He doesn't "believe in marriage"

[Confused kiddo]

So this is my first post here and I'm hoping that someone out there has had a similar situation or some insight to offer because I am utterly beating my head against the wall trying to figure what to do. So, in short, my guy and I have been together 7 years - we started dating when I was 19, he was 22 and have been together ever since. We've lived together for the past 5 years. Generally speaking, things are great - we're a good fit together and love each other and, yes, I absolutely could see him as being in my life forever and having a family with him and all that stuff. And he says the same to me—we constantly talk about what our kids would be like, talk in terms of our future together (e.g., where we want to live,etc.) and I believe that he truly means what he says. He has never done or said anything to make me question that.

 

HOWEVER—and here is where it starts to break down—he does not believe in marriage. Now when I say that, I don't mean marriage with me. I mean marriage, period. He is extremely anti-establishment, always has been (it's one of the things that attracted me to him in the first place, he's so unique and doesn't care what other people think - which can be very empowering at times and I've learned a lot from him about being self confident, etc.) and marriage is something that he believes is unnecessary and "why should the government have to sanction our love?" He sees it as buying into a social norm and not creating our own meaning in life.

 

I, however, am old-fashioned I guess and though I have tried - because I do truly love him - to convince myself that I'm okay not being married, in truth I'm not. I laugh off comments from family/friends/etc about it, saying that we are basically already married, but it's just an act to hide how hurt, and frankly, embarrassed I am that after 7 years it's not even on the horizon. I admit that I've probably not been as assertive as I should be - our discussions about the issue usually end in me crying and while he is not unsympathic — he understands that it hurts me deeply - he seems unmovable. I've told him point-blank that absolutely not will I have children without first being married - a possibility he's mentioned more than once - and he says that once we get closer to that time (we're both in our mid 20s and not thinking kids until at least our 30s) he "might be more open to it." So, what do I do with that? I simply don't know how to reconcile the hurt this causes with the man I love and want to be with. Do I walk away on principle? Do I stay and fear that what happens when I want to have kids and he's still not willing to marry me? I'm so damn scared about what to do and have a tremendous amount of time, energy, and love invested in this relationship so the idea of ending it brings me to tears just thinking about it. I feel completely borderline about it —some days I'm strong and I think, I deserve it and shouldn't settle for less but most days I think, if I walk away because of this, it would be the biggest mistake of my life.

 

Discussions lead nowhere and I just don't know what to do. I should admit also that at some level, sometimes, I think about what if he actually did propose (I had this thought flash through me the last time he and I had the discussion, "what if he just stopped and proposed right now, what would I say?) The insane thing is that I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable saying yes if I'm really being honest with myself. So what on earth is going on in my head? I don't know what do think or do anymore. Perhaps part of it is that we started dating pretty young and he's really the only long-term boyfriend I've ever had and maybe I feel like I'm too young for marriage but it feels like the relationship should be at that place and I wonder why I'm not or why I am and it's utterly (like this post, I fear) confusing.

 

Please, anyone....thoughts?

[CaterpillarGirl]

I think that he is unlikely to change his mind. It sounds like this is as important an issue to him as it has become for you. Frankly, it would be unfair to expect him to compromise on something that seems to be an inherent part of his beliefs.

 

Secondly, I think that if this relationship is causing you worry, grief, or doubt - maybe it is not one in which you should remain. If you cannot accept the fact that you will never be married, maybe it is best that you break away for a while and seek a relationship that has the potential to end in marriage, children, etc.

 

There is nothing wrong with you for wanting to be married. If that is what you want, you should not settle for a relationship that will not lead to this, even if it is comfortable or nice or because it's your first or because you've been together so long. Eventually, (or maybe now) you will resent your partner for not providing for your needs and come to see your compromise as a burden.

[JaneyGirl]

It sounds like this is a complicated issue.

 

There's you figuring out what you really truly want, in a perfect world, if you didn't have to compromise.

 

And then once you know that, you also have to figure out what you can and can't compromise on and still be happy.

 

I also find myself wondering if you can somehow break it down, the issue of marriage and what it means to you and what it means to him.

