Im Going Mad!

[Solidus]

So i have this friend whos a girl.We always flirt and get on really well in fact were very "couply". On fri night i was out on a date with another girl and my friend sent me a text asking if i was ok.This other girl got the text and told her to leave me alone.My friend went mad and told her to get lost and "how dare she just walk in when she cares for me and is my best friend",she seemed really really angry. I was really drunk and started telling my friend i loved her by text.She replied with "tell that to your date!".Then she said awwww just one more week of classes then you will have the whole summer of me"!. The next morning she sent me a text saying "i got your texts saying i love you,is your date still talking to you?". I laughed it off by saying oh i must have said that by mistake because i was so drunk.The girl i was seeing was supposed to come up to my house and meet my family,now that weve split,my friend said "ill come up and meet them instead". Problem is i do love my friend romantically,i dont know what to do,is she interested in me or does she just like the attention,i really dont know.l........oh and i forgot to say my friend has a boyfriend who is a complete d***.

[tikigods]

You friend has a chioce to be with that guy or not. To me it sounds like you need to make a new friend cause this girl will try to ruin every relationship you get in. I think she likes all of the attention you give her, and she is going to want to keep that and you on a string while she dates her boyfriend.

 

Make new friends

[aleatoryd]

So your friend gets you as a second boyfriend to treat her well, and everything else and she doesn't have to do anything for you except text you when you are on a date. IF she likes you she needs to ditch her guy. Ask her if you can have his number so you can text him that it's over between him and her and see how she reacts. Okay not quite that far! But if she really likes you she will get him out the picture.

 

1) She's going to stay with her b/f and is using you for the emotional attention and being treated right - you fill the gap where the b/f isn't paying her attention but you're just a substitute.

 

2) She actually does like you

 

I really hope it's 2) but you'll never know unless you force the issue a little with jokes about her b/f like the one above of you dumping him. If she isn't interested in you she won't want you messing up her relationship with her b/f. Funny how you mention him last and as a complete d*** is that your words or hers? Be careful you aren't a bit of fun for her. Good luck.

[MadDog]

oh and i forgot to say my friend has a boyfriend who is a complete d***.

 

I like how you had a whole long story and I was just about to say, "Go for it. I think she's interested in you" and then you blow it by "forgetting to say" she has a boyfriend.

 

A girl with a boyfriend is like a hooker with an STD, at least when it comes to getting with them. You don't really want to get with either unless you're ready for some drama and pain. Why not simply wait for her to break up with him? If he's that much of a dick, I'm sure it's a matter of time, right?

[Solidus]

Im totally baffled by whats going on.Am i correct in saying this?.When you really like someone you get angry with them and shout at them and they really annoy you?.Today i had a big fight with her. She was mocking me saying "oh you love me,you sent me the texts telling me". I said to her "oh i tell everyone i love them when im drunk".She went mad and her face looked really sad and angry.She said "im so nice to you and all you can do is throw everything back in my face,are you too dumb to realise you hurt my feelings?".All this is from me saying i tell everyone i love them when im drunk.Then she was a calling me a complete di** etc and was really angry with me.She accused me of playing games with people feelings she didnt say with hers though.If i had a friend whom i just liked as a friend i wouldnt get so upset by saying "oh i tell everyone i love them when im drunk",would you?.She keeps saying shes really upset because i dont want her as a friend but how can you be so annoyed and upset by that unless you have feelings for someone,no?????..Oh and shes said stuff like "im not going to marry my boyfriend or move in with him" and on Monday she said "im going out with a crazy guy".But then she will totally contradict herself by saying oh i would spend the rest of my life with him.Im totally confused.

 

To be brutal,ive got to spend the next two years of my life with her virtually everyday because im in the same class as her but if i wasnt i dont know if id speak to her again im so upset about the whole thing.In fact we were moaning at each other so much today that someone said "when we come back to classes in September,you two are going to be married!.

[aleatoryd]

Arguments - confused feelings. Sounds like something is going on. I suspect she's comfortable in her relationship with her current b/f but is thinking what might happen if she is with you. The thing is if she is "using" you for affection and doesn't care then she'll blow you off. Part of me thinks it's a situation with potential just because you get under her skin!

 

It was probably a good job you told her the line about "telling everyone I love them when I'm drunk". It sounds odd but if you said you did love her then the game would be over. She sounds like the kind of girl who secretly wants to fight with you because she is confused. It's obvious why it upset her because with one line you devalued her entire "oh you love me..." line. Now she'll be wondering.

 

Stand your ground because until she decides what she wants she is emotionally unstable - she'll like you one minute a lot and then next time treat you like nothing. At the worst you talk it through with her if it looks like the friendships going under but NOTHING can happen unless she decides being with you would be better than her current b/f. And don't imagine for an instance that he really is that bad. You are someone she's been able to let out her frustrations with but you not her "girl friend" so be a man and give it time and space.

 

Oh and if you want to really stir things up carry on dating other girls. Don't "use" them just spend time with others. If she just wants attention she'll probably stay with her b/f. If she does like you then she'll get jealous and you get another chance at resolving this b/f issue.

 

Remember boyfriend = unavailable

[Solidus]

Thats great advice alleatroyd.

She is naturally a flirty person but with me it seems different as she gets angry with me snd seems really annoyed,i definitely get under her skin though as we seem to always argue or stupidly fight. Im playing a very very cool game.One minute ill say i like her,the next i criticise or act totally disintersted as i look at other girls etc.

