Another Love but not IN Love Story

[blueberry]

and i hesitate to say it but "act like a man" . sorry but you know what i mean.

 

you shouldnt tolerate this - nor should anyone, but you should have a much louder voice than this.

[DesperateDad]

Blueberry, thanks. Short, but to the point and good advice. I'm working hard on getting control of the situation. Sometimes I feel like I have control, but others, not. The OM is one thing I feel like I have no control over right now. When I can get him to bow out, I'll be a lot more secure.

[Mistaken Identity]

If your wife was going to leave you for the OM, why hasn't she? What's keeping her home? What's it going to take for her to make the break?

[dgiirl]

D, you cannot control the OM. You cannot control your wife going to the OM. So stop trying to control THAT situation. You do have a lot of control over other situations tho. You have control over how she treats you. You have control over how you treat her. You have control over who's allowed in your own home. I know you have already but I think you should keep focusing your efforts there and less on how to control the OM.

 

FYI, she's already admitted to kissing this guy? It's no different than what you've done in the past. The only difference is, she KEEPS doing it even when she knows it's hurting you. That's a BIG difference. Were you remorseful for doing it? Is she?

 

I dont know why she's still sticking around. She either is not sure, or she's planning something. I would pay very close attention to your bank accounts and credit cards. I wouldnt let her know, but I wouldnt be stupid either. Protect yourself and your kids first.

[DesperateDad]

Last night was another bad one. She initiated a discussion about our relationship at about eleven o'clock. I kept it short and sweet and asked if anything had changed. She said no. I said the only thing I was thinking was that we should go to counseling if she would still agree to it. She said yes, but it wouldn't change anything. Nothing new.

 

Later, though, she came upstairs to our bedroom where I was trying to get to sleep and tried to make her case for divorce again. It's like she can't believe that I understand where she's coming from. I get it. Really. No longer in love. I understand.

 

So, I took it as an opportunity to very calmly and rationally burst her fantasy bubbles. I told her once again that it would be very expensive and painful and that it would be very damaging to the children. I told her how difficult it was going to be for her to make it on child support and whatever alimony she gets. I said it would be very hard for us to remain friends through it all.

 

The subject of the OM came up again and I told her that I couldn't possibly be friends with him ever again and that she shouldn't expect me to. I said he became an enemy of my family when she kissed him and that I should have realized it then.

 

After all this she became very hateful and talked about how I destroyed her life and how much I'd hurt her, etc, etc. I kept telling her that I wasn't trying to be mean, but that she had to start facing reality about things.

 

I also told her that she wasn't going to find some prince charming to sweep her off her feet after I was gone. She really believes that there is somebody better out there for her even if things don't work out with the OM. I said I doubted the OM would feel comfortable at all in having a relationship with her considering the circumstances and that I didn't want him around her or the kids. I also mentioned that I felt she was flaunting her relationship with him in front of me.

 

It may have been cold of me to do so, but I reminded her that she is a 37yo mother of six kids, three of them in diapers, and that that wasn't going to be a great attractor of men. I said all of the attention she got on myspace didn't mean that all these men were going to come and take care of her and romance her, etc. This is the real world.

 

She reacted to all of this by standing at the foot of the bed as I was trying to ask her to just go to sleep. She refused and just kept baiting me and saying hateful, sarcastic things over and over until I was so furious I was shaking.

 

When it got to be about 3am, I told her to drop the pretense that this was about the kids. She kept saying that she was doing this for the kids and I said that was BS. She is doing this completely and entirely for her very own self. It was probably mean of me to say and she took it hard, but I said she didn't want to be a mother.

 

She got very upset after I said that. She said she has always wanted to be a mother and that that's the most important thing to her. I said it didn't seem like it and that it was clear to me and would be clear to everyone around us that this was entirely about her and not about the kids.