 

Is it about knowing that he will be with you forever? Ok I guess we never know that for sure, but at least, knowing that he INTENDS to be with you forever and is commited to doing everything he can toward that end, even during hard times?

 

Is it about standing up in front of your friends and everyone you know, and showing them with the wedding - and showing the world with your wedding rings and your introducing yourselves as Mr. and Mrs. - that you are together? That no amount of flirting or distraction can even come CLOSE to your commitment to each other?

 

Is it about the practical things - if God forbid something should happen and you guys need each other to make medical decisions? If God forbid you break up and you want to protect each other financially by stating to the world that right now, your finances and your property are all merged (or maybe you want a prenup that separates certain things, but either way, you want some clarification on that matter) so that afterwards whatever happens is fair to both of you...

 

These are just some things that marriage means to me. And it expresses the fact that we are so close, that we are family, that we are closer to each other than anyone else. No we don't need the government for that, but I do like the married status because of the things I wrote above - the intention to be together always (even though I know things happen, I don't want to jinx myself by saying "oh we will be together forever" but we plan to ), the practical issues that come up, and the message to anyone else who wants either one of us that we are off the market.

 

To you it might mean other things.

 

Now, once you figure out what it means to you, take those specific things and find out if your bf would want to give you those things if - say - he could do so without marriage. And see if there is anything about marriage that bugs him that you actually DO want. Because that would be a problem, something deeper than just a piece of paper, something about what you both want from life.

 

If you do find that you both want all the things you feel marriage would give you, then it's probably not as big a problem than you think.

 

Maybe there is some way for him to give you those things without marriage. Maybe there is some way for you both to avoid whatever it is about marriage that he doesn't like, and then you can get married.

 

Let me give you an example: For me, it was never about the piece of paper, it was about things like what I've stated above. When we already felt like we were married, like a breakup at this point (God forbid) would be just like a divorce, then we figured we'd do something to express that to the world. We are both VERY anti establishment. In our case, certain financial issues were easier to address if we were married, so we thought "ok lets do it legally". If that weren't the case, we'd just skip it. We did it as a matter of fact, like a procedure, we didn't care for the whole establishment thing. Then we decided to have a party with friends to celebrat it. That's all. No weddingy stuff, no million guests we don't know, no establishment there to ruin the fun.

And if we hadn't made it legal, it'd be just the same. Friends of ours did not make it legal, because there were certain issues for them that made it technically more complicated. It didn't matter. They had a sort of non-tradtional wedding and as far as everyone is concerned they are married.

And yet another example - some friends that don't like the terms husband and wife, but they have a commonlaw marriage, have been together for years, and have made sure that legally they have all the rights that are important to them. They refer to each other as partners and they are perfectly happy and just as committed as anyone else.

 

Sorry to ramble on so much... I just feel your pain and I thought maybe this would give you some ideas about what questions to ask yourselves and each other, and would make you feel a little bit better.

 

And hey, the bottom line is there are no promises. All we can do is are best and figure things out as we go, married or not. I don't mean to depress everyone with this. I actually mean it as something liberating - it means nothing you do now is going to condemn you to a bleak future. You will figure things out as you go, and do whatever makes you happy.

[slinkysu]

I think caterpillar girl has put it very eloquently.

 

You need a time out. Take a 2 week vacation on your own or with a trusting girlfriend and get some space and think long and hard about what you want. Just as much as you believe in marriage, your boyfriend doesn't. Neither of you will compromise your beliefs on something so important to you so you have to choose which route is best for you.

 

Getting some space would be helpful though. You have been together since you were a teenager and the growth in you as an adult from that time till now must have ben huge. You are a different person with developing needs and wants, and if these differ to that of your boyfriend then that sometimes happens. You are at an age when you are discovering yourself and your place in the world. You are learning your ideals and beliefs and who you are. Marriage is clearly important to you. If you want it, you must be free to be able to accept it, and staying with someone who is adament never to marry will only leave you feeling trapped and confused.

 

Take some time. Take some space.

 

Good luck.

[Mirage222]

Awe Kiddo - YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Actually everything you mentioned about your love is just what I am going through with mine.

 

We get along too well and my life is great!!! Sounds like yours is too besides the differency of your wanting marriage to his not wanting marriage that is the ONLY issue in my relationship as well.

