I'm totally and utterly heartbroken.

[dgiirl]

I had that planned for tomorrow night.

 

Actually, can I get a woman's view on all of this? Any of you guys ever felt like my wife does right now? Is it permanent do you think? Will I ever get her back?

 

It's really hard to know what exactly is going on with your wife. Definitely some emotional needs are not being met, and since she went online and started talking to other men, something's awaken inside her. She's in the fog right now. As desperatedad and ladyjane suggested, I would check out marriagebuilders.com They have some useful advice to help you turn the situation into your favour, however, nothing's ever guaranteed.

[sophia34]

Actually, can I get a woman's view on all of this? Any of you guys ever felt like my wife does right now? Is it permanent do you think? Will I ever get her back?

 

Although I'm actually ashamed to admit it, I feel EXACTLY as your wife does now, only I have not been able to do what she did. I'm not married, but engaged, to my boyfriend of 8 years, and we have no kids. So things should be simpler for us than for you and your wife, but it certainly doesn't seem so. We're both 36.

 

I, too, could probably be described as the "dingbat" that a previous poster mentioned, who is mourning getting old and can't imagine herself married, with kids, with one life that will never appreciably change except for constantly getting older. The idea of turning 40 literally turns my stomach. The appearance of a gray hair or a wrinkle depresses me for days. Everything that made me happy was associated with the lifestyle of a 20-something college kid--things that are never coming back to me, no matter what I do. It's unhealthy, but it is what it is.

 

Several years ago I felt that something just wasn't "right" with how I felt in the relationship, but he loved (loves) me so much and he's such a great guy, I just couldn't believe that I didn't love him. My friends and family love him and he truly is one of the "good ones." So, I reasoned, how could I NOT stay? But I found myself telling him, "You don't want to wait around for me to make up my mind," or "You really need to find someone else who is better suited for you." My cowardly hope was that he would end it, but he won't do it because, like you love your wife, he loves me.

 

So, I stayed with him. We just bought a house together and he has agreed to put off wedding plans for a year. Every day, though, I feel more and more unable to cope with the situation. And the longer I stay, the more difficult it is to leave. How do I justify telling him that he's wasted all these years with me? How do I live with the guilt of leaving? Why on earth can't I just love him?

 

So, I have your hope, only in reverse. I'm just hoping that it's not permanent and that I can somehow fall in love with him. The alternatives just make me want throw myself in front of a truck. There's no advice, there's no help, and there's nothing anyone can do to help a situation like this. (I've been in counseling for six months to try to figure this out--it's useless.)

 

The cliche "It's not you, it's her" may seem stupid, but it really is true in this case. You've done nothing wrong, just like my fiance has done nothing wrong. He has done nothing but try to help and support me--which just makes me feel worse for not feeling the way I should feel about such a good person.

 

So, that's a little perspective from someone who is going through something very similar to your wife. I am very, very sorry that this is happening to you. I'm sure she is too. She'd probably do anything to make it different. But she probably just reached a point whether it was either be honest with you and end the relationship or---throw herself in front of a truck. It's really hard to explain the emotion, but it's something that she's probably trying to control and change as hard as she can, but she just can't.

[Trimmer]

uksurfer -

 

I almost don't want to reply to you, because my situation is so similar to yours, but I'm a bit further along and it's quite clear that my marriage is over. My wife was the love of my life, my everything, etc... Our kids are great and I relished having and being a family. We even moved out of an urban area to a new state a few years ago, making a specific decision to "simplify our lifestyle" and slow things down a little bit, and I thought we were accomplishing that, but a year ago, she seemed to pull a similar 180 to what you are describing. In her case she had a "friend", with whom she slowly developed an EA (possibly PA, but I don't know for sure) - but she claims that didn't cause our problems. Like you, I got different things from her on different days: sometimes she was explicit that it had nothing to do with me, and it was just that she had changed; on other days she would complain to me about how I didn't do this or that and how she had been feeling that way for a long time. It's clear that she loves our kids unwaveringly, but sometimes she felt that our emphasis on the family had stagnated our relationship as husband and wife. Yet other times, she put that responsibility (for emphasizing the kids and family over our relationship) directly on me. But through it all, she was confident that her feelings for me were gone - I have to give her some credit for staying pretty consistently clear on that point.

