I'm totally and utterly heartbroken.

[dgiirl]

I cant believe I'm about to say this, but I agree with Woggle. Setting some boundaries is very important. It helps you keep your own dignity. You dont need to be mean or disrespectful to her, but you also have to show her what life means without you. You dont want to be in a situation where she relies on you emotionally for some needs, but not for others. The dreaded "Let's be friends with an ex" crap. I think you're doing very well. It will be really hard in the next few months, and you'll be second guessing everything you do, but always have faith that no matter what happens, it will get better.

[Ladyjane14]

I've spent the last 6 weeks worrying about her and her state of mind instead of worrying about myself, and that needs to change.

 

Too right it does.

 

There's a school of thought that when you enable the bad behavior.... you perpetuate it. As Dgiirl has said:

You dont need to be mean or disrespectful to her, but you also have to show her what life means without you. You dont want to be in a situation where she relies on you emotionally for some needs, but not for others. The dreaded "Let's be friends with an ex" crap.

[Gunny376]

"You're on your own ~ you got to "go" for yourself!"

And, I was just stabbing in the dark about it being about you or some kind of test. Trying to make rational sense out of illrantionality?

 

But, no matter how you slice it ~ dice it ~ chop it up ~ dress it up ~ it cmes down this ~ "Oh! I just don't feel like being a full time Mum or wife anymore ~ I guess I'll just do it part time when I feel like it"

 

How nice? How convienant? When is it your turn to be a part time parent? A part time Dad?

 

Your doing ALL of the giving ~ and getting damn littile return on your investment of time, effort, energy, emotions, money. And, that's not hard azz Gunny talk ~ that' straight up balancing the books. The "oddles" (a descriptive term used in economics class to describe the feeling ~ emotion one gets from doing, or owning something for which a monetary amount cannot be attached or otherwise accounted for) in her account are plying

up ~ while yours are in the red.

 

Its like throwing a party ~ you're bringing the beer, the drinks, the chips, the dip, the prizes, the suprises, the cake, the ice cream, even the damn clown and the pony ~ what is SHE bringing to the party?

 

And, I not necssary saying that now is the time to push "tha' button" but as I said she's closing a window of opportunity here ~ that one day is going to be slammed shut in her face.

 

Which just reminded me of something ~ could it be that she's going through early menopause or the early stages of early menopause? I'd get this gal to a Dr. for a complete workup ~ somethings just not right.

 

My Dad's second wife was about eight years younger than he was ~ one day when he was in his 50's my step-mom walked out and annuonced that she was completely done with sex. Completely! To make a long story short Dad said alright and went and found a friends with benefits ~ who was interested in sex ~ but not interested in getting into anything more than a sexual relationship. To make a long story short ~ he got caught ~ they had a big blow up ~ she threatened to divorce him and take everythig he had ~ he ALL BUT burned the house down ("You want the lvingroom suite ~ you better get a Dustbuster ~ because I'm going to burned it to the groud! {Its apparently isn't illegal in Alabama for a man to burn his own house down ~ in so long as its paid for and he cancels the insurance policy ~ LOL} ~ anyway SM goes to Dr, and gets some horomones ~ problem solved. They went on for 32 years of marriage until he passed away.

 

"Gunny moment" ROTFLMAO! I wouldn't recommend too many of those ~ you'll start forgetting where you left your keys!

[Gunny376]

I'd be interested to see how she would re-act if she came around one day and you had two young vibrant twenty something vixens siting around chatting and having a bit of tea. Hell ~ I'd hire me a couple ~ just to see. And, when she asked who they were? I would say ~ "Oh! Just freinds of mine!"

 

Of course one of my post~divorce fantasies was to make boo-koo money, build a mansion across the road from my XW ~ build an Olympic size pool in the FRONT yard ~ and hire a bunch of college co-ed's to just sit around and tan themesleves all day ~ and then as my ex pulled out of her driveway yell at her in my best Dwight Yokum voice ~ 'HEY GIRL!!!! HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW!!!!!!" LOL!

[uksurfer]

Which just reminded me of something ~ could it be that she's going through early menopause or the early stages of early menopause? I'd get this gal to a Dr. for a complete workup ~ somethings just not right.

 

Yep, one of the first things I though of, too. Either for hormones, perimenopause, early menopause, or severe depression, she needs to get herself checked out. If only to prevent her from living the rest of her life on the run from herself.

 

Only thing is that she refuses point blank to go see the doc. Nothing I can do about that.

