MW Is Making Up Fake Stories

[beachrosie]

Based on his wife's actions so far, I'd say the genie has well and truly escaped and has gone on to rampage about the neighborhood. He'll never convince her now that there wasn't something going on; all he'll demonstrate is that he doesn't want to tell her the whole truth, and she'll know it, though she may not know what the truth is exactly.

 

I still say coming clean will work best, will get you where you want to go fastest, and is, quite frankly, the most respectful thing to do for all concerned in this situation. And Sami's quite right that post-divorce, it'll be pretty obvious what's been going on. That won't be fun when it comes time to negotiate sharing kid-time. IMO, by not telling her the truth now, he's just postponing an ugly showdown until later.

 

But, I know we all live our lives in our own ways, and do things the way we think best.

 

So, with that said, I'll just add that I truly wish happiness for all concerned. I mean that - you sound like a nice person, rosie. I hope it works out for you.

 

I agree about the coming clean so it won't be worse later, or it will be worse later anyway. I will talk to him more about it later on today. The situtation is so delicate.

 

Thank you for the kind words and insight, SM. I pray about this everyday.

[beachrosie]

I also think that in a situation where MM/MW leaves, then the marriage was more than likely dead (but yet to be buried) b-e-f-o-r-e OW/OM. Isn't THAT the real reason for the marital breakdown?

 

Yes I agree, and often I believe they both know it has long been over, but they prolong the inevitable. I guess this is how other people get involved, rather unknowingly.

 

I have never been in a relationship like this before. In the past I wouldn't even date a guy that was recently broke up with his girlfriend, never mind someone that was married. I never ever saw myself getting into this situation, but I am in it now...deeply in it. He is seperated now, and is working towards divorce. All's I can do is be supportive, loving and caring and not forget about myself in the process.

 

She doesn't appear to be giving up, and I can understand why...well all except that many many people knew they have been in a horrible relationship for many years. I do think it is taking a toll on both of their health.

[beachrosie]

And yes, I've been both the cheater and the cheatee before.

 

Morality is so flexible for some that's it's almost nonexistent.

 

I was just wondering if you were including yourself in this post? I don't really understand if you are attacking cheater/cheatees, or are you talking about your own experience as being one?

[Jessie61]

 

Perhaps so. But I would say that the one guarantee, if you can call it that, that a marriage should afford both partners is that they will tell each other when things are about to go belly-up, rather than first involving a third party. Some marriages may indeed be "dead" or dying in the mind of the MM/MW - but in many cases, that is because they became fed up with something but neglected to inform their partner of it, or of the seriousness of the situation. In other words, would the marriage have been able to survive if they had both been aware, and tried to work on it?

 

______

 

But I simply cannot see why, if you married someone, you can't at least give them the opportunity to respond directly to your complaints, before making an executive decision that it's over in your mind and you're therefore arbitrarily free to find someone new.

 

 

Serial Muse,

 

I agree with you. Married people (or couples for that matter!) SHOULD tell each other when things are beginning to go wrong, but often they don't which is probably a sign in itself that something actually is wrong; perhaps they feel that the other person won't listen; perhaps one party feels he/she HAS complained and that the other party ignored it. There are loads of possibilities here. And it is equally each and every single time that happens. But it doesn't stop it from happening though....

 

I was in a relationship for many years where I constantly complained to my BF about where we were in our R, but he was of the attitude that nothing was wrong and "if it ain't broken, don't fix it!" There was no malice there at all, far from it, we were just on different pages, that's all. Eventually I gave up and left him.

 

But I think that when a third party comes into the picture, then something is a-l-r-e-a-d-y wrong in the R, and the OW/OM is more a symthom than the cause. Of course, it is possible that whatever is wrong might be fixable, but there is already something there to be fixed. Then again, I am no expert and you are of course entitled to disagree.

[Sami_D]

As to Sami's point - well, that's a matter of debate (that's being currently discussed over in infidelity). I disagree, as I think many BS would. I think there are many, many BS who would much rather know the person they're choosing to be with, than live a lie. Even if they didn't yet know they were living it.

 

Well yes... and I agree with this TOO! IF my partner was having an A I would MUCH rather know about it. So I could do something about it!! Like kick him out!!

 

I'm not talking about 'living a lie' as in the H has an affair and keeps W in the dark. (Despite appearances (like... um... I'm having an A with a MM) I don't agree with affairs, I've never wanted to be in one and i don't want to be in one now. I want him to leave!) I was meaning that IF the H has decided to D, and goes ahead with that... then I don't see any benefit at that point in telling the W, oh by the way I was having an affair behind your back too.

[Sami_D]

I see this consistent childish insistence that there is rhyme or reason to an affair. When there isn't and there never is.

