Would you sign a prenu?

[sairasworld2000]

October 31, 2005 was the happiest day of my life. That was the day my boyfriend proposed to me. We had met in university. I was attending Business School and he was completing a Bachelor of Physical Education. I come from a working class background with loving parents who always insisted on getting an education and being the best I could be. My partner is an only child of a high-society family who knows he can always depend on the generosity of his widowed mother.

 

After two years of dating we moved in together. I ignored the advice of my family and friends; they all said “If he’s getting it for free whenever he wants, what motive will he have for marrying you?” But they didn’t know my beau, I did! Just as I predicted, almost four years to the day that we met, he proposed.

 

I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I could not imagine being happier than how I was that day. We set the date for October 29 of this year. At first I thought to myself “I have to wait a whole year?” Well it was a good thing we did because I had absolutely no idea what was involved in planning for a wedding. The occasion has taken on a life all its own to the extent that we now simply refer to it as “The Day”. I spend a minimum of 60 hours a week at my job as a project manager at a large construction firm and that takes almost all my time and energy. So every day I thank God for my mother and sister who have jumped into this project headfirst. Life couldn’t have been more perfect; then came last weekend.

 

We went out for our usual Saturday evening to our usual neighborhood pub with our usual two best friends who, I should add, were introduced by us and are now inseparable. By about midnight we had all had quite a bit to drink; we were doing a lot of talking, laughing, and even singing. For the life of me I don’t know how we got on to the subject but all of a sudden we were talking about prenuptial agreements. The “P” word!

 

One of our mates, in a half-joking manner, blurted out “So what do you guys think about them?” I was still laughing at an earlier joke when my fiancé exclaimed “I wouldn’t be averse to one.” All I can say is that, for me, time came to a complete stop. I felt confused, embarrassed, and angry all at the same time. But all I could manage was a fake smile and try to pretend that his response had no impact, although I could literally feel all the blood rushing from my face.

 

I felt dizzy and sick to my stomach. I managed to prop myself up from the table and excuse myself to the washroom. I’ve always considered myself to be a strong and independent woman, but I am not ashamed to say that I found myself a vacant stall and broke down in tears. I could not, for the life of me, imagine what was going through his head. Was he serious? Was he joking? What could he possibly be thinking? I was the one making the money. I was the one with a clear and promising career path. What did he have to protect other than a large inheritance that might not come anytime soon? For a fleeting moment I considered postponing or even canceling the wedding. The Day was still five months away but already a lot of money and effort had been expended, and all the guests had already been forewarned so that they could arrange their schedules around it.

 

I decided that I was overreacting and that the alcohol had probably impaired my thinking. After all, not once had he given me any reason to doubt his loyalty. And since we’ve been together, I’ve never even seen him glance at another woman. So I composed myself as best I could and returned to the table. They all asked if I was alright to which I answered “yes” but they all knew I was lying. It was then that our friends said they had an early appointment the next day so we all left the pub together.

 

As soon as we got to our car I asked my fiancé what he meant by his statement. Feigning ignorance, he had the audacity to ask “I said a lot of things throughout the evening. What statement are you referring to?” When I reminded him of the statement in question, he said “Well you know, I just thought that in some situations it would provide protection for both people, especially since you are the one with the great job and all. Lots of people do it. Just because you love someone with all your heart doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be practical about it.”

 

I told him that for me, even considering a prenuptial agreement was no different than planning for a breakup. I told him that my parents have been married for 30 years and if they ever heard that I signed such an agreement they would have a heart attack. It was then that I asked him point blank “Do you expect me to sign a prenuptial agreement?”

 

After about five seconds which to me seemed like an eternity he said “Well, I haven’t given it much thought. I guess you don’t think it’s such a good idea.” We didn’t say another word that night. The one thing I didn’t want to say was that if he insisted on a prenuptial agreement then he can have his engagement ring back. I thought about it all that night, the next day, and every minute of every day since. So what’s the big deal about a prenup anyway? Am I overreacting? Lots of people have one, and a lot of people who don’t have one probably wish they did.

