself and the right tools to gain back open communication with her.

 

Putting things on paper will help indeed. I'm not sure if you intend to let her read as well or use it as a modality to organize your thoughts. If it's the latter that's a brilliant idea, if it's the latter don't expect miracles. That she now doesn't respond as openly as you hope for is to be expected, she may have seemed like she threw it all on you but I am sure at least subconsciently she knows she's hurt you and almost destroyed your marriage and is feeling guilty.

 

I'd also advise against lending too much of an ear to friends saying you deserve better at this point. They say that because they don't want to see you hurt and because yes, you deserve better than what she gave you not than what she is, or could give you necessarily. That's another question to explore with your therapist when you get one (along with many others) and an important one at that. Do you love her? Beyond the pain and the circumstances. If so why?

 

Eventually, I think, you'll get over the rage and when you do you'll be better equipped to remember you love her -if that's the case- and think of her as your best friend again, hence able to put yourself in her shoes too and help her get in yours.

 

Looking forward to reading from you in that phase too.

[AManWithTroubles]

Yes, Alexandra. I do love her. Very much. But I have lost a bit of that lately, and a ton of trust. After being married ten years, should I feel uncomfortable with my wife when I want to become physically intimate with her? Why do I right now? I have this weird feeling, it's hard to explain. And then I'm nervous about her, and the next time she wants to just end it all, or whatever she has up her sleeve for next time. I love her, which makes it so tough. Otherwise, if I didn't, then I wouldn't care about her wanting to run off, or whatever else it is that she wants to do. I would just be off doing my own thing. But the fact is, I wanted to be with her forever, and I think I still do. But I don't want to put up with the crap. And I want to know that she wants the same thing, or if she is just afraid of living on her own. I don't want to feel like I frightened her into staying with me, having her only realize she couldn't financially support herself. I want to know that I am the one for her, and that she wants to work very hard on making it last forever.

 

And in the end, I want to feel more comfortable with her. Seriously. It's ridiculous. I tried to have sex with her last night, but I just didn't feel right. I dont know if it was nerves, fear of rejection or what. I just didn't feel like the connection was there. There's a short in the wires somewhere. Otherwise, I think we are connecting, we are being more open, talking, hugging, etc. That's why I say we are like a young couple, but without the sex part. Not that this is all about sex, but I would still use that as a gauge of the highest level of comfort between two people. And if I don't feel comfortable having sex with her, then something must be missing still. Sorry, I suppose that is a separate rant, but another serious issue, I guess I'll touch on later, if everything else but the sex works out. The therapist did say that sex comes naturally when you fix the rest of the relationship. Maybe I should be more patient for that part.

[Alexandra]

I've regrouped your answers a bit so that things get more into "drawers" it seemed like you were -naturally- jumping from one thing to another. It would be great if you could try and learn to separate them and categorize them too, as I said before you have a very full plate at this time and outlining the portions may make them easier to swallow. However if you feel I've thus taken them out of context, I apologise.

 

On loving her:

 

Yes, Alexandra. I do love her. Very much. (...)But the fact is, I wanted to be with her forever, and I think I still do.

 

That's what I thought. Any new thoughts on the marriage vows? How do you feel about that, any change?

 

The issue of trust:

 

But I have lost a bit of that lately, and a ton of trust. (...)I have this weird feeling, it's hard to explain. And then I'm nervous about her, and the next time she wants to just end it all, or whatever she has up her sleeve for next time. I love her, which makes it so tough.

 

Perfectly normal that you feel you lost a portion of trust. Also, not necessarily a bad thing, there are times when too much blind trust may make a partner feel like they are not desired. Part of it may come back, that's another one you need to give time to.

 

The issue of sex:

 

After being married ten years, should I feel uncomfortable with my wife when I want to become physically intimate with her? Why do I right now? (...)And in the end, I want to feel more comfortable with her. Seriously. It's ridiculous. I tried to have sex with her last night, but I just didn't feel right. I dont know if it was nerves, fear of rejection or what. I just didn't feel like the connection was there. There's a short in the wires somewhere. (...)Not that this is all about sex, but I would still use that as a gauge of the highest level of comfort between two people. And if I don't feel comfortable having sex with her, then something must be missing still. (...)The therapist did say that sex comes naturally when you fix the rest of the relationship. Maybe I should be more patient for that part.

