God and Jesus

[quankanne]

going off-topic for a sec: I've noticed you're from the UK, Alea ... what's been the response over there to the movie created out of CS Lewis' book "The Chronicles of Narnia"? Some people here were not happy that the Christians were trying to turn it into a movie about spirituality, which I found curious, because Lewis is considered a Christian author!

[aleatoryd]

thanks for the clarifications, alea ... al .. A! (as you can see, everyone gets a nickname)

 

Not too sure about this nickname business lol! Doe that mean you're called quank or quack? I'm off to bed now as it's stupid time in UK (7:20 AM I need to sort my sleeping pattern out!). But I will answer your CS Lewis/Narnia question when I'm back online. Take care!

[blind_otter]

going off-topic for a sec: I've noticed you're from the UK, Alea ... what's been the response over there to the movie created out of CS Lewis' book "The Chronicles of Narnia"? Some people here were not happy that the Christians were trying to turn it into a movie about spirituality, which I found curious, because Lewis is considered a Christian author!

 

He wrote another book, called Till We Have Faces, I read it in high school and I love it still, although it's mildly depressing. "Now we see in a glass dimly, but then face to face" (Corinthians) -- it's got an intertwining of pagan mythology and christian symbolism, a retelling of the myth of cupid and psyche.

 

To me, hell is ceasing to exist, like when a candle blows out, or a fire goes out. To be cold, and alone, in the dark.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Some people here were not happy that the Christians were trying to turn it into a movie about spirituality, which I found curious, because Lewis is considered a Christian author!

 

And that Lewis wrote the stories as christian allegories, with plenty of subtle and not-so-subtle christian references in the text.

[Guest]

to otter. I honestly feel once you have felt the presence of god (like when you were young) you yearn to get it back. There are alot of people who don't believe in Him or Jesus because they have never seeked HIM. You seek him and you will find him. Alot of people are afraid of the unknown. So they go their lives believing it's crap because they have never seen, felt, or known HIM personally. There is a reason for christianity today. They have felt his VERY presence. When you seek and find it's like no other. You yearn for it it. It's like a thirst you can not quench. So when you felt Him when you were younger, you let him be a part of your life, you gave him your heart-HE hasn't left you. You left him. He is still there waiting.... As far as heaven and hell? I honestly believe that I would rather die believing that HE exists, the consequences, the rewards of afterlife and forgiven of all sins(the worst of living this life? Just living a good life, trying to be a good person, the ten commandments, and asking for forgiveness of my sins daily) than to die not believing and find out HE was true. As for the myth that we (humans) came from Apes, gorilla's. monkey's and so forth? If this is to be true-then why are the "Apes, gorilla's, monkey's still here on earth? Why haven't they become humans? As for being perfect-no one is or can attain perfection. But you can live your life to become"Christ-like" in the sense of what you "know or heard about Christ" living by his example.

In no way are my intentions meant to be offensive to you or anyone reading this. I just hope it might give some insight or help in some way.....

[burning 4 revenge]

He wrote another book, called Till We Have Faces, I read it in high school and I love it still, although it's mildly depressing. "Now we see in a glass dimly, but then face to face" (Corinthians) -- it's got an intertwining of pagan mythology and christian symbolism, a retelling of the myth of cupid and psyche.

 

To me, hell is ceasing to exist, like when a candle blows out, or a fire goes out. To be cold, and alone, in the dark.

 

To me hell is being in love with a woman who can never love you.

[burning 4 revenge]

Two books about faith and existence

 

The Stranger- Albert Camus

 

Miss Lonelyhearts- Nathaniel West

 

Absolute classics

[bluetuesday]

aleatoryd

Member

 

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: West Midlands, UK

Posts: 206

 

where in the west midlands are you from? i'm familiar with the place is all.

[quankanne]

He wrote another book, called Till We Have Faces, I read it in high school and I love it still, although it's mildly depressing. "Now we see in a glass dimly, but then face to face" (Corinthians) -- it's got an intertwining of pagan mythology and christian symbolism, a retelling of the myth of cupid and psyche.

 

I remember that book! Haven't read it recently, but I found it kind of haunting, emotionally.

 

To me, hell is ceasing to exist, like when a candle blows out, or a fire goes out. To be cold, and alone, in the dark.

__________________

Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me.

