catgirl1927 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 we are insecure from the minute we are born.we are scared we cant doing anything for ourselves.It depends how we grow up and who with to determine wether or not we carry on being scared or not. I don't think fear and insecurity is the same. I think insecurity comes from unfounded fears, though. They are related, not the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I meant if you are going to...sorry i dont want to get in an arguement about this. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Loook, people. This is like a dog chasing its tail. This is all speculation, AFAIK....at least I cited sources where you can go and read the information yourself. I hate it when people do that in a debate. that drives me crazy. Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Maybe she has a firm belief that you're not normal! :lmao: I'm just teasing. Just fannin' the flames, as it were... Yeah, that figures. Gotta make it personal, right? But seriously, I agree with her that the feelings have no real justification most of the time. Insecurity rooted in a real issue, like oh my gosh there's a bear that is about to eat me, isn't really insecurity, it's fear, and is useful because then you avoid the bears. It doesn't come from anyone else, you see a bear as a baby and it's going to give you pause because instinctually you know it's gonna eat ya. (Which makes me wonder about Teddy bears, what's up with that?) But I don't think babies naturally fear supermodels. Took me years to get there. Anyway, SERIOUSLY, I believe that FEAR is an innate emotion. It isn't something that is learned - it's instinct. And insecurity is a form of fear. Here's an example. Why are young children afraid of the dark? Are they *taught* to be afraid of the dark or is there some primal reason for their fear? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 not all children are afraid of the dark. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 exactly! Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 we are insecure from the minute we are born.we are scared we cant doing anything for ourselves.It depends how we grow up and who with to determine wether or not we carry on being scared or not. You should read up Erik Erikson "the 7 stages of man" if you haven't already. If you're doing psychology in the UK, I'll bet it'll be on your reading list at some point. That theory elaborates on what you're saying here. The first stage is basic trust versus basic mistrust...ie the small baby learns that its needs will be met (trust) but not necessarily immediately (mistrust). It's about learning to develop a good enough balance between optimism and pessimism, confidence and self doubt....all sorts of opposing states. The earlier in life you get that balance right, the easier it is to pass through future life stages. Some people spend their lives trying to reach a good enough balance, especially if traumatic early life events threw them off course. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I have a hard time accepting that some kind of baseless fear serves an evolutionary purpose. Something that has the power to paralyze a person into inaction is functional? I think it's like any other pathological excess of emotion. Anxiety. Hysteria. Depression. Link to post Share on other sites
catgirl1927 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I just don't think fear and insecurity are the same. We will have to agree to disagree. My posts are based purely on my opinion and personal experience. I fear being in the woods with a bear, because he will eat me. I am insecure about supermodels. Why? Because I am a crazy person. It's not a real fear, it's an insecurity based on my own hangups, which were generously passed on to me by my psychotic and evil mother. See what I'm saying? You guys are making claims, calling them facts, but they're not. Because you can't cite a source. Then B_O cites a source and you say she's attacking you. She's not. She and I are both trying to understand your point of view. Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 not all children are afraid of the dark. Of course. That is only one example. There are others... some children are afraid of snakes or spiders or *scary* faces... there are a myriad of things that can trigger fear. The question is... why are they afraid of those things IF they were not taught to be afraid of them? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 See Jung's work. Google "Archetype". Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Something that has the power to paralyze a person into inaction is functional? NO! Fear can compel people into action... ever see people flee things that are dangerous? Things they fear? Do you see them just standing there looking dumb? Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 See Jung's work. Google "Archetype". Ahh yes... the good 'ol Universal Archetypes. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I was thinking about the idea of a child, being afraid that they will not be fed or cared for. This is the whole attachment style thing I researched. If their needs are attended to and they are properly cared for, they develop normally. If their fears are fulfilled and the infant is neglected it affects their ability to form intimate relationships with anyone, thus the attachment disorder. An abnormal response. But by definition, insecurity is the pathological EXCESS of fear, and it's not based in reality. Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 If their needs are attended to and they are properly cared for, they develop normally. How the hell do you define *normally*? Are you privy to some knowledge on that? How about presenting the criteria for what is *normal*? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Google "attachment disorder" Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Babies are scared of other people though at first until they get to know them.They have a bond with there mothers but with there fathers they have to get to know them learn to trust them.As with other people they learn to trust people because they have there mothers around them they feel safe. