ANY hope of alcoholic husband changing?

[1AQUARIAN]

My H and I will be married for 25 years it Sept., however we have been separated for over 2 months due to his alcholism and alcoholic behaviors(lying, stealing, sneaking, deceipt). I recently (few days ago) told him I wanted a divorce. He has since been going to AA and says he is sober. He wants our marriage, right now I do NOT as I do NOT trust him. But I keep wandering "what if?" What if he has become sober? will things change in our relationship then? Has anyone dealt with an alcoholic spouse who "says" they've changed and are sober........he's been going to AA BUT not doing the steps. says he hasn't gotten a sponsor yet. (after 3 months ).....Also is "working constantly". Told him I thought he needed to see a substance abuse counselor, he feels he doesn't have the time as he is always working. He says, "work is his therapy, it keeps him sober". CAN he have been "shellshocked" with my telling him that I want a divorce that he can be sober? Or am I just Hoping? Is he just making excuses? Can alcoholics get sober and stay that way without doing the AA steps and going to counseling to find out why he drank? I've had thoughts of "trying again" just to see..........but, am I just setting myself up for a fall????

Thanks for any insight!

[Skeered]

My ex of 11 years was an alcholoic from day 1...I left him 4 times throughout the marriage until,I had finally heard enough, seen enough, fought enough etc to say I was done for good. I do believe that an alcholic can become sober with or without AA or the steps but here's the thing...your hubby started this process because you did shock him into it. If he felt he had a problem he would have taken that step on his own or seeked out counsel. My ex many times would make all these false promises, basically, to get me back and so forth. The alcoholic has no clue the damage they do to the people around them, it's a very selfish habit and until he decides to change for HIM he won't have changed at all. You have to decide if you are willing to give this another shot, but my personal opinion and years of experience with the same thing say that if you don't want to go back and the trust is shot etc. then give it time of seperation to make your mind up, if after a certain period of time you still feel he hasn't proved to you without a shadow of a doubt that he's done drinking thats when you say your through completely. Right now with you both being apart he can say anything he wants about going to the meetings and so forth but I find it hard to believe that after 3 months noone has approached him to be his sponser. Not only that if he wanted the program to work you can request help in finding one. I don't think he's putting forth any of his own effort he's just trying to appease you to come back.

 

Keep in mind that alcoholics find every reason to blame everyone and everything else for their problems, every excuse and reason why they can't fix it...but you have to remember that you aren't the cause and you can only help those willing to except thier problems as their own.

[milvushina]

I doubt whether I can be much help, I'm only 26, but I have an alcoholic ex-H whose drinking caused most of our problems. It not only cost him me but also drove away a lot of his friends. When I brought up divorce, it did motivate him to go to counseling, but he would not go to AA and though he always promised to cut down and quit, after months of therapy I saw no change.

The counselor said it can be a long process. After a few months, I had absolutely no desire to try to work on things anymore, couldn't stand him, just wanted to be away and stop being mistreated. You said you still think "what if..." So if there is still love and hope there, you might go to couples counseling, individual counseling, and his AA. I'm brought up to believe that you should definitely seek counseling- hopefully before it's too late. but if you come to feel the complete hopelessness I did, you might have to let him go. He can only change when he feels the desire himself. I do have sympathy for you. I was only with him for 5 years and I can't imagine how difficult this would be after 25. Best wishes

[blind_otter]

Can alcoholics get sober and stay that way without doing the AA steps and going to counseling to find out why he drank? I've had thoughts of "trying again" just to see..........but, am I just setting myself up for a fall????

Thanks for any insight!

 

They can stop drinking, but google "Dry drunk".

 

Their mental and emotional homes stay chaotic, their approach to everyday living remains unrealistic, and their behavior, both verbal and physical, is still unacceptable. But they do not drink alcohol. It's a consequence of longterm dependency on a substance to cope. Alcoholics are avoidant. That's why they don't want to go to AA. TO look at what they have become.

 

One guy in my group was sober for years before going to AA. Just because you stop drinking doesn't mean anything, you have to do the work to learn how to live life in a healthy manner, and to stop injuring yourself and those around your.

[2sunny]

Art Critic is the expert in this arena. Maybe he will give you some advice for the long term haul.

 

Some of us don't have the length of time behind us with that experience as much as AC.

 

It does take a lot of will power and diligence. A huge willingness to stay away from the juice....

 

As much as you can encourage, that would be a good thing....

[Ladywithafan]

They can stop drinking, but google "Dry drunk".

 

Their mental and emotional homes stay chaotic, their approach to everyday living remains unrealistic, and their behavior, both verbal and physical, is still unacceptable. But they do not drink alcohol. It's a consequence of longterm dependency on a substance to cope. Alcoholics are avoidant. That's why they don't want to go to AA. TO look at what they have become.

 

One guy in my group was sober for years before going to AA. Just because you stop drinking doesn't mean anything, you have to do the work to learn how to live life in a healthy manner, and to stop injuring yourself and those around your.

 

...with the cocaine also?

[blind_otter]

...with the cocaine also?