 

I'd be interested to see how she would re-act if she came around one day and you had two young vibrant twenty something vixens siting around chatting and having a bit of tea. Hell ~ I'd hire me a couple ~ just to see. And, when she asked who they were? I would say ~ "Oh! Just freinds of mine!"

 

Now that would be class. And yeah, I'd be interested to see how she'd react, too.

[stillafool]

How nice! How special! How wonderful that you live in such a simple world! Where everything is so cut and clear! Where everything is so black and white! Where there's no gray! This is like you're telling some Vet to just get over it! Put it in the past! The same Vet that cried his eyes out while he tried to stuff his buddy's ~ his best friend ~ the one that took "one" for him ~ guts back into his stomach~! You go there, you live that reality ~ then you come and talk to me! We'll at least have a "point of comparission! We'll have something to talk about! You don't have a f***ing clue as to what you're talking about!

 

Its not just about him, nor her, but about "them" ~ her, him, and them ~with "them" being defined as those chidren who have a RIGHT to their natuaral mother and father! That's the "fight" that's being fought! You're such an idiot! You've don't have a clue! Its about being a part of something "greater" than yourself!

 

I'll shut up ~before I get Pissed off!

 

I really don't appreciate your cursing at me and telling me I don't have a fu--king clue as to what I'm talking about. You have no idea what I've been through. You want to give advice to hold on and continue to wallow in misery and I am giving advice to strengthen Urksurfer based on my past experience with ex husband and live in BF's. As far as Vet's are concerned I have the utmost respect and I don't think these two situations are a fair comparison. I am a woman who has been on both sides of the fence in Urksurfer's situation and I can tell you that for him to let her continue on the way she is doing is only holding him in limbo and he needs to move on. If she sees him set boundaries and not be her parent she will have to come to some serious decisions really soon. To let her continue to do him as she wishes why should she have to make any major decisions in her life. It's clear she's coming over to eat and still enjoy what's at home and then run back to her room (not even staying to put the kids to sleep). I don't think I have ever given you any advice on your posts nor do I plan to as it seems you are quite content to follow your method. You have no right to tell me how to advise anyone as I don't tell you what to say. I think your being verbally abusive was totally uncalled for and doesn't help anyone on this forum!

[stillafool]

I'd be interested to see how she would re-act if she came around one day and you had two young vibrant twenty something vixens siting around chatting and having a bit of tea. Hell ~ I'd hire me a couple ~ just to see. And, when she asked who they were? I would say ~ "Oh! Just freinds of mine!"

 

Of course one of my post~divorce fantasies was to make boo-koo money, build a mansion across the road from my XW ~ build an Olympic size pool in the FRONT yard ~ and hire a bunch of college co-ed's to just sit around and tan themesleves all day ~ and then as my ex pulled out of her driveway yell at her in my best Dwight Yokum voice ~ 'HEY GIRL!!!! HOW YOU LIKE ME NOW!!!!!!" LOL!

 

 

BTW, silly little games like this are a waste of time. I believe in grown up choices!!! As you said it's not just about him and her but the children, and this suggestion is very childdish. When Urksurfer gets past this, and he will, either they will reconcile or he will have another woman of substance who adores him that his wife will see and that will definitely hurt a lot more than having two twentysomethings sitting around the house. Great advice!!

[Gunny376]

BTW, silly little games like this are a waste of time. I believe in grown up choices!!! As you said it's not just about him and her but the children, and this suggestion is very childdish. When Urksurfer gets past this, and he will, either they will reconcile or he will have another woman of substance who adores him that his wife will see and that will definitely hurt a lot more than having two twentysomethings sitting around the house. Great advice!!

 

Chill ~! He knows I was just talking "smack" He's been mature and responsible thus far to date ~

 

In situations like this you've got to try and maintain your sense of humor. Sometimes, you've got to laugh to keep from crying.

 

Here's a hug for you ~ and a bunny too!

[Gunny376]

I really don't appreciate your cursing at me and telling me I don't have a fu--king clue as to what I'm talking about. You have no idea what I've been through. You want to give advice to hold on and continue to wallow in misery and I am giving advice to strengthen Urksurfer based on my past experience with ex husband and live in BF's. As far as Vet's are concerned I have the utmost respect and I don't think these two situations are a fair comparison. I am a woman who has been on both sides of the fence in Urksurfer's situation and I can tell you that for him to let her continue on the way she is doing is only holding him in limbo and he needs to move on. If she sees him set boundaries and not be her parent she will have to come to some serious decisions really soon. To let her continue to do him as she wishes why should she have to make any major decisions in her life. It's clear she's coming over to eat and still enjoy what's at home and then run back to her room (not even staying to put the kids to sleep). I don't think I have ever given you any advice on your posts nor do I plan to as it seems you are quite content to follow your method. You have no right to tell me how to advise anyone as I don't tell you what to say. I think your being verbally abusive was totally uncalled for and doesn't help anyone on this forum!

