I'm totally and utterly heartbroken.

[uksurfer]

Maybe you are better off without her. Look at the way she is treating you and yourself if you want to be married to a woman like that. You said you are going on a vacation so just forget about her and enjoy yourself.

 

Yeah, I see your point, but she wasn't always like this. This is all a recent thing to me, like just in the last 3-4 weeks.

 

I think I've already let go. True, I'm hoping that there's a slim chance that she'll hit the floor with a bump once she's living in a crappy flat by herself, but I'm not counting on it.

 

So, yeah, maybe I am better off. I dunno. The hard part to accept is that this is a side to her that I've not seen in 6 1/2 years. I know it can be good, because it has been good.

 

I just don't understand why it's not good now.

[uksurfer]

Woooo. Roller-f***ing-coaster.

 

So last night after another really nice night together, I turned in at about 11pm - in 'our' bed. She fell asleep on the sofa watching TV, and headed upstairs at 3am-ish and got in bed with me. Hmmm. Then as I woke up this morning, it was the most natural thing in the world for me to move closer to her and give her a cuddle, like I always used to. She whispered "what are you doing?", I said "nothing", and we just lay there half asleep for, like, 20 minutes until the kids woke up, as if the clock had been turned back 3 weeks.

 

Then for all of today, she's been really friendly and almost umm... playful. Now I'm really confused. Is she confused, too, I wonder? Either way, it's giving me the worst anxiety attacks I've ever had. Right now, I'm operating on autopilot in a state of sheer panic over the thought of losing her, losing the life we had, and losing the future we'd planned together.

 

Stop the f***ing ride, dude. I want to get off.

[uksurfer]

No, seriously, stop it. I'm getting off. Right. Now.

 

I just calmly told her that I was going to go away for the night tonight, so we could have a break from each other. She went abso-f***ing-lutely ballistic for a bunch of really petty reasons.

 

I just can't win. It's exactly like that advice I posted about midlife crisis. The only real way someone in midlife crisis can justify the decision they've made is to create even more tension and dischord in the house, so their reason for going seems much more valid.

 

I'm desperately trying to walk away from these rows without getting involved, and I've gotten away with it so far, which actually makes her look a little silly.

 

However, it's making me swear more on this forum, for which I can't f***ing apologise enough.

[uksurfer]

And up again. No, down. No, up. Up a bit more. Down a bit. Up. Down.

 

Gah.

 

OK, I spoke to her sis this morning, and she thinks it's a midlife crisis, too. Everyone thinks it, and everyone can see what she's doing is completely and utterly daft, except for my wife.

 

There's just nothing more I can do.

[DesperateDad]

I know what you mean. I've been having the same crazy ups and downs and it's maddening. I've been pretty good lately, though I got pissed off about some stuff again on Friday night and started a minor fight. Not really too bad, although I did cross the line and say something pretty nasty.

 

After that, I asked her that we not talk about our relationship for a while. We're communicating better now and things are pretty friendly around the house. I'm fighting bouts of rage, though, at the thought of what the OM has done. Suppressing it pretty well, but for the occasional angry mutterings.

 

All I can advise is what seems to be working somewhat for me and others around here: focus on yourself. Take up a new hobby, be social, do things you really like that are for YOU.

 

It sounds like you're on the right track, but I would avoid talking about the relationship at all. In my case, I just told my wife that I agreed that things might not work out for us and that I wasn't going to try to change her mind. I did tell her that I would be treating her better than I had, both because she deserves it and it's the right thing to do. So far the response has been pretty positive.

 

Going away sounds like a good idea for you, but I wouldn't mention to your wife that you need a break from her. Let her just see that you're focusing on your own life and having fun and changing for the better.

 

Even if things don't work out, you're still changed for the better. You have to decide that YOU are going to win regardless of what choice she makes. This is what I'm constantly telling myself now. It does seem to help.

[uksurfer]

Yeah, maybe telling her that it was a 'break from each other' might have been a bit of a blunder on my part - especially since we'd had a reasonably good day. A tiny, tiny part of me (no, not that part) almost, for a second, thought that she didn't want me to go away for the night. Hmmm.