He does not think marriage is something that is needed to "prove" love for me. He wants to stay happy with me forever as girl/boy friend.

 

I have come to thoughts of 1) Do I really want to get married. 2) Would I be ok in the relationship knowing he does not want to get married. 3) will I regret it if I leave for whatever else may be out there. 4) Will I be happy always just being the girl friend.. So many of your thoughts are mine as well.

 

You have to be honest with yourself here. I am with you on your statement of what would I say if he proposed anyway?? I would love to say yes to my guy but in my head I will always have the thought of he is just marrying me because he thinks he may lose me if he does not.. AND, what girl wants that?

 

So, it is a give no give situation. I know your life is consumed by him and that is ok, but please make you number one in your life, you will get through this easier and wake up one day and just be happy that you do have such a great guy in your life.. that is where I am at now. He loves me without that binding commitment. Some days I am sad other days I think I CAN be the girlfriend forever.

It is embarrasing to me too when HIS family brings up marriage. Our communication levels shut down when this happens. But now after I have communicated my feelings to him on this I can now say to others when they ask when we are getting married that, we are not, he does not want it. Yes, it is embarrasing to say that to people .. even non friend people because they are thinking he does not love you enough but just saying it makes ME feel better and I can better justify the reality of it all.

 

I will not tell you to move on because I don't think you have an unhealthy relationship but just the opposite and regarless a relationship is a 2 way commitment .. this issue is just a HUGE difference and road block. If marriage is something SO SO SO important to you then you will know in your heart what to do next - your just confused and surely your head is about to explode :-) But if your are so/so about it then hang on and just be happy. You just never know... he may marry you if not today.. someday.

 

I just bought two books, "He just not that into you" which is an OK book to purchase. It hit below the belt alittle for me in one section of the book but the rest did not pertain to me. I also purchased "Why men like Bitches" the difference between the nice girl and the bitch .. Get this one if you can.. you will be inspired.

 

I know I am going on and on KIDDO, but I feel for you because I am in your shoes! My guy and I are A bit older then you and your guy but that does not mean we don't feel or go through the same stuff... at any age.

 

I am here to listen and give you insight ..

Decisions are hard. He IS a good guy. It could ALWAYS be worse then it is .. look on the bright side! Don't get sulky or an attitude with him over your over bearing feelings at times.. this gets you know where, he ends up feeling in "control" and pushes further away from the conversation...you end up feeling like crap. Tomorrow is always another day.

 

When the time of Kids come around there will be some huge decisions for you to make but until then just let it unfold as it is... you may be suprised by his actions! I hope you are :-)

 

Good luck you!

 

PS. After I had the "talk" and got the heart breaking reality of it all slapped in my face I did catch the next plane with my sister for a few days away - mini vacation.. I cleared my head and came back a stronger, new, person who remembered why I fell in love with my guy to begin with .. maybe you should too!

[Walk]

JaneyGirl. I just wanted to say that was a profound post. Deep and insightful. I wish I'd had this knowledge 10 years ago.

[ridingthebulls]

what is the difference ? its just a piece of paper. what do you actually think might change if you do get married? do you actually feel like you have to forcibly tie down a man? if he really loves you, he'll stay with you without marriage.( and i actually believe that the thought inside of a man of being firmly tied down to a woman with her death grip marriage on him can actually lead him to stray). too many men feel overwhelmed by just the thought of marriage. not only that, but he might have experienced divorce after divorce in his family and doesnt want to go the same route. most marriages fail anyways, so its not like a piece of paper is actually going to make it any better of a relationship. some people see no point in it. as for kurt and goldie, they've been married several times beforehand and it seems like they didnt want to jinx their relationship. i dont care if i was married or unmarried, i wouldnt want to feel like i chained a person to me- if i was you and he felt that way- id rather the relationship ended. sounds like this is not the relationship for you. you are too insecure and self-conscious for his type of lifestyle. a lot of people dont believe in marriage and some of the people that dont have some really long-lasting relationships with kids involved such as kurt russell and goldie hawn. as well as priscilla presley and her man who fathered her second child.

you knew how he felt 7 years ago and NOW all of a sudden dont like it?