 

I agree you should give that part a bit more time. I'm not sure it will heal on its own, it may but if not by having given it some time you'll have a better channel of communication to use in bringing up the topic with her.

 

You wondered why it happened... In theory a man witholding sex (I know you didn't feel you denied her sex consciently, not what I am implying) after a conflict is rare but it's statistically as "punishment". According to that theory sex is important to you, it's long been part of the fabric of what you give to her in your relationship so doesn't it make sense that you'd not want to give her an important share of you now that you're still mad with her?

 

The guarantee:

 

But I don't want to put up with the crap. And I want to know that she wants the same thing, or if she is just afraid of living on her own. I don't want to feel like I frightened her into staying with me, having her only realize she couldn't financially support herself. I want to know that I am the one for her, and that she wants to work very hard on making it last forever.

 

As the "title" says it sounds like you're wanting a guarantee. Some way in which you'd know for sure you'll never be hurt again, that she won't put you through the same thing again. It's perfectly normal that you feel this way, it's a sign of a healthy defense mechanism. Is it a realistic expectation that such a guarantee will ever appear? I'm tempted to say it isn't. What could she do? Sign a contract? In a sense she's attempting to do that by the marriage vows renewal whether she wants that for the right reasons or not. Will that reassure you? Of course not. It's going to take her repeating it in words and actions with consistency, her reaffirmation of "Yes I love you, won't hurt you again and I'm here to stay." which is why it's important to either stay in marriage counseling or get help individually so that she understands what work lies ahead of her.

 

That's not to say you don't have work to do as well. I know you are convinced you were spotless and perfect and it's possible you were objectively but it's also possible that there are asspects you may need to learn how to fine tune. But that's for later, after you heal more

 

Healing:

 

Otherwise, I think we are connecting, we are being more open, talking, hugging, etc. That's why I say we are like a young couple, but without the sex part.

 

Despite how they may be gestures just and how you certainly are still closed and resentful, that's healing indeed, and it's fast, I've noticed your first post was at the end of March, it's a month later now, right? You certainly are moving through the various phases of this fast. Which is a big plus as it suggests the same thing, that you do in fact love her and want her, it's also a potential red flag. You may want to slow down a bit and understand what's going on in each of them. It would be ideal if you could enlist her help in going through them, make her understand how you feel and what you need to move forward and try and keep in mind what she feels too.

 

All in all I know you wish there was a magic wand that would make things just right again, there isn't, but your dedication to solve it may be just that.

 

I think you're doing great, I'd bet the farm you two will be experiencing a new wonderful beginning sometime very soon. If you manage to learn more about each other in the course of this though, it may give you a chance to a more probable "happy ever after".

[Mz. Pixie]

She really needs to take responsibility for her actions. When she asks "What do you want me to do?"

 

Tell her "Don't try to act like everything is alright, I'm not over your betrayal yet" and "Marriage counseling is a must if you want to fix our marriage"

 

Period. That is the only way you guys are going to get through this.

 

Also, although you may feel like an affair would make you feel better and pay her back for her actions, in reality, it won't. It will only end up making you feel like crap later. So, don't do it.

 

Are you sure that her contact with this guy has ended? Are you monitoring your computer with a keylogger?? If not I suggest you get one. I also think you should check her cell phone records and the home phone records. Her actions are awfully strange at this point and I'm just wondering what she is up to.

[AManWithTroubles]

As for ending the contact with this guy, well, she will be soon. She's quitting her job. Not because of this, but many other reasons. As of right now, well, I'm keylogging, yeah. However, she is only getting on the computer to play MSN games anymore. She doesn't even e-mail her friens right now. Maybe she feels that I am spying on her, since she knows I read some of her e-mail already. I bought a digital recorder also, and plan on putting it in her car. I just haven't snuck around to doing that yet. She appears to leave earlier and earlier for work. I keep having this suspicion that things are going on early in the morning. The worst part is, they are alone together in the morning, before anyone else arrives. *edited to add- Oh yeah, and she has told me stories of another married woman who had an affair at work, and had physical relations within the building, therefore it's possible. * So, the car isn't even really necessary for anything to happen, thus, the digital recorder might be null and void.