 

I said she wanted to live in the jet set and have some dark, mysterious guy fly her off to europe on the drop of a hat and wine and dine her. I told her this is pure fantasy and that she needs to wake up. She will never find that guy because he does not exist.

 

I told her several times that if she wanted to leave so badly she should just go. I would take care of the kids. She kept saying that she wasn't going to leave 'her' kids and I kept reminding her that they were not 'hers' alone and that they were just as much mine.

 

I did tell her repeatedly that I would do whatever it takes to make her trust me again and to meet her needs. I told her I would give up whatever she wanted, if that was what it took. I also said that I was ready to work things out with her whenever and that she was my first priority after the kids. She said she resented me for putting the kids first!

 

I finally got to sleep sometime close to 4am. This morning she asked me if I was still angry. I told her a little bit, but that it would pass. She also tried to start explaining her side of things again. I said, no, you've all ready said that. I get it. She then said that if I wanted to set up counseling I should go ahead and do it and not wait any longer. She wants to get it over with, but doesn't believe it will change anything.

 

She says her plan now is to get herself in a financial position where she can get divorced and still keep the house. She believes that she can make enough money on her own to keep our 250k house that we can now barely pay for with my salary plus my extra work. She thinks she'll be able to make the money and also take care of all the little kids (again, 6 kids, with 5 of them age 6yo and under). For now, we're staying together for the kids.

 

A lot of withdrawals from MY love bank last night. A few more nights like that and it's going to get very difficult for me to stay. I'm trying to avoid all arguments, but I can't just sit there and get my ass kicked over and over.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks MI and dgiirl. It seems like she's waiting on me to agree that divorce is the best option for us. And yes, she admitted to kissing the guy because I caught them kissing in my own kitchen late one night. She swears up and down that there has never been anything else physical between them and I do tend to believe her.

 

She said it was the alcohol and that she got carried away, but I'll never forget the look on her face when I came downstairs to find him with his arms around her. If I hadn't felt guilty for what I had done and totally shocked to have it happening in front of me I think I would have gotten physical right there. I probably should have.

 

As far as the money goes, I asked her again this morning to turn over all account numbers and passwords to me. She assured me that she would and that she hadn't hidden any financial stuff from me. She also asked me if I was getting scared and I said yes.

[Ladyjane14]

She says her plan now is to get herself in a financial position where she can get divorced and still keep the house. She believes that she can make enough money on her own to keep our 250k house that we can now barely pay for with my salary plus my extra work. She thinks she'll be able to make the money and also take care of all the little kids (again, 6 kids, with 5 of them age 6yo and under).

 

Well kiddo....if that's her master plan then it's time for you to get a plan that will defeat it.

 

The fact is, that YOU are the one who's actually in a position to pull all that off instead. Now, I recognize that you have it in your head that divorce will put you out of the home and away from your kids, BUT.....it doesn't have to go down like that.

 

You are the guy with the money, who can afford to keep the house. A little creative refinancing can put you in a position where it will be manageable. And with the help of a good nanny, paid for out of child support that your wife pays to YOU, the kids can stay in their home. While it's true that kids need their mothers, it's equally true that they need their fathers. And when men CHOOSE a nurturing role....they are largely successful at fulfilling it, bringing the same drive that they bring to their 'breadwinner' role.

 

I think you ought to meet up with an attorney and discuss your options. It will go a long, long, way towards alleviating some of your fear of loss. I can't tell you how much better I felt after I had done this. It helped me to feel more in control of my destiny, knowing that I could FIGHT for what I knew was right, and that my attorney would help me do it.

 

I want you to imagine for a moment how nice it would feel to NOT be afraid of your WW anymore, to let go of the fear that she's going to take everything you care about away from you.

 

Seeing an attorney doesn't commit you to any legal action. But there's nothing that says you can't be prepared in advance to do so at the drop of a hat. Having accurate legal guidance can't hurt you a bit. If anything, it will help you to not make costly mistakes should the need for Plan B arise. Most attorneys will offer an initial consult for a minimal fee, and some will do it for free. In the long run, it can save you both money *AND* aggravation.

