Would you sign a prenu?

[ladyinwaiting]

The stats are quite easily explained by factors other than women leaving “at the drop of a hat.” More women do file for divorce, but it’s often after a period of abandonment, or after an affair. Such things are probably a symptom of something else that is wrong in the marriage, which is likely the fault of both parties , or perhaps of neither. Men, though, seem prepared to stay with their partner and look for what is missing in the relationship elsewhere (another woman, more time with their mates, long hours at the office), whilst women tend to get offended by the cheating (or the absence, or whatever) and leave. In families where there are children, the woman has probably had time out the workforce and has less earning potential; or she will be taking on the role of primary carer and therefore gets more of the assets. It may or may not be fair to the individuals concerned, but the system is designed to ensure children are cared for and the welfare budget is kept to a minimum.

 

Which is all a bit of an aside to this matter.

 

Personally, I think the original poster is justified in being offended by the idea of a prenup. I would be too. where it’s a first marriage and the husband has no one to protect but himself. To my mind, it shows a selfish lack of commitment, and I would most certainly be reluctant to continue with what is ostensibly a committed relationship if he doesn’t want to play ball. I would feel differently if he had kids to protect, though. A person’s kids should always be their first priority, and anyone who enters into a relationship with a parent should expect that financial arrangements will be put in place to protect their children.

 

That said, I don’t think that raising the subject by itself means anything. I’m engaged to a fellow who has significantly fewer assets than me, and a markedly lower income (that’s what comes from working in the public sector). He recently offered to enter into a prenup, on the basis that it seemed ‘fair’, and he didn’t want people to think he was doing a Federline. I was, emotionally, somewhere between appreciating the thought and being deeply offended, but in any case I said a firm “no.” I’m entering into this marriage with my eyes open, and if it fails, I don’t expect to walk away as if nothing had happened. That’s not fair to either of us.

 

I should also add, I think it’s very ironic that the same people who are pushing prenups (conservative male politicians) are the same people who are anti-gay marriage on the basis that it “undermines” traditional marriage. Imho, if anything undermines marriage, it’s prenups.

[Woggle]

I have no desire to save traditional marriage and that is why I have no issue with gay marriage. Marriage is already broken in this society so I am looking to make divorce more fair for men. I want men to get out and not lose everything they had. Quite honestly I am just assuming that one day my future wife will walk out on me and if she doesn't it will be a nice surprise. That is why I made her sign a prenup.

[glittergurl]

My husband and I didn't sign any prenup. I would have seriously looked like if he had asked first. We just sort of got married without the intention of ever divorcing ... you know?

 

And yeah yeah, I know a lot of pessimists on this board will say that it's not realistic and pretty naive, but whatever

 

I only understand those who are extremely cautious and have prenups when one is like 100 times richer than the other. Then yeah, in that case, it makes perfect sense.

[Touche]

The MORON is the man who picks a woman of bad character.

 

OP, I'd be insulted too. I understand how you must have felt. Sounds like he's going to drop the whole stupid and insulting idea though. Maybe your friends bringing it up was the first time he ever even thought about it. It did sound that way.

[Guest]

75% of women may file for divorce but 75% of the men drive them out of the marriage. Men are usually chicken and don't want to be do the dumping. Their solution is to make life unbearable for their wife until she has to make the final decision. As for prenups, a lot more women need more protection then men and a prenup is no way for them to get it...unless they are the ones with the money.

[Sal Paradise]

This is another example of something that should be discussed long before a wedding is even considered. It should be discussed early in the relationship (first month).

 

Guys who want a prenup (you'd be crazy not to have one) should tell the girl early on you won't get married without one. This way everyone knows where the relationship could head if marriage ever occurs.

[Guitar Wizard]

The MORON is the man who picks a woman of bad character.

 

OP, I'd be insulted too. I understand how you must have felt. Sounds like he's going to drop the whole stupid and insulting idea though. Maybe your friends bringing it up was the first time he ever even thought about it. It did sound that way.

 

Yeah, that make’s perfect sense. I mean, it’s not like girls can be deceptive or anything, right?

 

Quite frankly, a prenup is not only a protection in case something bad happens, but it is also a keen test of loyalty. If you truly believe that your marriage will last forever, what have you got to lose? Not signing one is just a big lack of faith as asking for a prenup in the first place. Saying "No" could also mean "When we divorce I should be entitled to cut your nuts off and take your house."