 

Of course having an affair isn't logical. Who is saying it is? This is the most illogical thing I ever did in my whole life.

 

... I can hurt men, sure. They've hurt me so many times before that I almost excuse the act to myself. But to hurt another woman, for no reason, even if she is crazy seems to me that your heart is selfish and cold.

 

Well there's twisted logic if ever I saw it.

[serial muse]

Serial Muse,

 

I agree with you. Married people (or couples for that matter!) SHOULD tell each other when things are beginning to go wrong, but often they don't which is probably a sign in itself that something actually is wrong; perhaps they feel that the other person won't listen; perhaps one party feels he/she HAS complained and that the other party ignored it. There are loads of possibilities here. And it is equally each and every single time that happens. But it doesn't stop it from happening though....

 

I was in a relationship for many years where I constantly complained to my BF about where we were in our R, but he was of the attitude that nothing was wrong and "if it ain't broken, don't fix it!" There was no malice there at all, far from it, we were just on different pages, that's all. Eventually I gave up and left him.

 

But I think that when a third party comes into the picture, then something is a-l-r-e-a-d-y wrong in the R, and the OW/OM is more a symthom than the cause. Of course, it is possible that whatever is wrong might be fixable, but there is already something there to be fixed. Then again, I am no expert and you are of course entitled to disagree.

 

Yeah, I understand this point, and it's an interesting one. I think the key thing to note is that one partner may feel that they've been complaining, but the other doesn't really understand what's at stake. People get complacent, and they may not realize just how rocky things are.

 

Of course, I absolutely know that there are relationships where one person is constantly saying that they need something to change, and the other ignores it, and that is incredibly frustrating and certainly warrants ending things if it's never going to change...nobody should be stuck in a loveless/unfulfilling relationship. But I guess I'm saying that before starting an affair, or even walking out, the last-ditch effort should be to really lay it out on the table - in other words, to say, "look, I'm thinking of leaving you/having an affair if XXX doesn't change: that's how unhappy I am. Do you want to do something about it, or should we end this now?"

 

That's in an ideal world of course.

 

That sort of directness rarely occurs, and I think it's often because people generally enter into an affair as a stopgap measure; they think they'll relieve whatever internal pressures are existing in the marriage, and feel whole again that way. Instead, of course, it only adds more pressure, twists things further, and adds to the general murkiness of it all. I totally agree that something may already be seriously wrong; but IMO I think it's the MM/MW's responsibility to express that to their partner first, before confiding in a third person. Seems straightforward, right? And yet...here we all are. Lost in the murk.

 

Sigh. Anyhoo, I'm sorry, rosie; I'm straying farther and farther from the topic. I'm slapping my own wrist here. I'll cut it out.

[blind_otter]

Of course having an affair isn't logical. Who is saying it is? This is the most illogical thing I ever did in my whole life.

 

 

 

Well there's twisted logic if ever I saw it.

 

Hah!

 

twisted logic is contagious apparently.

 

At least I've gotten to the point now where I realize the value of committment, even honoring others.

 

And hey, you get molested when you're 4, raped when you're 12, and raped when you're 19 and see how bitter towards men you become.

 

I'm not attacking anyone.

 

It's just disappointment and disgust with humanity in general. jesus read the post, defensive much?

 

And that whole "they don't talk about their problems and that is a sign of problems" is such circular logic that I am choking on this bagel as I laugh hysterically while I write this.

[Sami_D]

Of course, I absolutely know that there are relationships where one person is constantly saying that they need something to change, and the other ignores it, and that is incredibly frustrating and certainly warrants ending things if it's never going to change...nobody should be stuck in a loveless/unfulfilling relationship. But I guess I'm saying that before starting an affair, or even walking out, the last-ditch effort should be to really lay it out on the table - in other words, to say, "look, I'm thinking of leaving you/having an affair if XXX doesn't change: that's how unhappy I am. Do you want to do something about it, or should we end this now?"

 

You know, I really agree with you about communication in a R, and how it shouldn't have to get to the point of having an affair.

 

But see... I agree with Jessie... I've been there too... I've stuck out TWO long-term relationships where I said, FOR YEARS "this isn't working... I'm unhappy... can't you spend less time working... why are you always at your parents when I need you..? Why is there miraculously money for things YOU need when you said over and over we couldn't fix the heating..? I NEED some physical attention and you're never interested!!!!!!!"

 

After years... you get tired of it. WHY should one person do all the work of trying, trying, trying... and getting nothing back AND THEN be expected to lay it all out on a plate "I'm so desperate that I'm considering blah blah blah"... My opinion is that if someone is so complacent they can't realise I'm unhappy unless I have to paint it on their NEW car in big red letters... then they don't deserve my time or energy and certainly I OWE THEM NOTHING. Cloth ears.

