Revenge...

[zarathustra]

Your advice is condescending ("do with it what you will"), but I think it’s because I am coming off as though he deserves all the blame. I’m not that stupid, honest.

 

I take no responsibility for him stepping outside the marriage. I absolutely, positively take 50 percent responsibility for the state of our marriage at the time he made that choice.

 

I know that to some degree, any affair is a byproduct of marital dysfunction. I do think that someone who can betray his spouse for so long and so deliberately, with no intention of ever leaving the marriage, has a few issues of his own to sort out. We won’t get through this without also analyzing the marriage itself from every angle, trust me.

Chump, I shared with you my own experience and you can take it or leave it. That is what I meant. As for advice, I didn't give any. I am in no position to give you any advice but I did made an observation. I am not a condescending person by nature and try to say it as I see it, but it appears to me that you harboured resentment towards me from the moment that I admitted that I was an OW and have decided to read negativity in my posts where none was intended.

 

I figure that I would be flamed here being an XOW.

 

 

With that said, I earnestly wish you best of luck in getting what you want out of your marriage. Everyone deserves happiness. I hope one day your hurt will ease and that you will find peace within yourself.

[dmanette]

This whole feeling sorry for the OW thing is new to me. I guess I feel as sorry for the OW as I do for my H...NOT!

 

I mean, she knew the job was dangerous when she took it, right?

 

I work in the field of criminal defense, and yes, it's sometimes sad that the people commiting these crimes are in jail or being punished but don't all choices come with consequences? There are times when the OW is an unknowing participant but when you are screwing a man in his home, you can't play the ignorance card honey.

 

Truthfully, I give a damn about either the OW's feelings or my H's. I care as much about them as they cared about me, my family, my sanity, or my well being! I saw screw em both!

 

dm-

[Chump64]

Z -- don’t read into things. I have a friend or two who post on the OW board, believe it or not. I think I am more resentful that you are defending Butta, who I am convinced is here only to cause hurt and pain.

 

Sorry for the resentment. Part of it is that I am irritated by OW who come here and toss out notions -- that have most likely been turned over in BSs’ minds hundreds of times -- such as the fact that we hold some of the blame for the marriage relationship, the fact that our spouse might still be cheating if not caught, the fact that our spouses violated the sanctity of our marriages repeatedly. That’s not supportive. We know that stuff and are trying like h*ll to work through it.

[zarathustra]

This whole feeling sorry for the OW thing is new to me. I guess I feel as sorry for the OW as I do for my H...NOT!

 

I mean, she knew the job was dangerous when she took it, right?

 

I work in the field of criminal defense, and yes, it's sometimes sad that the people commiting these crimes are in jail or being punished but don't all choices come with consequences? There are times when the OW is an unknowing participant but when you are screwing a man in his home, you can't play the ignorance card honey.

 

Truthfully, I give a damn about either the OW's feelings or my H's. I care as much about them as they cared about me, my family, my sanity, or my well being! I saw screw em both!

 

dm-

DM, I was presenting another side of the story. There's always two sides to the coin.

 

You are correct, when you are screwing a man in his home, you can't placy the ignorance card. I absolutely agree with that.

 

My background: I didn't choose to be the OW. My xMM made me into one. He left his W and lived with me for a while when I was separated from my H. He went back to his W and essentially I have the same feelings as any other OW.

[zarathustra]

Z -- don’t read into things. I have a friend or two who post on the OW board, believe it or not. I think I am more resentful that you are defending Butta, who I am convinced is here only to cause hurt and pain.

 

Sorry for the resentment. Part of it is that I am irritated by OW who come here and toss out notions -- that have most likely been turned over in BSs’ minds hundreds of times -- such as the fact that we hold some of the blame for the marriage relationship, the fact that our spouse might still be cheating if not caught, the fact that our spouses violated the sanctity of our marriages repeatedly. That’s not supportive. We know that stuff and are trying like h*ll to work through it.

I want you to know that while I'm an XOW, I am not trying to play games here. I want you to know that I'm writing to you to give you support and that I agree with what you are doing - giving your M a second chance. I looked at your posts and had a couple of observations and being someone working on my marriage for a second time, I thought that I'd share some of my own experiences. I am still open to sharing them with you and if you would like to PM me, you are more than welcome. If I have offended you, then I am sincerely sorry for it and I hope you accept it as heartfelt because it is.

 

I wrote to you specifically because I sensed a lot of hurt and anger, but it sounded like it was poorly directed and having worn the OW shoes, I wanted to give you my perspective. I hope that you did not see it as inappropriate.