She gives me big come on signals

.Last year when i was going out with someone she sent me a text saying "dump her and have me instead...hahaha".Ive caught her staring at me then when i look at her sher looks away immediately embarrassed.She tried to make her boyfriend fight with me and tells him i say things about him.A few months back she cornered me drunk and put her arms around my neck saying "i really really like you"she was kissing me on the cheeck too at the time but her friends came and pulled her away as she was really really drunk.She also tells me a lot she really cares about me.Its funny,when i meet new girls shes always overly interested saying "is it serious" and she'll always find faults with them,either they're ugly or too young or too old. As you said her boyfriend is there but its been two years of this cr** now and im getting sick of playing games.

[MadDog]

Oh and shes said stuff like "im not going to marry my boyfriend or move in with him" and on Monday she said "im going out with a crazy guy".But then she will totally contradict herself by saying oh i would spend the rest of my life with him.Im totally confused.

 

Hold your horses right there partner. This is a huge red flag. I would strongly suggest never getting involved with a girl like her. In addition to the fact that she has a boyfriend, she sounds like one of those totally unstable chicks. One minute they hate their boyfriend, the next they love him, then they hate him again.

 

Way too much drama to have any kind of stable relationship with her anyway. I question whether this guy is really that bad or she paints the picture that way. In either case, I'd steer clear of her aside from a friendship and a casual one at that.

 

Bottom line: you're dealing with an all-star drama queen.

[aleatoryd]

As you said her boyfriend is there but its been two years of this cr** now and im getting sick of playing games.

 

Sounds to me like you are doing things well. She is being confused and you don't have to make any commitments to her. You don't owe her anything and in the end she'll have to decide how much she likes you. Keep it up and remember until she drops the b/f it's no go area. You have to make her really wonder how much better you'd be than her b/f. 2 years is a long time to put up with this situation and if she doesn't want you then you can find someone who does.

 

From the signs she's giving she does like you but she wants to have you and the b/f. She probably craves maximum attention. If you get really "serious" with another girl and tell her how wonderful she is - even better if you manufactured a situation without hurting someones feelings as you don't want to use another girl. But anyway tell her how wonderful a "ficticious/made up" girl you "met" while out and when her bubble bursts as she gets jealous see how much she wants to fight for your attention.

 

After all just as the b/f is a problem to you she'd flip if you have a g/f and she's no longer the centre of attention. Girls try harder when they think the guy isn't crazy for them - like they suddenly lost all the charms and attraction and DO NOT give in to her easily - no suddenly declaring your love for her or other wimpy stuff. I think you already know how to play this game... win or lose don't wait another 2 years. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Solidus]

Oh God,ive had enough!.After class today she asked me if i wanted to come out with her and her friends on Sunday night.I said "no probably not"(bare in mind that we dont really hang out a lot after class together so that was quite daring of her to ask me), she said "oh are you washing your hair"(is that not what someone says when you turn them down for a date?) then she said will i see you again this summer?,will we hang out together?as this was our last class till September.I said i dont know probably not,just to play it cool.Then i started talking about how i text everyone when im drunk telling them i love them and how much im an idiot for doing that cos i dont mean it.

Then all the class went for a drink.She sat and flirted with this guy(who has a longterm girlfriend) all the way through and barely looked or talked to me she said to me "oh you look bored",i felt like a third wheel!,i think i must have looked sad because im sure she could see it.This is only a week after she said to me" oh you're the only one i care about in the class" now she was coming onto another guy????!?!?!?

.In the end i just got up and left them to it,i felt they were going to start sunddenly kissing and i felt like crying!.

I think ive had enough now part of me says text her and say "are you still going out on Sunday,ill come with you" but another part says just completely forget it and dump her completely.

Im not sure if shes just flirting outrageously with other guys in front of me cos i turned her down for Sunday but then again maybe shes just attention seeking from me.What do i do now?....altreoyd?.

[aleatoryd]

Well there's only really one choice left to you. You have to hit the nail on the head. Don't just go on this Sunday night thing. You and her need to have a one on obe talk and clear up this thing now. Part of me would suggest waiting til after the Sunday thing so she still knows you aren't giving in. I think she's pissed because she knows you've been acting differently.

 

The thing is there's 2 things here

 

1) She is trying to make you jealous flirting with other guys

 

or

 

2) Because you won't give her attention she decided to get it off someone else

 

Part of me thinks 1) is more likely because she deliberately "oh you look bored" as a point to get at you specifically.

 

I think if you said "are you still going out on Sunday,ill come with you" then you'd look like you're prepared to let her walk all over you. That would be weakness. If she is manipulationg you then that would be victory for her and she'd know she can get to you. So instead you should find out where they are going out on Sunday night. Then you turn up. If she asks "what you are doing here" just say you changed your mind or even better "washing my hair didn't take as long as I thought it would" something sharp and witty like that - showing you are still independent, you aren't bothered by her actions the other night. That sort of thing.

 

If you have to role play that you couldn't care less about her - but don't say anything which could be taken the wrong way. Here's a line "I figured if I get drunk I could text you I love you... what do you think?" or something along that line. Joking and it'll hopefully diffuse the whole situation with the text message. Depending on how things go you'll probably be able to assess her reaction to you coming out... and if you have fun... flirt and enjoy yourself then you reopen the I like you signals. Trust me the on-off is going to be driving her mad. The thing is that if a guy says "I love you" when sober the girl tends to freak out so here you get to test the situation out.