 

I hope you documented her argumentative behavior last night btw, as well as your attempts to disengage from what was essentially harassment in the wee hours of the morning. And if she was drinking, document that as well.

 

You live in a glass house from now on, buddy.....doing everything right and giving her NO ammunition to use against you. Your lawyer can give you more advice about that.

 

You might also consider breaking into her PC and gathering evidence from it as well. Try not to get caught though. If it's your PC as well it's no big deal, but it will give her fodder for argument. Quite frankly, I'm starting to wonder if 'neighbor guy' is the only problem. I'm not sure what's bugging me specifically, but when you posted that she's been on "myspace", my red flag went up.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, LJ. I'm starting to document things, but can you tell me exactly what I need to write down? I'm not sure what will help and what will hurt me. And what about things that have happened in the past that I don't remember the date of? Like neighbors found kids outside while she was in bathroom or on computer or when I caught her kissing the OM? Can I document these, but give a general date?

 

I'm planning on talking to an attorney as soon as possible. I want to find one who has loads of experience in this and also who does the majority of his/her work in divorce. Any other pointers on attorneys? I'm going to call the local bar association for a few recommendations today.

 

I am absolutely certain that I can take care of the kids and find a nanny for them during the day. I already take care of them by myself after I get home from work every day. They are used to me giving them a bath after supper and putting them to bed every night. I also usually get them started with breakfast each morning and change diapers, etc, before I go to work.

 

I'm going to open up a checking account for myself at another bank in the next couple of days, too. I won't do anything stupid like raiding our joint account, but I will put money from other sources into my account. Is it okay to do this? I don't want to hide it from her, but I won't be giving her any access to it. Should I also get a PO box?

 

I'm also going to set up a counseling session for the both of us since she's agreed to it (Yes, I still want to work things out!). I talked to some people at catholic social services and the fees should be manageable. Any thoughts on this? I didn't want to go with a secular therapist who might go all new age on me.

 

And, LJ: You're absolutely right. Just planning on doing these things is making me feel more in control of things and less fearful. Thanks again for the advice!

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks, LJ. I'm starting to document things, but can you tell me exactly what I need to write down? I'm not sure what will help and what will hurt me. And what about things that have happened in the past that I don't remember the date of? Like neighbors found kids outside while she was in bathroom or on computer or when I caught her kissing the OM? Can I document these, but give a general date?

 

I would. I'd start out with a preliminary epilogue of my recollections, and general remembrance of the time of each event. Even if you use generic terminology like "Last July 2005,....(such and such event happened)"

 

Your attorney can give you lots of advice on the most pertinent information to provide to the court in your state. In no-fault states, for example...the info you provide on what YOU do for your kids as a parent, is more important than details pertaining to your wife's adultery. So, giving the kids their bath or taking them to cub scouts is valuable information.

 

I'm planning on talking to an attorney as soon as possible. I want to find one who has loads of experience in this and also who does the majority of his/her work in divorce. Any other pointers on attorneys? I'm going to call the local bar association for a few recommendations today.

 

You might take a look at some online sites for pointers. http://divorcenet.com is one such site.

 

I am absolutely certain that I can take care of the kids and find a nanny for them during the day. I already take care of them by myself after I get home from work every day. They are used to me giving them a bath after supper and putting them to bed every night. I also usually get them started with breakfast each morning and change diapers, etc, before I go to work.

 

See....I think you can do it too. And I don't even really know ya.

The only thing that you have to do is to conquer your fear and have faith in your abilities.

 

I'm going to open up a checking account for myself at another bank in the next couple of days, too. I won't do anything stupid like raiding our joint account, but I will put money from other sources into my account. Is it okay to do this? I don't want to hide it from her, but I won't be giving her any access to it. Should I also get a PO box?

 

Ask your attorney about these kind of issues. You don't want to ever be acused of hiding marital assets.