 

Now, as for her quitting. I'm afraid that I put so much pressure on her, and it's leading to her quitting her job. I seriously think that we were just not meant to be. You want to know what the main driving factor behind our marital problems are? Physical affection, and sex. She used to always tell me that it was her, that she just can't get in the mood. She backed/backs away from my kisses, rejects sexual advances, etc. It's not like I deny her emotional intimacy or anything else like that. I'm here, I do the dishes, I listen, I help her out with what she needs. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I do put forth a lot of effort. I had a hard time believing it was my physical presence, since I do get a lot of flirtation. I have a bit of a gut developing, but I still fit into a size 33 jeans easily, with room left, at 5'9". I may not have that flat abdomen that I had at 19, but I still look very nice. I haven't even balded a bit. I have very thick and full hair. Now I feel like I'm inflating my ego, great.

 

So, I always bought that maybe she was just having problems with intimacy, something within herself, some sort of depression. And then I read that e-mail, where she said that she has so much more in common with this kid at work. And how much they are alike, and how little she has in common with me. Now, I just keep thinking that maybe this wasn't supposed to be. Even when she tells me that she wants us to work, and that she wants to renew the vows, she still rejects physical intimacy with me. I suppose that's why I don't feel right with her. I'm not comfortable, because I feel like I'm forcing her to do something she doesn't really want to do at all. She must not be attracted to me. She can't find a common ground with me. But I just don't get it. We talk about nonsense things, we laugh together, I listen to all of her problems, without even offering help. It's all there, but the physical parts. It's like we're just friends. Maybe she should just go off and be with someone who's more her "type". It hurts my own confidence to be constantly pushed away.

 

So, is physical intimacy even really important in a marriage? Does it go away in every marriage? Should we just accept that after a lengthy period of time, that one or the other spouse will eventually lose that attraction to the other spouse? At that point, should they call it off? Divorce? Start an open marriage? Or just live without physical intimacy? These are my questions, because I can't take it much longer.

 

I can't compete with a younger guy who has all the time in the world to box, and stay more physically fit than I. And as for the gut, there's not much I can do. I have a degenerative physical problem that keeps me from being able to do sit-ups and other types of abdominal exercises. It hurts like heck, and I refuse to take pain medication, they mess my body up.

 

I suppose this all comes down to how I feel about myself right now. Years of rejection leading up to a point where my wife is thinking about how much she has in common with other men. And then I try to keep her in a marriage where she obviously has nothing, no feelings of intimacy. She comes back and tells me that she does, but she's still having troubles with physical intimacy. Well, listen, lady, you've been telling me that for years, then I find out the truth. And she expects me to just buy it all over again. Sheesh, give me some credit!

 

Alright, end of that rant. I tried to separate the issues a bit better this time.

[Ladyjane14]

The therapist did say that sex comes naturally when you fix the rest of the relationship. Maybe I should be more patient for that part.

 

True enough. This isn't about your physical attractiveness. It's not about washing the dishes or helping out around the house. It's about how connected you two feel with each other on an emotional level.

 

Marriage is fluid not static. You can't necessarily "fix" things and have the remained fixed. Every day a million different things can happen. You'll make some choices right and some wrong, and she'll do the same.

 

A woman's libido is even moreso...."fluid" rather than "static". You can be doing EVERYTHING right....and she's still not getting there sometimes. This isn't necessarily always about you. If her grocery list pops into her head while you're making love, and she realizes that she forgot the laundry detergent....she's just had a COLD SHOWER.

You had nothing to do with that, but you're going to personalize it???