 

As for my defense of buta, I made my observations based on how I read her tone of her post. In any case, how you two feel about each other is your own battle and you two can hash it out. So I'll butt out.

 

Z

[MsColorado]

I agree with Chump. This is a board for support as is the OW board. BSs come here to vent, cry, complain and seek helpful advice. Questions from an OW to a BS about why she'd take her cheating husband back or how she could ever trust him again or what was she doing wrong in her marriage are not helpful. They are little digs that people are trying to disguise as "just trying to understand". I think we should all remember that on this forum there are a lot of people that are deeply hurting and in real pain. I realize that OW are hurting as well but I don't think you can compare that pain to a woman who had no idea her husband was cheating and whose whole world came crashing down and she didn't really have a say in that.

[zarathustra]

I agree with Chump. This is a board for support as is the OW board. BSs come here to vent, cry, complain and seek helpful advice. Questions from an OW to a BS about why she'd take her cheating husband back or how she could ever trust him again or what was she doing wrong in her marriage are not helpful. They are little digs that people are trying to disguise as "just trying to understand". I think we should all remember that on this forum there are a lot of people that are deeply hurting and in real pain. I realize that OW are hurting as well but I don't think you can compare that pain to a woman who had no idea her husband was cheating and whose whole world came crashing down and she didn't really have a say in that.

MsC, I totally agree that we are in these support forums because of being in a whole lot of pain. What I won't do is fall into the trap of who hurts more.

 

There have been many BSs that have gone to the OW site seeking for support and it was given to them. Sometimes it was to ask "why". I think that maybe sometimes people ask questions so that they can understand the other side better. I'm not going to guess on Buta's intent on being on this forum, I can only speak to mine and I honestly have no negative intent and had the best intentions in my heart for being here. I know why my xMM and I split up. I have my regrets and I can only move forward and hope that many others here will do the same.

 

As for being in this forum, MsC, so long as I'm not spewing venom on this forum, I'll stick around. Just like you lurk around in the OW forum. Ciao, dahling.

[Walking away]

There is incalculable pain and anguish on both sides of the fence. Both with the BS and the OW.

 

I am living, breathing proof that we OW become part of the "walking wounded." And, yes, I did not know that my xMM was married when we started the fairy tale romance that led us down the path of emotional destruction.

 

The damage that has occurred to me emotionally and psychologically has been mind boggling. And I can only imagine how excruciating the pain is for the BS. For I, too, have been cheated on. And it is an ugly, ugly place to be.

 

A place I NEVER, EVER want to go to again.

 

I agree, there is incredible pain both here and on the OW forum. I wish we could somehow try to reach past the "roles" of BS and OW and just get to the point to where we realize and empathize that we are people searching for answers and support...

 

Pain is pain.....and to various degrees, we are ALL feeling it.

[zarathustra]

There is incalculable pain and anguish on both sides of the fence. Both with the BS and the OW.

 

I am living, breathing proof that we OW become part of the "walking wounded." And, yes, I did not know that my xMM was married when we started the fairy tale romance that led us down the path of emotional destruction.

 

The damage that has occurred to me emotionally and psychologically has been mind boggling. And I can only imagine how excruciating the pain is for the BS. For I, too, have been cheated on. And it is an ugly, ugly place to be.

 

A place I NEVER, EVER want to go to again.

 

I agree, there is incredible pain both here and on the OW forum. I wish we could somehow try to reach past the "roles" of BS and OW and just get to the point to where we realize and empathize that we are people searching for answers and support...

 

Pain is pain.....and to various degrees, we are ALL feeling it.

 

Wise words, as always WA... *muah*

 

I too wish hat we could get past the roles and really just support each other without the one another questioning our motives.

 

No, I've not started the drink yet.

[Chump64]

This is a terrible thing to say, and I’m sure that pot-stirrers like Buta will bash me, but I am human. I really do hope that the OW in my case feels a fraction of the pain that I am feeling. That would truly give me some small comfort. I suspect that she is. I know that my own husband is feeling a lot of pain right now, seeing the consequences of what he has done in the light of day.

 

Good to see you, Walking.

 

Normally, I don't question OW motives on this board unless they come out swinging (Buta) or come out defending people like her. I have gotten some good perspectives from OW. On another infidelity board where I read, I always read the "wayward" posts for perspective. I have a lot of respect for those people who are trying to do the right thing.

[Walking away]

If you will allow me to speak for "your" OW, I will.

 

If she is remotely human, she has felt guilt, remorse, agony, betrayal, rejection, and a whole other host of horrific, gut-wrenching feelings.