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 And fear isn't the universal motivator. I can think of a BUNCH of psychological disorders that are extremely detrimental that are basically pathological excesses of baseless fear. PTSD is one, and I suffer from it myself, so I know exactly how debilitating that can be. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Babies are scared of other people though at first until they get to know them.They have a bond with there mothers but with there fathers they have to get to know them learn to trust them.As with other people they learn to trust people because they have there mothers around them they feel safe. That has to do with attachment style, which I did my senior thesis on. Intimately related to maternal investment, and the emotional health adn resilience of the mother. I concentrated specifically on unwed adolescent mothers, but it's true for all mother-child pairs. Google it. That is a reality-based fear, also. Infants are unable to care for themselves, and at those developmental stages it's important to be afraid of strangers. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 How the hell do you define *normally*? Are you privy to some knowledge on that? How about presenting the criteria for what is *normal*? Back from a Googling expedition, here's a list of developmental milestones. I suppose you would define normality in relation to how successfully a person has negotiated each of these milestones. Language development and use Self-care skills such as dressing, grooming, and toilet training Reduction in, or elimination of, tactile defensiveness Reduction in, or elimination of, hypersensitivities Normalized sleep patterns Increase in, or use of, appropriate eye contact Interest in, and development of, peer friendships Learning and relationship skills, such as the ability to listen, focus and respond Interest in, and normalized interaction with, toys and games Development of imaginative and reciprocal play. Bloody hell. Looking through this I think I have some tactile defensiveness. Otter, I need some therapy please. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Maybe im studying pyschology yes but just because you have been through the course and passed it doesnt mean that you know everything to do with human nature /nurture.Humans have and always will be different you can only give opinions here it isnt truth.People change and evolve.Pyschology has been about studying a percentage of people so it doesnt always mean that it is right.we will never know what is right. Infants are unable to care for themselves.Yes everyone knows that.So we try to make sure they grow up in the way we see fit even though it isnt always right. Psychologists can try as hard as they want try and understand humans but they never will because we are all different and we cannot feel the way other people feel. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Maybe im studying pyschology yes but just because you have been through the course and passed it doesnt mean that you know everything to do with human nature /nurture.Humans have and always will be different you can only give opinions here it isnt truth.People change and evolve.Pyschology has been about studying a percentage of people so it doesnt always mean that it is right.we will never know what is right. Infants are unable to care for themselves.Yes everyone knows that.So we try to make sure they grow up in the way we see fit even though it isnt always right. Psychologists can try as hard as they want try and understand humans but they never will because we are all different and we cannot feel the way other people feel. Who are you arguing with? Where did I say I know everything? What's happening? Who am I? And yes, the jesuit concept of the human's relationship with God as Joyce said, "Always striving, never reaching"... yet, that somehow does not discount the striving, does it? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Back from a Googling expedition, here's a list of developmental milestones. I suppose you would define normality in relation to how successfully a person has negotiated each of these milestones. Language development and use Self-care skills such as dressing, grooming, and toilet training Reduction in, or elimination of, tactile defensiveness Reduction in, or elimination of, hypersensitivities Normalized sleep patterns Increase in, or use of, appropriate eye contact Interest in, and development of, peer friendships Learning and relationship skills, such as the ability to listen, focus and respond Interest in, and normalized interaction with, toys and games Development of imaginative and reciprocal play. Bloody hell. Looking through this I think I have some tactile defensiveness. Otter, I need some therapy please. Sorry, Lindya. I have hypersenitivities and I feel hurt and betrayed that you would ask me that. wheeeee! Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Sorry, Lindya. I have hypersenitivities and I feel hurt and betrayed that you would ask me that. wheeeee! Oh no! This indicates that my peer interaction skills have fallen by the wayside, and may be a sign that I need to rediscover the art of play. Tomorrow I'll buy myself a Barbie doll as that should assist me to get back on that long and winding road towards normality. Though it must be said that Barbie's proportions might not help my body image insecurities. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Oh no! This indicates that my peer interaction skills have fallen by the wayside, and may be a sign that I need to rediscover the art of play. Tomorrow I'll buy myself a Barbie doll as that should assist me to get back on that long and winding road towards normality. Though it must be said that Barbie's proportions might not help my body image insecurities. Well I'm off like a prom dress. I'm going to develop my imaginative and reciporcal play. Link to post Share on other sites
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