 

The major sex organ for women is the BRAIN. All you can do is to set up the parameters as best you can in order to help her get control of her thought process. When she's secure in the intimacy of her emotional relationship with you....she can concentrate more fully. She's not feeling used for sex because she trusts you emotionally. You're helping her 'set up the parameters' for success.

 

But you know, it'll NEVER be perfect no matter what you do. She still has her body to deal with and it's never-ending cycle of fluctuating hormones.

 

Even so, she'll make loads of progress when she's not fighting uphill anymore with all the 'stinking-thinking' that invades her process. What YOU can do to help is to realize that when you give in to your own feelings of rejection and then act on them....you feed the 'stinking-thinking'.

[AManWithTroubles]

But that's all part of my point. You gotta figure that in about five years' time, there must have been moments where her mind was clear, and she was emotionally close enough to have a physical relationship with me. But, no. The only time I get to have sex with an actuall willing and participating partner, is when she has had a couple drinks during a social event of some sort. Otherwise, the sex is rather lame. She does it as a chore, lying there, letting me do all of the work. I know she's only doing it because I "need" it. I still make sure she gets her orgasm, but it's just not the same as when she drinks. When she has a couple drinks, she actually moves, and enjoys the entire session. If I wanted to have sex with drunk women, I would have remained single, and hung out at bars.

 

I've come to the conclusion that she can have sex with me drinking, because face it, sex is easier with anyone after a few drinks. Yet, sober, she can't. Why not? Well, she already amitted, in an e-mail, that she is not close to me, nothing in common, etc. I don't think she suddenly found all that common ground, just because I showed her separation papers. I think that she will never find the "spark" or whatever, because it just does not exist. I must have run into her at a time when she just needed someone, and I took advantage of the situation. Our relationship went in fast forward and we were married before you could say "marriage". Although I think I found my mate for life, I think that she realized that I just am not the one for her. It went so fast, and she is more than likely regretting her earlier decisions.

 

We are forcing something that just isn't going to happen. Wait for her to be emotionally connected? For her mind to be clear? Well, if there hasn't been those moments within the past five years, they just aren't going to happen. Even she said she hasn't been in love with me for the past five years. Now she is? I think not. She just knows that she can't make it on her own. But why should we beat each other up for the rest of our lives, when we obviously want 2 different things? I want her, and she, well, I don't know what she wants, but I don't think it's me.

[aleatoryd]

I've read your situation. It sounds bad. I'm not married but hope to be one day. I know that if after 10 years of marriage I find my wife no longer loves me and in your case says she hasn't for 5 years I'd be very sad - I can see you feel that way. The thing is you've come on here for advice and to vent feelings - both things we need to do sometimes and perfectly healthy. But meanwhile you have the real world to look after.

 

I'd say the marriage vows are out of guilt and trying to quick fix things. My gut instinct is that it won't last. Sorry to say that but she sounds like she's fallen for someone else and even if she isn't physically cheating she is definitely emotionally cheating. So what could you do? Marriage vows, spice up the romance, go to the gym and get trim. Not going to work unless you resolve the core issue of should you two stay together. If not it might last a few more years but she'd do it all over again.

 

I don't claim to understand her mind. Maybe she thought she'd make you jealous. Maybe she'll wake up and realise she loves you. Ever seen "The World According to Garp?" rather irrelevant but a good film. The characters wife cheats on him but eventually come back. One thing you know is that she once loved you, you don't know if she still does.

 

You need to stop spying on her and confront her. If it blows your marriage up then it wasn't much of one at all. Right now you are the guy she's married to who pays the bills and is reliable. If you caught her cheating would you divorce her? Would she get much from a divorce? Has she thought about that? What kind of woman is your wife?

 

There's too many questions and too many possible answers. You need facts and you need them now. So far everything is about you and her but I have to ask you what about the children? You mentioned you have 3 and no one else has commented. Sometimes people stay together only for the children.

 

I think for their sake you need to deal with this issue. Lay your cards down and if you love her tell her. If not then it's over and you move on. I'd like to think marriages work out but you sound like a guy who has a lot more going for him than your wife realises. If she doesn't love you why be second best? It's all about having character and class. You may forgive your wife but she needs to earn it by being worthy of a second chance. She needs to respect you.

