The stripper question

[catgirl1927]

Well, in truth, a man is a cheater or he's not. I really believe that, even though it's an absolute and a generalization. Maybe I should say, a man values a relationship enough not to cheat or he doesn't. And if he doesn't, whether he's at a strip club, at the grocery store or anywhere, if he won't, he won't.

 

I'm glad you understand my concern with lapdancing, and that I'm not just blowing it out of proportion, it really is what I said it was.

 

I don't think my BF will cheat. I think if he did get a lapdance, it would just be a beautiful, perfect woman acting like she would be available to him, but when she offers, he'll say no. I may be a moron, but I really think that he will.

 

I just don't want him to see me naked for like a week afterwards. So he'll be less likely to compare. Either that or I really need a black light in the shower.

[Alexandra]

Absolutely OT -or is it?- might I ask how old you are ronnie? NOT an attack, NOT saying you're immature, NOT.... insert any other potential negative conotation. Just curious.

 

(I'm getting all into Disclaimers these days)

[ronnieromance]

30. And apparantly writing 3-0 os not enough to appease the little man in my computer counting how many characters my message is.

 

30. But 30 is the new 20, so...

 

 

-R-

[tinktronik]

I have a question about the song "I'm in love with a stripper" by T Pain.

 

Do you think it's a joke? kind of a Weird Al parody song? or serious?

 

I've been trying to figure it out.

 

Cause the thing is, and this is sad, this does happen to men. They believe the fantasy is real and start hanging out with their favorite stripper. They call her on the phone and they think she is a "girlfriend" but really the strippers just want the men to take them shopping. And order more dances each time they come into the club. I mean, I know that strippers have real relationships and not all do this thing where they exploit the sad, pathetic men who mistake fantasy for reality. But it happens quite a bit.

Lots of time this does happen, the men get involved in believing that this girl is the one , or hes in love .Lots of girls do give out their phone numbers . But the whole idea of being a stripper is to create the illusion of intamacy , and keep it .Thats how you get regulars .Its just their job.

[alphamale]

But the whole idea of being a stripper is to create the illusion of intamacy , and keep it .Thats how you get regulars .Its just their job.

Exactly TINK...for a stripper its much easier (and less risky) to deal with a "regular" customer whom she knows vs. some possible wierdo schmuck who just walked in off the street.

[tinktronik]

Exactly TINK...for a stripper its much easier (and less risky) to deal with a "regular" customer whom she knows vs. some possible wierdo schmuck who just walked in off the street.

Absolutly , a regular knows that if he tries to stiff you with money , you won't talk to him anymore .And you know he won't be grabby or cause problems .A regular knows you will always be happy to see him , never complain, make time for him as long as no other regulars are there , if another regular is there the highest dollar wins ,this is all spelled out ,the rules are clear,I think this is a big part of why men frequent these places .They know what to expect.

[catgirl1927]

Absolutly , a regular knows that if he tries to stiff you with money , you won't talk to him anymore .And you know he won't be grabby or cause problems .A regular knows you will always be happy to see him , never complain, make time for him as long as no other regulars are there , if another regular is there the highest dollar wins ,this is all spelled out ,the rules are clear,I think this is a big part of why men frequent these places .They know what to expect.

 

No risk, no rejection.

[grateful]

Absolutly , a regular knows that if he tries to stiff you with money , you won't talk to him anymore .And you know he won't be grabby or cause problems .A regular knows you will always be happy to see him , never complain, make time for him as long as no other regulars are there , if another regular is there the highest dollar wins ,this is all spelled out ,the rules are clear,I think this is a big part of why men frequent these places .They know what to expect.

 

Hmmmm... not entirely sure I agree with that last part. Just because quite a few start believing their favorite stripper is their girlfriend, or that they are in love (as you confirmed above). If they were all totally rational, i.e. she is nice to me because I'm paying her, but that's all I want - a totally hot stripper to be nice to me even if she only really likes the fact that I pay her - then maybe I'd say they know what to and are getting what they expect. But the fact that they start calling them and talking to them and taking them out shopping means they have additional expectations that aren't reasonable (with the exception of Texas - dayum!).

 

So is the song parody or what? Why would some tough hip hop guy want to admit he is one of these suckers who believes the illusion is more than just the illusion of intimacy?