 

I'm also going to set up a counseling session for the both of us since she's agreed to it (Yes, I still want to work things out!). I talked to some people at catholic social services and the fees should be manageable. Any thoughts on this? I didn't want to go with a secular therapist who might go all new age on me.

 

The preferred goal is keeping the entire family together. So, with that in mind....I think you might actually do a little better with religious-based counceling. The down-side is that your wife's not going to be hearing what she wants to hear, but it's not anything significantly different than any other pro-marriage venue either.

 

If she had emotional issues due to a medical issue, like BPD or severe depression, I could see the merit in secular counseling geared more to those issues. But if not, the last thing you need is some well-meaning quasi-shrink telling her it's okay to destroy her family dynamic.

[SoleMate]

DD, I'm uncomfortable with some of what you said during the conversation, especially:

 

...I said she didn't want to be a mother...I said she wanted to live in the jet set and have some dark, mysterious guy fly her off to europe on the drop of a hat and wine and dine her....I also told her that she wasn't going to find some prince charming to sweep her off her feet after I was gone...

 

I know you feel you have had lots of provocation, but honestly, if your wife was baiting you, you were doing it right back. If you are telling her her feelings, you're just way off base. However good or bad, rational or irrational, her feelings may be, surely she knows them better than you. Also, you have no business predicting the future.

 

It would have been fair to raise some of these ideas as QUESTIONS: i.e. "Do you want to be a mother?" Also, I think that telling her she is undesirable to other men can readily backfire. That's not Plan A, and it's not even Plan B. It's just a slap. I can see that many women would take it as a challenge to prove you wrong, and that's going the wrong direction for your purposes.

 

I do like LadyJane's idea of working to reduce your own fear level. I think you would be able to make better choices right now. Don't get me wrong, you're struggling manfully and doing very well in a very difficult situation. There are areas where you could be doing better.

 

I think it's time to forbid the OM to the house. You may need to consult a lawyer about this, or send the OM a serious, crisp, curt letter. Putting things in writing takes them to a whole new level of effectiveness. I'm afraid that he's like the pus that has to get squeezed out of the zit before it starts to heal... (He may be a great guy at some level, but he definitely enhances the threat to your marriage.)

 

I will put money from other sources into my [separate] account. Is it okay to do this?

Only if the sources are truly your separate property. Other than inheritances, possibly passive growth in separate, premarital investments, and possibly some awards for personal injury, there is very little money that is separate property in a community property state. In general, any money you earn or acquire during the marriage, in any way whatsoever, is a joint asset in a community property state. If you conceal it, or even prevent her from accessing it, you're stealing from her. That may not feel fair right now, but it is the law. I'm sure you can see that if the situation were reversed, you would not accept her doing the same.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks! I've started a journal just as you've suggested and I'll try to move ahead with an attorney and also counseling as soon as possible. I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. I have a suspicion that once she sees that I'm not going to be a pushover, she may back off a little from wanting a divorce.

 

On another note: she did mention last night that she is CHOOSING to not have feelings for the OM any more because of the fact that our daughter and his son are dating and have 'serious' feelings (at 15/16yo?).

 

She still thinks it's okay to be in contact with him, but this could be a start to disengagement. There were also lots of pauses last night in our conversation after I stated some facts about what would happen in a divorce. Some of the reality check points seemed to really make her have to think about how to answer. Could it be sinking in that this won't be nearly as easy as her last divorce?

[Mz. Pixie]

Things that you need to document are like 5/9- gave kids baths, fed them, tucked them in- WW engaged in telephone chat with neighbor across the street.

 

Everytime you do something for the kids- you document it. You document everything that comes out of her mouth that's bad- but do it without slamming her too bad- a judge can see through that. When you find out he's been at your home during the day with your kids unsupervised- document it.

 

Perhaps his wife would be interested in obtaining this information too to use in her divorce case?? Hmmmm??