 

This is the difference, I think:

 

Recovery vs. Abstinence

 

Recovery requires working on all of the problems and issues that led one to drink/use in the first place. Abstinence is refraining from drinking/using by will power alone.

 

Recovery involves major lifestyle changes. Abstinence doesn't.

 

Recovery involves developing a support group or system. Abstinence doesn't.

 

Recovery requires working on yourself and fixing what is broken. Abstinence doesn't.

 

See what I'm saying? It's about changing the way you look at yourself, and others, and your life.

[RecordProducer]

I know a man who was never at home, always drinking, and cheated on his wife (he was going to whore houses). One day he came clean about everything and she made him go to a rehabilitation center. he was there for 2-3 months. After that he didn't drink anymore and basically behaved. Unfortunately I don't know anymore details such as who wanted him to change (he or his wife) or if he is a good husband now. He didn't drink for a while so Ii don't think he went back to it later.

 

I am a drinker that could be drunk 24/7 and I can also NOT drink for a long time and feel good, depending on my desire. If I feel weak, I can drink. If I fear that I will hurt people around me and ruin things, I don't.

 

Some people have crisis, some don't. Some are aggressive when drunk, some are cheerful. Some need to just say "OK, I am not drinking anymore!" and some need a lot of help and encouragement.

 

My ex-husband's father was the aggressive type alcoholic for many years and his wife left him when her sons were 2 and 4 years old. They were separated for a couple years then she went back to him. He was 36 when he decided not to drink ever again. And he never did. He says it was very easy for him to stop, he just made the decision. He continued to cheat on his wife though.

 

If your husband is really sober (it's not to hard to tell, is it?) then all you have to do is give him a lot of emotional support. If you see that he has withdrawal symptoms, encourage him to seek help.

[Ladywithafan]

This is the difference, I think:

 

Recovery vs. Abstinence

 

Recovery requires working on all of the problems and issues that led one to drink/use in the first place. Abstinence is refraining from drinking/using by will power alone.

 

Recovery involves major lifestyle changes. Abstinence doesn't.

 

Recovery involves developing a support group or system. Abstinence doesn't.

 

Recovery requires working on yourself and fixing what is broken. Abstinence doesn't.

 

See what I'm saying? It's about changing the way you look at yourself, and others, and your life.

 

 

...you explained this...

 

I think I'm moving from abstinence to recovery in my own situation...

 

Very well put!

[1AQUARIAN]

Thanks to all for your replys, I appreciate any insight that can be shared. I Do NOT feel my husband has started "recovering". He still has the same behaviors as far as the manipulation, anger....etc...We have been separated for three months now, and he just doesn't seem to want to accept reality that it is OVER! I have gone back and forth with things, but simply put.......I DO NOT TRUST HIM ONE BIT! And I seriously doubt we will get back together. He at one point a few weeks ago, said he would get an AA sponsor, go to substance abuse counseling, anger management, but as far as I can see he hasn't done any of this. I don't even think he goes to AA anymore! With us being apart, I don't know. and I try not to talk to him as then I have to listen to the cursing, yelling, trying to make me feel guilty, etc...

[Skeered]

Thanks to all for your replys, I appreciate any insight that can be shared. I Do NOT feel my husband has started "recovering". He still has the same behaviors as far as the manipulation, anger....etc...We have been separated for three months now, and he just doesn't seem to want to accept reality that it is OVER! I have gone back and forth with things, but simply put.......I DO NOT TRUST HIM ONE BIT! And I seriously doubt we will get back together. He at one point a few weeks ago, said he would get an AA sponsor, go to substance abuse counseling, anger management, but as far as I can see he hasn't done any of this. I don't even think he goes to AA anymore! With us being apart, I don't know. and I try not to talk to him as then I have to listen to the cursing, yelling, trying to make me feel guilty, etc...

 

Holy cow I swear you are married to my ex...but it's obviously just the similarties between most alcoholics. They think that just saying they will do these things will apease us...but plain and simple it doesn't once we finally see the forrest for the trees.

[1AQUARIAN]

Skeered- you have responded to my posts before and I really appreciate your replies! Yes, I am starting to learn how alcoholics see things in their own way. Lik I said, After three months of being separated I have seen basically NO change in him! My kids and his mother all tell me he is NOT drinking, but with the way he has behaved I seriously Doubt that is true! If you remember the last post I put in here, we were going to meet and talk. Well he again felt, "I had changed my mind" being I wanted to talk. But we discussed and "worked out" the divorce issues. (So I thought). He then came over the next day and again we talked. But he was all "lovey dovey" and saying "he will prove to me he has changed and win me back". Which I told him would make no difference at this point. But that I was going back and forth with what I wanted to do. I told him I am sorry if I am giving him mixed signals as I am NOT doing it on purpose, I just am struggling with things and what I want. (I seriously don't know where that came from, as I know I don't love him or trust. I think I am just trying to make him feel better).THEN, the next time I brought up if he had written anything down that we had talked about (about the divorce), he AGAIN lost it, and said "oh so we're back to divorce again?" That was a week ago, and I haven't heard from him since. Wandering if now, he's figuring if he is out of sight, the divorce is out of mind. I went yesterday to the courthouse to get the divorce papers...trying to figure if I can do this on my own or should just have a lawyer do the paperwork. It is quite overwhealming! I did see a lawyer who said if H and I can agree and do the paperwork, she can look it over for like $50. But, then I worry if I do it, something might be missed.....We have agreed on my staying in the house with my teens until they are both 18 and graduate from High school (three years) and then seel the house and divide the profit. But, I didn't see anything in the paperwork where that could be put. But then again, he SAID this a while back, and who knows he may change his mind.as he has done many times.....he goes from jeckyl to hyde in sometimes a day!