 

That's better

 

Also... no-one in their right mind lies in bed at night thinking... I'm so unhappy I think I'll have an affair. So there's no possibility of anyone saying that to their partner.

 

Affairs (usually) happen because things have drifted... and someone new comes into your life and by then... it's all pretty much too late.

[Sami_D]

And that whole "they don't talk about their problems and that is a sign of problems" is such circular logic that I am choking on this bagel as I laugh hysterically while I write this.

 

Not talking about your problems isn't a sign ... it's a problem.

 

And as I wrote above... WHY should someone in a relationship feel they owe their partner anything, once they've banged their head against the wall of 's/he's not listening' for enough years... How about the shoe being on the other foot?

[Guest]

when he knew it was her trying to make me look bad./QUOTE]

 

Rosie...my exmm's wife did the same thing after I broke things off with him. She told him that I was running around town saying bad things about him, and making claims that he and I were secretly meeting at a particular restraunt for lunches. None of it was true, of course, and I know she didn't hear such a thing from anybody. She fabricated it to demonize me, to put me in the worst possible light in the eyes of MM.

 

He knew better, he knew it isn't in my character to spread lies such as this, and we both knew why she did it. Initially, I was angry and came close to confronting her. But after thinking it over, I realized she was hurt, angry and confused. And really, who could blame her?

 

In most cases, the BW will choose to demonize the OW rather than face the harsh truth that her husband betrayed her. Because, to do so would mean facing a life without him, accepting the painful fact that he betrayed her in the worst possible way a human can betray another. So, rather than leaving his sorry, lying ass....she will instead blame the OW for her H's betrayal. It's the only way she can cushion the horrible blow she's been dealt.

 

Try to understand her incredible pain. I do know how frustrating this for you....been there, done that....but if the shoes were reversed and it was you who had been betrayed, wouldn't you feel the same way?

 

Hang in there!

 

~Torn~

[Jessie61]

 

Yeah, I understand this point, and it's an interesting one. I think the key thing to note is that one partner may feel that they've been complaining, but the other doesn't really understand what's at stake. People get complacent, and they may not realize just how rocky things are.

____

 

But I guess I'm saying that before starting an affair, or even walking out, the last-ditch effort should be to really lay it out on the table - in other words, to say, "look, I'm thinking of leaving you/having an affair if XXX doesn't change: that's how unhappy I am. Do you want to do something about it, or should we end this now?"

 

That's in an ideal world of course.

 

 

Yes, I think that the situations that I described just show how communications have already broken down between the couple. In such a situation it might be difficult to come right out and say things. Like you said yourself, in am IDEAL world you would do that!

 

When I gave on my my R, I eventually stopped looking for solutions within the R. I told myself that perhaps there is someone else out there that would suit me better. I soon as I had let that thought into my head, I realised that it would only be a matter of time before I w-o-u-l-d meet someone else (weeks, months, years - who knows?). That is when I decided to leave my BF. I didn't want to do that to him and IF I met someone I wanted to be available to engage in a proper R without the hassle of an A. That is the best I could do, I guess?

 

It is easy for me to say that; we had no kids, we did not own any assets together, so in a way I can understand why someone would stay on even AFTER they have reached this point.... Not ideal, far from it, but I can see how that would happen...

[Sami_D]

It is easy for me to say that; we had no kids, we did not own any assets together, so in a way I can understand why someone would stay on even AFTER they have reached this point.... Not ideal, far from it, but I can see how that would happen...

 

Yes exactly. It's hard enough to walk away from a R when there are no children, no joint assets. I think a R where that was the case would have to be Very Very bad for someone to walk away... unless a newer, better life was in view.

 

Like who is going to say well... I will miss the kids and of course uproot their lives completely, and I'll be in a financial mess, but HEY... at least I'll be single. Um no.

 

That's why these relationships drag on at least until someone new comes on the scene.

[Jessie61]

 

Yes exactly. It's hard enough to walk away from a R when there are no children, no joint assets. I think a R where that was the case would have to be Very Very bad for someone to walk away... unless a newer, better life was in view.

 

Like who is going to say well... I will miss the kids and of course uproot their lives completely, and I'll be in a financial mess, but HEY... at least I'll be single. Um no.

 

That's why these relationships drag on at least until someone new comes on the scene.

 

Yes, I agree. That still doesn't change the fact that "the new one on the scene" is more often than not only the sympthom, not the cause....

[Torn Up]

when he knew it was her trying to make me look bad.QUOTE]

 

Rosie...I posted a response to this earlier in the day but forgot to log in and it posted under "guest." So far, it hasn't shown up so I'll repost my response.