 

Another thought - the need being met by strippers is similar to the reasons married people cheat, i.e. to have the fun of the attraction/illusion/honeymoon phase etc without having to think about bills, child care duties, in laws, arguing etc.

[tinktronik]

Hmmmm... not entirely sure I agree with that last part. Just because quite a few start believing their favorite stripper is their girlfriend, or that they are in love (as you confirmed above). If they were all totally rational, i.e. she is nice to me because I'm paying her, but that's all I want - a totally hot stripper to be nice to me even if she only really likes the fact that I pay her - then maybe I'd say they know what to and are getting what they expect. But the fact that they start calling them and talking to them and taking them out shopping means they have additional expectations that aren't reasonable (with the exception of Texas - dayum!).

 

I didn't say all were completely rational , many times the young guys are the ones that get into the stripper /girlfriend confusion trap . Its because they don't know the rules yet . They don't want to believe that its all about money .Thats not the dancers problem really , its the customers .Obviously she's made it clear its about money if the guy is taking her shopping . Many times your regulars will have your number , simply so he can call you tell you he will be at the club with money , so you go to work basically to pick up the money.

 

.............................

[ronnieromance]

The song isn't a parody, Grateful. I work down the hall from the management company T Pain is with.

 

 

-T-

[grateful]

The song isn't a parody, Grateful. I work down the hall from the management company T Pain is with.

 

 

-T-

 

 

Wow cool! Can you tell me more about it? I mean is it truly an expression of vulnerability? Is it referencing this confusion Tink is telling me about?

 

Is is that self deprecating? Is it a lament of the male inability to distinguish true affection from purchased intimacy?

 

Cause seriously some kind of Weird Al type parody I could understand... but actually admitting you've confused purchased intimacy and love seems too too pathetic.

 

Oh, and by the way I'm totally enamored of the song - - the music is really evocative, it's the lyrics that kill me.

[catgirl1927]

I have to say, I'm fascinated by the idea that a guy wouldn't want to have dirty sex with a woman because he isn't comfortable objectifying her. Seriously. Never thought about it that way. Hmmm.

[ronnieromance]

No. It's a f***ing pop song. LOL, It is what it is.

 

 

-R-

[alphamale]

,this is all spelled out ,the rules are clear,I think this is a big part of why men frequent these places .They know what to expect.

and also many of the men who go to strip clubs get the chance to reject beautiful women. if a gorgeous stripper comes and asks him if he wants a lap dance he can say "No". Some men feel as if they are in the power position and that the tables are turned. Of course, it is all just a illusion to part them from their hard-earned $$$ so the strippers still win in the end.

[grateful]

I have to say, I'm fascinated by the idea that a guy wouldn't want to have dirty sex with a woman because he isn't comfortable objectifying her. Seriously. Never thought about it that way. Hmmm.

 

Haven't you seen the gangster movies (and maybe it happened on the Sopranos too) where they say they purchase oral sex rather than getting it from their wives because "she kisses my children with that mouth?"

[grateful]

No. It's a f***ing pop song. LOL, It is what it is.

 

 

-R-

 

 

It is never just a pop song.

 

What we listen to on the radio has everything to do with society's currently acceptable values. I have just found it hard to believe that hip hop culture would admit to such pathetic vulnerability. I'm more used to hearing about how women are to be used and abused, then quickly disgarded or passed on to a peer. It is strange to suddenly hear about how a woman, and one who is playing him at that, could possibly have the upper hand, since usually they are nothing more than cum receptacles, in hip hop that is.

[catgirl1927]

Haven't you seen the gangster movies (and maybe it happened on the Sopranos too) where they say they purchase oral sex rather than getting it from their wives because "she kisses my children with that mouth?"

 

Yes, I have. Men are strange. Purchasing oral sex is cheating though. That point has been conceded to me.

[a4a]

I have to say, I'm fascinated by the idea that a guy wouldn't want to have dirty sex with a woman because he isn't comfortable objectifying her. Seriously. Never thought about it that way. Hmmm.

 

 

They do exist. I am indeed married to one of those men. For the longest time he wasn't initiating sex with me because he thought in a way it was disrespectful to do so without me hinting to it and did not want me to think that is the only reason he is with me. There is quite a bit more to the story but I won't bore you.