 

1) See what happens when she leaves her job.

2) Discuss these re-commitment vows (after adultery???)

3) If you have faith pray, if you don't ask someone else to pray for you

4) Confront the issue and be "the man" she wants - no more spying etc all that proves is you don't trust her and you want to catch her out - if that's the case you need to end the marriage because it's already over.

5) Remember your children

 

Good luck and take care!

[Ladyjane14]

You gotta figure that in about five years' time, there must have been moments where her mind was clear, and she was emotionally close enough to have a physical relationship with me. But, no. The only time I get to have sex with an actuall willing and participating partner, is when she has had a couple drinks during a social event of some sort.

 

This is just what I'm talking about when I say "personalizing". You assume that she's numbing herself up in order to tolerate having a sexual encounter with you. What?....because you're so gruesome that she can't do it unless she's drunk?

 

What I see in that paragraph is someone who is self-medicating her anxiety. Potentially, that could be as simple as feelings of self-consciousness and inhibition. She might lack confidence. She might be dealing with self-esteem issues regarding her body or her performance. Who knows?

 

I'm no professional...but imagine what a trained sex therapist might see.

 

Ultimately, it's your decision on if you want to stay in the marriage and keep your family dynamic intact. No one can make that choice for you. But I don't see anything about your situation that is hopeless if you decided to give it a good old-fashioned try.

 

You WILL have to change your attitude though. I'm not saying that in a negative or accusatory way, mind you.

It's just that I suspect you're feeling a little victimized in your situation. If you see yourself as a victim....you can't visualize how powerful you actually are in terms of affecting the relationship at it's most fundemental levels.

 

We are forcing something that just isn't going to happen. Wait for her to be emotionally connected? For her mind to be clear? Well, if there hasn't been those moments within the past five years, they just aren't going to happen.

 

Failure to 'wait for something to happen' does not necessarily lend itself to "forcing something".

 

You already know that if you just wait around for the good things in life to fall into your lap....you'll be waiting for a long-ass time. You don't sit around waiting for success to knock on your door in your professional life, do you? No way!.....if you want that next promotion at work, you put in the effort to get noticed. You set up the parameters for success. You don't just wait for it to "happen".

 

This is no different. You can't CHANGE someone else, but you can make it easier for them to select change by creating an environment that's conducive to it.

 

For example, take a look at your last post again. How many assumptions did you make? How many words did you put into your wife's mouth?

 

But that's all part of my point. You gotta figure that in about five years' time, there must have been moments where her mind was clear, and she was emotionally close enough to have a physical relationship with me. But, no. The only time I get to have sex with an actuall willing and participating partner, is when she has had a couple drinks during a social event of some sort. Otherwise, the sex is rather lame. She does it as a chore, lying there, letting me do all of the work. I know she's only doing it because I "need" it. I still make sure she gets her orgasm, but it's just not the same as when she drinks. When she has a couple drinks, she actually moves, and enjoys the entire session. If I wanted to have sex with drunk women, I would have remained single, and hung out at bars.

 

 

I've come to the conclusion that she can have sex with me drinking, because face it, sex is easier with anyone after a few drinks. Yet, sober, she can't. Why not? Well, she already amitted, in an e-mail, that she is not close to me, nothing in common, etc. I don't think she suddenly found all that common ground, just because I showed her separation papers. I think that she will never find the "spark" or whatever, because it just does not exist. I must have run into her at a time when she just needed someone, and I took advantage of the situation. Our relationship went in fast forward and we were married before you could say "marriage". Although I think I found my mate for life, I think that she realized that I just am not the one for her. It went so fast, and she is more than likely regretting her earlier decisions.

 

We are forcing something that just isn't going to happen. Wait for her to be emotionally connected? For her mind to be clear? Well, if there hasn't been those moments within the past five years, they just aren't going to happen. Even she said she hasn't been in love with me for the past five years. Now she is? I think not. She just knows that she can't make it on her own. But why should we beat each other up for the rest of our lives, when we obviously want 2 different things? I want her, and she, well, I don't know what she wants, but I don't think it's me.