 

We have not discussed the matter since that night. Our wedding is still on schedule. But somehow I feel that things are not the same. My mother has asked me if anything is wrong. I always tell her that work is stressing me out. My mother was not given an opportunity for a higher education but she is one of the smartest people I know. Mothers always know!

 

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not using this medium to solicit the advice of others. I think each person in my situation should do what they are comfortable with. I am recounting this story because I know there are women out there who don’t know it yet but they could be in this same predicament and they should be prepared.

[bab]

sairasworld,

I know that you didn't ask for advice, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents anyway.

 

Most men (yes, I'm generalizing here) aren't as sentimental as their female counterparts. Yes, he loves you and is excited to marry you. It probably doesn't occur to him that a prenup puts any kind of damper on that. And the fact of the matter is, to him, it probably doesn't.

 

And his answer about not giving it much thought, is probably honest. Probably it hadn't occurred to him until that night, and he just because he wasn't against it, doesn't mean he HAS to have one.

 

You stated rightly that each person should do what they are comfortable with. That's just it. Your fiance is comfortable with prenups, and it probably didn't occur to him that you wouldn't be. You guys need to talk about this. It could be nothing. You mentioned that he came from "high-society". I don't actually know, but I would imagine that prenups are more common there, so he is comfortable with them, and doesn't have bad connotations associated with them. Just don't take it personally. I'm sure he doesn't mean for you too.

 

You said you've never doubted his loyalty before. Good. Keep it that way. I'm sure that this won't be the last time that you view things differently, and possibly drastically differently as in this case. You are different people, it's gonna happen. Try and see things from his point of view. I'm not saying that you should agree with him, but try and see things from his point of view for the sole purpose of not being offended by them. Then, explain CALMLY to him your point of view. You might be suprised. Maybe you'll get a, "I never thought of it that way. If you are uncomfortable with it, no biggie, I don't need one."

 

Good luck planning your wedding, and future marriage!!

[Woggle]

Any man who does not make his wife sign a prenup is a moron. How does he know you won't walk out on him, take the kids, ruin hin financially and generally make his life miserable. Sure you may not be like that but many many women are and this is his protection against it.

[dgiirl]

Woggle, that's moronic. Just because YOUR wife left you, doesnt mean all women will. In fact, MY ex left me, and thank god i didnt have a prenup, I would have been screwed.

 

Sairas, I think you are overreacting. Your bf didnt bring the topic up, someone else did. He didnt ask you to sign a prenup, so I dont think he's thinking about the breakup of your relationship. My exh, on the other hand, brought the topic up himself! I should have overreacted. It should have been a red flag to me, but it wasnt. You cannot predict the future. I have a feeling the stress of your wedding is clouding your judgement. If you are happy with your bf, then dont overreact. If he ASKS you to sign one, then you are free to say no.

[Guitar Wizard]

Any man who does not make his wife sign a prenup is a moron. How does he know you won't walk out on him, take the kids, ruin hin financially and generally make his life miserable. Sure you may not be like that but many many women are and this is his protection against it.

 

Moron is a little more harsh then I would have classified, I would prefer the term "Loveblind", but I nevertheless agree, there is nothing wrong with having one, especially if his mom kicks the bucket and leaves him a big heaping pile of cash. He just wants to make sure that your not after his pocketbook, and regardless of how "Betrayed" you feel, you can't blame him because in todays world you just can't tell who you can trust anymore.

[Woggle]

Woggle, that's moronic. Just because YOUR wife left you, doesnt mean all women will. In fact, MY ex left me, and thank god i didnt have a prenup, I would have been screwed.

 

Sairas, I think you are overreacting. Your bf didnt bring the topic up, someone else did. He didnt ask you to sign a prenup, so I dont think he's thinking about the breakup of your relationship. My exh, on the other hand, brought the topic up himself! I should have overreacted. It should have been a red flag to me, but it wasnt. You cannot predict the future. I have a feeling the stress of your wedding is clouding your judgement. If you are happy with your bf, then dont overreact. If he ASKS you to sign one, then you are free to say no.

