Well, I'm about convinced the end is in sight.

[Kenyth]

I think I'm going to try and convince my wife to go to counseling again here. If she refuses, or it doesn't do anything, maybe it's time to call it quits. She's just never happy. I don't complain or make demands, I try to be affectionate, I love our baby and try to put in my fair share, but it's just not enough.

 

I think she can't handle the fact that I have a child from a previous marriage and have to deal with my ex for that reason. I don't treat my ex hostile enough for her tastes. She has animosity for my son, but that kind of comes and goes (Thank god!). She and the rest of my family are at odds, so that means I'm disowned because I stood up for her. She still doesn't think it's enough because I don't treat my parents hostile enough. I won't let her walk all over me anymore, so that causes fights.

 

I somehow get the impression that she want's me to let her walk all over me, but treat everyone else the exact opposite. Maybe I'm wrong. I keep looking at my behavior, trying to figure out if I'M doing something wrong, but I don't see it. I'm the one paying the highest price for this relationship no matter how I look at it. She shuns ANY responsibility for losing custody of my son and being disowned. It's all the other peoples fault. Now I'm not saying it's all her fault, or she maliciously did these things on purpose, but wouldn't a normal loving spouse have some sense of regret that their presence in your life brought on such heinous consequences? Regardless of who's right or wrong?

 

Anyway, past being past, the present isn't all that much better. We've slept together only a handful of times in the past 20 months. That timeframe includes pregnancy and recovery, so it's not as bad as it sounds, but it's far from good. She grudgingly accepts any affection from me most of the time and certainly doesn't reciprocate. When affection starts getting a little better, almost invariably, she starts a fight. It's almost like she's recharging her anger batteries or something.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Example, here's a dialogue of the last fight about this weekend. She thinks my son answered a call that came up on caller ID as "private". The answering machine had a handset pickup while the answering machine was going. The only thing I heard was "Hello?", then a hang-up or recording stop. The message is now deleted by her, but she swears she hears the start of another man's voice talking. We had discussed this previously this weekend, and I had thought it resolved. I spent the entire weekend doing spring cleaning, lawn equipment maintenance/repair, and yard work. Oh, and I picked up a load of basement stuf from her mom's house in the truck.

 

 

Her:

 

I never did get an answer on the 'private' call that <your son> answered on Saturday.....I want to know who it was an why they were calling my house privately. Your answer of you THINK you took a call like that doesn't cut it.

 

 

Me:

 

The answering machine picked up right? The call was disconnected right after saying hello, right? I picked up a call upstairs where nobody was on the other end. I said "hello" and nobody answered and the answering machine was going, so I hung up. I'm not sure when that call occurred. I think it was sometime Saturday. I didn't pay much attention to it because I was working around the house. I don't commit to memory meaningless events. Does this match the call you're talking about? If Grant picked up, wouldn't the answering machine keep going? I'm afraid this is the best answer I have for you, so it will have to do. What possible scenario do you think this could be? If you want desperately to know who it was, you tell me how we should find out. What is this really about? You're digging at something and I'd like to know what it is. I mean really, what's going on here? I can always swear on a bible or something if you're worried about someone calling that I'm not telling you about.

 

 

Her:

 

It wasn't your voice, it was <your son's>.

The answering machine can easily be shut off.

This is just like the things you used to do. there is only one person who has ever called us "privately". that is the same person with whom you have a friendship that by it's very nature betrays your loyalty to me. so, why wouldn't it make are again betraying me and hiding something? after all, the moment of a voice i heard on the other end sounded like <his step-dad's>.

 

 

Me:

 

My "friendship" is a figment of your imagination. Or more likely, a convenient excuse for you when the urge to argue strikes. Are you trying to start a fight or something? Do you find them fun or something? Did I do do something to deserve this besides sit home and bust my ass trying to help get the house in order and fix things this weekend? What possible scenario do you think this could be? If you want desperately to know who it was, you tell me how we should find out. If you want to monitor phone calls, buy a modular mic. adapter and hook your little tape recorder up to a phone jack. I'm at a complete loss as to what you want me to do for you here. Quite frankly, your paranoia and accusations here are really starting to tick me off. Are you trying to say you think I'm involved in some kind of plot here? Even if his mother did call for him (Which she didn't as far as I know. I so swear upon God's name!) I would hand the phone off to him. Why? Because by court order I am to provide reasonable phone access. This would have nothing to do with being friendly, only with doing my duty. Now please, will you stop accusing me?