 

I don't tell you this as any kind of predictor of what might happen with your wife - this is only one person's experience. But I do want to tell you some of what helped me get through it, and I think a good portion of this applies, whichever way things go with your wife.

 

"The experts" talk about the emotional stages of trauma and loss, and I probably won't get them exactly right here, but I believe the list typically includes denial, anger, bargaining, grief, and acceptance. (Maybe I left some out, but I"m pretty sure the list usually ends with acceptance.) They don't necessarily hit you in a particular order, they can significantly overlap (i.e. more than one at a time), and in my experience, I did a lot of bouncing back and forth - it certainly wasn't "'finish one, then move on, never to return again..." A big jumble, basically, but they were all clearly present in various manifestations and intensities at different times.

 

Anyway, reaching some kind of feeling of acceptance was a big help to me, and it did signal a reduction in some of the others, especially the first 3 (denial, anger, bargaining). I felt like finding acceptance let me grieve peacefully, instead of in anger, and it was a much healthier and "pure" feeling, if no less painful.

 

One more thing I have added to the list from my own experience, which goes a little beyond the other items on the list, is "commitment." For me, commitment was sort of a necessary next step beyond simple acceptance. Not to knock it, as I found it a really important part of my process, but to me, acceptance can still have a sort of a begrudging vibe to it, like there's still a sort of a "yeah, but..." hanging in the air, like you're contemplating what's back over your shoulder.

 

Only somewhat later did I realize that it was finding a commitment to my future that actually moved me (pushed me? pulled me? beckoned me?) forward. Commitment to my own independent identity as a man. Commitment to my kids as a solo father (and, as a corollary, a commitment to being a good separated co-parent with my STBXW...)

 

Interestingly, the first place where this helped me - although I didn't realize it explicitly at the time - was with my kids ( who were 6 and 8 at the time. ) One of my early emotions about our breakup was a fear of being a solo father without my wife. And not to sound too much like Yoda, but it is true: fear begets anger, and I certainly experienced intense anger, too... But it was out of my strong commitment to my children and being their father that I realized that I had to get past the fear (and realize that I could continue to be a confident, good father flying solo...) and that my anger was like a black poison cloud around me. That commitment to something in the future gave me something to hook onto, to look forward and pull myself out...

 

Later, when I thought about this a little more, I found that a similar commitment to myself, as an individual and a man, looking toward the future, was another kind of a step, a handle, whatever metaphor you like. A way to go beyond simply accepting the past (although don't think you can ignore the past, pass it off, or avoid grieving a profound loss), and re-establish a focus on the future.

 

So regardless of what happens with your wife (and no, I agree, you can't control how she feels or what she does about it...) you are still a father to what I assume are precious children, you are still a man and an individual. As a father, an individual, a man, you have a future. Commit yourself with confidence; start working on your vision of that future.

 

Finally, this may all be a little early in the process - I imagine you are still very much in the "what the hell is going on here?" stage, and I'm sorry for that. Believe me, I empathize. You may not be ready to start thinking about the long term future from a perspective of a separate individual, but it sounds like you are starting to think in that direction, so I thought I would contribute my 2 cents.

 

Good luck.

[uksurfer]

Trimmer - great reply. And thanks for taking the time to write it.

 

Yes, a lot of what you say is a little too close for comfort to what I'm going through right now, and my wife is also being fairly consistent in telling me it's over.

 

The problem is that she's still living here with me and the kids, because our finances just won't allow a bona fide separation for the forseeable future, unless we do something pretty drastic.

 

And then we're still having times like last night where we both just sat and had a couple beers, talked and laughed like we'd only know each other for a week, watched a movie at home, and then almost went to bed - in the same bed. Only for her to say at the very last second that we shouldn't be sharing a bed, and so she headed off upstairs to the spare room.

 

Having said that, she came back down to our room really early in the morning and got back into our bed.

 

I'm trying not to talk about our relationship at all, and just carrying on as normal, for the kids' sake and so I don't appear to be pushing her, but it's all I can do to stop myself from pleading and asking why. I'm just so, so twisted up inside, and it all comes out as soon as she leaves the house for work in the morning and I start blubbering like a kid. I work from home as a writer, by the way.

