My first black eye

[suga]

Yeah you may have stayed but not going "oh I hope he continues to hit me and abuse me!"...mabey you are a fool but it doesnt mean its your fault...and if anyone hits you anywhere you probably will hit back because it pissed you off...duh.

[suga]

I sincerely believe this, and knowledge about yourself and your choices is more empowering than coddling someone and telling them it's not their fault.

 

And I will no dehumanize an abusive man. The study of psychology is about human behavior. I know there are men out there who calculate their behaviors, but people for the most part do not understand their emotions that intimately, and I highly doubt an abusive person could exercise THAT much control.

 

And I am the one that let it get that far.

 

I could hav exited that relationship with my dignity intact, and I CHOSE NOT TO.

 

ok this says to me that he abused you and you highly doubt that an abusive person could exercise that much control...but you let it go that far and you chose it.

 

Oh you just coddled HIM though.

 

You are fighting being the victim that people tell you that you imposed on your self...IMO...you want to prove that you did not ask for their sympathy...to the point that you will take all responsibility and give him no responsibility...instead blame his emotional trauma blah blah blah...I would stop reading so many books that tell you what to think about it...you need to not listen to others so much and start being honest with yourself that you did not want this...but only took it...praying it would change...foolishly yes.

[whichwayisup]

Huh? Did I miss something here Suga? I think you're mixing up B_O with the original poster...

[suga]

Blind Otter said she was abused also...this is of concern to the original poster though I think.

 

But she is right I think in that some women do have to relize they have a problem if they are going around "TRYING" to provoke men to hit them and become the victim.

 

I know there are cases of this victim role where people need to feal sorry for themselves wanting attention...one women kept having children and suffocating them blaming sudden instant death syndrom just so that people could be sorry for her...now that is a bit of an extreme example but it is a real mental illness to act on those fealings all the time.

[tinktronik]

I've read several posts here about whether you are a victim if you hit back. The only time you are a victim that hits back is if it is to escape not to escalate (provoke)the situation.There are certainly women who provoke men intentionally to violence .I grew up watching my mother place herself into the path of men trying to escape with no violence untill they had no recourse but to try and physically remove her or stop her from abusing them . This is not the same as hitting someone after they have hit you .However hitting back and then not leaving is simply escalation of the situation , you are attempting to victimize yourself.

[blind_otter]

ok this says to me that he abused you and you highly doubt that an abusive person could exercise that much control...but you let it go that far and you chose it.

 

Oh you just coddled HIM though.

 

You are fighting being the victim that people tell you that you imposed on your self...IMO...you want to prove that you did not ask for their sympathy...to the point that you will take all responsibility and give him no responsibility...instead blame his emotional trauma blah blah blah...I would stop reading so many books that tell you what to think about it...you need to not listen to others so much and start being honest with yourself that you did not want this...but only took it...praying it would change...foolishly yes.

 

No that's not what I was saying at all.

 

I think we both have problems. I am not excusing his behavior, but I'm not excusing MINE either. I escalated the situation, and I think this is the issue.

 

A lot of women in abuive relationships come from backgrounds of abuse, and in turn, they have a f***ed up sense of what is "normal" when it comes to conflict. They never learn how to deal with conflict appropriately, calmly, rationally, and without objectifying the person you are in conflict with.

 

If anyone comes from a background of abuse, and never learned appropriate conflict management skills, then it logically follows that they are unable to handle conflict as an adult unless they learn the appropriate skills to use in conflict management.

 

It takes two people to have a fight. If that fight escalates to violence, and both people are hitting each other -- at that point, they BOTH need to look at what they did to contribute to the conflict, and what they each INDIVIDUALLY did to make it get worse.

 

It seems like, to you, there are two types of abused women. (1)Those that sit there passively, never speaking up, or never saying anything argumentative or rude or cruel or attacking, and are just victims and pawns of violence; (2) and the crazy ones that instigate s*** just to get hit so they can be seen as victims.

 

A quick review of anecdotal evidence, which you seem to lean on, barring scientifically gathered data in controlled studies, would indicate that there is a panoply of abuse victims. Male, female, adult, child -- and different relationship contexts for each of these, and different situational elements, for each individual.

 

IMO it takes courage to admit what you contribute to a situation. It takes courage to look at the situation dispassionately and objectively, analyzing not only your role as a victim, but the ways that you victimize yourself.