 

But I don't really know what she wants me to do, to be honest. Act normal? Get her some flowers? Ask her if she wants to go out for a drink? Or to the cinema? Right now, all that stuff just seems like it would annoy the crap out of her - or rather, I actually just can't predict which way it would go.

 

I'm now just getting more and more concerned about this 24 year old kid she's texting all the time. I really do think she's going to fly out to meet him before long, and it's making me feel ill.

 

But surely, once she gets there, she'll think "s***, what am I doing? I'm 38, married with 2 kids, and I'm sneaking around with a 24 year old at his parents' place!! This is very, very wrong."

 

Or at least I'm hoping that happens. Mind you, once she gets in his room and it's all racing car wallpaper and a Power Rangers bedspread, she might realise the enormity of her mistake.

 

Or will she? Damn, I'm panicking again.

 

Good to talk about this with someone else who's bailing out the same boat, though. Thanks for putting up with this thread, DD.

[DesperateDad]

No problem at all, uksurfer. The feeling is mutual.

 

What I'm doing seems to be getting a positive response. Here again are the main elements to my strategy so far:

 

Accept everything she says ("I understand").

Don't fight about anything at all.

Never let her see me angry or frustrated.

Try to act happy all the time.

Compliment her (but, don't overdo it)

 

Most of this is based on marriagebuilders Plan A. I'm trying to make myself generally more pleasant for her to be around. I think the idea is that I won't seem like such a bad choice after a while.

 

I've also been trying to find the list of divorce buster 180's someone posted on one of these threads. I think the theory is that what you did before is the reason why things are where they are now and that doing the opposite will encourage a different, more positive response. If anybody can chime in and let me know if I got that right (and repost them/link to them?), that would be great.

 

You may have to convince her that you're really hearing what she's saying before any of this can work. If she believes that you're not going to try to push her into anything, she might be more receptive to nice gestures, compliments, time together, etc.

 

I know everyone's situation is different, but if what you're doing now isn't working, something else might... In my case, the difference in responses started immediately. We're definitely still in a relationship crisis, but our interactions are much more positive and constructive. It's a relief to not be fighting all the time, too.

[uksurfer]

Oh man, check this out.

 

An hour or two ago, she asked me to pass her a couple of things, which I did, but I neglected to 'look' at her as I did so. Why didn't I look at her? Not sure, but her mum arrived tonight to stay with us for 8 days, and the atmosphere in the house is a little tense, to say the least, and understandably, I was feeling a little vulnerable. Anyway, here's a few snippets of the conversation that followed... (I was using my laptop at the time, and managed to note them down as she was saying them, and as I was trying not to hear them.)

 

“If you don’t give me the money for a deposit for a flat, I will stay and make your life hell.”

 

“I will drag you down so far.”

 

“I will prove that you can’t keep a job, and that you are on prescription drugs for depression.”

 

“Why don’t you go to your mum’s tomorrow and whilst you’re out, I will change the locks.”

 

“I’m going to tell the homeless department tomorrow that you are mentally abusing me and the children.”

 

“If you take the car, I will report is as being stolen.”

 

“I will tell them that you have been monitoring my emails and everything.”

 

“I absolutely can’t stand you. You turn my stomach.”

 

 

Now bear in mind that I haven't actually done anything wrong at all here, and that she's the one who's been caught out arranging to meet a 24 year old for sex.

 

 

So, what does everyone think? Should I keep trying to save this? Any betting people in the house? How're my chances looking? Who wants to give me a price on this?

[Woggle]

Talk to a lawyer now without telling her and keep a log of all these threats so the judge has a record of it. This woman is nuttier than a fruitcake and you need to protect yourself. If I were you I would get out of there even if she wanted to reconcile. It sounds like she has gone off the deep end.

[DesperateDad]

All I can say is wow. I really feel for you, man. I don't know what to advise you on this except to try to stay cool. There have been a few times lately when I didn't even recognize my wife because she was saying such hateful things, but she always apologized later. Hopefully, someone wiser than I can give you some help here...

[Woggle]

Does there ever come a point for you guys where you say enough and decide you don't want these women whether they you want you or not. Why would you even want to be with somebody that treats you like this and makes you feel this bad? I being alone really so bad that you would put yourself through this?