 

Perhaps the OM would be interested in knowing that she was having sex with you recently?? That should knock him off his block!

 

DD- she's got six kids!!! She's probably wanting a bit of escape from reality and that's what this guy is giving her. I agree with LJ- he shouldn't be invited to your home- period ever and you shouldn't attend ANY events where he is present. Neither should she. I'd be telling her I'd yell it from the rafters if she thought she could do that and embarrass her in front of everyone! Tell him you'll file a restraining order on behalf of your children if you find out he's been at your house again.

 

You need to get control of that money as well. That is her ticket out. She doesn't even have a job- what are her marketable skills?? She is DREAMING if she thinks that she can get a job and support those kids- pay daycare and have the house. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Especially with her infidelity. If she wants out bad enough- she'll give you all of it- she's obviously not even consulted an atty because he would have told her she doesn't have grounds first of all and that there would be no way she would get everything.

 

You have the power here, no matter what she thinks. You need to document her actions as far as keeping you up at night etc. Keep it at work and make copies to give to a trusted friend. You also need to get some snooping done while you're at work. Borrow a friends car- or inlist someone you trust to help you in gathering evidence.

 

This just makes me furious and I've BEEN a OW!!! Six kids and she thinks she can get everything from you and she's cheating?? No way.

 

Please see an attorney- like yesterday but DO NOT TELL HER.

 

I think you're doing a great job by the way of trying to repair things and Plan A. I think you just need to stand up for yourself more with the OM situation. She's fence sitting and waiting on something or she would already be gone.

[DesperateDad]

SoleMate, thanks for the input. I can see your point and I think my anger made me say things I otherwise wouldn't have. I really didn't want to get pushed into that, but felt backed into a corner.

 

She followed me into the bedroom where I was trying to sleep. I didn't want to talk anymore and told her so, but she wouldn't stop. I know that's not an excuse for losing my cool, but it was a tough situation. I really did believe that I was only trying to give her a reality check.

 

I'll take your advice about the money, too. I'm just scared that I'll be left with nothing at all to live off of or that she'll make some financial moves that will put our family in a worse financial position. It's all shaky until I can get access to everything. I think I really need to talk to a good attorney ASAP.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks, Mz. P. I really hope that reality sinks in one of these days. It can't possibly be as good for her as she thinks it will be.

 

I also can't believe that I've been as bad as she says. Yes, I had an EA with kissing last spring and yes, I focused more on work/school/extra work than on her emotional needs for a long time. The truth is, though, that I begged her to talk to me for a long time and she wouldn't.

 

When she did talk to me about what was bothering her, it felt to me like a personal attack. I was away too much (working/going to school) and I didn't make enough money. That still comes up in every argument: I don't make enough money and she doesn't respect me because of it. I made 70k last year! That's not great, but it ain't chicken feed either.

[dgiirl]

You need to get a lawyer AND you need to get records of your finances. My mom was a huge help. She came to my house, took a photocopy of every single piece of paper in my house and could track exactly where the money went. It was very useful in case I needed to go there during the divorce process. A week after he left, I showed up at his office and demanded the balance of all his accounts. I know I shouldnt have demanded, but he gave it to me, and so I knew exactly how much he had in case it accidently went missing. I sometimes still think there was money missing, but not enough to worry about it.

 

Remember, when looking for a lawyer, call a few different ones. The first 3 i called were VERY aggressive. I didnt want that because I knew they would just make things worse. The last one I called wasnt very aggressive, he was very objective, knew his stuff, but didnt try to escalate my anger, he actually calmed me down a few times and told me how to play my cards properly. Although it cost me a few extra bucks, i still think it was worth it. And since you have kids together, you really want someone who will be able to mediate instead of prolong the divorce in a heated divorce case. But at the same time, you want to get what you rightfully deserve. At this point, just find out your rights and what you can and cannot do. Like all these smart women already said, you want to alleviate the fear and once you know your rights you can call her bluff.