 

that's because of the damned clowns!

 

Does that mean you're called quank or quack?

 

"Quack"??? That one busts me up – I think of a huge waddling duck whenever I read it :laugh:

 

it's usually quank ...

[Bogun]

To me, hell is ceasing to exist

This is what buddhists call nibbana/nirvana. Samsara, or the wheel of existence is suffering. Nibbana is about ending this perpetual wheel of existence. But then, nibbana is not non-existence either.

[blind_otter]

This is what buddhists call nibbana/nirvana. Samsara, or the wheel of existence is suffering. Nibbana is about ending this perpetual wheel of existence. But then, nibbana is not non-existence either.

 

Yeah that's what I'm saying. The self, "I" passes away. The Ego as buffer. But the ecstatic union with the universe isn't ceasing to exist, or being cold in the dark. It's being in the light. Just being.

[blind_otter]

that's because of the damned clowns!

 

 

Hah! You know you find the clown incredibly irresistable.

[aleatoryd]

where in the west midlands are you from? i'm familiar with the place is all.

 

I'm currently in Birmingham at University.

[aleatoryd]

going off-topic for a sec: I've noticed you're from the UK, Alea ... what's been the response over there to the movie created out of CS Lewis' book "The Chronicles of Narnia"? Some people here were not happy that the Christians were trying to turn it into a movie about spirituality, which I found curious, because Lewis is considered a Christian author!

 

To be honest over here it was just taken to be a film made of a childhood classic. We'd had Lord of the Rings which made people think wow! It was inevitable that someone would re-do The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. The Narnia books contain a allegory of Christianity - Aslan's sacrifice been one of them as well as an idea that there is a greater good before evil which already has predictd the outcome and is already victorious.

 

C S Lewis is a Christian author who wrote classic fiction like the Screwtape letters and Narnia, as well as more serious books like The Abolition of Man, Miricles, and The Problem of pain. However to most people Narnia is just a very nice story - Christians can see Christianity in the books but from my friends in the University Christian Union and the Churches I'm aware of there was no major upset about a lack of Christianity. I think people enjoyed it but were disapointed at the length of the film as it condensed events like Lucy's heroism and her healing of the wounded (it is only hinted at the end). Overall it was a good film aimed at children, though the cinema's I went to were full of adults every time! They cut down the details but I guess it was either that or make a 3 hour extended epic and admit it's for adults not kids!

[johan]

Yeah that's what I'm saying. The self, "I" passes away. The Ego as buffer. But the ecstatic union with the universe isn't ceasing to exist, or being cold in the dark. It's being in the light. Just being.

 

This is the reason why Wal-mart should be avoided: they don't allow unions, not even ecstatic ones.

[blind_otter]

I wonder why so many have lost faith. And I wonder if losing faith also makes you lose faith in yourself, or others, and has some deeper impact on other relationships, not just the one you have with God?

[quankanne]

I wonder why so many have lost faith. And I wonder if losing faith also makes you lose faith in yourself, or others, and has some deeper impact on other relationships, not just the one you have with God?

 

from what I've observed, including speaking with a very dear friend, a lot of folks lose their was due to something someone connected with their church said or did. And I think because they link that someone with religion, they find religion as a whole flawed when that something happens. Case in point? The sexual abuse problem in the Church. Not all priests are molesters – in fact, most of them are decent guys and some actually great guys, tootling along as they do their ministry. BUT, the abusers – who are a small percentage of the priests overall – by their actions have turned people off the faith. How do you separate priest from Catholic Church, especially when you identify that priest AS the Church, rather than the community itself? How much easier is it to walk away because of that abusive situation when you feel there's no way to correct it or you feel like your concerns or complaints are falling on deaf ears?

 

my thought is that when a person falls away, he goes one of two directions: he no longer cares, and decides to merely exist without putting emphasis on the faith factor, or he cultivates a deep-seated hatred of anything that reeks of faith or spirituality or religion because he feels it's something "bad," based on his personal experiences.

 

not sure how interpersonal relationships figure into this, though one of my good friends is a fallen-away Catholic who has no use for God, and while I don't agree with that, we still get along fine, because she's a good person. Maybe it all boils down to what a person retains when they turn away from faith? In another post, someone (don't remember who) talked about being a good, decent person, and that being this way didn't necessarily mean you needed to have a belief in God. I think it'd be much easier to find a common friendship or acquaintanceship with someone like this because I can identify with that goodness, than to strike up any sort of relationship with someone who insists on living inside the black cloud that hangs above their head!