 

I hear you about the stages you go through, too. It's only been 2 weeks now, and yep, I really don't know what the hell is going on, but I'm still hoping that there's a chance. In my eyes, she's throwing a lot away, and I understand that she must have her reasons, whether they're rational or not. But I don't want to confuse my hope with feelings of denial, if you see what I mean.

 

One other thought I have is that because things have gotten quite bad with finances over the last couple of years, doing something drastic about it will change both of our lives quite positively. Whether it brings us closer together or drives her further away remains to be seen, but it will certainly have a positive impact on my life, and help me move on from this. Maybe that will be the change in me that she's looking for? Maybe not.

 

But either way, I just can't switch off 6 1/2 years of unconditional love, commitment, and affection in only 2 weeks.

 

I just can't.

[uksurfer]

Sophia - thanks for replying, too. Yep, that certainly seems to be how my wife feels right now. I love her friends and family. They all love me, too, and have often told me how I've been the best thing that's ever happened to her. As far as I was concerned, she was the best thing that's ever happened to me, too.

 

I guess there's not really too much I can do about it all now, except wait (and sweat) it out.

 

Thanks again.

[DesperateDad]

uksurfer and Trimmer: our situations are incredibly similar. I've only been in this for a few weeks and we still share a bed, but my wife is still adamant about not feeling anything for me.

 

She does have a male 'friend' who lives right across the street and is home during the day most of the time. She admitted to 'loving' him, but now says she doesn't feel anything for anybody.

 

She's been slowly disengaging with him and other things that have caused stress in our marriage, all the while maintaining that she is no longer in love with me and doesn't think it will ever return. I don't get it. Her actions indicate she's making an effort in some way, but her words haven't changed.

 

I'm really sad that you guys are going through the same thing, but it is sometimes comforting to hear other stories like mine and know I'm not alone. I keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers. Good luck!

[uksurfer]

Heya DesperateDad. I've had a good read of your thread, and yeah, all really similar. We're sharing a bed on and off - some nights we do, some we don't. Obviously, nothing happens those nights we do. Some mornings she walks out to work without as much as a 'see ya later' to me, other mornings (like this morning) she stopped right next to me and stuck her cheek out so I could kiss her.

 

I know she's been IM'ing with a couple of guys. One of them she says she hasn't talked to since I discovered her 2 weeks ago. The other she's sent text messages to, however, he lives a hell of a long way from here, and she's never likely to meet him. The thing is I've read some of the conversations she's had with him and she's told him some pure fantasy stuff. For example, she told him that she surfs a lot, when she actually bloody hates the water. That kinda says to me that it's not especially serious, and she's also told me that none of it is serious anyway, and that she did it because she was bored. And yes, I do believe her.

 

She's also said that she's not even looking for any kind of relationship right now with anyone. I know there's nothing physical going on with anyone, as she's not spending any more time out of the house than normal.

 

I can also understand the boredom thing, too. For the last couple of years, our finances have been in an awful state, and we haven't had babysitters, the kids haven't been great sleepers, etc, etc, so our own social life has lacked a lot. However, my business is picking up, she started a new job a little while ago, and I was really excited because things were genuinely looking up for us. Then the bomb dropped, so to speak.

 

Right now, I'm just moving between moods where I kinda think, "yeah, just take it easy, appear that you've accepted it, sort your own life out, and in time she'll figure out that's she's making a mistake", to moods where I'm only just managing to survive in a state of blind panic.

[Woggle]

She is getting lost ina fantasy world and taht why she is telling all these lies over the internet. She also sounds like somebody who can't handle when things are less than 100% perfect which isn't real life. She just runs away when things get tough.

[uksurfer]

She just runs away when things get tough.

 

Yeah, she's always had a tendency to pretend things just aren't happening when they do get tough. She does run away from it all instead of facing up. Another problem we have is that it's likely that I'm going to go bankrupt shortly, which will mean she'll then be chased for any joint debt we have, and she's just not geared up for - or even interested in - managing financial stuff like this.

 

Money problems are something else she always tends to run away from, and to be honest, she's been the cause of much of our financial trouble in the first place.

 

I'm just really worried about how she's going to deal with all this when/if she's on her own.

