How Did You Feel Later...

[newbby]

SM,

 

Let me clear up what some people have misunderstood. I am thinking of telling her only as a last resort. If he doesn't let go when I say let go, then I will tell her. My aim is to get rid of him for once and for all without going underground where he can't find me - which he has in the past.

 

To put a slight twist to things, I have been the W in another life (or so it seems) and found myself betrayed by my H. Thinking back on it now, I wish someone would have told me. I would have been better prepared for the end when I found out later on that she moved in the day I moved out.

 

WW

hey ww,

i completely understand your reasons for wanting to tell her, and walk and a few others also seem to have an understanding, so please ignore the people who jump to conclusions about your motivations.

i know that even after only a short time with my mm, i also felt quite desperate. i knew he would never stop trying to contact me, and realised that it would be entirely up to me. i think that is the main problem for alot of ow, because no matter how strong you can be for a period of time, as soon as a weak period hits, you can bet your bottom dollar that mm will turn up.

it is much harder a relationship to walk away from, than most, as he never leaves, and your feelings dont change.

now, you could tell the wife, and that would certainly end the cycle. after ending the cycle in this way, you will be forced to deal with the end of this relationship. its advantage (and disadvantage) is that, you will have absolutely no choice in the matter. however, i am not sure that ultimately it would be the best way to deal with it. imagine two scenarios, one in which you tell her in desperation, an out of control act, stemming from having no apparent control in this relationship. this hurls you into having to work through the resulting loss emotions. again you are bouncing around, uncontrollably, but you do reach your goal, after a period of grief, which is to get over mm completely and be out of the situation. although telling the wife would be a choice that you made, and so ending the relationship would be a choice that you made, it still makes it a weak choice, and i dont know that you would feel good about yourself for it.

or, you could be very strong, very calm and very dignified. simply say "no" to mm. do everything and anything you can to improve every aspect of the rest of your life, and keep saying "no". the more you say it, the more you will realise that you can say it, without angry, desperate outbursts.

i really think that latter will make you feel better about yourself. there are some amazing self help books around. i dont know your life situation, but if you can, go on a yoga retreat or something. if you cant do that, practise at home. anything to give your life less stress, not more. i see that telling the wife only makes things more intense, more dramatic. perhaps in some way you are actually addicted to the drama of this relationship. most people are addicted to drama in some way. telling the wife actually makes this a more dramatic situation, and in no way breaks the addiction to it, although it will temporarily make it a physical impossibility to continue. however, without breaking your addiction to the drama of the relationship, i think it would make it very easily to either, continue the a after the dust has settled (quite common), or to go spinning from one destructive situation to another.

i think you need to add calm and serenity to your life, not stress. good luck, and much peace to you. i hope you find the answer you need.

[Wicked Wanda]

WOW, J! And I thought I had it rough...

 

It is quite drastic to leave the country, and if I had the money to do so, I would. But the most I could do is change my name, phone number, city and job. Friends have disappeared from my life as a result of all the moving around and also because of Blair. They just felt that he was bad news and couldn't understand why I wouldn't tell him to get lost once and for all. But of course, if you're not in that particular situation, you don't know what's happening. And I guess that some people believe that I have not been adamant enough. The best I could tell them is that some children do not accept no for answer....

[Wicked Wanda]

I'm practicing - believe me - 20 years of practice - and he's still coming back....

[movinon05]

I'm practicing - believe me - 20 years of practice - and he's still coming back....

 

Geez, I thought 8 years was bad. But 20? AcK!

[Jessie61]

 

WOW, J! And I thought I had it rough...

 

It is quite drastic to leave the country, and if I had the money to do so, I would. But the most I could do is change my name, phone number, city and job. Friends have disappeared from my life as a result of all the moving around and also because of Blair. They just felt that he was bad news and couldn't understand why I wouldn't tell him to get lost once and for all. But of course, if you're not in that particular situation, you don't know what's happening. And I guess that some people believe that I have not been adamant enough. The best I could tell them is that some children do not accept no for answer....