 

There is a 50% divorce rate in this nation and women do 75% of the filing. Just look at all the heartbroken men in the seperation and divorce forum. Women tend to walk at the drop of a hat so men need to be prepared just in case. A prenup is divorce insurance for men and if a woman really loves a man she will have no problem signing it.

[Guitar Wizard]

There is a 50% divorce rate in this nation and women do 75% of the filing. Just look at all the heartbroken men in the seperation and divorce forum. Women tend to walk at the drop of a hat so men need to be prepared just in case. A prenup is divorce insurance for men and if a woman really loves a man she will have no problem signing it.

 

Once again, good answer

[catgirl1927]

There is a 50% divorce rate in this nation and women do 75% of the filing. Just look at all the heartbroken men in the seperation and divorce forum. Women tend to walk at the drop of a hat so men need to be prepared just in case. A prenup is divorce insurance for men and if a woman really loves a man she will have no problem signing it.

 

 

Although I don't agree with Woggles "All women are evil bitches out to hurt men" philosophy, I do think the OP is WAY overreacting. There is nothing wrong with a prenup. It protects women AND men. You know, Woggles anti-woman stance aside, there is also a chance that YOU will come into a large amount of money. What if he bolts and tries to take all of your money? It's a possibility. Divorce really changes people, they do things they thought they never would. I myself was amazed AT myself, it's like I went crazy. You just never know. A prenup isn't planning to break up, although I can why a very young person might think it is. All may be fair in love and war, but you need to be really careful with money.

[dgiirl]

There is a 50% divorce rate in this nation and women do 75% of the filing

 

Dont believe all stats. How many of those women who filed, filed because their husbands ABANDONDED them? I filed after 5 months after my ex just came home one day and left the next without ever telling me there was a problem, in fact he denied it and reassured me everything was fine, then came home on valentines day, drops the dbomb out of nowhere and moved out the next day. There was never any attempt at reconcilation or anything. So please realize that women are not the only ones who abandon ship without any remorse or effort to fix the relationship.

[Woggle]

Dont believe all stats. How many of those women who filed, filed because their husbands ABANDONDED them? I filed after 5 months after my ex just came home one day and left the next without ever telling me there was a problem, in fact he denied it and reassured me everything was fine, then came home on valentines day, drops the dbomb out of nowhere and moved out the next day. There was never any attempt at reconcilation or anything. So please realize that women are not the only ones who abandon ship without any remorse or effort to fix the relationship.

 

I never said there were not exceptions. Your case is the exception but most cases it is the woman leaving to go find herself and be on her own. A man needs protection in this common situation.

[Guitar Wizard]

Dont believe all stats.

 

... What's that supposed to mean? It's not like he said that 100% of the time girls devorce the guy, or file the paper or whatever. His stats just say that more often then not, the girl IS the one to file for devorce, he's not saying guys don't do it too.

 

And your more inclined to believe that the stats are wrong just because you are a girl that filed for devorce, that's human nature for you.

[dgiirl]

I'm just pointing out that you really dont know what that stat MEANS. It simply says that 75% of the women file. It doesnt say 75% of the women leave.

 

As for signing a prenup, i would NEVER sign one. To me, marriage is about building a life together. Whatever I make and whatever he makes goes into one pot for both our futures. To me, this is what marriage is about, building and sharing a life together. And if my spouse doesnt believe in this, I shouldnt marry him in the first place. My exh didnt believe this. I was young and naive and thought it wouldnt matter. It did.

 

However, atleast where I live, I dont think his inheritance would be an issue. She cant get it since it's a GIFT. And anything they bring into the marriage, they keep. It's only what they make during the marriage that needs to be split.

[Guitar Wizard]

I'm just pointing out that you really dont know what that stat MEANS. It simply says that 75% of the women file. It doesnt say 75% of the women leave.