 

So I guess this means I won't be getting a Christmas card from you this year, huh?

 

Here's you another bunny:bunny:

[uksurfer]

He knows I was just talking "smack"

 

Awww, man! You were just talking smack?? Damn. How the hell am I going to tell these two young vibrant twenty something vixens sitting here that I've gotten them in under false pretences?

[VegasFan]

I just finished reading this entire thread (took me two days), and I just wanted to say that you're in my prayers surfer. I know what you're going through. Many years ago I was living with a girl who I loved very much. She cheated on me and moved out, and I was crushed. Fast forward 10 or so years and I am now happily married and have two great kids. However I always have this sinking fear deep in my gut that it could all happen again. Anyway, there is a lot of good advice in this thread that all of us can learn from (especially Gunny's post on page 15). Good luck to you man. Take care of yourself.

[Gunny376]

Awww, man! You were just talking smack?? Damn. How the hell am I going to tell these two young vibrant twenty something vixens sitting here that I've gotten them in under false pretences?

 

Lock the front door ~ keep them occupied, until I get there ~ I'm coming right over ~ and I'll help you figure something out when I get there!

 

ps ~ Which should I bring Beefeaters, some Bush, or both? You got ice?

[uksurfer]

I just finished reading this entire thread (took me two days)

 

I should hope it takes people 2 days to read... it took me 6 1/2 years to think up the damned story.

 

She cheated on me and moved out, and I was crushed.

 

Yeah, it's weird because I can now REALLY empathise with women who have been left behind with the kids - because that's what's happened here. Not that I'm saying I'm a bit of a woman, , but it's me who's caring for the kids at the end of the day here. And yep, crushed is definitely one of the words I'd use.

 

It's tough in other ways, too. Like I was just thinking tonight that I just don't have anyone in the house anymore to talk to. You can't have much of a conversation with 2 kids under 5, and she's obviously doing fine in that respect in her new apartment box that she shares with an entire football team of scottish lesbians.

 

Fast forward 10 or so years and I am now happily married and have two great kids. However I always have this sinking fear deep in my gut that it could all happen again.

 

That's actually the thing that's worrying me the most. That I'll never be able to put complete trust in anyone like I just did in this relationship. That I'll never be able to fully let go and just be *me* again, like I did here too, without thinking that I need to hold something back - just in case...

 

Happily married, two kids. You sound like you're doing OK, though!

 

Anyway, there is a lot of good advice in this thread that all of us can learn from (especially Gunny's post on page 15).

 

Yep, a hell of a lot. And don't you also mean Gunny's posts on pages 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19 and 20?

 

Good luck to you man. Take care of yourself.

 

Cheers man. Appreciate it. You too.

[uksurfer]

Lock the front door ~ keep them occupied, until I get there ~ I'm coming right over ~ and I'll help you figure something out when I get there!

 

ps ~ Which should I bring Beefeaters, some Bush, or both? You got ice?

 

Door's locked. Bring both. Hurry up man, they're getting restless.

[Gunny376]

I really don't appreciate your cursing at me and telling me I don't have a fu--king clue as to what I'm talking about. You have no idea what I've been through. You want to give advice to hold on and continue to wallow in misery and I am giving advice to strengthen Urksurfer based on my past experience with ex husband and live in BF's. As far as Vet's are concerned I have the utmost respect and I don't think these two situations are a fair comparison. I am a woman who has been on both sides of the fence in Urksurfer's situation and I can tell you that for him to let her continue on the way she is doing is only holding him in limbo and he needs to move on. If she sees him set boundaries and not be her parent she will have to come to some serious decisions really soon. To let her continue to do him as she wishes why should she have to make any major decisions in her life. It's clear she's coming over to eat and still enjoy what's at home and then run back to her room (not even staying to put the kids to sleep). I don't think I have ever given you any advice on your posts nor do I plan to as it seems you are quite content to follow your method. You have no right to tell me how to advise anyone as I don't tell you what to say. I think your being verbally abusive was totally uncalled for and doesn't help anyone on this forum!

 

Yes, I'm a rude, crude, knuckle~dragging masculine brute of a Marine grunt ~ and I make no apoligies to that effect ~ but I do offer up for your consideration for bringing such here to this most august forumn ~ and to you my fair lady ~ apolgies for having offended you ~ and I'm sincere in that ~

 

Now, I will shut~up, and let you wonder if I am truly the fool that I am ~ rather than give confrimation to that effect!