[Mz. Pixie]

I also can't believe that I've been as bad as she says. Yes, I had an EA with kissing last spring and yes, I focused more on work/school/extra work than on her emotional needs for a long time. The truth is, though, that I begged her to talk to me for a long time and she wouldn't.

 

When she did talk to me about what was bothering her, it felt to me like a personal attack. I was away too much (working/going to school) and I didn't make enough money. That still comes up in every argument: I don't make enough money and she doesn't respect me because of it. I made 70k last year! That's not great, but it ain't chicken feed either.

 

I could never justify bashing my husband because he doesn't make enough money- but I'm not material in any way and I just can't relate to that. My first husband made good money but we weren't rich and this time I'm married to a teacher who works two jobs- but loves what he does!

 

Perhaps you didn't meet her needs- but you're willing to do so now or try to anyway. You want to work on the marriage. Your EA wasn't justified earlier and hers isn't justified now. You both contributed to the problems in the marriage and yeah, you might have pushed her to the edge- but she made the leap. Don't forget that. She has to own that. Of course, she won't for a very long time but when she does the guilt of what she's done, especially to her children- is going to kill her. Trust me, I know. Even though I'm happier than I've ever been in my life with my second husband- I still regret the A that I had (my husband is not the OM) and the fact that I disrupted my childrens lives so I could be happy. Althought I'm certain I couldn't have continued to live with their dad and be sane. It's wierd. I hate what it's done to them- but could I have stayed?? I dunno- perhaps if he would have tried harder to mend things like you have.

 

She has no idea how it's going to feel to send her kids off to visitation with their dad- and her home be empty. No idea how it's going to feel when she celebrates her first Christmas alone without them because it's "your" Christmas. No idea what it will feel like for her kids to cry for her over the phone or say "Where's daddy?" No idea how it will feel down the line to send her kids over to a stepmother who might want to take her place. Just this week I've dealt with my exhusband's wife telling my 10 year old son what adultery is! That's just the tip of the iceberg as to the issues she's going to face- but doesn't know it. She thinks it's all gonna be wine and roses?? She's DELUDING herself! What about how it's going to feel when she only has $30.00 left after paying her rent and she has to buy food and gas for the week and she has her child at Walmart and cannot buy something for them that they want. When she has to sit up with a sick kid all alone and take care of the other ones without anyone to help you. What it will be like to alienate her friends and family with her behavior.

 

I could go on but you get the picture.....

[tallbrunettmom]

This is truely a sad story. I admire you for going and seeking counseling because men usually don't on their own. But I have to agree with the person who said...women don't usually go back once scorned. I had the same situation with an exfiance. Unfortunately I still loved my exfiance but too much had happened and I couldn't go back, I had met my now husband and moved on. I applaud you though for sticking with it. Maybe perseverence does conquer. Good luck.

[fraidycat]

Ok.. I am going to tell you some frank things here that you may or may have not heard/figured/known but please listein and know that I am not trying to slam you, I'm trying to make you realize how the car accident happened. As humans we have needs and we spend our whole lives cultivating ways and searching for what satisfies them. This situation is no different. Women are big on the emotional needs. We need to know that the man we love wants us, is attracted to us, is proud of us, misses us when we're gone. Is interested in our thoughts and feelings- the deep and the frivellous. It seems your interest in the meaningless and pointless sometimes means more to us even! Thinks we're awesome and spectacular! Appreciates us! That's what a woman needs, no matter how indepedent no matter how inter depedent. When we love a man, that's what we need back. To know those things. When we start to feel like we no longer have your attention the rejection is very very painful. Sooner or later we seek out ways to lick our wounds,In a lot of cases ends up coming in the form of another man Who makes us feel wanted, our thoughts and feelings validated, and satisfies the need that went without satisfaction in another relationship. I beleive men go through the same thing too, they may not like to talk about it but I'm sure it's just as important that their emotional needs are met as well! People in marriages and relationships don't stray from the partners and give their hearts to another person for the hell of it..they do it because they need to love and be loved.They say hunger is our most basic survival instict need but sometimes I think it's to love and be loved because we'll go about what means we have to, in order to get that. I beleive your wife wanted your attention..just your attention. She wanted YOu to be the guy who noticed her and listeined to her feelings of importance and petty meanderings all the same. You said you got into an emotional fling with someone, so I think you two probably wanted the same thing from one another just perhaps never came out and told one another? Bitterness, Resentment, in this light all stem from one thing- the pain of rejection. Your wife feels rejected by you. If somehow there were a way you could let her know otherwise then perhaps that wall of hate she's been building towards you just may come tumbling down. I don't know how you can do that, I don't know you or your wife but if anyone would know how, I think it may be you. I'm sure people here will disagree with me and say you're going in for a long shot,but her bittnerness and resentment towards you point to one other thing that must exist- her love for you, hidden underneath hurt feelings of rejection and neglected needs.