 

WW,

 

I agree, it was drastic to leave but I thought that I had had enough melodrama in one year to fill a lifetime. The opportunity to go abroad arose at a very convenient time, so I took it. I would not have felt "safe" just changing jobs because he knows where I live. If I bought a new house, he would find out where it is because we live in a relatively small city and we are in the same type of business with loads of acquaintances in common etc.

 

Yes, how do you deal with a child that simply will not take "no" for an answer????

[newbby]

you said in your other post that he was calling less, and had lost interest in sex. so is this the case, but he also refuses to let you go? it sounds as though you have almost taken on a wife no 2 position. he cant lose you, yet he wants to go out and play again.

you really need to gather some strength from the rest of your life. i know thats no easy task, and after 20 years, this relationship must be entrenched into your life. think of it as ending a marriage or something. really be kind to yourself. i know it is really not easy getting support from others in these situations and others generally tend to think that you have no right to grieve, but you do. so set yourself free, and enjoy it.

i think you are doing well with mm, and i dont think you need to tell the wife, just keep being firm. look deep within yourself for what keeps you in this relationship, because that is your real problem. you will probably find some fear that keeps you locked into it. face that fear and set yourself free.

[Wicked Wanda]

Newbby, I was married twice before and leaving both was much easier than this.... (and in case you're wondering, no he wasn't the reason for the breakup of either one). A therapist has not been able to help me either... I started seeing one shortly after we started.....

[Sami_D]

I have told him that after all the misery that he has put my through then I would not be able to guarantee that I won't lose the plot completely and ring the W if he misses the deadline and continues to pursue me afterwards.

 

Back to the question. Would I tell the W if he keeps pursuing me? No, I have no intention of doing that. Their M will end anyway, if it doesn't happen this year, it will happen next year.

 

There is also a strict deadline. If he misses it I will stay abroad where I am at the moment and that is the end of that! The deadline more or less coincides with the time when I expect to be able to commit by signing contracts etc, and once the papers are signed I will not be able to come back, just because it suits him. He knows also that I will not tolerate any contact from him after that date!

 

OK, the thing about telling the W or not... (the A bomb... lmao ) I don't think it's really important in your story, in itself, and I'm only talking about it because it's an example of how I think you're (maybe?) being wooly or uncertain with your message to him. (and I'll just add here that I was/am Exactly the same, so I'm not criticising you! Just pointing something out!)

 

I'll just say that from what you write here I'm sort of confused... you tell him you 'would not be able to guarantee' you wouldn't do it. Then you say to yourself/us that you 'have no intention' of doing it. Would you do it or not? I'm guessing he's as unclear or unlikely to believe you would as I am. It doesn't matter, as I say... what matters (I think) is that it's not clear. It might be an indication of how unclear you often are with him. I dunno.

 

What I'm thinking is... that while you keep telling him you 'won't be the OW'... you still are. Even just coffees and talking to him on the phone. You are giving him attention, love, affection, you're being there for him. I did exactly the same! And... he knows that every time you've gone NC in the past... he's been able to break it. 3,000 miles..? I don't know... does he have your address..?

 

OK, so far... so (me) rambling. But this:

 

"The deadline more or less coincides with the time when I expect to be able to commit by signing contracts etc."

 

THIS worries me. You know why..? Because if that deadline 'more or less' coincides with you having to make a big, important, new-life decision, it is dangerous. He could lie, he could fudge, he could do some kind of mental trickery... and you could be left having not signed these things and him still very much married and 'thinking about it'.

 

It also worries me because as you say yourself, he's acted badly, and like a selfish pig in the past. He's unlikely to suddenly act all respectfully and adult and selflessly because it's an important time for you.

 

So... I'd very much advise you to organise this deadline so that it's not in any way close to your signing important things.

[serial muse]

She may not want to know, just because you did, doesn't mean she will want to.

 

You are playing a very serious game here. You will destroy her life as she knows it and I'm not sure that it's up to you to decide - JUST because the MM won't leave you alone. YOU are the one with the power. STOP paying attention to him. STOP answering his calls/emails/or seeing him in person. Don't tell her just to get him off YOUR back.

 

Again, you can't ruin someone else's life like that. It just plain SUCKS.