[Woggle]

Yeah, she's always had a tendency to pretend things just aren't happening when they do get tough. She does run away from it all instead of facing up. Another problem we have is that it's likely that I'm going to go bankrupt shortly, which will mean she'll then be chased for any joint debt we have, and she's just not geared up for - or even interested in - managing financial stuff like this.

 

Money problems are something else she always tends to run away from, and to be honest, she's been the cause of much of our financial trouble in the first place.

 

I'm just really worried about how she's going to deal with all this when/if she's on her own.

 

I know you are worried about her but just remember she chose this not you. She has to deal with what comes from her decision.

[uksurfer]

I know you are worried about her but just remember she chose this not you. She has to deal with what comes from her decision.

 

Yeah, I know. But it comes back to that whole 'letting go' thing. It's something I know I'm not going to be able to do easily - especially when me letting go means that she's going to get dumped on.

 

Bleh. Women.

[Woggle]

Yeah, I know. But it comes back to that whole 'letting go' thing. It's something I know I'm not going to be able to do easily - especially when me letting go means that she's going to get dumped on.

 

Bleh. Women.

 

You have to learn to be a little more heartles when it comes to her. Don't feel sorry for her laying in the bed she made.

[uksurfer]

You have to learn to be a little more heartles when it comes to her. Don't feel sorry for her laying in the bed she made.

 

Yep, I know that as well. But she's smart, sexy, sassy, tall, fit, funny, has the most amazing hair, and is the mother of the two most beautiful children in the world - ours. Oh, and she has this crooked little smile that makes me grin like a village idiot.

 

I can't help it.

 

;o)

[Woggle]

Yep, I know that as well. But she's smart, sexy, sassy, tall, fit, funny, has the most amazing hair, and is the mother of the two most beautiful children in the world - ours. Oh, and she has this crooked little smile that makes me grin like a village idiot.

 

I can't help it.

 

;o)

 

And she is about to walk out on her family and children like it is nothing. Don't let blind love fool you.

[uksurfer]

And she is about to walk out on her family and children like it is nothing. Don't let blind love fool you.

 

I know, I know. You're making perfect sense. And that's easy for a third party to do. I just know that this isn't really her doing this. By that I mean I'm positive that this is some kind of mid life crisis that's possibly out of her control. And that's why I'm so worried.

 

I've just had an email conversation with her mum, too, who feels exactly the same as me and is convinced that this is some kind of MLC, too.

 

I know it doesn't help too much, but it's good to know that she's supporting me, too.

[Ladyjane14]

I know she's been IM'ing with a couple of guys. One of them she says she hasn't talked to since I discovered her 2 weeks ago. The other she's sent text messages to, however, he lives a hell of a long way from here, and she's never likely to meet him. The thing is I've read some of the conversations she's had with him and she's told him some pure fantasy stuff.

 

A separation from her husband and family affords her the opportunity to go and try some of those fantasies on for size. If she finds one that fits...great. And if not, Hubby's waiting on the backburner.

 

I know you want to believe that the need for "space" is all about thinking things through. But I'll be honest and say I think that's a bit naive. Afterall, do YOU need "space" away from your family in order to think? Speaking for myself, I need a few hours of quiet time now and then....but I don't have to move out of the family home, or shut my husband down to get them.

 

The "need for space" is most often about the need to remove one's misbehavior from the observation of prying eyes, and the need to legitimize withdrawal from the primary relationship. She doesn't want you looking over her shoulder or judging her on her actions.

 

If you are content either way with the outcome of the separation, then that's one thing. But if you are counting on 'absence making the heart grow fonder', you will more than likely end up disappointed.

 

Don't let your fear of loss speak for you. If separation is not what YOU want too....don't be afraid to speak your mind. You can't stop your wife from leaving, but you can at least be 'on the record' with your preferences.

[DesperateDad]

Man, this whole WAW (Walk Away Wife) thing is an epidemic, isn't it? It's amazing to me that so many situations are so much alike.

 

Things have been getting better for us socially as well as financially lately, too. I found it strange that this would happen now, too. She's mentioned a several times about how I haven't wanted to listen to her or get to know the 'real' or 'new' her. She goes on to say 'then I meet someone who really knows me without having to get to know me, that I don't have to explain things to...' And so on (insert sound of me puking).