[ridingthebulls]

with your comments about "embarrassment" etc and putting on a good front with family, it seems like your major focus is to please everyone else to make you LOOK good. shouldnt YOUR happiness come first? living according to what other people want you to do is NOT the way to a fulfilling life!

if there were no people on this earth (to make you feel ashamed or embarrassed), would you still be so driven to be married? i doubt it. it wouldnt matter so much.

your husband actually seems really wise, but unfortunately you sound too meek for his outlook on life. plus, you question whether youd even want to marry him at all.

time to take a good look on your relationship altogether, because it doesnt seem like it might be for you.

[ridingthebulls]

you are 26 and hes 29 and you still feel, even after such a long-term relationship, that you are "too young" for marriage? a lot of self-confidence issues you still have. i mean, maybe a psychologist would be able to help you to stop worrying about everyone else and focus on you two alone.

[Confused Kiddo]

Thank you so much to everyone who has responded. It's wonderful to get a number of viewpoints on this and I truly appreciate you all taking the time to read through my very long post and share your thoughts and experience. Mirage, it's such a relief to know I'm not alone in this experience...JaneyGirl, your wisdom is priceless, Caterpillar Girl and everyone, your honesty invaluable. Obviously this is a huge issue for me that will take a lot of thinking through on my part but I'm feeling better already getting everyone's feedback. Already bought the "Why Men Love Bitches" book yesterday and got some strength from that, will be planning a nice solo trip soon, and feel like this has helped get me a bit out of my den of self-pity and loathing. Thank you for everyone. I will keep you updated on what happens....it just helps so much to know I'm not alone...

[Guest]

with your comments about "embarrassment" etc and putting on a good front with family, it seems like your major focus is to please everyone else to make you LOOK good. shouldnt YOUR happiness come first? living according to what other people want you to do is NOT the way to a fulfilling life!

if there were no people on this earth (to make you feel ashamed or embarrassed), would you still be so driven to be married? i doubt it. it wouldnt matter so much.

your husband actually seems really wise, but unfortunately you sound too meek for his outlook on life. plus, you question whether youd even want to marry him at all.

time to take a good look on your relationship altogether, because it doesnt seem like it might be for you.

 

 

all i have to say is i think that is selfish for one to think that they should settle because of ones belief....she has much of a right to want to get married just as much as he has a right to not want to get married...its all about compatability and how much you can take. if you want to get married you have every right to want that and deserve that but if the person you want just doesnt want that then the only thing you can do is walk away (i know its easier said but done but its about you). to be with someone who doesnt want to get married is only making you feel more and more rejected and him pressured

 

i think she was stating that she wants her happiness...its not like shes saying she sees that and that makes her want it like its candy in the candy store..its obvious its something she's wanted but when you see others around you it just makes you think...like any other human...and she's entitled to that..it probably makes her think..why isnt she good enough for a commitment...its like kids getting picked for a team..if your the best player and your not getting picked your gonna question it no matter what...you can be the best player out there with the highest self esteem..but if after 7 years of trying to be apart of a team your not choosen you will start to question yourself...

 

heck if we were the last people on earth heck questioning would we be drive...REALITY IS....we are on earth with others so we are not going to be pointing out anything about whose wise and whose meek..i wouldnt be surprised if the OP bf snuck on the board and made the comment

[penkitten]

i want you to stop listening to other people around you that push you into thinking things have to be a certain way for just a minute, while i ask you some questions, please.

 

1. do you love this man, with all your heart and all that you have? would you be happy being with him, if you had nothing else but him and a pop tent in the middle of nowhere? would you lay down your own life, just to save his?

 

2. does he feel the same way in return?

 

3. do you already feel married in your heart? never foresake each other for another? share each day together? growing older together? making the years last?

 

4. question why you want the ceremony so badly. would it make you feel more loved or is it because you would like to show the entire world just how strongly and dedicated you are to each other?

 

5. now question why he doesnt want the ceremony. would it really make things so different? does he truely feel that society should not judge your relationship? does he truley believe that the state should not judge or have reins on you? or is he afraid that if you actually married that it would turn into a horror story (like we hear so often) and that things would change. (men are so afraid of divorce now days)

 

6. would you walk away from him if he refused the ceremony?