 

If you have to contact her to tell her you are coming out (I realise sometimes it's easier just to tell someone you are coming out with them for a night out especially if you can't find out their plans otherwise) Well anyway if you have to call her and use a variation of "I don't think my hair needs washing that much". It's vital that you keep the options to spend summer together open. Oh by the way where's her b/f in all this? Doesn't he have a social life? How long have they been going out and what's their history? I have to wonder if she hasn't just gone out with him to get to you. Seems odd he's out of the picture but without more info I doubt anyone could make any guesses.

[Solidus]

You know,you should become an agony uncle,you're advice is brilliant,you're a star!..

 

Can you tell me this though?.Theres been so many times she has wanted to meet my family,she has said "im getting in with them". All the things she has said to me,shes tried to get me out to the cinema alone, the almost freaking out when i told her i only told her i loved her cos i was drunk etc etc,theres definitely something not right here is there?i really cant be bothered hanging around a girl if all im getting out of it is a best friend!........lol,but you know what i mean.Ive got other girls who are friends and im not interested in them and they dont do anything like this?.

 

She met her boyfriend 2 years ago,2 months bfore she met me.She does see him a lot and texts him all the time. Ive met him a few times and hes very strange.Hes quite ugly and wont talk to anyone he completely ignores me and wont talk to me (shes said he feels threatened by me). She told me when she first met him she didnt fancy him but she was drunk and snogged him and it went from there.Threy always seem to be arguing or fighting.A few months ago she turned round and said to me "i almost broke up with him last night,im sick of his funny moods and ways" but she said it in a very pointed way.On Wed after i told her i only said i loved her cos i was drunk i said to her "youre only going wout with him cos u cant get anyone else".She was annoyed and said "if i wanted someone else id get them. Then she went onto accuse me of playing with peoples feelings (i dont know if she meant hers or not but she seemed upset). Shes trying to meet me again tomorrow but im playing it very cool saying maybe/maybe not i think ill text her on sat to see if shes going on Sunday but say oh ive nothing better to do then take it from there.

[aleatoryd]

Can you tell me this though?.Theres been so many times she has wanted to meet my family,she has said "im getting in with them". All the things she has said to me,shes tried to get me out to the cinema alone, the almost freaking out when i told her i only told her i loved her cos i was drunk etc etc,theres definitely something not right here is there?i really cant be bothered hanging around a girl if all im getting out of it is a best friend!........lol,but you know what i mean.Ive got other girls who are friends and im not interested in them and they dont do anything like this?.

 

It sounds to me like she has strong feelings for you - I don't know if it's love because only she knows that. Her actions suggest that she wants to spend her time with you alone and not with her boyfriend. When people drink we let down our barriers and sometimes some of our feelings are let out. The thing is for us to do things when drunk there must be something there. Her flirting even with different guys is just staged for you. So I wouldn't say she is an attention seeker she is looking for positive affirmation that you feel something for her.

 

What is she like around you? If she seems to hang on every word you say, play with her hair and ocaisonally brush past you or touch you on the arm - something like that those physical contact signs indicate she likes you. If she talks about seeing your family and hanging with you over summer again this makes it likely she wants to be with you. Her freaking out and reactions are her defensive response because you've managed to keep your cool. She is probably desperate to find out how you feel about her. The perfect moment is some time together when you go out on Sunday.

 

While it seems naive that she doesn't know you like her back - I mean to a lot of people by playing it cool they still tend to know you like them. It's that kind of flirty fun that says "hey I find you attractive but I'm in no way desperate to be with you". I strongly caution you against telling her you LOVE her but I think it's time to turn up the heat. You've been cold and it's worked pretty well. Now you want to move it to the "I like you" phase. It's like fishing (not that I've ever enjoyed freezing my ass off lol!) you've baited the hook and it's time to start reeling in.

 

There are ways to show you are into someone without saying it directly. Conversation and chatting. Buy her a drink. Treat her really nice. Why? Well appart from the fact that you do care about her this tells her that you would treat her well and you are interested in her as a person. The problem with acting too cold is that eventually the other person thinks you are a jerk or not the guy she thought you were. But we have to play it cool otherwise they run a mile!

 

It's a fine balance of the two seen time and time again. I remember when all they guys at college were chasing this girl and she enjoyed their company as friends but confided in me that she hated being "chased" by so many guys who may be nice guys but were treating her like all they wanted to know was her body... they weren't really getting to know her as a person. Sure they thought they were trying to be friends and then move it to a relationship but by coming on too strong they just put her off. Then eventually another guy I didn't even know that well came into the picture. They've been together for 7 years now. She went with him because she knew he wasn't just desperate to go out with a hot girl but he wanted her and wasn't the type of guy who just chases every hot girl.

 

See what happened there? The other guys they made it clear by their actions (even if they deny it) that they just wanted to be with a "hot" girl, any girl. The way they competed for her attention was actually a turn off. The dumb thing is they should have realised it didn't look like they were serious - long term material. She wasn't looking for a fling. The thing to remember is that the girl chooses the guy. Nothing we can do will make them suddenly develop feelings for us.

 

So after playing it cool and showing you are not desperate, you demonstate what a nice guy you would be if she had you. The show her what she's missing and by flirting and showing her attention you give her the signal that you are attainable. You see by being cool you've made her think does he like me? He's turning down opportunities to be with me? If she likes you she'll be worried of losing you. So now the bait is letting her know that she hasn't lost her chance. It makes her realise she will have to be more proactive in getting you.