[blind_otter]

Funny enough a friend came over last week and sat there with her daughter on her lap, all serious, and said tentatively, "I know people don't usually talk about this stuff, but you seem to be really open to different ideas so I wanted to talk to you....about God." -- is it really like talking about something taboo nowadays?

[burning 4 revenge]

I wonder why so many have lost faith. And I wonder if losing faith also makes you lose faith in yourself, or others, and has some deeper impact on other relationships, not just the one you have with God?

 

People have been losing faith since the begining of recorded history. It is not a new phenomena.

 

The first historian to document Rome's rise to power at length was the Corinthian Polybius. In one of his passages he laments the fall of the cultured Greeks and the rise of the less sophisticated Romans. One of the issues he singles out is the loss of belief in the gods among the Greek peoples. He argues that a loss of belief has contributed to corruption, immoral sexual practices, loss of valor and selfishness. He contrasts the cultural degredation of the Greeks with the social discipline of the Latins across the sea. At one point he states

 

Since the masses of the people are inconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate and reckless of consequence, they are better to be filled with fears to keep them in order. The ancients did well, therefore, to invent the gods and the belief in punishment after death

 

Polybius circa 146 B.C.

[quankanne]

is it really like talking about something taboo nowadays?

 

sounds like she respects you to the point where she doesn't want to offend by bringing up a subject you may not warm to. A lot of times it's so much easier to wait for the other person to bring it up because you can gage the situation better that way. And, I think people have become very wary of proselytizing ...

[blind_otter]

1At last Job spoke, and he cursed the day of his birth. 2He said:

 

3"Cursed be the day of my birth, and cursed be the night when I was conceived. 4Let that day be turned to darkness. Let it be lost even to God on high, and let it be shrouded in darkness. 5Yes, let the darkness and utter gloom claim it for its own. Let a black cloud overshadow it, and let the darkness terrify it. 6Let that night be blotted off the calendar, never again to be counted among the days of the year, never again to appear among the months. 7Let that night be barren. Let it have no joy. 8Let those who are experts at cursing--those who are ready to rouse the sea monster[a]--curse that day. 9Let its morning stars remain dark. Let it hope for light, but in vain; may it never see the morning light. 10Curse it for its failure to shut my mother's womb, for letting me be born to all this trouble.

 

11"Why didn't I die at birth as I came from the womb? 12Why did my mother let me live? Why did she nurse me at her breasts? 13For if I had died at birth, I would be at peace now, asleep and at rest. 14I would rest with the world's kings and prime ministers, famous for their great construction projects. 15I would rest with wealthy princes whose palaces were filled with gold and silver. 16Why was I not buried like a stillborn child, like a baby who never lives to see the light? 17For in death the wicked cease from troubling, and the weary are at rest. 18Even prisoners are at ease in death, with no guards to curse them. 19Rich and poor are there alike, and the slave is free from his master.

 

20"Oh, why should light be given to the weary, and life to those in misery? 21They long for death, and it won't come. They search for death more eagerly than for hidden treasure. 22It is a blessed relief when they finally die, when they find the grave. 23Why is life given to those with no future, those destined by God to live in distress? 24I cannot eat for sighing; my groans pour out like water. 25What I always feared has happened to me. What I dreaded has come to be. 26I have no peace, no quietness. I have no rest; instead, only trouble comes."

[quankanne]

I must admit, I never understood what the whole Job Experiment was all about ...

[blind_otter]

I must admit, I never understood what the whole Job Experiment was all about ...

 

I was reading Job to try to get my Dad some spiritual support. THe bible is his religious text of choice. Someone recommended John to me, instead, and psalms.

 

Because man, if that's not a description of suicidal depression I don't know what is.

[quankanne]

Paul always seems a breath of fresh air, speaking as if he were right next to me (Romans 1:8-12) and some of the Psalms (number 4, especially the last verse, "In peace I shall both lie down and sleep, for you alone, Lord, make me secure." And Psalm 27's opening lines, "The Lord is my light and salvation, whom do I fear?"). Like a rock, strong and steady and safe ...