 

Hey WWIU. Like I said in my post, I know that some people might not want to know. But I think it's worth noting that so many people who have been the BS said they would have.

 

I agree that telling the W because the MM won't leave her alone isn't a great reason. She knows she'll cause pain, and I think that will be difficult and will be something she'll have to shoulder. Her reasons for telling may or may not make the telling itself, and the aftermath, more palatable to the OW; it's a different thing to hurt another person out of the hope they'll extricate themselves from a bad situation vs. out of anger/spite/the need to lash out or even out of desperation. I think that, if she just wants the MM to really leave her alone, there are probably other ways to ensure he does (changing her number, for instance).

 

But you know, dealing with motive is really the OW's issue, in the end. Because the OW's motive won't ultimately make a great deal of difference to the BS. It only matters to the OW. And I guess that's what I was trying to say.

 

I also want to point out that if we're talking about "ruining" someone's life, the damage has, in a sense, already been done. Although actually, I don't think her life would necessarily be ruined - but yes, her marriage might be.

 

True, creating that division between partners but hiding it indefinitely is a different kind of damage than having it out in the open. But my personal opinon - and it's just that - is that I would like to make the decision for myself whether the marriage is right for me, given that information. And a lot of people do feel that way.

[Jessie61]

 

(the A bomb... lmao )

 

I'll just say that from what you write here I'm sort of confused... you tell him you 'would not be able to guarantee' you wouldn't do it. Then you say to yourself/us that you 'have no intention' of doing it.

 

What I'm thinking is... that while you keep telling him you 'won't be the OW'... you still are. Even just coffees and talking to him on the phone. You are giving him attention, love, affection, you're being there for him.

 

"The deadline more or less coincides with the time when I expect to be able to commit by signing contracts etc."

 

THIS worries me. You know why..? Because if that deadline 'more or less' coincides with you having to make a big, important, new-life decision, it is dangerous. He could lie, he could fudge, he could do some kind of mental trickery... and you could be left having not signed these things and him still very much married and 'thinking about it'.

 

Sami,

 

Thanks for your comments! Don't worry, I don't take anything as criticism (or bashing!). I appreciate an outsider's point of view, because I end up second guessing myself an awful lot, not trusting my own judgement and questioning everything; almost all sets of facts can be interpreted in many different ways, so how do you know if you are interpreting them the right way???? That is what 2 years as an OW will do to you!

 

I'd like to think that I am clear in my message to him, but I could of course be mistaken.

 

I said to MM that I could not "guarantee anything" re: telling the wife if he breaks the deadline and then continues to pursue me. I didn't want to say that I would ring his W because I didn't want to sound like a fruit cake because I'm not. But I think the so called threat is there anyway? HE does obviously not know that I have no intention of actually doing anything, because that would defeat the whole purpose. I just wanted him to FOCUS before he made any flippant promises that he won't be able to keep. I wanted him to think it through. Anyway, there have been moments when I have been far from lucid and rational, so I do think that he knows that he is reaching the end of my patience. He says that he understands, but only time will tell? Like I told you before, Sami, seeing is believing....

 

Am I still the OW despite telling him that I will not be anymore? Yes and no. No, in the sense that since I decided that enough is enough, I have never again accepted the situation, and I have demanded that if he wants me then he can't have her also. And I have taken these steps to get away from him. Now I don't actually see him at all. But of course you are also right, yes I am still the OW until the deadline expires because I am here at the end of a phone line. Why? Because a part of me does believe him despite everything that has been going on! He wasn't ready then, but I think he is ready now... Am I a fool? Probably, but I will soon find out, won't I?

 

As for the deadline, the deal is that he has to LEAVE before this particular date. And that is a matter of fact, isn't it? There will be no more thinking about it, and I will not accept any excuses, including death or disease. I will not discuss even a 10 minute extension of the deadline. And this deadline expires slightly before my own deadlines vis-a-vis the business....

 

How will things turn out? I really don't know! Will he let me down? Dunno. Will he respect my wishes for NC if he doesn't? Dunno that either! At least I am here now in a new environment where it is much easier for me to think. Had I stayed at home, then I would have been a drooling idiot at this stage.