 

My exMM's wife did the same thing after I broke it off with MM. She told him, and others, that I was running around town bad-mouthing him, and making claims that he and I were still secretly meeting for lunches at a particular restraunt. None of this was true, of course, and he and I both knew it. Nor do I believe anybody told her such a thing.

 

She fabricated it to demonize me in the eyes of MM, pure and simple. It was her desire to place me in the worst possible light with the hope of souring MM against me and eliminating the risk of another affair between us.

 

Initially, I was very angry....so much so I chewed on the idea of confronting her with her lies. But after thinking it over, I understood why she did it. She was in deep pain, very angry and confused. And really, who could blame her? She didn't deserve what was done to her. In fact, neither of us did. He lied to us both. Broke both of our hearts, not to mention his daughter's.

 

I know how frustrating this is for you, Rosie...been there, done that. But TRY to understand where she's coming from. If the shoes were reversed and it was you he betrayed, wouldn't you feel the same? Doesn't mean you'd act like her, but I can guarantee you'd FEEL the way she does.

 

Very often, the BW will elect to demonize the OW. It's the easy was out. To face the brutal truth that her H betrayed her, lied to her, broke his vows to her, cheated on her would force her to take action. This, of course, would mean facing life without him, giving up a life of comfort (mostly financial), and if there are kids involved (particularly small ones), the thought of striking it out on her own is terrifying. So, it's much easier to blame the OW for the affair. It's the only option they've got to cushion the horrible blow they've been dealt.

 

Hang in there...hopefully things will get better.

 

~Torn~

[Sami_D]

Yes, I agree. That still doesn't change the fact that "the new one on the scene" is more often than not only the sympthom, not the cause....

 

That, I agree with.

 

The OW or OM just doesn't happen unless things are already in trouble. Even Marriage Builders accepts that.

[Jessie61]

 

Very often, the BW will elect to demonize the OW. It's the easy was out. To face the brutal truth that her H betrayed her, lied to her, broke his vows to her, cheated on her would force her to take action. This, of course, would mean facing life without him, giving up a life of comfort (mostly financial), and if there are kids involved (particularly small ones), the thought of striking it out on her own is terrifying. So, it's much easier to blame the OW for the affair. It's the only option they've got to cushion the horrible blow they've been dealt.

 

Hear hear...

[movinon05]

Well I'm just catching up on all these posts and I've given examples of what I had to go through in my story and on other posts.

 

BR, I had to go through a lot of what you're having to go through. I'll reiterate the highlights. The W punched me in the face, kicked me another time, threw things at me, followed me around in stores calling me bitch, whore, etc. with kids in tow, followed me in her car when she saw me, taunted me numerous times in front of a whole stand of baseball onlookers who all knew what she was doing and "watched the show". Her daughter taunted me as well, at basketball games and at other times in front of my children - who she knew very well as they all went to the same school. She and her daughter did it all with big smiles on their faces and looks of pride for what they were doing. They thought it was funny and enjoyed it. They twisted stories around which they told the MM to make me look bad. It always made him question me until he heard my side of the story and he knew I was telling the truth because he knew what his W was like and what his daughter was like. Many of these things he should have stopped, and sometimes he said he did say something about it, but I'll never know for sure. Many times he did nothing to save his own hide. When she kept up the harassing calls, I logged them and recorded them. I went to the police to get advice and told my MM to make sure he told her that I would file charges. The one thing I had going for me is that she did have to watch herself because she works for the county and if she got into legal trouble, she could lose her job.

 

Some things I could understand, but she really went all out to demonize me. Most of it I just ignored because I knew the stories she told were untrue and I never ever said anything to her. I never let her know it bothered me and I always walked away or pretended to ignore it. I told my kids they should never involve themselves the way her daughter did. They stayed out of it completely. I'm sure she was spoiling for a fight but she never got it. Unless something happens again - because now I'm done protecting him and she'll just have to hear the truth once and for all because I am not afraid of her. And then she can do what she wants with that truth. I truly don't care.

 

Personally, and as I've said before, I'll never understand why she would keep this up for 7 years, and still keep him. But I think it was more of a power thing with her.

 

The W of your MM does seem to have serious problems though from what I read in your other thread. You're doing the right thing by not feeding into her actions. If he believes you and he is doing something about it, then you should let him take care of it - unless you were going to be harmed obviously. I think you said that he told her in therapy? This is the best way to do it because there is someone there to mediate and perhaps help her deal with her feelings. I've read through many of your posts. It sounds like he is trying to resolve it in the best way he can now. You even have the support of his family. That should say a lot. Hang in there and prepare to go for a ride. At least if you've got him there taking care of it (unlike mine), you've got a chance. Good luck.