 

 

Her:

 

You do realize, don't you, that this "figment of my imagination" and "convenient excuse" to argue - which you just want to discard like it's none of my business - has helped to destroy our marriage, don't you? In addition to the way in which you speak to me about these items. You obviously have listened to NOTHING I have said over the past months. You act like you are such a saint and I must be paranoid to think you hide things. Well, you hide things ALL THE TIME. Your high and mighty attitude is laughable.

 

And again, I will use this opportunity to ask you - PLEASE stop trying to hug and kiss me. It just doesn't work for me.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Now, you would think from the sound of this that I had an affair or something? Right? It's not! An impossibility even acknowledged by my wife! This is all about me not acting hostile enough towards my ex, so I am by default "friends" with her! What a load of BS! I can count the number of times I talk to her in a year on one hand and have fingers left!

 

The past "hiding things" she's referring to was me hiding the fact that I conversed with my ex about my son or visitation details. That was long ago.

 

I didn't immediately disclose the fact that my father and I were fighting via Email again around this XMas about the way things were going. That was more recent. My wife did not want to see them at their home Xmas eve or Xmas day, and she wanted to take the baby with her those two days, so I'd be visiting them alone. That was not good enough for them. We were at a very tender point of rebuilding their relationship with my wife and they threw it all away by blowing up again. Right before this, my parents could come over to our house to visit us and the baby. With patience, this could have gotten better. But when things didn't move fast enough, they decided to have a temper tantrum again and sent it all down the s***ter! It was very difficult for me to show her those emails at that time. It signaled the destruction of that which I had labored months to build, and it broke my heart to acknowledge it. I told her as much.

[Kenyth]

Feel free to make comments if I sound like an ass or something.

[jonesgirly]

Holy god Kenyth, how DO you do it?

 

Now hold on there.....I'm not professing to believe that you're an absolute "saint", because I'm hearing only one side of the story. Having made that disclaimer, I must say your wife seems like such a BIATCH!

 

How dare she treat her 13 yr old stepson with such disdain. How utterly self-destructive to "bad mouth" HIS mother to him! Has "life" taught this woman nothing?

 

I am a stepmom (one son lives with us, one with his mother, and five others are over 18). I can tell you without any hesistation that your wife is RUINING the chance to have any kind of relationship with your son. My H also had many "issues" with his ex-wife, ALL of which I stayed out of, in an attempt to not be intrusive. Now that they've been divorced for several years (4), I have begun to encourage a healthier relationship between the two of them - as PARENTS of their own children! And don't get me wrong - there was LOTS of ugliness between them at first. But I knew it was eating my H up inside to hold onto the anger and animosity he felt towards her, in addition to interfering with the healthy relationship he could have with his kids. He would frequently bad-mouth her to them, and I quickly put the kabash on that! It backfires - the kids automatically take the side of the bad-mouthed parent - happens all the time! Beside that, its extremely selfish and immature of the perpetrator. Parents (and stepparents) have NO BUSINESS putting kids in the middle - end of story!

 

And I would like to add - your previous arrangement with the "pleasant" agreements, etc., worked for ALL of your - kudos for that. Too bad your ex just "had" to get custody. I WILL say that boys tend to want to live with their fathers when they get a little older - 14/15 - around there. You would be wise to get your "house" in order should this become a possibility. You may want to remind your wife that your son has only one "father."

 

That being said........your wife appears to be very insecure. Any ideas why? She sounds angry, jealous (to the extreme), and miserable. How in the hell to you go home every night?

[Pink_Tulip]

What is at the root of this jealousy and insecurity with your ex wife? Was she always this way? Does she use it as a form of control over you? Or has anything happened that makes her question your motives? It seems really odd to me as well.

 

And if your son was with you, and you XW called, why would your wife question it? Is the boys mother not allowed to talk to her son when he is spending time with you? That doesn't seem very nice.

 

What is you W background like? She seems afraid that you will leave her for just about anyone- your parents, ex wife, etc. Does she have a fear of abandonment?

 

It really hard to give any kind of advice from this one conversation. The only thing I can say for sure is, get into counseling ASAP!

[Walk]

Do your conversations normally go that way? You have a pretty bad cycle of defensiveness and hostile communication. Not that I blame you, but you two aren't even talking any more.. it's just words hurled back and forth.

 

I'm not saying your to blame or that you did anything wrong. Just an observation. You probably already know that though. But you invalidated her thoughts and feelings right away, then she attempted to defend her views as being right. You got more upset that she wouldn't see it as nothing, and she was pissed you seemed to be saying she was crazy and it was nothing... (which I would think she was crazy, 'cause it wasnt anything worth even bringing up.)

 

Just noticing..

