overwhelmed Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Hey All, I'm 23 as is my girlfriend of about 2 years. When we first started dating we had the infamous "How many?" talk. She told me that she had slept with 13 guys including myself. I was initially not thrilled about this number but I didn't say anything to her. My feelings were that hey, it's in the past, it's not THAT incredibly high and at least she was honest with me. About a month ago I found out she was lying through her teeth. I ran into a guy that had slept with her that I had no idea about (friend of one of my roommates). I confronted her about it and her number changed from 13 guys to 15. After about a week, I confronted her again after realizing how stupid I was to believe that she only shaved two people off of her list. First her number moved from 13 to 15, then 16, 18, 20 and finally 23 guys. It kills me because she often barely knew these people and many were unprotected. I hate to think of her this way and I told her I needed some time to reevaluate things. I don't want to call her names or make her feel bad but that's all I can seem to think of these days. What do I do? I would love to be able to forget about these guys but I can't shake the feeling that 23 is more than any sane guy would accept in a potential wife...HELP! Link to post Share on other sites
agnf666 Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Okay... so you have been dating her for 2 yrs and didn't know her number. Maybe she didn't want to tell you her number being that it was really high. That could have been it. Unless she is still with you and her number keeps progressing up there. Too me it looks like this makes you feel very uncomfortable. I dated a guy that slept with 27 women. Now, that was awkward, but I was okay with that. If she is not cheating on you, and she doesn't have anything nasty going on downstairs, then it should be okay. I mean that s*** is in the past though, maybe since your number is not so high that might be why your having this problem Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Me and the SO never had the "SO, how many people have you been with" talk. It is completely pointless to discuss this. All that matters is that your partner is clean and faithful. I had alot of unprotected sex when I was younger, and my SO knows this because we have talked about our private lives and past mistakes, but the number doesn't count to him. All that counts is that we love each other and whatever number of people I've slept with stops w/him. When you take someone, you take them for better or worse. Someones past shouldn't be held against them unless maybe they have a criminal past or something. If it really bothers you all that bad, then break up w/her. If you want her, then quit holding it over her head. It isn't right that she lied, but it shouldn't be ok for someone to ask such a personal question about ones past. If you don't want to break up w/her, then let it go. I've been w/alot of people, and I am a damn good girlfriend to my SO, and I will be a damn good wife. It isn't fair for anyone to judge me or your g/f about what kind of wife we are going to be judged by our past. Link to post Share on other sites
MadDog Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Yeah, who really gives a damn. 2 or 20, what difference does it make as long as she doesn't have any STDs? If she's been through 20 guys and realizes you're "the one," it means you've got it going on. Link to post Share on other sites
shoedevil Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I don't want to call her names or make her feel bad but that's all I can seem to think of these days. What do I do? I would love to be able to forget about these guys but I can't shake the feeling that 23 is more than any sane guy would accept in a potential wife...HELP! Well, you shouldn't call her names or judge her. But you also don't have to be in a relationship with her. You are not obligated to accept everything that she has done, especially her lying to you. If you want to find a girl to settle down with, marry, maybe have kids with (key word here is role model), then look for someone who shares your values and ethics. Your relationship will last a lot longer than it would otherwise. A lot of people on these boards will tell you that numbers don't matter, and sex is just sex (context isn't important), but her numbers are 5-7 times the average for a woman of any age. She had every right to do what she wanted, but what she has done can tell you a lot about her judgement and character. I do find it interesting how many people can justify dishonesty for the sake of their own happiness. I think this trend makes it that much more difficult to find the right person to settle down with. If she really cared about you, she would have been completely honest so that you could make an informed decision about being with her. If it's important to you, then it's important to know. Other people may call you nosy or insecure, but I think your comfort level and happiness are the real reasons you're concerned about this. In order to keep you in the relationship, she felt it necessary to lie about her past. In my opinion, that seems more like manipulation and control than it does true love. Link to post Share on other sites