 

Think of it like negotiation. You're saying "I like you but I don't need you so what are you going to do to convince me I need you?" She's thinking "I think I want this guy but he doesn't seem into me". Then you act flirtacious and show you may like her. So she's thinking is he coming onto me and does he like me. So you meet on Sunday have a great time, dance with her, hold her and IF and ONLY IF it seems like you are both into the moment you whisper "I do love you" or something less corny. Then because it is in that situation it's like stepping up and up a ladder to get somewhere the nearer you get to your objective the less you have to reach out and the less likely you are of overstretching and falling off. So basically Sunday you are building towards a that moment.

 

You have to do it this way because it's a natural progression. If she is ever going to take you up on the idea that you are the one for her she has to believe that this is the one time when she can really have you. Oh and you have to make it obvious that this isn't a one off or drunk thing on your part. So Sunday night you aren't out to make her jealous or flirt with anyone else or act cold. You are doing your best to sell her the idea of what she could get. Because it is so different (opposite) to the way you have acted recently it makes the effect even greater.

 

It's possible she may ask you what's gotten into you and why are you acting so different. This is where you still keep a little cool - not mean cold buy just calm and witty. If you'd been drinking just reply "I think it was three pints and a chaser" whatever you've been drinking. Or you say "What do you mean don't I always treat you nice?" You have to do it with a smile and show you confident but NOT arrogant. Cocky is good but you have to counteract it with humour otherwise you just sound like an a**h***. I've had to learn this through practice.

 

I'm going through a "cocky" stage with some of my female friends. I'm not really into them which helps as it's just useful time to experiment without emotional feelings. Don't get me wrong it's not to hurt peoples feelings or lead them on. Cockiness and being witty are important in most friendships so long as you don't act like you take yourself seriously. Also avoid at all costs bull$hitting and being sarcastic. Sarcasm is where you take the mickey out of someone else and it doesn't impress. The only decent sarcasm is where you make it clear you don't really think like that and you kind of shrug. Basically you inject humour into the situation.

 

I deliver it with a smile and humour. Remember a smile is not just the mouth - it's that feeling when you feel your whole face being happy - like a radiant shine (not sweaty and greasy!) where you make it obvious that it's how you are looking at them not the words that count. Around 70% of communication is non verbal so body language, facial expressions count a lot more than the words (30% or less I forget the statistic).

 

Okay so the boyfriend.

 

She met her boyfriend 2 years ago,2 months bfore she met me.She does see him a lot and texts him all the time. Ive met him a few times and hes very strange.

 

The problem is that whether you think he's strange or not there must be a reason why she's stayed with him for so long. I can put my finger on one possible reason but you can't take anything here as fact. It's advice based on what it could be. Basically we don't really know we can only guess! It is entirely possible that she doen't want to leave him because she likes the security of a relationship. Many people are like this. I have friends like this and it's the same for guys and girls. They are scared of being alone and look for some reassurance that thy are loved.

 

People often go out with and stay with the wrong person because of this. Sure they know that the other person isn't right for them but just knowing a person care for them makes them stay. It's a dependenxy of sorts. Let's think of it as she met a guy and they started going out. Maybe during the first few months there was the honeymoon stage when people get all the butterfly feelings in their stomach. Ironically around the same time as the affects of this was wearing off she met you.

 

Now there must be something about you which has made her become so attached to you. I hate to say it but some women (and one of my male friends does the same) like to keep a close member of the opposite sex around. You fulfil their emotional needs where their partner fails and in a way highlight what is wrong with their b/f or g/f. The thing is sometimes they fall for the friend over their current partner. You see she met you when she wasn't single so there was no chance of you "falling for her" so you were safe because she is attached. That is a lie to herself that it's okay to get close to you.

 

However then this dependency thing kicks in. As much as she likes you she is probably scared that you won't feel the same about her. She won't leave the security for the unknown - so it's her b/f or nothing. This is where you are at the moment. She's testing to see how you feel about her. She probably wants to be your g/f and it probably drives her crazy that you are free and single and could easily go out with someone else. Only in her logic she can't see that the biggest problem between you and her is that she already has a b/f.

 

It's crazy logic but she can't go out with you because she has a b/f but can't dump him because she doesn't know whether you like her that way and you can't do anything because she hasn't dumped her b/f. So you could just go round and round in circles and no ones happy. This is why you have to break the cycle but obviously you are risking the status quo. You don't know if she will pick you over the b/f. But it's better to know than wait 2 more years and watch her marry this guy, have children and know that it should be you married to her and they should be your children. Oh I'm not speaking from personal experience on the marriage kids thing LOL! I'm just painting the picture of what you don't want the next 2, 5, 10... years to end up as.

 

So you are only left with the one choice we all get - take your best shot, walk away or live with it. Only no one wants to be thinking "what if?" or "if only" for the rest of their lives and only a coward walks away so you only have one option.

 

Hes quite ugly and wont talk to anyone he completely ignores me and wont talk to me (shes said he feels threatened by me). She told me when she first met him she didnt fancy him but she was drunk and snogged him and it went from there.

 

Whether the guys ugly doesn't mean anything. To most mature women it's the personality and not looks that count. I think copious amounts of alcohol compensate for that anyway! That was a joke I would NEVER advocate getting anyone drunk - that's just taking advantage and is for users and abusers. The fact that he won't talk to you doesn't mean much at all. Well okay it suggests a lack of good manners and a defficient personality...

 

It's not important what he feels i.e. whether he feels threatened by you. The question to ask is should he feel threatened by you? Is there a reason? (rhetorical question) By telling you that "he feels threatened" she is actually implying that there is a possibility she would leave this guy for you. So I guess yes it gives the guy a reason to feel threatened but it actually a comment about her and not him.

 

Cheesy response would have been "why do you think he has a reason to feel threatened?" (grin) - but cheesy time is over.