 

She's talking about the neighbor guy and it makes me furious to hear it. How can this f'er possibly know my wife that well after just a few months of chatting when I've known her for 12 years? I can only think it's escapist fantasy. If all he says is exactly what she wants to hear, how she is SO right, SO smart, SO great, how can she not feel good talking to him. But that can't possibly last.

 

Yeah, I know my situation isn't so much that of an affair as it is about WAW syndrome. But, it makes me furious to be compared to this guy. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I beat him hands down on just about every count. Sure, he's taller than me and makes a bit more money, but I'm better looking, more educated, smarter, funnier, more social, more involved with my kids, more prestigious job, more future prospects, etc.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread, uksurfer! I need to stop dwelling on this guy and just be cool. It gets me too angry and then depressed. Sometimes I think I could almost be okay with splitting if he weren't around, but then I think of the kids being without me most of the time and none of us having two dimes to rub together. That's reality.

[uksurfer]

Hijack away! We're in the same boat. ;o))

 

The thing with our separation is that it's not really financially possible for her to do it anyway. She just can't afford it on her salary, and combined, we're only just managing to stay in the place we're in now. Paying for another place right now is simply out of the question.

 

So while she wants to move out, the likelihood of her being able to do so in the near future is pretty much nil. She also knows that I don't want her to leave, too.

 

As for the fantasy escaping thing, she's texting someone that she's met online. Someone from another country, in fact, that she has no hope of meeting, who's almost 10 years younger than her, and who is probably telling her exactly the kind of things that will help her quickly forget about all the crap that's happening here at home.

 

But because she's built this picture of herself up for him (for example, telling him she surfs all the time when she's actually never tried surfing in her life, and god knows what else she's said) any kind of real relationship that comes from that just isn't gonna work, is it?

 

I just want to give her a shake and tell her to bloody well wake up.

[DesperateDad]

Yep. There's no way we could both survive on what we make now, either. She's thinking it may even take her a couple of years to get to a point financially where she can do it. That gives me more time to show her that I'm changed, too.

 

So, it could definitely work in your favor if you can do the same. The fantasies can really only last so long if they're not realized. I'm hoping we'll be able to post some great success stories here in a few months or a year.

[Woggle]

Yep. There's no way we could both survive on what we make now, either. She's thinking it may even take her a couple of years to get to a point financially where she can do it. That gives me more time to show her that I'm changed, too.

 

So, it could definitely work in your favor if you can do the same. The fantasies can really only last so long if they're not realized. I'm hoping we'll be able to post some great success stories here in a few months or a year.

 

Don't sit around waiting like a pathetic lapdog. Give her a timeframe and if things have not changed since then file for divorce. Stop letting her set the terms. Also she is the one that is flirting with this neighbor so stop blaming yourself.

[uksurfer]

I'm hoping we'll be able to post some great success stories here in a few months or a year.

 

I'm really not so sure that's gonna happen here. I stayed at my parents with the kids last night while she stayed with a friend. I saw her again when I got home this morning and I just completely broke down. Had to go sit in the bathroom for half an hour.

 

She's just saying some really nasty stuff to me. It's like it's just not her doing all of this, and it's like I just really don't know her anymore. For example, the other night she vehemently said that I "repulse" her, only to tell me a few minutes later that she didn't mean that and she shouldn't have said it.

 

She's just changed so much over the last 2 weeks, and it's so heartbreaking to me have to watch this happen.

 

It's all just so weird and out of kilter and so sudden that I can't help but think it's a mid life crisis, or some kind of hormonal/menopause thing.

 

It's also our little boy's 5th birthday party tomorrow, with lots of friends and family coming. We'd planned it weeks ago when everything was fine, and now she just wants us to go and act 'normal' in front of everyone. I'm just not sure I can do that.

 

She's really upset the rest of her family by doing this, too. They can't believe she'd just move out and leave the kids, without even trying to work this out. They think she's being really selfish. I'm starting to not blame myself for any of this, either, because it seems like she just wants out of this entire family situation for some reason, and she's channelling it all towards me.

 

After seeing me crack up this morning, she's also now adamant that she's going to move out next week (how she'll do it, I don't know) so there's nothing more I can do but let her go, cry a little more, be there for the kids, spend a little time hoping she'll come back, and then move on.