[dgiirl]

Saying "No" could also mean "When we divorce I should be entitled to cut your nuts off and take your house."

 

No, it means I should be entitled to 50/50. If i'm the one staying at home, raising kids, I should be entitled to something. I didnt milk my exh, but I did expect 50/50 of everything we made during the marriage. I thought it was only fair. Again, the laws where I live are pretty adequate. Anything that was a gift or inheritance, you dont share. Anything before the marriage, you dont share. But anything made during the marriage, is shared. It's fair.

[Touche]

No, it means I should be entitled to 50/50. If i'm the one staying at home, raising kids, I should be entitled to something. I didnt milk my exh, but I did expect 50/50 of everything we made during the marriage. I thought it was only fair. Again, the laws where I live are pretty adequate. Anything that was a gift or inheritance, you dont share. Anything before the marriage, you dont share. But anything made during the marriage, is shared. It's fair.

 

Exactly!

 

And yes, a girl can be deceptive. But why would a man with brains marry a girl she thought was deceiving him?

[Woggle]

Exactly!

 

And yes, a girl can be deceptive. But why would a man with brains marry a girl she thought was deceiving him?

 

Because women are great liars and a man never knows.

[catgirl1927]

Because women are great liars and a man never knows.

 

Apparently not, because sometimes women say the cat ate the stew and no one would believe that...

[Woggle]

Apparently not, because sometimes women say the cat ate the stew and no one would believe that...

 

My ex was the exception.

[dgiirl]

Because women are great liars and a man never knows.

 

I feel sorry for any man who believes this. It means they cannot even trust themselves to be able to handle the situation even if it DOES happen. Why are you getting married in the first place if you dont trust or know her? Why not just live in sin if you are so worried about your financial situation? It's even BETTER than a pre-nup. You can leave anytime you want with no responsibilities.

[Woggle]

I feel sorry for any man who believes this. It means they cannot even trust themselves to be able to handle the situation even if it DOES happen. Why are you getting married in the first place if you dont trust or know her? Why not just live in sin if you are so worried about your financial situation? It's even BETTER than a pre-nup. You can leave anytime you want with no responsibilities.

 

Some places have common law and there is a thing called palimony.

[Cecelius]

A prenup helps a couple agree between themselves on things that the law would not necessarily handle the same way if it came to it.

 

Personally, I do not feel that marriage should be a legal institution however with default rules for ending it and splitting stuff up.

 

If marriage did not come with a legal status affecting property then a lot of these disputes would not need to be dealt with by prenuptial agreements or divorce courts.

 

If people are equal in the modern era, then they should be willing to give up any special rights if things go south in the relationship.

[Cecelius]

No, it means I should be entitled to 50/50. If i'm the one staying at home, raising kids, I should be entitled to something. I didnt milk my exh, but I did expect 50/50 of everything we made during the marriage. I thought it was only fair. Again, the laws where I live are pretty adequate. Anything that was a gift or inheritance, you dont share. Anything before the marriage, you dont share. But anything made during the marriage, is shared. It's fair.

 

I'm not sure that this really is fair overall, or fair for everyone. Granted, everyone's home experience may be different, but in my opinion, there's a difference between the case where one spouse has an ordinary job where they do their time and get paid and a job with significant stresses, risks, time pressures, etc., that creates a lot more money -- if the other spouse is staying at home, I do feel that absent special circumstances, them staying at home is just that and that if anything, more money coming in while they are at home merely means their life is easier at home, and thus, it's less equitable to then give them half upon a split.

 

More importantly, for most couples that go the divorce route where there are kids, it isn't splitting the property up that is the real issue -- it's the support payments. Further, it's the fact that there is no set rule on what a divorce means in terms of splitting property and support -- and that general unknown is worth a pre-nup just to get it down on paper.

 

If a man (typically) ends up divorced with kids, it would have been more sensible for him never to have been married to her. At least that way, she has no claim to spousal support which is completely off-base in this day and age.

[michelangelo]

He didn't have a prenup.

 

I am sure that this wife of four years is going to make a lot of money way out of scale to what she "earned" by being married to him.

 

My wife and I don't have a prenup, we married when we both were very young and had no assets.

 

However, if we part and I manage to keep any of my assets, and if I were foolish enough to remarry, I hope I have a prenup that protects my assets.

 

One more comment: A prenup is a contract. Like all contracts they are negotiable. If presented with a prenup that you cannot stomach, run it by a lawyer. Maybe a revsion is one you could live with.