 

Threy always seem to be arguing or fighting.A few months ago she turned round and said to me "i almost broke up with him last night,im sick of his funny moods and ways" but she said it in a very pointed way.

 

They do this. It's usually called breaking up and making up. In this case it doesn't sound like they have a healthy relationship. I guess it depends what they are arguing about. You could have said "I don't know why you stay with him" or "I'd never treat a girlfriend like that" - here you'd be conveying the subliminal message that you'd treat her better (without saying "dump him and have me" which would just make you look like a loser).

 

The problem is that women talk about their cr*p relationships and probably have fantasies about what it would be lie with a different guy. It is inevitable that at some point and probably often her mind has imagined what it would be like to be with you. That doesn't mean she'd definitely leave you for him. People freak out when fantasy (even their fantasy) becomes real. It like overloads them.

 

On Wed after i told her i only said i loved her cos i was drunk i said to her "youre only going wout with him cos u cant get anyone else".She was annoyed and said "if i wanted someone else id get them.

 

Of course she was annoyed... whatever she feels or doesn't feel for her b/f all women (and guys) like the feeling that someone likes them. It doesn't make them want to go out with them. As for what she said it's clear that isn't the case. If her actions towards you mean anything then she is trying to get someone and failing - you. She is probably pretty frustrated at this hence the throw away line. I would have probably said "yeah you could if you get them drunk enough" but that would probably have made her exlode. You see sometimes cocky is good but there is a fine line between cocky and cruel. I hope you can see the difference.

 

Then she went onto accuse me of playing with peoples feelings (i dont know if she meant hers or not but she seemed upset). Shes trying to meet me again tomorrow but im playing it very cool saying maybe/maybe not i think ill text her on sat to see if shes going on Sunday but say oh ive nothing better to do then take it from there.

 

She's obviously talking about her feelings unless you have a reputation for playing with peoples feelings that you haven't mentioned. Be very careful how you finish this business. As I wrote at the top of this post you need to play things exactly right or she will go back to her b/f and you lose. That doesn't mean my advice is perfect. What you say and do exactly has to be from you and it has to be natural - you're not a parrot lol!

 

If you think there is a danger that you've been too cold and could be harming the potential for a relationship then you speed your timetable up. Whatever you do don't blow your hand and just dive in with "I love you... I've loved you for years..." that just makes her freak out and run even if it is what she wants to hear. Why? Because you need to build up to the moment and take it. Good luck.

[Solidus]

Thanks Altroyd,you're a star! at the end of the day,i dont want another best friend,ive got plenty of friends.If i blow the friendship outta the water by coming onto her then so be it,thats life,move on.Its time to move up a gear.

[Solidus]

Hey altroyd, well for the latest edition.

 

I was supposed to meet her for a job we were both going for today,i went for the interview earlier than i was supposed to with her and then text her saying i had the job and laughing. She went mental and sent me about 5 texts at once saying "youre a complete di**" and "i actually hate you,why do you hurt me so much?,you're not supposed to do that to your best friend" etc etc . I replied by saying "you hurt me too". Then she said "at times you're the nicest guy in the world and really caring and then at others you're a complete di**". Now im actually a di** with her because im playing with her!. In the middle of all this i dropped in that i was meeting a girl for a drink tonight,which i am.

 

The thing that worries me the most here is that i said to her "im a dick for a reason ive got problems but i cant tell you",the problem being her!. She started going on and on about how i could tell her becuase she was my best friend and i kept on saying no im not telling you. She was like you can tell friends everything!.

This really really worries me and makes me think ive fallen into the "friends zone". I dont get it,im certain she was giving me signals all the things she said but now she keeps coming out with this friends thing oh no!,thats bad!.

[aleatoryd]

You need to slow down with the being cold and start with the hot. I think you've wound her up enough that she now knows something is up. Any more playing cool will just end up forcing her away. Like I said earlier the whole thing is about balance. You probably need to apologise and tell her you'll come out Sunday. At times like this it's not wussy to apologise. The point of the exercise was to show you are "not interested in her" so she would get jealous. Now I think she's starting to think you are a complete di** which is bad.

 

The bad thing you've done is tell her "im a dick for a reason ive got problems but i cant tell you". Look at that line it sounds immature and emotionally unstable. It's going to be difficult now because when you tell her that you like her (which you will be doing on Sunday) you're revealing how much she got to you. I'm not too sure about this best friend/friend zone thing. If that's where she's put you she has an extreme way of treating friends. Your advantage is that she does care for you and will forgive you. At least she knows that she hurt you. Maybe she'll be able to work out why.

 

"Now im actually a di** with her because im playing with her!. In the middle of all this i dropped in that i was meeting a girl for a drink tonight,which i am." Yeah the player doesn't like a taste of their own medicine. I don't think she's being a drama queen or just attention seeking. The way she's reacted has been genuine hurt and anger. I think what's happened is that she wanted to meet up with you - probably has been trying since you last saw her (flirting with some other guy). If she has any sense she knows how much she upset you doing that. Though sometimes girls live in denial and "don't know" they are affecting us that way. I don't know if it's because they are naive or because they feel less guilty for it.

 

Okay - going out with another girl for a drink was to show her you have many options and don't have to be with her. IF you tell her that you really like her etc then she'll realise you were only interested in her and while that might boost her ego it could make you look like a jerk. That is why I'm advising you to find a situation like Sunday night when you can get close enough to her to be really nice but not appear desperate. I guess you better go through with your drink with the girl tonight. 1) You may actually like her and 2) It'll look suspicious if you don't. If you do cancel it is because you didn't think she was your type - that way it's because of the girl not you.