TeaCooler Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 so many of you seem to be of the opinion that all is well "as long as she doesn't have any std's". i understand this is an unpleasant thing, and most of us do not require or prefer std's as an attribute in a date, but a person who slept with 23 people and didn't get a disease was just luckier than the one who did get the disease. i know, i know, no one wants to have an std. but when so many people here say "love them no matter what, there are ways to be intimate and be careful even when you have an std, just be smart and talk to doctors" it seems a bit...well, the exact opposite to say having an std is a deal-breaker. he was with her for 2 years. yeah, she shouldn't have lied, but we all know the mind-benders surrounding correct answers to past-partner questions. no one knows what anyone wants to hear, no one knows if anyone is telling the truth, and no one can change or control the truth anyway. so are some of you saying that if this girl has an std, she is unworthy of love? that the act of sleeping with 23 people is suddenly applauded in the event that she makes it out okay at the end? i see something wrong this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 so are some of you saying that if this girl has an std, she is unworthy of love? that the act of sleeping with 23 people is suddenly applauded in the event that she makes it out okay at the end? i see something wrong this. No, having an std does not mean she shouldn't be able to find someone to love her. If the OP was saying he was uncomfortable w/his g/f having an std that would make sense since he would be worried about his health and the health of his future children. All I am saying is that the fact that shes had multiple partners in her past has nothing to do with what kind of person she will be in the future. I can speak in experience because I've had lots of partners because I was younge and stupid. THen I had a baby and it completely changed my life and I began to see what an unhealthy lifestyle I was leading. Now I am a good mother to my son and a good girlfriend to my SO. My past had no affect on the person I am today except that I am wiser. So should I be judged for my past? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TeaCooler Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 So should I be judged for my past? i wasn't saying "a girl who slept with 23 people is just as bad as a girl who slept with 23 people and has an std. my point is that a girl who slept with 23 guys and got an std isn't any worse than a girl who slept with 23 guys and didn't get one. so no, i don't think you should be judged. people will, of course, judge you, but this can be avoided by thinking "hey...it's none of their business...and i don't have to let anyone know anything i don't want them to know." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 PS, I'm not condoning the fact that she lied. Obviously she wasn't proud of the fact she had that many partners. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 i wasn't saying "a girl who slept with 23 people is just as bad as a girl who slept with 23 people and has an std. my point is that a girl who slept with 23 guys and got an std isn't any worse than a girl who slept with 23 guys and didn't get one. so no, i don't think you should be judged. people will, of course, judge you, but this can be avoided by thinking "hey...it's none of their business...and i don't have to let anyone know anything i don't want them to know." My point exactly. Thats why couples should never have the "numbers" talk. It's nobodies business Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 the only people i know that think it's nobody's business are the ones with so many partners that they're ashamed...like this girl. Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellFire Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 LOL, I think there is this old saying that goes: whatever amount she says she slept with, multiply that by 5 (or 10). She seems too ashamed to ever be honest about it. It depends what you are comfortable with or used to. It would kill me if my husband lied about his past to me and made me view him differently than I previously did. One thing I would be concerned with are those habits. Habits are hard to change. Who's to say she isn't yearning for different men to bang like she used to? But then, maybe it's also out of her system? I don't know, but if you are unhappy with it, that's what counts. I guess maybe you should talk to her about being honest. Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellFire Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 "but it shouldn't be ok for someone to ask such a personal question about ones past." Why shouldn't you be privileged to your partner's past? That's an excuse someone would use if they had something negative to hide or were ashamed of their past. Same thing if you hubby was an ex-con. I'd like to know. But everyone is different! Maybe some people can have fine relationships without knowing their partner's flaws. But I'd rather know before marriage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 "but it shouldn't be ok for someone to ask such a personal question about ones past." Why shouldn't you be privileged to your partner's past? That's an excuse someone would use if they had something negative to hide or were ashamed of their past. Same thing if you hubby was an ex-con. I'd like to know. But everyone is different! Maybe some people can have fine relationships without knowing their partner's flaws. But I'd rather know before marriage. Ex-con yes. But come on, we're talking about past sexual partners. I would hardly call that a flaw. If everyone thought like this than that girl nor I would ever find love. I'm just curious, does your SO/spouse know every little detail about your past? I don't mean just your sexual past. If we're gonna say something like "Why shouldn't you be privileged to your partner's past" then that means everything under the sun. Some things are just private and your better off not knowing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellFire Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 My partner knows pretty much everything BASIC about my past. Knowing a persons sexual partners is a common question. Nobody asked her explicit details. Just a question and most people would like to know, unless they themselves don't want to delve into their own past. It depends on how comfortable you are with