 

7. would he walk away from you if you demanded a ceremony?

 

8. is it really about the ceremony or the marriage certificate?

 

9. is there any possible way, to compromise? to take what you want, the ceremony and what he wants, by not letting the government sanction you, and blend them together? could it be possible to plan something very small, in your own back yard, like a cookout, and have the two of you get up and just say some vows, with some family and friends there?

 

perhaps they dont have to be old fashioned wedding vows, but something you each write, saying how glad you are to have each other to share your lives together. how you will be there thru it all, and just promise love to each other.

 

now that may not be the exact fairy tale wedding, but sweetie, its real damn close, and it would feel real damn good. it would be your ceremony that you are longing for, and it would not be santuced by the government, because there will be no one there marrying you. (its common law marriage with a party ) and its honest and true.

 

adam and eve never married. there was no preacher, there were no guests. no cake and no fig dress. however, they were together thru it all.

[Outcast]

she has much of a right to want to get married just as much as he has a right to not want to get married.

 

That's all well and fine, but people should make decisions responsibly, with thought, rather than just going on 'I want' or 'I don't want'. Others are quite right to ask WHY she feels the need to marry and I agree that it seems to be an issue of public image - she's 'embarrassed' about not being married. Frankly, marrying because you're embarrassed by not being married is not even close to being a good reason. So before she throws someone away, she needs to challenge her own beliefs and her reasons for them. We've been given brains so that we can base our actions on reason rather than merely on desire.

[Love Hurts]

He is Anti - Christ.

 

 

Run...................... you have a looser.

[radiation7740]

If embarassment is a reason for getting married then just goes to show that you don't really love your fiancee or boyfriend. If I were in your boyfriend's shoes and found out that the only reason you wanted to get married because you were embarassed that you haven't then I would drop you immediately.

[penkitten]

i dont think she is embarrassed enough to not want him.

i think she wants and needs to feel the same validation that other people experience being a bride, come on its a little special right?

 

thats why i suggested they compromise and have some sort of small ceremony with a few promises that they can make to each other, without him having to conform to an actual marriage that he is so dead set against.

 

 

 

honestly, from what i read, she really seems to love him and just wants her minute in the sunshine. that is certainly acceptable.

[Mary3]

i dont think she is embarrassed enough to not want him.

i think she wants and needs to feel the same validation that other people experience being a bride, come on its a little special right?

 

thats why i suggested they compromise and have some sort of small ceremony with a few promises that they can make to each other, without him having to conform to an actual marriage that he is so dead set against.

 

 

 

honestly, from what i read, she really seems to love him and just wants her minute in the sunshine. that is certainly acceptable.

 

If a real marraige with a legal document causes your boyfriend agnst because he is against the government , then why not the small backyard ceremony like the other poster suggested ? I was thinking that way too. Something small and special. Not legal or binding . Just a special committment ceremony for you and him .

[obsession]

I think it's just an excuse. I am not saying all men are against commitment, but what does he expect?

 

If you are not legally married, you won't have the protection should you become ill and need someone close to you to make the medical decisions, among other things.

 

I can see if he's against large weddings/reception, so hold a small one to show your commitment to one another. Getting a marriage license from the local city hall doesn't take much time.

 

PERSONALLY, for me, I think it's an excuse and a copout. Marriage is important to me, and this will be dealbreaker. 5 years is a long time, but you can even invest more time into relationship only to find yourself unhappy over this issue.

 

And for having kids/starting a family out of wedlock, what kind of message is that to your kids?

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

i dont think she is embarrassed enough to not want him.

i think she wants and needs to feel the same validation that other people experience being a bride, come on its a little special right?

 

thats why i suggested they compromise and have some sort of small ceremony with a few promises that they can make to each other, without him having to conform to an actual marriage that he is so dead set against.

 

 

 

honestly, from what i read, she really seems to love him and just wants her minute in the sunshine. that is certainly acceptable.