[DesperateDad]

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate it. I AM really worried that she's so adamant at this point. She hasn't been feeling right for several years and has been a different person entirely sometimes during the last few weeks.

 

LJ mentioned postpartum at one point and I think there might be something to that. My wife believes she may have had it after our twins were born almost 3 years ago, but refused to get treatment. I begged her to talk to me and if I couldn't help her, asked her to go talk to someone. She wouldn't do it.

 

She had a very difficult pregnancy and c-section with the twins and they were born 5 weeks early. Since that time, she's been different. Suffering from depressions and mood swings and complaining every day about having to watch the kids all day.

 

She had her gall bladder removed in an emergency surgery since then and had another c-section after a pregnancy that the doctor said would have killed her in another 2 days due to her uterus beginning to rupture. In the case of the gall bladder, the doctors told us she would also have died in another day or 2 due to sepsis.

 

So, I really think there are other factors at play here besides just emotional needs. I'm worried about her physical and mental health. She is just so different and her personality changes in an instant.

 

If you look back over some of the earlier posts, she's also talked about seeing/talking to spirits and seeing things moving by themselves. This is happening since she's starting taking some meditation classes where this sort of vision is encouraged.

 

I think she's very vulnerable right now and I'm scared. I don't want to lose her or the children and I'm just plain terrified. I don't understand what's going on with her.

[Ladyjane14]

I think she's very vulnerable right now and I'm scared. I don't want to lose her or the children and I'm just plain terrified. I don't understand what's going on with her.

 

Wobbly knees are understandable. Heck, I lost 20 pounds in a month on the "Infidelity Diet". I felt so sick that after awhile I could've cared less what my husband was doing, just so long as my stomach stopped doing the flippity-flop.

 

That's just normal stuff for a person who's under extreme stress. If you start getting a bunch of physical symptoms, you might want to see your doctor though. Just a thought.

 

Solemate had a good point earlier about lovebusting. It's absolutely essential that you refrain from it. I know WW caught you flat-footed at 1am...but stepping back from the situation, I bet you can see now how she was feeding the conflict. Conflict makes her position justifiable. Don't forget it for even a minute.

[DesperateDad]

You're both absolutely right, LJ. I was thinking about this and realized that I was using what I thought was logic and rational thinking as a weapon. It was a mistake for me to do that and hurt our relationship once again.

 

Yes, much of what I said was true, but it should not have come from me. Let her hear it from friends, family, therapist, whomever. Just not me. She's always hated being wrong and hates it most especially when she knows I'm right.

 

We've talked a little since the argument and agreed to not talk about our relationship unless things are changing. We're back to agreeing to stay together for the kids for now. She plans on making her own money somehow, but acknowledges that it may take some time and she may even have to wait for our youngest (1yo) to get into school first.