your husband I guess and how much you have to hide or just what type of a relationship you planned on having. If it's a mutual "our relationship is from here forward", that is quite fine! But this man posting has different beliefs. Nobody wants to go into details, that's fine. But a simple question is a simple question. And this guy seems like he probably wouldn't have gotten involved with this woman if she had that many partners because it makes him uncomfortable and feel differently about this person, which is why these things should be discussed before the relationship gets too deep. Or in the best case scenario, he would have gotten over it early, accepted it, and decided she was still worth dating. But now the dishonesty and constant revelations is probably killing him. And HONESTY should be key. It bothers him and there is really maybe not much to ease him if he has certain beliefs or values set in which he wants to find in a partner. And finding out these revelations later really can rip a person apart. It hurts. Save the pain and BE HONEST! If you don't want to say the number, you just tell your partner "i am not comfortable talking about that and i want to have a clean slate with you" and if he accepts that, great! But don't lie... those lies will be exposed later for the better or the worse. Not always the case, but past behavior is a pretty good indicator of future behavior. Like a man who cheated on his last girlfriends, slept around a lot. That information I would like to find out. I would just be wary of a person like that and probably not even consider them serious for a relationship. Like if I was single and I found out a guy has slept with 25+ women, I wouldn't expect our relationship to really go anywhere. His only interests are sex. People change, but most men are dogs as it is, so yeah I think it would be some sort of an indicator of character with a male. On the other hand, I find a male who has been in several serious relationships and cared about the well-being of his ex-girlfriend while it laster or children.. I mean, yeah I would consider the latter before the prior. Usually you can tell a lie pretty easily too like if a guy claims to have only slept with one girl, but then tries to get into your pants the same day he meets you... LOL... i mean some things are obvious. As for women, I don't know. If he's going to make this relationship work, he's got to change his whole mindset that he has had for maybe his whole life of the type of woman he was trying to seek for a serious relationship. That's tough and she might be a great girlfriend. But the problem is that she is probably hiding even a lot more and this man is the type of person who likes to know the past of the person he is dating. And one revelation after another surfacing after constant lying is not going to be fun. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I guess maybe I see it differently because I was promiscuous in my past and I don't see how that has affected me at all. In fact it has prolly done more good in the long run. I now take more pride in myself since before I had no self esteem and no sense of self worth. I agree with the honesty point. She should have either told him the truth or told him she wasn't comfortable talking about her past. But OP didn't seem to be so stuck on the honesty issue as he was the fact she had 23 sex partners in her past. Why would it hurt you just because your partner had other sex partner before you? What if they have great chemistry and are very compatible but end up not staying together because he can't get over she had sex with other people? It just seems extremely shallow. I can't help but wonder if it just bothers him because she was with more people than he had. Men in general seem to have a need to be more dominent in areas like that. Overwhelmed, I don't know your g/f. Maybe she is very promiscuous and not to be trusted. I don't know. But please don't hold people's pasts against them. I am living proof that just because you have slept with more people than you are proud of doesn't mean you can't be a good spouse. People make mistakes. In this aspect, sex could be looked at like stealing, or dishonesty. Just because you've done it in your past doesn't mean you can't be a good person. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellFire Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 What I'm kind of worried about is that once the trust is kind of broken, then the snooping and constant quizzing comes about. And it's really NO way to live. And I can kind of tell that that is what he has been doing, since he said her number are always changing. He must be kind of obsessed with asking her about it. And aside from that, then you get paranoid about the lying wondering about much more serious things, "what if he/she's cheating etc etc etc". I was going to make a long post regarding my situation, but I guess I'm not ready for that yet. GL anyways people. Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellFire Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 What I'm kind of worried about is that once the trust is kind of broken, then the snooping and constant quizzing comes about. And it's really NO way to live. And I can kind of tell that that is what he has been doing, since he said her number are always changing. He must be kind of obsessed with asking her about it. And aside from that, then you get paranoid about the lying wondering about much more serious things, "what if he/she's cheating etc etc etc". I was going to make a long post about my situation, but I'm really not ready for that yet. GL to everyone anyways, and I hope you can work it out dude, but 2 years.... and you still have trouble accepting it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author overwhelmed Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 The trust factor is the big one here. I guess I value honesty and