[uksurfer]

Does there ever come a point for you guys where you say enough and decide you don't want these women whether they you want you or not. Why would you even want to be with somebody that treats you like this and makes you feel this bad? I being alone really so bad that you would put yourself through this?

 

Yep, that part about turning her stomach just about sealed it for me.

 

I tell you, you've never experienced a real relationship until you've turned someone's stomach.

 

[uksurfer]

Does there ever come a point for you guys where you say enough and decide you don't want these women whether they you want you or not. Why would you even want to be with somebody that treats you like this and makes you feel this bad? I being alone really so bad that you would put yourself through this?

 

Remember, this is all still so strange to me. We've had 6 1/2 years of it being really, really good. Or at least I thought it was really, really good.

 

All this has just kicked off in the last 4 weeks. That's why it's so hard to let go just like that. I really need a little more time to understand why this has happened, so I can let go properly.

 

Right now, I just feel like she needs help of some sort, whether it's stress, depression, midlife crisis, perimenopause, hormones, whatever. And if I could, I'd still like to be the one to help her. That feeling is fast disappearing, though.

 

At the end of the day, this just isn't the woman that I've spent the last 6 1/2 years with.

[Gunny376]

Me? I 16 years on the otherside of this ~ and this was before the internet ~ I went everywhere looking for answers and for solutions. Did, everything that I could to hold my marriage together ~ all for naught.

 

You're setting yourself up to become a "lover's mathyr" and you're going to end up giving and giving and giving ~ and the more that you take the more she's going to take.

 

I'vee read EXTENSIVELY about the subject of marriage, men and women, sex, realtionships, marriage, what women want, etc. First off ~ women themselves don't know what they want from day to day ~ speaking generally ~ it changes everyday.

 

Women are more in tuned with their feelings and emotions ~ which are not always rational and lodgical ~ and so they tend to make decisions that are ilrational and ilogical ~ that make no sense whatsoever ~ that drive the men in their lives crazy ~ because men tend to make decsision bases upon rationality and pure exact logic. And, I'm NOT saying that women are NOT nor CANNOT be rational and logical ~ just that they have the propensity to make decisions based upon feeling and emotion and then justify them logically and rationally.

 

With that said ~ you had best get your love lorned head out of azz ~ and start thinking about you, yourself, your children, and the rest of your lives ~ because she sure as Hell isn't.

 

Get a notebook and start writing what was said,what was done ~ dates and times. Move any and all accounts into your name ~ and keep an eye on them. Scrutinize all account statements for any and everything. Start eliminating debt ~ and getting out of debt. Believe what you gut and your eyes are telling you ~ and not what your ears are hearing coming out of her mouth.

 

Then give her ~ her so called time and space (that's what she's telling you) and move on with your life. Get and keep sole custody of the kids any way possible.

 

I wish I had had someone telling me all of this. Forget trying to hold it together ~she not interested in you, the marriage, putting it back together. What she is doing is CHEATING! She's already left you in her mind, the marriage is OVER! She's just biding her time figuring out the details of her escape.

 

Personally if I were you ~ knowing what I know now, I'd get a lawyer, get the divorce papers drawed up, have the court date set up, get any and all monies and accouts in my name, serve her with the papers the day before the court date ~ find someway to have the law escout her from the house ~and have a locksmith standing by to change the locks on any and everything.

 

As bad as it is ~ it can and probally is going to get a lot worse for you ~ unless you take action NOW! Better for it to be here that gets raped in divorce court than you ~ and you will get and be raped.

 

Forget her ~ go find someone that loves and is in love with you ~ just make damn sure that you trade up from what you have. What one woman wil abuse ~ another woman can certainly use. There are no shortage of good women ~ looking for good, devoted, loyal men. You're out busting your hump everyday, trying to keep a roof over her and the children's head, food in their mouths, clothes on their back, a carseat under her butt, and this is the graditude you get? You work 8 ~ 12 hour days, catching grief from the boss, co-workers, and God only knows who else and this is what you have to come home to everyday? I think not.