 

In fact that's a good reason anyway if she ask's what happened tonight you ould tell her that and then she might ask you what your type is. From now on until Sunday you have to be this:

 

"at times you're the nicest guy in the world and really caring"

 

AND NOT

 

"and then at others you're a complete di**"

 

She's had enough of you being a di** and any more and she will write you off. So make sure you really are the nicest guy ever and if she asks you a direct question it may be worth being completely (* well almost) honest about how you feel. After all when they ask YOU a question they may get answers they don't like but you're going to have to tell her anyway.

 

The alternative to the above advice is that you go for it tonight. You cancel your date and ask her out for a drink. She'll know immediately that something is up. You guys have a few drinks and flirt and you enjoy each others company. She'll ask you lots of questions and you have to explain how you feel - but build up to it. This can work but is very dangerous. You have to be careful what you say and how you act but if you are really nice and say stuff playfully like "you know I only actually texted you that I love you" or something like that she might wake up to how you feel.

 

"I dont get it,im certain she was giving me signals all the things she said but now she keeps coming out with this friends thing oh no!,thats bad!."

 

You're running out of time. She's going to stick you in the di**s bin if you're not careful. You went slightly too far with the cool thing. Now she's thinking "who is this guy" and "what happened to the nice guy I knew". The only good thing here is she may be is realising she's losing you. The bad thing again is she's not sure who you are anymore. So if you play hot - flirt, nice, show her attention then she'll be like he's acting all different. The quicker you finish this thing and create a way to show her how you feel the better. I really hope it goes well for you. Keep us updated.

[Solidus]

Hwy altroyd,sorry to keep going on but you'r advice is brill!.

 

So i saw her today for the first time since last Wed. She was funny at first and told our mutual friends what i did to her on Fri (not meeting her for the interview and jokingly how i was a di**). Over the weekend i sent her a "hug ecard" and she said how i could be so so so nice.

 

So anyway,today she started going "oh do you like my new jeans and then do you like my new top,it shows of my boobs really well" and kind of showing me her boobs (thats flirting isnt it?,i m not that sure when a girl does it with me!). I was like "eh i dont normally see what you wear eh yeah i guess so". Now ive seen her doing this with quite a few guys that she knows fancy her so i dont take it to mean that much. Then i was telling our friend how she sent me those texts on Fri saying she hated me etc etc. Our friend said "what is it with you two,your always fighting". When our friend said this,the girl i fancy looked as if she knew what was goin on,there was a kind of half smile half "knowing" look on her face.

 

I was teling her about how my date on fri never text me back as she asked me how it went.I told her how i was really nice and charming and funny etc.She said -"well,she must be crazy not to text you back then".

 

 

About half an hour later she started saying again "do you really not like this top?,i think its really really flattering".I immediately laughed and said to her "what is it with you???",she laughed and went "nothing!".

 

Then the most bizzare thing!.I didnt meet her on Sunday night. She started saying how her and her bf and bfs friend were all out on Sun night.She said her bfs friend bought her bf drinks all night and how to thank him she was going to buy him a present.I was like "oh ok".Then she was like i need it wrapped too. I said why are you doing that?,she said oh to make my bf suspicious?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?.

 

I said "what?!?!?!?" why do you want to make your bf suspicious?. She said oh just as a joke. I said to her "thats disgusting,you've been going out for 2 years and your doing that to him,you must be have low self esteem and be insecure in your relationship to do that!" She got really angry and said "i dont,youre talking rubbish,i would just do it for a laugh",to me you wouldnt do that to the person you loved?!?!?!"She ended up not buying this guy a present but she was trying to get me to go and buy it with her.

 

Im really annoyed with her now,shes either a manipulative wee "c**" who likes attention or shes trying to play me. I think maybe because she gets angry with me and i get under her skin shes trying to play me but im really not sure.

 

Im definitely going to get her out for a drink now and say to her "whats going on here" for me things are just bubbling under the surface and its really annoying,i cant be bothered with it.If she is just looking for attention then to be honest i dont want to know her as a friend if thats the kind of person she is.If she says she really really cares about me then tries to get my attention and flirts away,what kind of person is that as that could really hurt me!?.

[aleatoryd]

Sorry Solidus. I wrote you a reply on the 4th but it doesn't seem to have posted. Got my Finals at the moment so pretty darn busy! I'll try and remember what I said...

 

So i saw her today for the first time since last Wed. She was funny at first and told our mutual friends what i did to her on Fri (not meeting her for the interview and jokingly how i was a di**). Over the weekend i sent her a "hug ecard" and she said how i could be so so so nice.

 

I'm assuming the situation may have changed/developed since then but I'll reply as normal and you can update me afterwards. Well she's seeing your nice side again and you being a di** isn't too serious. The only thing is that she calls her b/f that as well so I wonder if its just a playful term she has as in she'll say it but only to moan and she's not serious when she calls people a di**.

 

So anyway,today she started going "oh do you like my new jeans and then do you like my new top,it shows of my boobs really well" and kind of showing me her boobs (thats flirting isnt it?,i m not that sure when a girl does it with me!). I was like "eh i dont normally see what you wear eh yeah i guess so". Now ive seen her doing this with quite a few guys that she knows fancy her so i dont take it to mean that much. Then i was telling our friend how she sent me those texts on Fri saying she hated me etc etc. Our friend said "what is it with you two,your always fighting". When our friend said this,the girl i fancy looked as if she knew what was goin on,there was a kind of half smile half "knowing" look on her face.