 

As for signing a prenup, i would NEVER sign one. To me, marriage is about building a life together. Whatever I make and whatever he makes goes into one pot for both our futures. To me, this is what marriage is about, building and sharing a life together. And if my spouse doesnt believe in this, I shouldnt marry him in the first place. My exh didnt believe this. I was young and naive and thought it wouldnt matter. It did.

 

However, atleast where I live, I dont think his inheritance would be an issue. She cant get it since it's a GIFT. And anything they bring into the marriage, they keep. It's only what they make during the marriage that needs to be split.

 

Well, see I get your "Marriage should be sacred and holy and bla bla bla" thing, but in today’s world you never know what your going to get. A prenup is nothing more then a precaution in case your SO turns out to be a giant ho-bag. And statistics are nothing more then factual numbers, and we each interpret them in our own way. Because you got screwed over, your interpretation is flawed by your bad experience, and therefore your judgement is clouded by your bad past. That is of course my opinion, nothing more.

 

Anyway, a prenup is a logical solution intended to protect the people involved in marriage, and don’t say that she can’t hose him in the end if he doesn’t get a prenup, because if the have children, there are plenty of ways that she can cut open his piggy bank with the right lawyers. Justice is blind, after all.

[dgiirl]

And statistics are nothing more then factual numbers, and we each interpret them in our own way. Because you got screwed over, your interpretation is flawed by your bad experience, and therefore your judgement is clouded by your bad past.

 

No, I'm reading the stats litterally, word for word. It says 75% FILE, not leave. You guys are using that to prove that women are the ones who usually leave, based on your own bad experience.

[Guitar Wizard]

No, I'm reading the stats litterally, word for word. It says 75% FILE, not leave. You guys are using that to prove that women are the ones who usually leave, based on your own bad experience.

 

Well, how can you rationalize who is right and who is wrong in this issue? Your saying that the entire sum of that 75% were justified? Heck, are you even trying to say that a large hunk of the 75% is justified? Perhaps your blind to how terrable the world is getting, and it's only getting worse.

 

Anyway, the divorce thing is just another fact of why a prenup is a good idea, which is the topic at hand. Not how many girls you think filed for devorce for the "Right reasons".

[catgirl1927]

Well, how can you rationalize who is right and who is wrong in this issue? Your saying that the entire sum of that 75% were justified? Heck, are you even trying to say that a large hunk of the 75% is justified? Perhaps your blind to how terrable the world is getting, and it's only getting worse.

 

Anyway, the divorce thing is just another fact of why a prenup is a good idea, which is the topic at hand. Not how many girls you think filed for devorce for the "Right reasons".

 

Wow. Can you be a little more condescending? She's right, you know.

 

You only think the world is terrible because there are women in it and you're very angry with all women right now because you've been hurt. Women may be the ones who go to the courthouse and file the papers the most often, but women are NOT alone in their fault for divorce. That's just a ridiculous implication.

[Guitar Wizard]

Wow. Can you be a little more condescending? She's right, you know.

 

You only think the world is terrible because there are women in it and you're very angry with all women right now because you've been hurt. Women may be the ones who go to the courthouse and file the papers the most often, but women are NOT alone in their fault for divorce. That's just a ridiculous implication.

 

First off, Im not angry at the female race. I judge each person by their actions.

 

Yes, I understand "It Takes Two to Tango", but most of my judgement of divorce such is that females usually clean up on a divorce, and given the right laywers they can praticly have the guys balls cut off and served on a platter. Yes, I understand that is not always the case, and there are many many exceptions, im not saying there arn't, im merely stating that more often then not the female in a marrage is the one to leave for the hell of it, and soak up some money and split then the guy is. That's all.

 

And why not? The court system give females the advantage for being a classified minority, (Thanks law system!).

 

And I don't think the world is a terrable place because there are girls in it, I love girls! I think the world is a terrable place because kids get cancer, dogs get hit by cars, people say they love you and they don't mean it, people steal, cheat, lie, and murder.