 

The problem her is that yourm just a "regular guy" the loyal, stable, devoted type ~ which is the exact oppossite of the kind of guy that women are attracted to. They're attracted to the "bad guys" "seducer"

"successful" and artist types ~ all of which make lousy traditional husbands. Women want what they can't get. Many single women usually have one of two types on the line ~ the one they're sleeping with ~ and the one that buys things for them. Since I've come to understand this, and comprehend this ~ I've got women knocking on my door. I don't buy women things, I don't treat them like all the other men do. I don't treat them dirty or ugly ~ I do romance them ~ make them laugh ~ show them a good time ~ but I don't put up with their nonsense, foolishness, nor do I kiss their azz.`

 

Best of luck

[Gunny376]

Oh man, check this out.

 

An hour or two ago, she asked me to pass her a couple of things, which I did, but I neglected to 'look' at her as I did so. Why didn't I look at her? Not sure, but her mum arrived tonight to stay with us for 8 days, and the atmosphere in the house is a little tense, to say the least, and understandably, I was feeling a little vulnerable. Anyway, here's a few snippets of the conversation that followed... (I was using my laptop at the time, and managed to note them down as she was saying them, and as I was trying not to hear them.)

 

“If you don’t give me the money for a deposit for a flat, I will stay and make your life hell.”

 

“I will drag you down so far.”

 

“I will prove that you can’t keep a job, and that you are on prescription drugs for depression.”

 

“Why don’t you go to your mum’s tomorrow and whilst you’re out, I will change the locks.”

 

“I’m going to tell the homeless department tomorrow that you are mentally abusing me and the children.”

 

“If you take the car, I will report is as being stolen.”

 

“I will tell them that you have been monitoring my emails and everything.”

 

“I absolutely can’t stand you. You turn my stomach.”

 

 

Now bear in mind that I haven't actually done anything wrong at all here, and that she's the one who's been caught out arranging to meet a 24 year old for sex.

 

 

So, what does everyone think? Should I keep trying to save this? Any betting people in the house? How're my chances looking? Who wants to give me a price on this?

 

Dude~! Bail! The only thing different between your marriage and the Titantic is the Titantic had a band playing as it went down!

[Gunny376]

100% of the time ~ that when a woman tells her husband that she's not happy ~ all of the time ~ she's sleeping with someone else. They do this ~ to justify the guilt and shame they feel ~ and to justify logically and rationally in their minds why they're cheating on their husbands.

 

Trust me ~ call "cheaters" set up some cameras, wiretaps, whatever ~ but she cheating on you ~ she's scrogging some other guy! She's not having a midlife crisis. And, more than likely its some guy that you know and might even trust!

 

http://cnesecure.com/index.php/cPath/24?osCsid=aabac1a37938a45821f7611fad14607c

 

http://www.trek-marketing.com/pcpandora/info/blue/2.php?a=cheatercom

 

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/search-ng.gsp?search_constraint=0&search_query=Mobicam&ic=20_0&Continue.x=17&Continue.y=13

 

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3400650

[Woggle]

One thing I have to correct Gunny on. Little girls want the badboy who treats them like crap but women will appreciate a good man. The bad part is that there is an abundance of little girls and a shortage of women.

[uksurfer]

One thing I have to correct Gunny on. Little girls want the badboy who treats them like crap but women will appreciate a good man. The bad part is that there is an abundance of little girls and a shortage of women.

 

Very true. Well said.

 

Oh, and early this morning, she apologised for last night's little tirade, too, and said that she really didn't mean those things. DesperateDad - sound familiar?

 

I'm actually beginning to think that she's had some kind of breakdown, to be honest. If I'd put up with 6 1/2 years of this kind of behaviour, I'd be more inclined to end it myself as quickly as I could. However, when you get 6 1/2 really, really great years, then 4 weeks of the weirdest s*** you can imagine, then something starts to smell a little fishy. Plus, I remember that one of the other things she said last night was something like "there goes any chance of us getting back together", which to me says that in her mind, there was some possibility of that happening. Eh?

 

None of it really adds up. Like, I still think (as does everyone else) that if she was determined to go, she'd just *go*. It's not like I have her tied up in the basement or anything - and that's not even because we don't have a basement.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm kinda hanging on. But right now, it just seems like she's made this decision in the heat of an argument, and is too stubborn or proud to reverse it. So she's trying to create new, more valid reasons to go by arguing with me. I know what kind of stress she's been under with money, and the kids, and her dad dying, etc. There's been a lot of pressure on us the last 2 years, and you know what, I'm a forgiving guy. Yep, that's my one fault - I'm waaay too forgiving.