 

Feelings that keep her up at night. Feelings that make eating impossible. Feelings that she wishes she could erase completely from her head, heart, and soul.

 

Trust me Chump.....She is hurting.

 

And I completely understand why you would want her to feel pain, too. After all, she, too, is responsible for your pain. You are only human..

 

Nice to see you too, Chump.

[zarathustra]

I really do hope that the OW in my case feels a fraction of the pain that I am feeling. That would truly give me some small comfort.

having been the OW, I can tell you that yeah, there's a world of pain. I too work with my xMM and seeing him each day is like seeing a ghost of someone I loved that died. Its like mourning the living. Its not easy.

 

There are days when I feel so raw that the dumbest thing can spark of a fountain of tears. So, while I cannot speak for your xMM's OW, I can say that for me, I felt truly broken, like I've never been broken before.

[Mz. Pixie]

If you will allow me to speak for "your" OW, I will.

 

If she is remotely human, she has felt guilt, remorse, agony, betrayal, rejection, and a whole other host of horrific, gut-wrenching feelings.

 

Feelings that keep her up at night. Feelings that make eating impossible. Feelings that she wishes she could erase completely from her head, heart, and soul.

 

Trust me Chump.....She is hurting.

 

And I completely understand why you would want her to feel pain, too. After all, she, too, is responsible for your pain. You are only human..

 

Nice to see you too, Chump.

 

This is true, Chump because I certainly have experienced plenty of it. And it wasn't out of love and missing the OM for sure.

 

I didn't really see Buta as attacking you, but more her trying to give you a form of "tough" support. That being said, I haven't read all of her posts to you so I would be unqualified to say if she were following you around or not.

 

Being a former OW, I still can't believe that some OW would actually come to a MM's house and have sex with them! If this happened in your case how did he clean up the evidence?? The smells?? Did he wash the sheets every time??

[Chump64]

Let's just say that some of Buta's posts were removed by the admins. because they were pretty damn rude.

 

The sex they had in my house was in the basement living room, usually on a blanket on the floor. (My former house, thank gawd - they had not been to my new house, so I am told.) I am told that he could not bear to have sex with her in our bed.

 

They had sex all over her house, including her bed. I asked that "cleanup" question but he didn't know. He was always hurrying to get out of there after a noonhour quickie, usually getting dressed in the bathroom while she re-made the bed, etc. Good question.

 

They also had sex late at night when her husband was out of town. Her kids were asleep in the next rooms. (PUKE)

[Walking away]

I am so sorry.

 

Try not to think about that garbage Chump.

 

It will only hurt you more and fester. I wish I had some type of serum to make all of us forget the pain that we, each, individually must endure.

 

Hugs to you Chump....

WA

[Chump64]

I think what hurts more is that he told me thinks she's a "good mom."

 

Yeah, I am waaaay stuck in festering mode right now. It's not good.

[zarathustra]

Let's just say that some of Buta's posts were removed by the admins. because they were pretty damn rude.

 

The sex they had in my house was in the basement living room, usually on a blanket on the floor. (My former house, thank gawd - they had not been to my new house, so I am told.) I am told that he could not bear to have sex with her in our bed.

 

They had sex all over her house, including her bed. I asked that "cleanup" question but he didn't know. He was always hurrying to get out of there after a noonhour quickie, usually getting dressed in the bathroom while she re-made the bed, etc. Good question.

 

They also had sex late at night when her husband was out of town. Her kids were asleep in the next rooms. (PUKE)

How horrible!! You know what, just focus on your end goal and get to the place you need to be for yourself. You'll get there.

 

Hugs to you!

[zarathustra]

I think what hurts more is that he told me thinks she's a "good mom."

 

Yeah, I am waaaay stuck in festering mode right now. It's not good.

You know what, Chump, don't think about that stuff. don't think about if she's a good mom or not. Its not necessary for you to know if she is or isn't. Focus on your healing.

 

Remember that sometimes it is through adversities that we become much stronger. Damn those adversities!!

 

You know what? If you need to fester and it makes you feel better, then do it. If you find it destructive, then let's talk about something else.

 

If you need to cry, I'll cry with you!

[Chump64]

I think I'm in an "I need to stew awhile" mode. I think it will pass. I will either snap out of it or I will get out of the marriage.

 

This support from you OW is very moving.

 

Off to my son's 6th grade, end-of-year-party....

[Walking away]

I think what hurts more is that he told me thinks she's a "good mom."

 

Yeah, I am waaaay stuck in festering mode right now. It's not good.