 

What do yo mean by kinda showing you her boobs. There's no kinda in flashing your breasts - not to me or any other normal guy! My only concern is that sometimes that's just a very cheap move by a girl to get a guy really damn well. It's not normal "flirting" as such - well it tends to be a sign of getting attention or insecurity. If it's getting attention and she only does it to you thenit may make you feel special but you don't want to be the "buddy".

 

Trust me it's not a good thing if you are the friend who they are happy to show parts of their body off if it's "you can look but you can't touch" - there's plenty of magazines/films out there for that kind of "need". I'd be careful you're not being strung along. Women know how to use their sexuality. I have two sisters and one of them has queues of men falling over their feet for her attention. The problem is she plays them. Once you start to understand this and talk it through with a female who will be honest with you, thenyou start to learn their game, and trust me it is a very complicated game.

 

Just because a girl keeps you on a hook doesn't mean she likes you more than a friend. Remember I mentioned fishing? Well girls do the same. By acting cold and not interested you were looking like you might get away so by turning on the sex factor she's pulled you back in. That doesn't mean she doesn't like you *more* than a friend - only she knows that - but it does mean that she'll still play you. By acting cool and a bit of a di** LOL you were confusing her and she probably wondered if her charms had worn off.

 

The half smile and friends comment is interesting. It proves that she's not goingto deny that there is "something between you two". I'd say you are special to her because her actions seem centred round keeping YOUR attention and not anyone elses. The insecurity thing is where a girl wears low cut tops showing her breasts to get attention. It's unlikely your friend is insecure. She sounds too confident - like playing that other guy when you finished your last class. So I'd have to say she definitely knows how to control guys when she wants to.

 

I was teling her about how my date on fri never text me back as she asked me how it went.I told her how i was really nice and charming and funny etc.She said -"well,she must be crazy not to text you back then".

 

That could be a friendly comment. Or it could be a compliment. Don't read any more into it than that. Remember even a normal friend isn't going to say "well I'm not surprised". To be honest a flirty/interested person might even turn it into a joke and have picked on you. The problem you have is that the "best friend" treat you like a girlfriend thing which can happen makes it difficult to draw the line between friend and interested. People are there 100% for thei best friends sometimes even over their partners. Ever had a girl say they'd drop their b/f if he ever asked them to drop you? Well I know plenty of girls who say (I don't know they'd actually do it!) that kind of thing and people who you consider best friends do come top of your priorities.

 

About half an hour later she started saying again "do you really not like this top?,i think its really really flattering".I immediately laughed and said to her "what is it with you???",she laughed and went "nothing!".

 

Sounds like you really enjoy each others company and are at ease with each other. The problem is I'd say that can be a sign that there's no sexual tension only friend zone stuff going on. I have a friend I *used* to like 3 years ago and she's kinda the type I used to like - tall thin blonde attractive. Interestingly she used to talk about how her mum and her argue over how big her breasts are. She also was going on about going to the gym to get her legs more shapely. That sort of thing which sounds like flirting and pointing out her body features which turn us guys on.

 

So anyway we'd spend time round each other room laying on our beds and chatting. But she wasn't interested in more than friendship and that was the first time I really became 100% aware of the friend zone when a guy and girl can spend 4 nights a week chatting with each other for 6 hours and having dinner etc and *you* being the guy think hey maybe she likes me, she's flirting with me and we are like doing everything together, we have SO much in common (and we really did/still do). When it came down to it I realised while in my mind it was like the b/f g/f relationship to her it was how she treats her best friends.

 

Put yourself in the shoes. You may have or can imagine a female friend who you think is great but you are not attracted to them in any other way than as friends. They are the type of girl you'd go to dinner, drinks and cinema with but not girl friend material. Well we all end up knowing a few girls like that. And we treat them well but we just think it's how you treat a girl/sister/friend - notice the word lover isn't there. Thats how it can work for girls as well. A girl can have guy friends who *because* she "treats all her female friends that way" talking about how many children she wants, where she wants to live, job etc she doesn't think it different telling a guy friend that.

 

Often girls/guys don't think that by telling their friend of the opposite sex they are suggesting things between them. I don't know if they are naive, or in my experience blonde (I'm bored of blondes!) but some how 2+2 does not equal 4 to some people. It's like a light bulb comes on and they say "I never thought you felt that way for me." I think the lesson here is if you like a girl don't make 100% effort and call them all the time because girls only want what they can't have and they like a challenge. If you give them you 100% on a plate they will pick the unknown jerk. After all they know they still get you for free as well as the jerk.

 

Then the most bizzare thing!.I didnt meet her on Sunday night. She started saying how her and her bf and bfs friend were all out on Sun night.She said her bfs friend bought her bf drinks all night and how to thank him she was going to buy him a present.I was like "oh ok".Then she was like i need it wrapped too. I said why are you doing that?,she said oh to make my bf suspicious?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this girl. She moans about her b/f. Flirts with you. Then likes her b/f. Then when you are not interested flirts with anoter guy to make YOU jealous. Now she's thinking of buying his friend a present. Oh and make her b/f jealous. I think it's either she is tellingyou that her b/f doesn't matter or that she likes to make him suspicious so he'll treat her better and want to keep her. That would be attention seeking and the sign of someone who wants reassurance that more than one guy likes her.

 

I said "what?!?!?!?" why do you want to make your bf suspicious?. She said oh just as a joke. I said to her "thats disgusting,you've been going out for 2 years and your doing that to him,you must be have low self esteem and be insecure in your relationship to do that!" She got really angry and said "i dont,youre talking rubbish,i would just do it for a laugh",to me you wouldnt do that to the person you loved?!?!?!"She ended up not buying this guy a present but she was trying to get me to go and buy it with her.