 

In the meantime, I do appreciate any comments that you wish to make! Even criticism!!!! So knock yourself out!

[Jessie61]

 

OK, the thing about telling the W or not... (the A bomb... lmao )

 

By the way, what does "lmao" stand for??? My brain is NOT functioning well at the moment....

[Sami_D]

In the meantime, I do appreciate any comments that you wish to make! Even criticism!!!! So knock yourself out!

 

I think you're doing really well LOL. (lmao = laughing my ass off, btw.)

 

Only... yes, you are still the OW even if it's 'just' on the phone. I have been for 4 months! I only said that because someone pointed out to me when I said 'but what is he gaining from staying in this situation, we're not even meeting!?!?!?' ... she said... 'he gets to know you're there for him, sweetcheeks'. And she was SO right. And he even said the same thing Thursday morning... that me 'being there' for him was stopping him acting.

 

So... I bring this up because I think you may have to do something like go NC for a while, and stick to it, before this deadline. Simply because if your MM is anything like mine, a million years of 'I refuse to be the OW' doesn't make a scrap of difference if you still actually are there for them.

 

I mean... staying in contact with him now... is it helping him get nearer to leaving? What's he saying now about where he's at mentally?

 

Leaving it to him to 'understand' that you mean what you say when you say 'it's over'... might be giving him too much credit... you know... I don't think they actually believe it till it happens.

 

And even then... your MM might believe you will still crumble later?

 

Just some thoughts, anyway!

[Jessie61]

 

I think you're doing really well LOL. (lmao = laughing my ass off, btw.)

 

Only... yes, you are still the OW even if it's 'just' on the phone. I have been for 4 months! I only said that because someone pointed out to me when I said 'but what is he gaining from staying in this situation, we're not even meeting!?!?!?' ... she said... 'he gets to know you're there for him, sweetcheeks'. And she was SO right. And he even said the same thing Thursday morning... that me 'being there' for him was stopping him acting.

 

So... I bring this up because I think you may have to do something like go NC for a while, and stick to it, before this deadline. Simply because if your MM is anything like mine, a million years of 'I refuse to be the OW' doesn't make a scrap of difference if you still actually are there for them.

 

I mean... staying in contact with him now... is it helping him get nearer to leaving? What's he saying now about where he's at mentally?

 

Leaving it to him to 'understand' that you mean what you say when you say 'it's over'... might be giving him too much credit... you know... I don't think they actually believe it till it happens.

 

And even then... your MM might believe you will still crumble later?

 

Just some thoughts, anyway!

 

 

Sami,

 

Thank you for explaining that, lmao!

 

Yes, I am here propping up the poor sod, but only until the deadline. After that I want NO contact with him, even if he does end up leaving his wife. This is where I think our approaches are different? I will try to help him out, because I think he needs the support while he is doing it. It also allows me to gauge his moods and attitudes while he is doing what he is doing. This way I will know if the backtracking starts (it has happened before!) and I will call the whole thing off - with no come back! The deadline without the comeback also gives me the certainty that it is the end, I can sign the contracts the week or so after, and it will be irrelevant if he does leave her because I will no longer be available. I could not live with the uncertainty of not knowing what is going on "chez lui" or IF he's going to come back with good news some day.

 

But you are right, my MM is a clone of yours. Without there periods of NC, there is NO way that we would be where we are now! He has only realised what he has been missing when I haven't been around. (We have had a good few 4 or 5 week NC's - which you know yourself feel like 10 years! The longest was 6 or 7 weeks.) But the difference between our respective MM's is that mine is more likely to do it with me around. He's like a lost puppy sometimes, and then it is a case of "the blind leading the blind!" since I am no expert at breaking up marriages!!!! (Yes, that was a poor attempt at black humour...!)