 

When I was cheated on, I, too, ruminated over all of the experiences that "they" shared. It was horrific. Actually, there are no words to descrive the agony I felt. I literally thought I was going to die.

 

And I searched for more information....information that destroyed me. But, I think the human spirit has this sick need to find out things that will hurt us, but we are powerless to stop the obsession....

 

I do not know how I healed. I was a living, breathing zombie for months...

 

I am sorry to say, Chump, but that relationship ended.....I could not trust him and only with his presence out of my life was I able to heal....

 

For with the absence of him, the obsessive thoughts disappeared. They had no more power over me because HE didn't. He was gone.

 

BUT, that is MY situation. Yours is different. ANd I commend you for your tenacity. It is admirable. I hope and pray that you will find peace and freedom from the pain finally.

 

You deserve it.

[Chump64]

The "good mom" thing bothers me b/c it was one of the reasons he was attracted to her. (Why the eff does he care if she's a good mom?!) Another reasons was that she was a good lay. Those things are a huge part of defining the word "wife" and it's so hard that they went to a third party, you know?

 

I really am out of here now.

[zarathustra]

I think I'm in an "I need to stew awhile" mode. I think it will pass. I will either snap out of it or I will get out of the marriage.

 

This support from you OW is very moving.

 

Off to my son's 6th grade, end-of-year-party....

those who want to be venomous will be and there's no stopping that. Try not to let it get to you and focus on the important things in life like you and your children. Don't make any rash decisions and take things day by day.

 

The "good mom" thing bothers me b/c it was one of the reasons he was attracted to her. (Why the eff does he care if she's a good mom?!) Another reasons was that she was a good lay. Those things are a huge part of defining the word "wife" and it's so hard that they went to a third party, you know?

he shouldn't care if she's a good mom... that should not be something that attracts you to a person and its not an excuse to cheat for sure. Being a good mom and a good lay is not a huge part of defining a wife... at least I don't think so because I don't have kids... We may have to agree to disagree on that one. I think what defines a good wife (as I don't have kids), is that you are a good companion to your husband, that you value his happiness in what you do and that you focus on building a future with each other.

 

congratulations on your son's 6th grade graduation. What a milestone!!

[BUTAFLY]

ok ...had a lunch date with a girlfriend of mine - caught up now.

 

first of all I haven't been following you around- just responding to the questions you asked me. I am very blunt and can be a little harsh- I see your sensative to that so I will do my best to tone it down.

 

2. None of my post have been deleted.

 

3. I was never a cheater. in reponse to:

Again, it is so completely ironic that I (betrayed spouse) am spending time justifying my decision -- to give my marriage a one-time shot at recovery -- to you, the cheater.

4. I wasn't the cheater and I never asked you to justify your actions. Their have been many post in ow/om fourm asking about the bs, her rational and her thoughts on the situation. I just asked the question to you because you are a bs. sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way? I was just trying to get an understanding and you clearly explained it. I empathize w/ you and thankyou for giving me a glimps into that side.

 

5. This tread was originally about revenge I don't know how it became Chump Vs Butafly?

[Blind Illusion]

The "good mom" thing bothers me b/c it was one of the reasons he was attracted to her. (Why the eff does he care if she's a good mom?!)

That's kind of ironic because the MM said that to me, a few times. More to the point that he was saying how good it was that I was involved in this and that at their school. Know what though....I bet he & your husband would find other things that they DIDN'T like if we really were the mother of their children so try not to let that bother you too much. Men are always looking for what is wrong, or so it seems. [warning: men readers...simply disregard sexist but often true personal assessment of mine ]

 

Besides, your husband could not possibly think she was "mother of the year'" if she had sex with another man as her children slept nearby. Most "good" mothers often put their needs aside for the sake of their children. or, at least, postpone them.

[silktricks]

Buttafly:

Again, it is so completely ironic that I (betrayed spouse) am spending time justifying my decision -- to give my marriage a one-time shot at recovery -- to you, the cheater.

 

This in a nutshell is why I so seldom post on LS anymore. If you are an OW and decide to either keep up a relationship with a MM OR leave him, you have support up the a$$.

 

If you are actually MARRIED to the man who had an A (either EA or PA), and you decide to leave, you also get support, but my GAWD if he STOPS the relationship with the OW, makes changes and wants to be forgiven, and you decide to give the marriage one more try, you get nothing but sh*t. (Please note I am NOT saying ALL OW do this, but too many do - or at least did with me.)

 

My poor psyche had already taken a beating from the EA my husband had. I didn't need to get beat up here, too.