 

Hugs and here are TWO bunnies ~ :bunny:

 

Three if it will make you smile ~ :bunny:

 

Four it it will make you laugh ~ :bunny: :bunny:

 

Five if it will make you forget my transgression ~ :bunny: :bunny:

[Gunny376]

Cute little buggers ~ aren't they!

[Gunny376]

:bunny: :bunny: :bunny:

 

Just to see the twinkle in your eye!

[Gunny376]

 

 

That's actually the thing that's worrying me the most. That I'll never be able to put complete trust in anyone like I just did in this relationship. That I'll never be able to fully let go and just be *me* again, like I did here too, without thinking that I need to hold something back - just in case...

 

That's me ~ NOW ~ I know about bi-polar disorder~ ADHD, obessive~compusive dis~horder, menopause etc. You're clicking along for twenty years, and "BAM!!!!" Five weeks of what you've been going through! It ain't no joke! Its not pretty, and its not fun! It ain't no joke!

[stillafool]

Thank you for the apologies Gunny and they are accepted. Afterall you are a marine ~ my favorite. :bunny: :bunny:

[uksurfer]

Check this out (and the reply): http://midlifecrisisforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9881035001/m/2761078332

 

Sound familiar to anyone reading this thread?

 

There's a thousand posts like this over on that forum - it explains a lot, really.

 

Still doesn't help much, though.

 

 

(I think I'm actually just going to go for the record number of posts in a thread with this one, now... . )

[uksurfer]

Here's another good site that explains a LOT from my point of view: http://www.depressionfallout.com/index.php

 

It's actually convinced me beyond all reasonable doubt that my wife has depression of some sort. There's a lot of other people posting on this site about their depressed spouses who are doing and saying virtually the exact same things as my wife. Having said that, she's also been showing lots of other symptoms of depression - sleeplessness, back and neck pain, etc.

 

Only problem is, how do you try to tell her that she may have depression and that she should go to the docs for a check when in her mind she's doing "the right thing" - absolutely, positively and without doubt?

 

Is it still a good idea to do NC? Stupidly enough, I actually still want to help her, rather than drive her further away.

 

I feel sick.

[uksurfer]

Oh, and check this:

http://www.depressionfallout.com/symptomsofdepression.php

 

I think this page was written about my wife.

 

[uksurfer]

I know this is out of character for me , but I've been doing a bit of thinking.

 

How about this little plan...

 

I'm not one for ultimatums, but after reading that site about depression fallout, and how close it fits in with what she's doing, I think I'm gonna give her one. An ultimatum, that is.

 

I'm going to tell her that unless she goes and gets herself checked out for depression, I want this break up to happen properly. I.e., no contact, no keeping her stuff here, no sitting around the house pretending to play with the kids, no popping round for dinner or a coffee, no popping round every other night, no nothing. If she wants to take the kids out, she needs to take them out - which will be hard for her to do. If she doesn't go to the docs, I want her out of my life completely - apart from whatever needs to be said about the kids - because that's what I need to allow me to heal.

 

Does anyone think this is a really, really bad idea? Tell me, because I guess I don't have anything to lose right now, huh.

 

And how do you think I should actually break this to her?

 

Hmmm...

[Woggle]

Just tell her you are through playing these games and that until she decides she needs to go do her own thing. If she wants to live the single life then she really needs to fully live the single life. It seems like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. If

[Ladyjane14]

Does anyone think this is a really, really bad idea? Tell me, because I guess I don't have anything to lose right now, huh.

 

And how do you think I should actually break this to her?

 

What your describing sounds alot like marriagebuilders Plan B. Basically, what that entails is writing a Plan B Letter and outlining your boundaries. Then you withdraw from the relationship. You stop fulfilling ENS, and you stop contact altogether when feasable.

 

The PBL is essentially a Love Letter. So, you let your partner know how much you love her and that you really do want to work it out. You might tell your wife some of the specific reasons you love her, or share some memories of better days.

 

Then you tell her that what she's doing is hurting you, and that you need to remove yourself from the conflict until she works out her issues. You set specific boundaries. IOW.... "these are the things you need to accomplish before I can accept you back". The PBL is the roadmap home. She needs to meet your terms.

 

You can get more details by googling the words, "What are Plan A and Plan B, marriagebuilders".

 

Give it some thought. There's room in Plan A for setting up boundaries *and* meeting ENs. But when you're ready to STOP meeting your WW's needs and create a vacuum effect, it's probably better to Plan B.