 

 

1. She only has sex when she's drunk because she doesn't feel emotionally close to me. (She doesn't love me?)

 

2. She only has sex as a chore because she thinks "I need it".

 

3. She doesn't have that "spark" (attraction?) for me.

 

4. She regrets her decision to marry me because it was made in haste.

 

5. She believes that I'm not the one for her.

 

6. She knows she can't make it on her own (financially?). That's why she doesn't want the separation anymore.

 

7. We want two different things.

 

8. She doesn't really want me.

 

Some of that might be true. Some of it might not.....REGARDLESS of what she's actually said to you, or what you read in her email. People don't always say what they mean. And what they mean sometimes changes at the speed of light. This is particularly true when they are emotional or unhappy. A little confusion goes a long, long way.

 

I think the only way you'll get to the bottom of all this is to continue in your counceling. Your communications are hosed up. If you weren't having a communication problem...you wouldn't be left out in the dark to draw this many conclusions on your own.

 

You know, during the reconciliation phase after my husband's EA, he said to me, "I still feel vulnerable". Well, due to the 'picture clues', I took that to mean that he was worried our progress wouldn't last and that he was afraid he'd reinvest himself in the marriage and get hurt again.

NOPE! What he in fact meant is that he was worried he was still ripe for cheating.

 

It wasn't until after I had used the Listen, Rephrase, Repeat technique several times in succession that his meaning became clear. Now....that's a huge difference in interpretation between what I assumed and what he actually meant! Even when you're partner is telling you something, you may not necessarily have ALL the information until you work out these communication issues.

 

Just by working out this one problem, 'communications in the marriage'...you change the "environment". You begin to set up parameters that make it possible for your wife to make positive changes.

 

My post is getting long, but I just have one other thought for you. And that is to consider taking the keylogger off your wife's computer, as Aleatoryd has suggested. I think you've had it on for long enough to rule out an affair by now.

 

The comments your wife made about her coworker threw you for a loop and made you feel really insecure. And who could blame you? Anyone would feel that way. But if you're reasonable sure that she's not cheating, you're invading her privacy at this point. Worse, you're setting yourself up to hear things that will make your insecurities continue to grow.

 

Monitoring your mate is a double-edged sword. If she's unfaithful, that's one thing. You can't fight what you can't see. But if she's just unhappy...then she'll be complaining to her girlfriends and saying some VERY uncomplimentary things that will make you feel REALLY defeated.

 

This is just the way of women though. We're emotional and we tend to vent. She's just a 'little teapot' blowing off steam at that point. And if it was something that YOU needed to hear, she should have been able to say it to YOU. So you set up an environment that's conducive to talking in order to accomplish this goal.

 

My advice to you: Turn the keylogger off....and the communications on.

[AManWithTroubles]

I suppose you all are right, somewhat. And it's not that I want to catch my wife cheating. It's the exact opposite. I want to feel like I can believe her. If she is cheating, physically or emotionally, yet telling me that she isn't, then she's pulling one over on me. I am trying to believe her, most of me does. But there's a part that still wants to check, probably because she's been lying to me for five years, maybe.

 

Did she love me, or not love me for the past five years? She chooses not to answer this question now, and I don't blame her. But if she did not love me for those five years, then she's been lying to me for five years, by way of silence. Plus, I'm sure she has said it or written it once or twice in that timeframe. So, I'm supposed to believe everything now, because she says from this moment forward. As if the past couple months don't matter one bit, nor the past five years. How do I know when she falls back out of love with me?

 

So, I suppose I'm just insecure right now, about the entire relationship. I need security, but I just don't foresee it happening. Discussing things right now is going to be difficult, because it's that time of the month. She's a psycho right now, and I'm afraid of her.

 

Speaking of which, even Ladyjane14 points out here, women have excuses for all of their actions. If a woman is angry, and yells at people, she gets to blame hormones, PMS, etc. If a woman looks outside the marriage, she is lacking an emotional connection to her husband. If a woman is not having sex with her husband, she lacks that same emotional connection, or maybe she just has too much on her mind, or she has a headache. I'm sure we can point out more.