Problem is, Right now I just don't even want to talk to thim! As the conversations go to him yelling, cursing, making me feel guilty, and saying I haven't TRIED to save our marriage. The SAME broken record for the past several months of calls. And I always feel so bad after his calls. I want us to be friends if possible and actually TOLD him at one point.....wouldn't you rather we have a healthy friendship then an unhealthy marriage? and of course he just said, he wants more than friendship. So much damage has been done, he has pushed me away more and more but he doesn't see that. He just expects me to forgive and forget and "support him with his illness as he did with my depression years ago". He is actually COMPARING the two as equal!

It's constantly a rollarcoaster!

[Skeered]

Yes it can be overwhelming and quite a rollercoaster at first and I felt the same way with my divorce...however once you get going you will see how things just click along. As far as my divorce went...they were divided into packets (not sure how yours are) but in packet one..it pertained to custody of the kids, seperation of property, seperation of debt, and just the basic information about each person, the 2nd packet was service of papers, the 3rd was custody and support paperwork and then the 4th was, for me, default court because my XH didn't even read the paperwork.

 

As far as wanting to be friends I totally understand where you are coming from because the guilt trips they put you on are hell...however remember you are now making choices that reflect on the rest of YOUR life....so you do what you feel is best for the children first, then you and then him...he has an illness that he needs to fix on his own, you have tried to help and he hasn't been ready to accept his problem yet. Understand that he will throw at you everything to "win" you back, however you have to stand strong in knowing that you have done everything to help and not second guess yourself.

 

Right now if you start the divorce it's in your hands. If he's as much like my ex that I think he is...he will be lazy as far as it all goes and will realize that if he makes it easy on you, you will take his feelings and needs into consideration and get the divorce done. I paid a grand total of $254 for my whole divorce because he didn't argue one point. He does now but that's not my issue anymore.

 

best of luck to you and let me know if I can be of any help...

[1AQUARIAN]

SKEERED-

Yes, what I got was a packet that was dissolution of marriage with children and property. Then there was another one for temporty support. Even though support has not been a problem as he puts most of his check in the bank every week, I thought I should do this Just incase he decides NOT to be so nice after the process is started. But again like I said I may just have the lawyer "help" me.......There is a place about the house but I don't know HOW to put the "agreement" we have about me and the kids staying there until their both 18.....figured the lawyer would know this. I think no matter what I still will have to pay her for her additional time, but in the long run I think I'd feel better knowing I had someone representing me. The part I am NOT looking forward to is calling him AGAIN to "work out" this settlement thing. Afraid of dealing with Mr Hyde once again. Being we already discussed most of it...I may do the paper and have it served to him..I don't know. The only thing I added was continued support for me after the kids grow up and move out. I originally didn't discuss this with him, but the lawyer said after 25 years, I'm entitled to it. So, we'll see...Any ideas on how to present this to my H again???

[Skeered]

I originally didn't discuss this with him, but the lawyer said after 25 years, I'm entitled to it. So, we'll see...Any ideas on how to present this to my H again???

 

Honestly I don't think there is an easy way to present any of it to him...I think if you have representation then have the lawyer help you prepare it and then have him served...including all the things you want.

[Guest]

This is my first time reading LS. I am a recovering alcoholic. Absolutely, you should not take him back, unless you are prepared for the fact he may return to his drinking, and you accept that as the status quo.

 

No alcoholic will really try to get help until it is *their* decsion. No real change will come about no matter what happens, as long as they maintain their thinking. one of the most important things to realize, is it is their thinking that made them find a solution for their thinking. As long as they have not fixed their problems--or coped with them to be more accurate, a return to drinking is inevitable.

 

I am not exactly a fan of AA, but I have read the big book, and there is a lot of great reasoning there. I have drank my way out of an engagement, out of a job, and was nearly homeless. It was up to me to fix it, and then to fix the train wreck i left.

 

Only internal motivation can save him. Statisrticaly the odds are not good for any of us. This is something *he* has to want for himself. No amount of threats and negative consequences will disuade him so long as he feels like a bad boy being punished.

 

What I really have to ask you is, is this relationship worth saving even if he is sober? It turns out the relationship i lost from drinking really was not worth saving, and ironicaly I may have stayed in it *because* I was drinking, even though that's why she left me.

 

Consider that idea carefully.