 

Again either she wants to spend time with you or she's very odd. I don't think you want to be following her round like a puppy as she buys some other guy a present. Hahaha sounds like you hit the low self esteem thing! It may or may not be true - her actions suggest 50-50 she seems fairly confident though girls get a kick out of having a following of guys. Its a security thing knowing that you can always fall back on another guy if you split with your b/f. My friend had it with his ex g/f. He used to pull in night clubs to prove to himself that he could still cham the ladies. It never crossed his mind that the girl he was after were extremely drunk and had been ridden more times than the village bike! But it proved he was a MAN still and in his warped mind it made sense.

 

Im really annoyed with her now,shes either a manipulative wee "c**" who likes attention or shes trying to play me. I think maybe because she gets angry with me and i get under her skin shes trying to play me but im really not sure.

 

Well she's definitely manipulative but that doesn't mean its a bad thing if she wants you. If she's just playing you then it's not a good feeling. The thing is you and her are supposed to be "best friends" and while when you're thirty that equals marriage material I don't think you want to wait that long. Sadly we don't appreciate the people we really get on well with until we suddenly think drop the bitch or the jerk or whoever because they aren't who we want to be with for the next 40+ years.

 

It's later in life we work out the characteristics we want in a life partner - i.e. sone one we can chat to about anything, share experiences and enjoy life's moments with. My philosophy now is that when I get to that age (only 5 years doh!) I'm going to say to them too late you had your chance. IMHO I don't want to be someones 2nd best or make do so I'll keep playing it cool with my female friends and so far LOL they have to call me and fit in my diary to meet up. Take that blonde girl I used to like. She wanted to meet up for dinner and I told her I'd get back to her. A few days later I told her when *I* was free. She was busy that night.

 

In the past I'd bend over backwards for the girl to make things fit their timetable. This time I wasn't "lovestruck" and that interested. She's attractive and good company so you always feel good going out somewhere with a friend like that - makes other people jealous LOL. So I sent her back that that was the ONLY night I could make so she had to take it or leave it. In the past I'd be s*** scared of messing up. Now I really don't care. She texted me back that it was going to mess her schedule up but she had "re-timetabled" what she was doing and would be able to come as it was the only time for *us*. In my mind there's no us. She's just one of many of my female friends who's there if I want some company.

 

Now that probably came over like I'm being an a**h***! But the point is a girl I really liked is now having to do the chasing because she knows I'm not head over heels for her and that is a good thing. She knows she's not priority for me and I treat her like any of my other female friends. She used to be a *special girl* (I'm going to be sick but that's how we used to talk when I was a spineless soft loser!) now she's just another girl. Not sure she likes being dropped from her high pedestal back to planet Earth but the reality is she texts me quite often asking how I am and what I'm up to. I occaisonally reply!

 

The thing is I learnt with this girl was that she was only impressed with me when I'm really busy doing stuff. It's strange but quite often a guy who's 100% there for them isn't what they want. They want the unavailable hard to get NOT the lazy or desperate guy.I must point out that if I go out with her or one of the other girls I'm on friendly/flirty terms with then I would obviously make her 100% - BUT I would never ever tell a girl that. Girls like strong independent guys NOT puppy dogs so DO NOT act like one. If the girl isn't quite sure you absolutely like them then it pisses them off but they make a hell of a lot of effort. It's much nicer when the girl really tries hard

 

Im definitely going to get her out for a drink now and say to her "whats going on here" for me things are just bubbling under the surface and its really annoying,i cant be bothered with it.If she is just looking for attention then to be honest i dont want to know her as a friend if thats the kind of person she is.If she says she really really cares about me then tries to get my attention and flirts away,what kind of person is that as that could really hurt me!?.

 

I don't know if you've already spoken to her about stuff. I guess you'll update me when you read this. My one concern is that it shouldn't be about how *you* are feeling but you should ask her why she has been acting so strangely. It's kind of reversing the situation. You don't want it to look like you are an emotional wreck who is up and down. If she finds out you've been hot/cold as a game to play her than you're dead. It makes you sound desperate.

 

I hope you've learned that girls don't find a guy who's 100% theres to be walked on, spat on, treated like dirt and still say I love you - they don't find that attractive. You need to be worth them getting. And after all if you aren't worth being a b/f then why should she bother if she already gets you as a best friend. While I would never drop my female friends I've learnednever to treat them more than as good friends. This best friends between guys and girls is dangerous territory.

 

Think of it like this you are standing on opposite sides of a chalk line on the ground. Now a guy/girl best friend dynamic is in most cases the guy standing a lot closer to the line than the girl. Most cases the guy likes the girl while the girl doesn't care, has a b/f or at least many guys like us - we're nothing special. Now when a guy is nice to a girl, flirts, jokes and shows her that he's interesting but not interested.

 

When she meets a guy like that she'll want to get to know him better. By playing it just enough to keep them hooked but not enough that they think this guys soft or into me (only works if they feel the same) that means that the closer you get to the chalk line they also have to move towards it. Sometimes they make the first move. We've all had it when the girl say "let's do... this some time" or "we could do this." "Do you want to...". It's forcing the girl to make moves as well and limiting us getting hurt. It's a two way thing and that's why it's more likely to work out than if the guy makes all the moves. Of course on the otherhand you could have a girl who expects the guy to make all the moves. I don't know if they are worth it as I personally would only be happy with a girl crazy about me but maybe I'm just being insecure