 

 

 

i applaud you..very well said

[Guest]

That's all well and fine, but people should make decisions responsibly, with thought, rather than just going on 'I want' or 'I don't want'. Others are quite right to ask WHY she feels the need to marry and I agree that it seems to be an issue of public image - she's 'embarrassed' about not being married. Frankly, marrying because you're embarrassed by not being married is not even close to being a good reason. So before she throws someone away, she needs to challenge her own beliefs and her reasons for them. We've been given brains so that we can base our actions on reason rather than merely on desire.

 

it is obvious that theres a reason why she wants it and a reason why he doesnt. its obvious that there was thought which is why they've arrived at their conclusion. she's been with this man for 7 years and is crying out for a commitment. they question isnt the size of the wedding but whether or not a marraige will every occurr. being embarrassed is just apart rejection. im not going to speak for her but im sure after 7 years the reasons are the obvious.

 

We've been given brains so that we can base our actions on reason rather than merely on desire.

 

please elaborate. im a bit confused. people desire owning their own home but does it make it wrong? desire and reason come hand in hand. reason is to justify an action, it is purpose. there is a purpose for her want to get married. if she is a religous person then maybe her want for her action there are plenty of scriptures that talk about marriage.

[Guest]

Hi to the original poster. I could have written your first post myself - as it is exactly the way I feel. I am with my boyfriend for just over 3.5 years.

 

 

I was wondering, did you come to a decision?

[bananas]

This kinda sounds like my girl and I.... except she feels the same as I do about marriage, which is that it is nothing but bs nowadays. We both love each other dearly and isn't that all that matters? If you want the marriage for all the social/financial benefits then I question how much you really love this man. You can still have a life together and share finances, you just won't be able to rape him for alimony if you split up All kidding aside, you can work around it if you really want to. If you really have your heart set on it, talk to him but don't try and manipulate him by being a "bitch" like someone suggested, that is foolhardy at best and could backfire on you, imo. Go out, have a good time and tell him how you feel, but also explain that you understand how he feels as well. You could have a marriage that isn't "on the books" and unconventional like someone suggested so he doesn't feel like he's selling himself out or however he feels about it.

[Confused Kiddo]

I'm still trying to figure things out. He has agreed to see a couple's counselor with me because maybe a third perspective will help. At the same time, I don't know. This may be a dealbreaker. He's away on business for the next three weeks, some good alone time for me to think and I feel at some level I'm trying to prepare myself for it ending perhaps. To be strong enough. I don't know. This may be it. Part of me feels like that's insane because so much of our relationship is so good but I feel like this is the sort of thing that comes back to bite you in the ass later on if you try to sweep it under the rug. But I don't know. I'm still very very lost...Wish I had a better answer

 

Hi to the original poster. I could have written your first post myself - as it is exactly the way I feel. I am with my boyfriend for just over 3.5 years.

 

 

I was wondering, did you come to a decision?

[Guest]

I've got a friend who is in the same position, although for her it was 10 years and no ring. She already had the financial commitment - they had a house, shared savings etc - and if she really wanted to "rape" him for alimony (prehaps one of the more offensive things I've seen posted here) she could do so anyway, because down here you're entitled to do so after 10 years in a de facto relationship. Where she drew the line was kids - they both wanted them, but only he wanted them to be born out of wedlock. For her, that just wasn't right. Social mores are liberal now, but what if they change in the future? What could she tell the kids about why daddy didn't want to marry mommy?

 

For a while, it looked like they were going to call it quits over the issue, which would have been very painful. But instead, they compromised and had a all-out commitment ceremony, but one officiated over by a wiccan friend, and with no government involvement at all. Full exchange of vows, in front of their entire social circle. They call it and regard it as a marriage, and where the rings. An alterna marriage, maybe, but with all the symbolism and meaning, and a fairly good compromise on both parts.

 

Of course, the law here already treats them as spouses, with the right to make decisions for the other in emergencies etc. That also makes a big difference.

[CaterpillarGirl]

Good luck. Be honest about your feelings when you see the counselor. Come to some sort of agreement that is right for both of you. I think you are wise to prepare yourself to walk - be strong for yourself and do what you need to when the time comes. I hope that everything will work out with you two. Regardless, you are a smart and brave woman for addressing this problem, rather than ignoring it!