 

When I agreed that this couldn't go on indefinitely and that I didn't expect things to stay like this until all of our kids were out of school, she seemed relieved and reasonably okay with it. She also told me she understands why I have such a problem with the neighbor and why we can't be friends. I left it at that with no comment and will see what she does with it. I DO think reality is starting to sink in.

 

We should be starting counseling in the next couple of weeks. She was a little upset about it being religious because she expects they won't tell her what she wants to hear, but I assured her that they are MA level, licensed therapists and that they won't be making any decisions for us. I asked her to keep an open mind about it and she said let's just play it by ear. That seems to be the best I can hope for right now. Back to Plan A.

 

(I AM planning some nice things for Mother's Day and her birthday, which is next week. She has been responding pretty well to me doing nice things for her.)

[DesperateDad]

Also, thanks Mz. Pixie, tallbrunettmom and fraidycat for the good advice and nice thoughts. I really am listening and taking everything to heart. People who have cared enough to post here have made a real difference in my life all ready. Whether I'm successful or not in fixing my marriage, I'm committed to making positive changes in my life. Thank you all!

[Mz. Pixie]

Have you outlined for her that neither she nor you will be attending events where OM will be, that he's not to be around your kids or in your house or you will file a restraining order??

 

Basically, what she agreed to otherwise is I'm going to do what I want, but I'll keep living here- just don't expect much from me. That's basically it, without her saying it. She's not deciding to mend the marriage, or get away from OM- but she'll throw you a bone and keep living there. Any guesses as to why? She can't support herself now- and she needs help with the kids!

You're filling part of her EN's and he's filling the others. You need to cut off him filling any of them so you can fill them all!

 

Marriage counseling would be a must for her to stay. Otherwise you'll take care of the kids with the help of friends, family or a nanny and she can find another place to live and see OM. Once you push her to see the implications of her actions- and what she'll be giving up to get what she thinks she wants- she might change her mind.

 

As far as her mental state- how old is she? I'm just wondering if you've ever thought she could be scitzophrenic? I know I'm not spelling that correctly but basically they also hear voices and see things that are really not there. Google it and see what it says.

[DesperateDad]

Hi Mz. P. I haven't laid down the law since our talk the other night. I did express everything but the restraining order part and she seems to understand how I feel now.

 

I don't know what's going to happen next, but she does seem to be honestly rethinking her relationship with this guy. It hasn't gone so far with him that she can't turn back. He's even mentioned recently that he doesn't want to be involved in our ups and downs. I'm hoping he'll just go away if she doesn't cling to him. He also said a couple weeks ago that he'll probably have to sell his house later this year.

 

I know it may not be the best way of handling things, but I don't want to make any demands right now. I set us back the other night by allowing myself to be baited and also by acting like a pompous know-it-all.

 

I kind of feel like there's a door that's still open a crack and if I can just be cool (Plan A) for a while, the fantasy will disappear in a puff of smoke and she'll decide to work things out.

 

My neighborhood is much like LJ described in an earlier post, very social, and once people start seeing that the OM and I are avoiding each other, they will start to talk. I'm hoping that will help to put pressure on my W and OM to drop things.

 

The decision for her will end up being this: Am I ready to drop everything that's certain in my life, including everything good, for something that is completely uncertain and has a very good chance of being much worse?

 

I'm really trying to back off a little and focus on being the good guy because it feels like things are starting to move slightly more in my favor. Am I on the right track here?

[Mz. Pixie]

It's going to depend on her response. Actually it could go either way- and I've seen it go either way.

 

If she can run over you with this and carry on with him right under your nose she may end up losing respect for you. Women like a man they can respect.

 

Then on the other hand- she may respond to this- meeting her needs- being at home more etc.

 

It just depends on her- and you know her better than anyone.

 

However, in "Love Must be Tough" by James Dobson- which I read after I separated- they outline for you not to be walked on. It's funny, everything that the book tells you NOT to do, my exhusband did- which only pushed me away. But that was me. Have you read it yet? Might be a good read.