 

Humanity is a cruddy race, because more of us sin then save. It's easyer I guess. But I don't hate males or females, I just hate people. I don't discriminate by color, race, religion, or sex. Just actions.

[catgirl1927]

Well, I'd love to be able to say that women don't usually profit from divorce, but any time I go to the mall I am surrounded by women who are riding the alimony pony. I hear all the time about women using children to get money from men so they don't have to work. Unfortunately, many of these women aren't divorced because they were in a bad situation, but because they wanted cash. I don't like them either. I think the court system gives advantage to lazy, worthless people, rather than men or women.

 

All the more reason to sign a prenup. Prenuputial agreements don't ONLY protect men. They protect women, too.

[Guitar Wizard]

Well, I'd love to be able to say that women don't usually profit from divorce, but any time I go to the mall I am surrounded by women who are riding the alimony pony. I hear all the time about women using children to get money from men so they don't have to work. Unfortunately, many of these women aren't divorced because they were in a bad situation, but because they wanted cash. I don't like them either. I think the court system gives advantage to lazy, worthless people, rather than men or women.

 

All the more reason to sign a prenup. Prenuputial agreements don't ONLY protect men. They protect women, too.

 

Well, that's the point i've been trying to get across this whole time. Im glad we finally agree

[Art_Critic]

Prenups are not for everyone...

 

Here is a nifty link explaining some pros and cons of prenups.

 

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/36B2EA97-0E31-4037-8ED32E7B09FC051B/catID/BD0FF030-3064-4680-B419B66BA296767C/118/304/247/ART/

 

A prenup can also damage an already good relationship. as well as most prenups don't hold up in court because kids are introduced into the marriage.

Also prenups don't normally work in long term marriages..

 

You cannot sign yourself out of what is rightfully yours by law.

 

I know in Ga the laws of divorce protect individuals really well.. marital assets are the only ones considered

[Guitar Wizard]

Prenups are not for everyone...

 

Here is a nifty link explaining some pros and cons of prenups.

 

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/36B2EA97-0E31-4037-8ED32E7B09FC051B/catID/BD0FF030-3064-4680-B419B66BA296767C/118/304/247/ART/

 

A prenup can also damage an already good relationship. as well as most prenups don't hold up in court because kids are introduced into the marriage.

Also prenups don't normally work in long term marriages..

 

You cannot sign yourself out of what is rightfully yours by law.

 

I know in Ga the laws of divorce protect individuals really well.. marital assets are the only ones considered

 

Well, a lot of people leave a lot of "Holes" in their prenup, and that doesn’t work out too well. You just need to find a lawyer that can look over just about every possible scenario and make an air-tight prenup that will hold up in any court of law.

 

And, yes, you can sign yourself out of what is rightfully yours, people do it all the friggen time. It's called "Not reading the fine print".

 

Prenups are merely an assit for those that want to be protected if the worst case scenario would come to pass. That's all. Prenups are not personal in any way, a person won't ask another to sign a prenup out of spite or anger, they just want to protect themselves. And, what's wrong with that?

[Art_Critic]

Well, a lot of people leave a lot of "Holes" in their prenup, and that doesn’t work out too well. You just need to find a lawyer that can look over just about every possible scenario and make an air-tight prenup that will hold up in any court of law.

 

Have you ever used a prenup ??

[Guitar Wizard]

One of my siblings is a lawyer.

[Art_Critic]

One of my siblings is a lawyer.

 

So the answer is no ?

[Guitar Wizard]

So the answer is no ?

 

I fail to see your point, but no, I haven’t, Im not married or engaged. My sibling, the lawyer is married, and his wife signed his prenup with no complaints, and he wrote it up himself.

 

If I was getting engaged, and I was worried about any of my assets, I would use one, no doubt.

 

Whats with the personal questions? We're just debaiting on if she should be offeneded by the prenup situation, and give her facts about prenups if/when her boyfriend decided to make her sign one. I hate it when people decide to ask personal questions to get their point across because they have nothing else to go on.