 

So anyhoo, as well as hanging on slightly, I'm also still gonna let her go if that's what she really wants. She can get her own place, and I'll get mine. But, my door will stay open for her as long as I can hold it open but, y'know, I can't guarantee anything.

 

In fact, I'm actually starting to look forward to having my own place again. Bring on the girls.

[DesperateDad]

Oh, and early this morning, she apologised for last night's little tirade, too, and said that she really didn't mean those things. DesperateDad - sound familiar?

 

Yep. Up and down.

 

I'm actually beginning to think that she's had some kind of breakdown, to be honest. If I'd put up with 6 1/2 years of this kind of behaviour, I'd be more inclined to end it myself as quickly as I could. However, when you get 6 1/2 really, really great years, then 4 weeks of the weirdest s*** you can imagine, then something starts to smell a little fishy.

 

I know exactly what you mean. We've had nine years of a good marriage even though we've had plenty of tough times. We've stuck together through several life-threatening illnesses, a child's brain surgery, financial troubles, a moneypit house and numerous problems with our families.

 

Plus, I remember that one of the other things she said last night was something like "there goes any chance of us getting back together", which to me says that in her mind, there was some possibility of that happening. Eh?

 

I got really pissed when my wife said almost the exact same thing on Friday night. I couldn't believe she would keep saying those things to me after already telling me we were through.

 

None of it really adds up. Like, I still think (as does everyone else) that if she was determined to go, she'd just *go*. It's not like I have her tied up in the basement or anything - and that's not even because we don't have a basement.

 

Our cases and others sound so much alike it's amazing. This really is a strange phenomenon that I'd never heard of till it happened to me.

 

It disturbs me, though, that Woggle and Gunny are so gungho about pulling the plug after just a few weeks of strange behavior. Would you guys leave a woman whom you loved if she suddenly developed a serious medical problem? Hurt in a car wreck?

 

Come on. I don't think it's such a good idea for a guy with a family to give up on his marriage just like that. You've obviously been through some tough times yourselves, but that doesn't mean that it's right for me or uksurfer to jump ship when things get tough in our relationships.

 

If our problems stretch on for a while longer with no relief, then it may be time to take some other action, but if a man values his marriage and family, he'll give it every effort to repair things.

[uksurfer]

It disturbs me, though, that Woggle and Gunny are so gungho about pulling the plug after just a few weeks of strange behavior. Would you guys leave a woman whom you loved if she suddenly developed a serious medical problem? Hurt in a car wreck?

 

Come on. I don't think it's such a good idea for a guy with a family to give up on his marriage just like that. You've obviously been through some tough times yourselves, but that doesn't mean that it's right for me or uksurfer to jump ship when things get tough in our relationships.

 

If our problems stretch on for a while longer with no relief, then it may be time to take some other action, but if a man values his marriage and family, he'll give it every effort to repair things.

 

Yeah, I can see their point, but the advice they're giving does sound a little cold and harsh to me. I'd only take that course of action if this kind of thing went on for much longer than just the 4 short weeks it has done. I can't (and really don't want to) switch off what I feel for her so quickly, because, yes, I do value my marriage, my wife, my kids, and my family unit a hell of a lot. Maybe much more than I realised, actually.

 

What she's doing is just so out of kilter with the way we normally were during the last 6 1/2 years, that I can't help but think she's having a crisis or some other kind of problem. We didn't slowly grow apart, or spend all of our time arguing, or anything like that. As I said, 5 days before this happened, she was telling me what she wanted me to do for her 40th birthday - which is in 2 years time. And up until the day she told me it was finished, she used to tell me she loved me every day. Etc, etc, etc.

 

Y'know, it's nice to sit here and imagine dating a bunch of girls right now, whether it's to make me feel better, or whether it's for revenge, but the more I think about it, the more I'm not so sure that I could actually go through with it.

[dgiirl]

It disturbs me, though, that Woggle and Gunny are so gungho about pulling the plug after just a few weeks of strange behavior. Would you guys leave a woman whom you loved if she suddenly developed a serious medical problem? Hurt in a car wreck?