 

And I do sense a huge difference in him this time around. Previously when he has tried to talk to the W about a separation, then he has panicked as soon as she has sulked. He was so guilty about hurting her and the kids. What would his family say? Would his friends abandon him? Would she take him to the cleaners? Now, he shrugs his shoulders at these things and seem to accept them as necessary evils; he says that the next 12 months will be terrible but still easy compared to living the next 30 years like he has done for the last 10 years... He has told his parents that he is leaving her and they are sad about it but they have supported him. His told a few friends and they say the same thing. He has put a bid on a house where he will live afterwards. He has told her that he no longer loves her. So far she is refusing to discuss it but she is coming around to the idea. I think there is a difference in him. BUT seeing is believing!!!!

 

However, the end of your posts does actually concern me... I might be giving him too much credit? Yes, but I dare say that I will have a few hissy fits before the deadline expires making him think that I AM a lunatic after all!!! And hopefully that will convince him? Would I crumble?? I certainly hope not! But if I did, would somebody please shoot me???? No, honestly and seriously, I am slightly concerned about it. I can only hope that things will work out because I haven't a clue what I would do if they don't, ie if this limbo situation continues!! (At this stage, I almost don't care if he leaves her or not, as long as I am out of it!)

 

Answers on a post card please!!!!

[Sami_D]

lol Jessie... I think you're going to do alright!

[Jessie61]

lol Jessie... I think you're going to do alright!

 

Cheers!!!!

[lovernotafighter]

 

Yes, but I dare say that I will have a few hissy fits before the deadline expires making him think that I AM a lunatic after all!!! And hopefully that will convince him?

 

my MM I believe thinks I have a crazy streak.

 

since he is supervisor where I work for the last 2 years he has seen a side of me that no one has..the nuts-o one. Ive also told him some pretty wild stories of my bottled up rage...I wondered if it would detour him..but nope.

 

hell hath no fury like a woman scorned ehh?

[Jessie61]

hell hath no fury like a woman scorned ehh?

 

Yes, let's hope my MM remembers that line if he lets me down, eh??? He would be too scared to come after me after that????

[Wicked Wanda]

Unfortunately, they don't remember. I recently sent that quote to Blair after a flury of e-mails telling me how much he missed me.... But it certainly did not stop him!

 

"Heav'n has no rage like love to hatred turn'd

Nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorn'd "

 

Must be short term memory...

[lovernotafighter]

no these guys don't remember zilch.

 

my MM sometimes acts like he either wants me to do something nuts or he only has a half a brain.

 

guys...they are a real mystery to me

 

(I like the full quote WW)

[Sami_D]

What I think... if you are with someone for years... and they really get to you and you're at your wits end when they won't leave you alone but you still haven't dropped the A bomb

 

And then you say 'hell hath no fury'.

 

Well, hell evidently does have plenty more furies than a woman so soft she sticks around for years and then still doesn't want to upset his life.

 

He doesn't believe you because... well... you're not going to be a furie.

[Jessie61]

What I think... if you are with someone for years... and they really get to you and you're at your wits end when they won't leave you alone but you still haven't dropped the A bomb

 

And then you say 'hell hath no fury'.

 

Well, hell evidently does have plenty more furies than a woman so soft she sticks around for years and then still doesn't want to upset his life.

 

He doesn't believe you because... well... you're not going to be a furie.

 

 

Yes, there is a grain of truth in what you're saying...

 

But IF you eventually crack after years of frustration and provocation, then they will STILL turn around, scratch their little heads and wonder "Where did that come out of???" They will STILL think that YOU are "the psycho killer" even though you're not!!!!

 

HELP!!!! What is a "woman scorn'd" to do???? :confused:

[Jessie61]

 

Must be short term memory...

 

Peanut sized brain, perhaps...???

[Sami_D]

Hell hath no fury... this is from two women who have admitted they wouldn't tell the wife whatever he did.

 

UM... no wonder he doesn't belive you. As I said before.. send him all the poetic quotations you like... he doesn't 'belive you' because... it's not true.

 

He's not a fool. YOU are. You expect him to belive your 'ultimatums'... they are worth nothing.. and then you go on blaming him. PAH.

[Wicked Wanda]

Umh, Sami... he doesn't know that I wouldn't tell... I've never told him that I wouldn't... pre and post quote...

[Sami_D]

Somehow... he knows. And it's true... you wouldn't tell. You said as much here so... why expect him to believe you would...?