 

Women in abusive relationships often are just pantomiming what they learned as children. That they were objects, unworthy of love and protection, and that they have no worth in and of themselves. Feeling this way, can make a person behave in such a manner that others will reflect that attitude back to them, it's called eliciting behaviors.

[suga]

OMG when Im being strangled to where I cant breath Im not thinking let me see how I can be a mature adult about this without welling up all my childhood traumas...Im not thinking anything but OMG I cant breath so I kick him as hard as I can accross the room...does that stop him?...no...he comes right back and this continues...when he beats me for 3 hours straight until I black in and out Im not fighting back and antagonizing him...he is a f***ing a**h*** and Im sorry for you to tell me that all women are responsible for this behavior Im not gonna accept that...yes I am foolish for staying because I worshiped him and thought nothing of myself...I let him control me...this has nothing to do with child hood trauma...it has to do with him being an a**h*** control freak who doesnt respect women because he chooses not to...and my part has more to do with me not respecting myself and choosing to be with someone who only confirms that...I am not to blame for his beating me to any extent at all...I am only to blame for staying...I did not want him to hurt me...I was tore down at that point in my life...I became a basket case...ok so Im no longer in that situation because I got out...so Im not a victim.

[suga]

A quick review of anecdotal evidence, which you seem to lean on, barring scientifically gathered data in controlled studies, would indicate that there is a panoply of abuse victims. Male, female, adult, child -- and different relationship contexts for each of these, and different situational elements, for each individual.

 

 

I really dont want to get into the discussion of childhood victimization and the trauma it brings into your adult life...I was only talking about domestic abuse...how is blaming being a childhood victim going to prove that these women arent victims?

[blind_otter]

that all women are responsible for this behavior Im not gonna accept that...

 

You missed my point, yet again. Sorry, but I can't keep explaining the same thing over and over again.

 

I didn't claim what you wrote above, at all. It's my feeling that you are projecting personal issues onto this thread, and are not really reading the content of what I am writing, but to say that I am implicating the women is ridiculous.

 

I was strangled, too. Until I passed out. The first thing I did, upon waking, was to call the police. The situation did not escalate into me being beaten for three hours.

[blind_otter]

I really dont want to get into the discussion of childhood victimization and the trauma it brings into your adult life...I was only talking about domestic abuse...how is blaming being a childhood victim going to prove that these women arent victims?

 

The above statement is totally self-contradictory.

 

If you don't want to get into that discussion, don't ask a question requesting more information on a topic that you already indicated you did not want to discuss.

[suga]

It was basically a question to how would that be productive...and no I dont know all the stuff you have been reading in psycology books...all I know is my situation...sorry its all I have to go by.

[blind_otter]

It was basically a question to how would that be productive...and no I dont know all the stuff you have been reading in psycology books...all I know is my situation...sorry its all I have to go by.

 

"all this stuff" i read in psychology books years ago, when I was getting my degree.

 

I realize you have your own situation to go by. I wasn't attacking you, but you kept replying back and arguing against points that I didn't even make. I did not once say "if a woman is abused, it's her fault." I never said it, I challenge you to read over what I wrote and find that.

 

I was pointing out that abused women will take over for their abuser, and victimize themselves. And my first step in healing was recognizing what I did to abuse myself.

 

It's ok for you to believe otherwise, but acknowledge that and let it go.

 

And clearly, if you ask whether a point made would be productive, that invites further discussion. When you state that you don't want to discuss something, stick to that determination and don't press for clarification because it will inevitably lead to a discussion on the topic that you said you did not want to discuss.

[suga]

If you want to explain Im not going to argue any further.

 

I have my point of view about things...I really dont believe that anyone playing innocent to life "I have never done anything wrong in my entire life or I have a better excuse than everyone else for not being perfect" is full of s***...sorry to have misunderstood you...hell I dont even know all those big words you used so Im just gonna leave it alone...Im a dumbass...and you have a degree.

 

I stand by my opinion even if it did not apply to what you said.

[Guest]

I think that I played a very active role in provoking that violence. The way that the men reacted was wrong, definately, but can I expect a herculian level of self control, when I am provoking someone with all my might, without thinking about the consequences, or the fact that everyone -- including me -- has a breaking point?

 

Just wanted to refresh your memory...hey you asked.

[Guest]

did not[/b] once say "if a woman is abused, it's her fault." I never said it, I challenge you to read over what I wrote and find that.

 

 

Well since you asked I guess I will be up to the challenge.