 

I agree with you DD. Woggle's definitely been through some rough times. Unfortunately, he's let that make him bitter towards all women with these generalizations he throws out. This is why i have him on ignore now. Some people just think you should get over it, and yes, maybe they mean well because they dont want you to suffer, but it's not that easy to just get over it. I'm not that kind of person, and if it was easy for me, then i dont think i'd WANT to be that type of person. Take your time guys. Follow your hearts because at the end you'll know that you did everything possible, and you'll be able to use that commitment for future relationships if things dont turn out the way you want with this one. When I'm looking for a potential mate, I look at their past actions and if I meet someone who was commited to saving their marriage, then I'd be highly interested in them. So your actions now speak volumes even if it wont save this relationship.

 

At the same time, you need to be able to keep your own dignity and self respect. Dont let anyone disrespect you. And dont do anything you will regret in the future. Stay true to yourself.

[Guest]

Wow, it's amazing that so many men have the same story - mine has been pretty much the exact same thing. My wife determined that she had lost herself and wants time to go and "find herself" - even wants the opportunity to date other men - like telling me this makes the infidelity OK.

 

In short, I understand and empathize with what you're going through. I can't eat, sleep or focus on anything else and my manly desire to "control" the situation just makes it more frustrating and intolerable.

 

I've been doing a lot of reading and have found a book that you simply must read....Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix, PHD. If you want to understand where things went wrong and why you're wife is feeling emptiness in your marriage - read this book! I wish I could tell you that it would "fix" you situation with your wife but sadly, it may not. The upside however, is that it will prepare you for your next relationship. As with my own situation, I hope that your next relationship is with your wife.

As it was put to me....you'r relationship you have had with your wife is OVER. Prepare yourself for your next relationship. Hopefully it will be with your wife. Either way, your next relationship, if you truly understand and relate to the above mentioned book, will be much more intimate and complete.

 

Lastly I will offer this poiece of wisdom. I could not follow it myself as it was simply too painfull to be in the house with a wife that I love som much but doesn't want to be with me. The idea is to learn to live WITH someone, not without them. Separation will likely lead to getting used to being single and will not necessarily lead to reconcilliation.

 

Best of luck. As others have stated focus on yourself for now.

[Woggle]

I respect the fact you want to make this work and you are willing to forgive her but she is putting you through hell right now. I truly don't understand why so many men feel it is our duty to take whatever a woman dishes out at us and be understanding. Many women would not put up with half the stuff that you guys are tolerating so why do you feel the need? Men need to start learning how to live on our own and be happy because this is happening more and more these days. Maybe I am cold but I just don't see the point in begging a woman to love you and hanging on like a desperate pathetic lapdog, Have some respect yourself. If you start growing a spine and actually show that you will be happy without her that might the one and only thing to save this marriage because she will respect you and respect is what matters most.

[DesperateDad]

Woggle, I do respect your opinion on this and I understand what you're saying. I still think it's a little too soon to be giving up for either me or uksurfer.

 

I'm having some of the same feelings you've mentioned. I get furious sometimes and think of how easy it would be for me to start dating again. I actually do get a lot of attention from younger women (I work at a college). It definitely does piss me off that I'm having to go through this now. I know I have a lot to offer a woman and that I've made vast improvements in myself over the last few years. I'm still working on improving myself, but mostly for ME.

 

I know it might bring my wife around eventually, but this is also about how I want to live. I definitely am NOT going to hang around and get my ass handed to me day in and day out. I'm not going to stay in limbo forever while my wife decides if she wants to go for something better.

 

Honestly, if it weren't for the kids, I might have all ready said 'f*** it' and moved on. But they are my FIRST responsibility. Staying together, as long as the household is peaceful and stable, will be better for them. If I can't maintain that peace and stability for them, it's time to move on.

 

I'm taking it day by day, as I'm sure most of us in the same situation are. Getting pissed off and moving out isn't going to be the best long term solution and would be something our kids will always remember.

[Woggle]

You guys should at least talk to a lawyer to find a way to keep from getting raped in if and when a divorce does happen. Devise a plan to go into divorce court with and maybe that might put some sense back into your wives. You have to be a man and stand up for yourself because believe me when s*** hits the fan she will not show any mercy.