disclosure from any potential girlfriend and I don't think that's out of the ordinary or wrong. I was forthcoming with details of my past (sexual or otherwise) with this girl because I thought she had a right to know my dirty secrets before establishing a relationship with me. Is the number bothering me too? you're damn right. I am religious guy and while I'm far from perfect, I guess I just have different view points on sex than this girl. I know that forgiveness and redemption have to be possible for all of us, but it kills me that she continued to lie even after the deception was exposed. Now I wonder, "Will this girl cheat?" "What else has she lied about?" "Are there videos of her with fourteen midgets and a donkey on the internet?" I think I should have had the option to continue or discontinue the relationship with all of the information presented to me BEFORE it got serious (like now, 2 years into it). But more than that, I guess the trust thing is what is going to end this otherwise good relationship. Without trust, there is nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I understand the honesty thing, but I mean jeez, it aint like she cheated on you. And what does religion have to do with it? so you can sleep w/her and its ok but she can't have slept w/anyone else? What religion is that? I think the only reason she lied about the number thing is because she knew you would be a baby about it, and looks like she was right. Not justifying her lying, but jeez, I can't blame her for not wanting to talk about her personal past. Link to post Share on other sites
Author overwhelmed Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 It's not a matter that she slept with anyone else. it's the fact that she slept with everyone else. the only people that justify lying about their sexual past are those promiscuous people who are ashamed of it. i gave her no inkling of how i would react to her number when the conversation first happened. hell she told me 13, and i didn't like such a high number...but i never let her know that. but that number jumping to 23? yeah, i'm gonna be upset because it's high, but more so because i was lied to. the only reason to be ashamed of your past is if you've done something SHAMEFUL. Yeah, we're all going to have our past sexual experiences, but it says a lot about a person when they let their numbers get to the point that it embarrasses even themselves. If she had told me 23 from the beginning I would have had the option to be OK with it or not...your man may be OK with being with the town bike, I however, am not. Link to post Share on other sites
TeaCooler Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 It's not a matter that she slept with anyone else. it's the fact that she slept with everyone else. the only people that justify lying about their sexual past are those promiscuous people who are ashamed of it. yeah, i'm gonna be upset because it's high, but more so because i was lied to. the only reason to be ashamed of your past is if you've done something SHAMEFUL. If she had told me 23 from the beginning I would have had the option to be OK with it or not...your man may be OK with being with the town bike, I however, am not. no wonder she didn't want to be honest with you. by the way, just because someone thinks something isn't your business doesn't mean that they are ashamed. it can mean pretty simply that it just isn't your business. you're acting like it's the lying that is the problem, and it's quite obviously not. you think she's a whore. if anyone should be ashamed, it's you for being ashamed of someone you claimed to love and for thinking you're better than her and any of the other guys she was with. maybe she's had as many partners as she's had because she keeps meeting dickheads and not realizing it until after she sleeps with them. ever think of that? Link to post Share on other sites
Author overwhelmed Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Maybe people should be more careful and more selective about who they give their bodies too. Yeah, my previous post was full of pissy insults but I'm just trying to find a way to vent without making her feel like s***. Whatever happened to making someone wait before you sleep with them? Or actually getting to know the person before you engage in such a special act. I keep getting these responses by people basically saying that we're all just a bunch of animals out there screwing whoever and that's OK. I was led to believe that my girlfriend was not one of those people and yes, now i'm very hurt to find out that I was wrong. I waited to sleep with this girl out of respect so please excuse me if I feel kinda screwed over about being tricked into a long term relationship. I don't mean to piss on the people responding, but most of you like to trivialize something that is causing me a great deal of heartache. Link to post Share on other sites
Cecelius Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Overwhelmed, I feel your pain -- well, I mean I've seen your situation at your age. On the cheating thing, I have to say that chances are this means nothing about her cheating tendencies -- in my experience, the girls who sleep around this much are either basically dudes in a woman's body or girls so lacking in self esteem that they will find acceptance (or have come just not to care) wherever they can get it -- which means that she will stick to you like glue. So I don't think she's a cheating risk. But I fully understand what you are saying about being "tricked" -- not that she did it intentionally, because to her, you are a good guy -- one of the few that didn't just bang her and get up and walk away (literally). Chances are these are tons of drunk party hook ups on some floor somewhere or some random bed with dudes she wouldn't even dream of dating. Meanwhile, you were nice and took your time, and that's part of why she loves you -- because you were better