 

Personally, I really believe that your partner should want what will make you happy. If that includes getting along with your in laws that you can't stand then you do it. She sounds really self centered, and selfish. How long has it been this way? And there's no underlying mental health issues going on?

[glittergurl]

Oh, this is sad. I know she sounds crazy jealous, but she must suffer from it. I also wonder what's causing this. Was she always this way?

[2sunny]

Wow, this is not a relationship - it seems like an enemy.

 

A marriage is two people working together for common goals and values in order to make each other feel and look better than they actually are. A partner should bring out the best possible you there is - and you with them.

 

This is not the case in your situation. Make it go away.....

[aleatoryd]

This is not my idea of a marriage. There's two side to every story so I'll assume your wife has some deep rooted reason - fear of abandonment, insecurity that sort of thing. It's not uncommon for a new g/f or wife to have ill feelings to the mother of your first born. I'm younger than you so I have less experience but I have a friend who has left his partner for another woman (bad situation) and they have a daughter. So this new g/f has to be around every time he sees his daughter. This is out of jealousy - she wants to ensure he doesn't develop a bond with his daughter.

 

Imagine that jealous of a 2 year old. Sometimes women are insecure and irrationally jealous. I think maybe your current wife is similar only a few years later down the line. So did she act like that around your son. This is complicated if you have a baby together. The thing is no matter how stubborn or stupid you parents are they are family. I would be very worried if my family didn't get on with my wife (in the future LOL). Not a good sign of things. When a person goes against their family well that doesn't suggest everyone is happy with your marriage.

 

Maybe they think she's nuts. No offence intended just the picture you paint isn't very positive. How did they feel about you ex wife and were there circumstances which complicate that marriage and this one i.e. links or are they independent of each other. I agree with the other posters you need outside intervention like counselling. I respect that you must love your wife and want to be there for your baby but your marriage sounds a nightmare and unless you have want a lifetime of her behaviour I suggest you seriously consider separation.

 

Nothing you've done sounds particularly bad to justify her behaviour and she clearly has serious character flaws. If you can resolve them... well I wish you all the best. Let us know if you have more history on how this all started. Take care.

[Ladyjane14]

I went back and read a bunch of your previous posts this morning, Kenyth. And the thought that I have for you is....BOUNDARIES.

 

Your ex-wife cheated on you multiple times and pushed you around while doing it. Your parents are continuing to push you around. And now your current wife is doing the same.

 

You seem like a nice enough guy. And I'm the first to agree that it's a GOOD thing to have the ability to see the other guy's side of things when you're in a state of conflict, to be open to all the possible answers in conflict resolution. But dude....there are some things that you just can't work out a compromise on.

 

Case in point is your eldest son. You need to be an involved parent, and because you are co-parenting with his mother, you'll be having occasional contact with her. You can't compromise on that. It's your kid's welfare at stake.

 

I could be wrong, but if your boundaries are a bit wobbly in a general sense, your wife might see that as something to be insecure about. In other words, if she feels that you can be influenced by your parents or your ex-wife, then she can't trust you NOT TO ALLOW that influence. She'll want to be the ONLY voice speaking into your ear, because she's afraid you'll be swayed by other voices.

 

If I were you, I think I'd spend some time thinking about EXACTLY what my boundaries are. What do you need from the people around you in order to make your relationship with each of them workable.

 

For example, a boundary for the wife might be to BUTT OUT of your relationship with your son. If she can't find it in her heart to be helpful and supportive, she can at least close her pie-hole.

 

A boundary for the parents regarding your current wife would be similar...either be helpful or BUTT OUT.

 

A boundary for the ex-wife would be to ONLY engage in conversation as it pertains to raising your son.

 

Boundaries for your son would be ALL the normal boundaries for teen-age boys. Speaking respectfully to adults. Treating the younger brother and even the cat with understanding and care. Doing his homework, and minding his table manners, etc.

 

Once you've set the boundaries...you have to be prepared to enforce them. That doesn't mean you have to drag out the BIG GUNS first.

You start out patrolling and gently enforcing...then build up as needed with your response. It's a teaching process, where you teach your people how to treat you.

 

The trick is that you NEVER waiver from your boundary. When a gentle, verbal reminder fails, you're going to get a bit more snarky about it. And when "snarky" doesn't work, you're going to take some action. Even then, your response should be measured to use the least force required to get the job done. Leaving the relationship entirely is the FINAL measure.....and probably won't be necessary.

 

I think counseling is a great idea, btw. If your wife doesn't enthusiastically embrace it....why not start it on your own? The counselor will help you work out strategies on developing your personal boundaries as well as maintaining and enforcing them.

[2sunny]

I agree with your great advice Ladyjane, however I'm not sure setting boundaries is going to eliminate her mean spirit.