 

Men, ok, if we get angry, we are jerks, a**holes, and whatever other name you can fit in there. If a man looks outside the marriage, he's a filthy pig. If a man is not having sex with his wife, then he is witholding her from an important part of the marrriage, and is making her feel insecure.

 

Sorry for that little rant at the end, but when the wife is screaming, I gotta get it out somewhere. I know life isn't fair, but does it really need to be that far off balance.

[Sup]

I suppose you all are right, somewhat. And it's not that I want to catch my wife cheating. It's the exact opposite. I want to feel like I can believe her. If she is cheating, physically or emotionally, yet telling me that she isn't, then she's pulling one over on me. I am trying to believe her, most of me does. But there's a part that still wants to check, probably because she's been lying to me for five years, maybe.

 

Did she love me, or not love me for the past five years? She chooses not to answer this question now, and I don't blame her. But if she did not love me for those five years, then she's been lying to me for five years, by way of silence. Plus, I'm sure she has said it or written it once or twice in that timeframe. So, I'm supposed to believe everything now, because she says from this moment forward. As if the past couple months don't matter one bit, nor the past five years. How do I know when she falls back out of love with me?

 

So, I suppose I'm just insecure right now, about the entire relationship. I need security, but I just don't foresee it happening. Discussing things right now is going to be difficult, because it's that time of the month. She's a psycho right now, and I'm afraid of her.

 

Speaking of which, even Ladyjane14 points out here, women have excuses for all of their actions. If a woman is angry, and yells at people, she gets to blame hormones, PMS, etc. If a woman looks outside the marriage, she is lacking an emotional connection to her husband. If a woman is not having sex with her husband, she lacks that same emotional connection, or maybe she just has too much on her mind, or she has a headache. I'm sure we can point out more.

 

Men, ok, if we get angry, we are jerks, a**holes, and whatever other name you can fit in there. If a man looks outside the marriage, he's a filthy pig. If a man is not having sex with his wife, then he is witholding her from an important part of the marrriage, and is making her feel insecure.

 

Sorry for that little rant at the end, but when the wife is screaming, I gotta get it out somewhere. I know life isn't fair, but does it really need to be that far off balance.

 

Well said! Unfortunately ALL of this seems to run TRUE in society today. Looks like reverse DISCRIMINATION to me, however if a MAN did it he's the scum of the earth! I see this point blank EVERYDAY! Men are long overdue for a MENS rights movement! Afterall, women had their movement and look what they accomplished.

[aleatoryd]

^^^^ Yeah and what about a fathers right's to see his kids? The problem with prejudices is they turn 180 degrees and the victims become the oppressors or something like that... not that I'm ant-feminist but as guy I think these things can get taken too far. Look at abuse and domestic violence that's hardly a male only thing.

[Ladyjane14]

Well said! Unfortunately ALL of this seems to run TRUE in society today. Looks like reverse DISCRIMINATION to me, however if a MAN did it he's the scum of the earth! I see this point blank EVERYDAY! Men are long overdue for a MENS rights movement! Afterall, women had their movement and look what they accomplished.

 

I'm sorry....I just can't see this as a Male vs. Female issue, not when we're talking about marriages anyway. Nobody wins when you split into different camps, each embracing an adversarial philosophy.

 

Apple meets Orange and they duke it out....all the while, they could've been making FRUIT SALAD.

 

My marriage is recovered. My relationship is a happy one. That's because my husband and I both threw down our weapons and reached for understanding of one another. It's all about empathy now. He cares how I feel. He prioritizes my feelings as if they were his own. And I do the EXACT same thing for him. We each 'walk a mile' in the other's shoes EVERY day.

 

Of course, in order for that to be successful each partner needs to be able to communicate their FEELINGS. You can't 'walk a mile' if you don't know how the other guy feels. And you can't do it when you're standing in opposition to your partner. She's not going to hear what you're saying when you're yelling at her. She only hears anger and frustration. Her defenses go up....and she doesn't care anymore WHY you're mad. She just feels victimized by your temper, as if she weren't important enough for you to talk to her gently. Instead of empathizing with your feelings...she's protecting her own.