than they were. From your perspective, without being too crass, you are kind of ticked off that you thought this was a big deal and then you find out that she'd been giving it out to all kinds of people who didn't have to even buy her a burger first. Second, in my experience, what you would find if you got more details (which I DO NOT advise) is that there are tons of these dudes running around out there and that you know a lot of them. Some of them have probably had a chuckle about this, some of them are nice guys that you have had a beer or two with, your g/f standing there not saying a word, and now you feel like there was a dirty little secret that everyone else knew but you. Further, if this was going on all the way up till you started dating her, you feel like there's no reason to think she wouldn't still be doing this (ie, you've got nothing that proves she had changed). I can say that it is not as bad as you think, and it is not nearly as good as some people here will say it is. Just as no girl likes a guy who goes like a puppy dog from girl to girl getting dumped because he's too easy, there is nothing wrong with you concluding that her (likely) lack of self esteem just makes her less attractive at this point in your life. And I agree with that. At your age, you should not be facing down this kind of problem. Maybe if you were 10 years older and all these guys were truly in the past, it would be different. But, from where you are, you cannot proceed in this relationship unless you can let go of all the anger and disgust-- which is entirely up to you. But my sense is that you can't or won't (and I tend to understand why you can't or won't) unless you dump her. Some words of advice though (the following may not apply to her, but are offered just in case you see signs): *There is nothing to be gained from exploring any details -- all it will do is put fresh images in your head, make you see other people differently, etc. It will not give you any good perspective on things: when a girl gets into these situations, her own pride takes over at some point and she may do things to get through the situation that make it seem like she was into it even if she regrets it later -- to you, it will just make her seem like a porn star or a hooker. *This kind of historical self esteem problem does have future implications. The right relationship doesn't solve the underlying issues, whatever they are. In my experience, you have strong possibilities of addictive behavior in the future (food, booze, whatever). Wait till you're 30 and she's put on 100 lbs or become an alcoholic and then re-visit the part where you feel tricked... Unless something clearly shows that this stuff doesn't apply, there are problems ahead. *Contrary to what you might think, the fact is that she's been getting no where with these other guys historically and that you seem so perfect (because you didn't make it about sex so fast, are not mean, harsh, or a user like them) -- the strong possibility is that deep in the back of her mind she regards you as less dangerous than they were -- less formidable, more reliable -- more of a "nice guy." Not only is she not going to be grateful for you taking her bumps, bruises and all, but rather, at some point she may start to take you for granted in a way you cannot imagine her treating the other guys -- and in her mind, that won't be wrong or inequitable because you are such a great guy. There will be many assumptions and expectations she has for you, just because she's built up in her mind what the perfect guy is going to be like -- and that means you MUST accept stuff that she wouldn't have tried to get away with with these other guys she was so desparate to be with. Link to post Share on other sites
shoedevil Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Is the number bothering me too? you're damn right. I am religious guy and while I'm far from perfect, I guess I just have different view points on sex than this girl. I know that forgiveness and redemption have to be possible for all of us, but it kills me that she continued to lie even after the deception was exposed. I’m not religious, but I think I know where you’re coming from. I was lucky enough to find a girl who shared my standards and also managed to stick to them (though it took 8 years on the dating scene to find her). Maybe some people prefer sex within a committed relationship. And maybe they might want someone who feels the same way, someone who doesn’t need to lie to be happy. It’s probably too radical a concept these days. But if I were you I wouldn’t expect people who don’t understand or respect your beliefs to be very open-minded about them. I suppose people with different standards rarely understand one another (why people value things differently). Your girlfriend is not a whore or dirty, she’s a human being. But I really don’t think she’s the girl for you. I certainly couldn’t feel very special being with someone like that, but that’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t pay much attention to people who find the need to put words in your mouth or claim you have devious motives for being upset. I guess maybe I see it differently because I was promiscuous in my past and I don't see how that has affected me at all. In fact it has prolly done more good in the long run. I now take more pride in myself since before I had no self esteem and no sense of self worth. It's good that you were able to find someone to settle down and start a family with. And I agree that you shouldn’t hold someone’s past against them, maybe just take it into consideration (however, I’d hold someone’s dishonesty against them). But are you really glad you treated people as sex objects in order to find out what you want in life? I'm just wondering if you’ll teach your son that the ends justify the means? Link to post Share on other sites
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