[Ladyjane14]

I agree with your great advice Ladyjane, however I'm not sure setting boundaries is going to eliminate her mean spirit.

 

True. But I think maybe if he sets the boundaries and stays with them, he'll introduce a new sense of strength and resolve to the entire dynamic.

 

It stands to reason, that if she's reacting to her own insecurity, she'll be comforted as time goes by. Kenyth's boundaries will no longer be flexible and subject to outside interference. Her surroundings become stable and consistant and her fear should wane.

 

If she's just mean-spirited...that too will reveal itself given enough time. That's not something she can hide indefinately.

[Mz. Pixie]

Wow-

 

This woman has alienated you from your family and your son and it is still not enough for her??

 

She's jealous of any contact that you have with your exwife for the sake of the child??

 

WTF?? I'm a stepmother and I cannot imagine feeling that entitled that I would do some of those things and act like it was normal behavior.

 

I agree with LJ- as I'm inclined to do alot! I think IC is a great idea for you because you need to learn how to set boundaries and how to deal with this woman.

[Ladyjane14]

Have y'all ever watched The Dog Whisperer?

http:// http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/

 

I just recently caught a couple of episodes and now I'm a big fan. This guy, Cesar Millan, has some incredible techniques.....one of which is 'claiming your space'.

 

Now, I'm not saying that Kenyth should necessarily train his people like he trains his dog. But it sure seems like "his space" is being SERIOUSLY infringed upon.

 

 

p.s. If you go to the video clips section on the link above, you can watch Cesar teach this lady how to re-claim her front door from her wayward pooch.

[Kenyth]

Things are better now apparently, though intimacy is still a problem.

 

Do I have a codependant personality do you think? I was a real people pleaser for the longest time. I'm getting much better on boundaries as time goes on.

 

I have to wonder what programmed me like this? A strict discipline childhood? Distant mother? I guess people pleasing is a well rewarded behavior, so that could be it also.

[Bob Dole]

Have y'all ever watched The Dog Whisperer?

http:// http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/

 

I just recently caught a couple of episodes and now I'm a big fan. This guy, Cesar Millan, has some incredible techniques.....one of which is 'claiming your space'.

 

Now, I'm not saying that Kenyth should necessarily train his people like he trains his dog. But it sure seems like "his space" is being SERIOUSLY infringed upon.

 

 

p.s. If you go to the video clips section on the link above, you can watch Cesar teach this lady how to re-claim her front door from her wayward pooch.

 

Actually, LadyJane -- I think there is actual merit in "training people" in exactly this manner. I've long held this exact theory, and got a real kick out of your post because of it; I sincerely believe that whether we want to or not, we DO train people in how to treat us, we DO train people as to where our boundaries are, what we'll put up with, and what we expect.

 

I know it sounds superficially insulting to suggest "training" people in this manner, but I watch my three dogs -- and they get along well precisely because they've done it (and where they don't get along, because they've failed to do it .... why won't the biggest dog defend the territory of his food bowl, dammit?)

 

I trained my father to treat me badly for most of my life. I'm not saying it wasn't his fault, or that he's not an ass ... it was and he is. But I TAUGHT him that his behavior was acceptable.

 

Until one day he crossed the wrong boundary, and I metaphorically snarled and growled and bared my teeth. Problem solved.

 

We DO train people in our lives, whether we mean to or not, whether we like to admit or not. I think Kennyth here could benefit from understanding that.

[Ladyjane14]

I trained my father to treat me badly for most of my life. I'm not saying it wasn't his fault, or that he's not an ass ... it was and he is. But I TAUGHT him that his behavior was acceptable.

 

Until one day he crossed the wrong boundary, and I metaphorically snarled and growled and bared my teeth. Problem solved.

 

Good example, Bob. That's kind of what I had in mind for Kenyth, and I imagine he's probably 'growled and bared his teeth' before. Afterall, who hasn't?

 

But he seems to embrace the role of the peacemaker in his family, and I have to wonder what would happen if he stepped back from that role a little. Maybe it would force some of the other folks who are currently 'disturbing the peace' to step up to the plate and take some responsibility.

 

If we go back to the dog analogy...it's not the pack leader who brokers for peace. The dog who gets in trouble with the alpha is the one responsible for making apologies. Alpha dog has boundaries.

 

Things are better now apparently, though intimacy is still a problem.

 

Do I have a codependant personality do you think? I was a real people pleaser for the longest time. I'm getting much better on boundaries as time goes on.

 

I have to wonder what programmed me like this? A strict discipline childhood? Distant mother? I guess people pleasing is a well rewarded behavior, so that could be it also.