 

f***, this is so sad. I've lost my best friend and my wife in less than 2 weeks.

[DesperateDad]

Don't lose hope! I know exactly how you feel. My wife wants me to not tell anyone and to act normally until SHE is ready to make a move. I want to shout it out to the world how unfair she's being. I'm trying to keep it all together, though.

 

This is tough. All I can say is to give it your best effort to change yourself for the better despite everything else that's going on. You have got to survive this for your children and yourself and YOU WILL.

 

I know about the ups and downs. I'm going through it myself. There are times when I want to just break down and cry and I'm totally NOT a cryer. There are other times when I want to rage and tear s*** up.

 

Last night my wife was calmly reciting some of her 'feelings' and 'reasons' again and it was all I could do to just shut my mouth. All the while I was saying 'yeah' and 'I understand' I was thinking: who the f*** do you think you are? How dare you treat me like this?

 

Sometimes I just can't believe it's happening. She went from thinking we would eventually work things out just a few weeks ago to giving up entirely after a big argument. She says she can't live with some things I said, like "you are hurting me more than anyone else has ever hurt me."

 

I'm doing all I can think of to repair our relationship, but at the same time I'm trying to figure out the things I need to do for ME so that I can move on with my life regardless.

 

I honestly don't know how long I can put up with this stuff, either. It's a day by day thing. Like others have said, I just need to know in the end that I tried my very best and didn't give up. We can't control our wives. In the end we may have to let go. Maybe not. Time will tell.

 

My heart breaks every time I read these stories and I really feel for you. Just don't fall apart, man. Hang in there. There's a lot more life to live no matter what happens.

[Woggle]

Stop putting on the charade and acting normal. You don't have to perform for her. Of course act civil around the kids but except for that you don't have to hide it. Confide in your friends and find support.

[uksurfer]

I honestly don't know how long I can put up with this stuff, either.

 

Yep, me too. I have absolutely no idea whether she knows how much she's hurting me. That's why I don't think she's thinking straight. The last time I tried to tell her, she was all "what, you want me to get the violins out or something?". Just really cruel, which is just something she's never even been. Of course, she took it all back later.

 

I'm just going to try not to say another word about this whole thing to her all next week, and to try to put the whole thing out of my mind the best I can. I'm pretty sure she knows that I don't want this to happen by now, so it's all down to her from now on. I'm just going to get on with my life, sort some of my own s*** out, and let her do what she needs to do.

 

It's right when people say that you need to stop all this pleading and begging and crying. I haven't actually begged or pleaded, but I don't think the crying I've been doing is helping at all, and it's not really putting me in a good light. Fine, I've made sure she knows how I feel about her decision, now I think it's best for the whole situation (and for my own respect and dignity) to appear to her that I've accepted it.

 

Anyway, her mum's coming to stay with us for 10 days starting from next weekend (this was planned and booked a long time ago).

 

That should be fun.

[uksurfer]

I apologise for stringing this thread along, but I've just discovered who my wife's online/text message fling is with. I now know how they met online, I know what he does for a job, I know what he does in his spare time, and I know where he lives. And, I now know how they're chatting without using MSN, etc. It's amazing what a network packet sniffer can do, eh.

 

;o))

 

Remember, she's almost 38 (I'm almost 33), married with 2 kids, and this guy is a 24 year old student who lives abroad, who's into the same things as I am - watersports, he works in advertising, etc, etc. In fact, reading his online 'profile' virtually describes me when I was 24. Bleh. Now, excuse me, but this is all sounding so damned ridiculous to me now.

 

Let's recap...

 

1) She thinks she's starting to look older as she approaches' her 38th birthday in a couple weeks.

2) She suddenly decides to end her marriage and leave me and the two most beautiful kids on the planet, to the absolute surprise of me, all our friends, and all her family.

3) She starts an online/text message fling with a 24 year old.

 

Now, who wants to comment first? ;o)

 

Actually, this has made the whole situation seem a little brighter and more 'salvageable' to me. Not sure why though... maybe it's the beers I've just had. I know it doesn't change anything, though, but like I said, it just seems absolutely ridiculous.

 

Still breaks my heart, though.