 

You have to be on her team if you want her on yours, and vice versa. When you're communicating your feelings with understanding of hers....she's more likely to hear your words rather than just your red-hot emotional response.

 

I have to admit, I'm a little bit surprised that some of you aren't seeking understanding here.

The idea that 'excuses are provided for women' appears defensive and oppositional to me.

 

I can't see the need for it, because it doesn't solve problems. Communication trouble works BOTH ways afterall. It's not any different for men than it is for women. When your wife is screaming at you...you don't care what she's saying. You're too busy thinking she's a crazy b*tch at that point.

 

When dealing with your mate, if what you hear is man-bashing....what you're actually hearing is your wife's lack of understanding. And if she doesn't understand you, who's job was it to communicate with her?

She wasn't born knowing all about men. And she certainly wasn't born knowing all about YOU.

 

If you're selling a car...you point out all the bells and whistles. You might even mention some of the defects if you're being honest. An educated consumer is a happy consumer, and you don't want the customer returning the merchandise.

 

If you can sell a car, surely you can sell YOU to your wife. She needs to be an "educated consumer". You do too when it comes to that. This is just good communication. That's all it is.

 

I have an article for you that I think will give you some insight into male and female emotional responses:

 

http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=18053&pageIndex=0

 

Why are many men so emotionally clueless? Blame the male brain. "Men are hard-wired differently' date='" says David Powell, PhD, president of the International Center for Health Concerns, who explains that [b']the connection between the left brain, home of logic, and the right, the seat of emotions, is much greater in women. "Women have the equivalent of an interstate highway, so they move readily between the right and left brains. For men the connection is like a meandering country lane, so we don't have such ready access to feelings."[/b]

 

This may explain why, in 125 studies in various cultures, boys and men were consistently less accurate at interpreting unspoken messages in gestures, facial expressions and tone of voice. Men also react less intensely to emotions -- and forget them faster. In an experiment at Stanford University, photographs of upsetting or traumatic images triggered greater activity in more regions of female brains. Three weeks later the women remembered more detail about the pictures than the men. In similar ways, the researchers speculated, a woman may continue stewing over a tiff or slight her husband has long forgotten.

 

Divorce, which typically is more emotionally devastating for men, forces them into unexplored emotional territory. "I had to face raw emotion for the first time," says Schroder, who recently remarried after more than a decade on his own. "For years I wrestled with deep, intense feelings I never knew I had. Once you're in touch with your emotions, you can't bottle them back up. Now I appreciate life more. I'm in touch with my creative side. If I'd known everything I've learned, I might have been a better husband."

 

This explained ALOT to me. I'm a more educated consumer in my marriage, because I realize my husband is DIFFERENT from me emotionally. I'm an apple. He's an orange. And he's going to ACT LIKE AN ORANGE.

 

He doesn't have the tools that I have in terms of accessing his emotions. What this means to me is that he's NOT just an a*hole when he's mad. He's responding with his first line of emotional reaction to stimulus. So, when he shows me ANGER and FRUSTRATION ....there's something underlying it that he hasn't been able to bring forth yet. If I give him some time....and I don't allow myself to become side-tracked by his 'first responder' emotions....he'll eventually get whatever problem he has out on the table, and then we'll talk about it.

 

Bottom line....I think most of you men who are having 'women trouble' are dealing with "undereducated consumers". It doesn't matter what the topic is. It can be sex, or money, or parenting....it's "a topic, not an issue" (to borrow a phrase from JMargel). The REAL issue is communication.

 

I only experience manhood through my husband's eyes. I'm a woman. I'll ALWAYS have an imperfect understanding of 'what it means to be a man', because I only experience it second-hand. So, the more he shares with me, the greater my understanding.

 

My advice to you guys who are misunderstood in your relationship.... EDUCATE your woman. Help her understand you. And reciprocate by opening yourself up to an understanding of her.