 

I don't think I'd settle for one day of "better", Kenyth. These people have you on an emotional rollercoaster...up and down every few days.

 

As far as "codependant" goes...I really couldn't tell you. I think you'd have to discuss that with a professional. But actually, I don't put a whole lot of stock in the notion of codependancy to begin with.

 

It doesn't really matter what caused you to be a "people pleaser" in the past. The past is the past afterall. What matters more is if you're happy with your life today, because it's today that you have control of, right?

 

If you need help setting your boundaries, get some. It's not a big deal when compared to years and years ahead of you spent in conflict. I think there's alot of hope to be had for the success of your marriage. But not if you're allowing your wife to drive your 'quality of life' up and down on a daily emotional rollercoaster ride.

 

Bottom line...your emotions are yours. She doesn't get to decide what kind of day you're going to have. You do.

[Mz. Pixie]

K-

 

Did you have any abuse in your childhood??

 

You deserve to have more from life and marriage than this. Your son deserves more as well.

[Kenyth]

K-

 

Did you have any abuse in your childhood??

 

You deserve to have more from life and marriage than this. Your son deserves more as well.

 

 

None that I know of. We were spanked for punishment with a belt or cooking spoon, but nothing terrible. A couple of welts, but nothing excessive. That's how kids were disciplined back then. Not much was thought of it. I remember my mother being a bit distant when I was very young, but again nothing I consider traumatic.

 

 

 

There is one incident that I am recently curious about. I have a bad shoulder. It's a bit loose in the socket and can give me problems if I'm not careful. As I get older, it gets worse. The doctor was pretty sure it was from an old injury. I didn't remember an old injury, only always having a troublesome shoulder since childhood. I mentioned this to my parents after the fiest Dr. visit a couple years back. My mother immediately piped up remebering I had dislocated the shoulder twice when I was very young while playing. After saying this, my parents got quiet and funny for a couple seconds, and I never got any more details on the story. It just kind of dropped. Normally, you'd elaborate on a story like this I'd think. The only reason it sticks in my mind is that I was recently informed that most shoulder dislocations in toddlers or preschoolers are caused by a violent yank by an adult holding their arm. My memories from that age are very vague, but I do remember I was generally held by my right arm and yanked if I tried to pull away. It may be something, it may be nothing.

[Mz. Pixie]

Eh, having had small kids, that may be nothing.

 

But perhaps your mom being distant could mean more. You know, always seeking the approval of women, etc??

 

As an abuse survivor alot of what you said smacked right with me.

[Kenyth]

Good example, Bob. That's kind of what I had in mind for Kenyth, and I imagine he's probably 'growled and bared his teeth' before. Afterall, who hasn't?

 

But he seems to embrace the role of the peacemaker in his family, and I have to wonder what would happen if he stepped back from that role a little. Maybe it would force some of the other folks who are currently 'disturbing the peace' to step up to the plate and take some responsibility.

 

 

 

I think you're hitting the nail on the head here LJ. In my family, we always seemed to triangulate when someone acts inappropriately.

 

"Joe's acting up again! Have mom talk to him!".

 

"Hey Jake, talk to mom for me would ya? She's pissed again."

 

Etcetera, etcetera.

 

We never talked directly to each other it seems unless it was fighting.

 

My parents and I have been butting heads since I was a teen about my girlfreinds. It seems everyone want's to fight for control over me under the guise of "loyalty". "You're being disloyal to me!" I seem to hear that word a lot. It must have some significance.

[Ladyjane14]

It seems everyone want's to fight for control over me under the guise of "loyalty".

 

Anybody who desires to "control" you is disrespecting you. You're a grown man, in charge of his own destiny.

 

You can be as much of a gentleman as folks will allow....but you'll still have to patrol that boundary with diligence while everyone's learning that you're not putting up with it anymore.

[Magister]

Reading a thread like this just makes me sad. I think Kenyth has marriage problems, but nothing that shouldn't have been easily fixed had he actually gotten good advice.

 

Boundaries are great, but not if your going to start carving them out in the middle of your household. A house divided against itself.... and all that. So Kenyth, your wife's behavior is completely reasonable. You should not speak to your babymama without your wife being present. If that isn't possible, you shouldn't agree to anything without asking for your wife's input first. She isn't ever going to treat your son like he was her son if you keep reminding her that he isn't.

 

And guy, you need to seriously reevaluate your belief that your wife drove your family away. She is blameless for that. You didn't have to marry her. If keeping a relationship with your family was of such great importance, you shouldn't have. Except you have already, so get over it. You have your own family now.

 

Besides, you can't have sex with your dad.