[catgirl1927]

They do exist. I am indeed married to one of those men. For the longest time he wasn't initiating sex with me because he thought in a way it was disrespectful to do so without me hinting to it and did not want me to think that is the only reason he is with me. There is quite a bit more to the story but I won't bore you.

 

How did you get him over that?

[ronnieromance]

Hip hop admits to vulnerability all the time. Radio rap isn't real hip hop. It's pop music made to be mostly catchy yet disposable. There are, of course exceptions, but in the case of pop music there is rarely profundidty at work. While I'll agree that commercial outlets are often indicators of what is going on, it's almost always a case of art imitating life. In any event, T Pain is an R&B artist with a hip-hop aesthetic.

 

If you want to see the opposite at work, art influincing what goes on, then you need to look away from MTV and dig deeper than the radio.

 

It sounds like your ideas about hip hop come from tv. Not to thread jack, but in my opinion hip hop is exactly where metal was in the late 80s. Once it became pop it ate itself. Legitimate bands that didn't wear makeup and were actually good musicains were forced to fend for themselves without the label dollars that once backed them. The entire genre collapsed and the bands that are still around today, with a smaller fan-base and lees press, are the very ones who were true to their art. Anthrax is still around. Exodus, Iron Maiden. What happened to Warrant and Enuff Z Nuff? Kingdom Come?

 

In hip hop lousy MCs are rhyming about the same-old-rehashed bulls***, in sub-par flows with small vocabularies. The guys that actually read books are, by and large stuck playing free shows and producing tracks in their bedrooms...But, I digress. That's another discussion.

 

And don't even get me started on the production. It's like they don't want you to have to think to hard about the friggin' beat either.

 

 

 

-R-

[ronnieromance]

They do exist. I am indeed married to one of those men. For the longest time he wasn't initiating sex with me because he thought in a way it was disrespectful to do so without me hinting to it and did not want me to think that is the only reason he is with me. There is quite a bit more to the story but I won't bore you.

 

I wasn't saying not having/initiating sex...But I could see that too, I suppose.

 

I was thinking more of the bend-you-over-the-whatever-is-around-to-bend-you-over-gag-ball-choking & spit type. <3<3:love:

 

 

 

-R-

[a4a]

How did you get him over that?

 

It took about 3 months of subtle and to the point discussion here and there. He has 3 sisters and his mother died at a very young age so he was taught to respect women from a very early age. His father is also or was also a gentlemen.

 

He still does not toss me up against the wall but he is much more willing to start a bit of foreplay.

 

I will say he is an awesome person. He has his bad points but he is probably the dream man for many. He just needs a little honing

 

He is getting there.

[Alexandra]

Geez someone remind me never to work again, look what happened meanwhile, ya'll had a blast talking music AND sex in the same thread. *Sobs*

[grateful]

edited - unneccessary dissertation on underground vs. commercial music - end edit.

 

In hip hop lousy MCs are rhyming about the same-old-rehashed bulls***, in sub-par flows with small vocabularies.

 

 

-R-

 

yes you are right I should have written "popular hip hop" or "popular r&b with a hip hop aesthetic." excuse my lapse of specificity. in commercial radio hip hop, it is rare to find expressions of male vulnerability - if it's not ho's, it's bling bling or grey goose, i.e. the same old rehashed bulls*** to which you referred. rarely do you hear, on the radio, about misplaced thug "love," blinded by illusion. that is why it's interesting to me. it is unique.

 

back on topic: maybe that just shows us how powerful the stripper really is. she gets cheezy pop commercial (enough qualifiers for ya ronnie romance?) hip hop flavored r&b artists to discuss taboo subjects like vulnerability. now that's power.

[catgirl1927]

You know there's something I didn't understand before, everyone kept asking if my boyfriend was a jerk. I couldn't figure out why anyone would think that or what I had said that would give you that idea. But then I thought,

 

Do you think that women get their self esteem and self image from men?

 

It makes sense that people would think that, because you seem to think that if he tells me I'm pretty I should just... believe it.

 

After 20 years of having my father tell me I'm stupid, forever of going to clubs turning down creeps and having them call me a "cow" or "dumb ugly bitch" two seconds after they were telling me how hot I was, I've learned that people only say what they need to say to illicit the response they want.

 

It's not always bad... my friends always tell me how beautiful or funny I am, because they love me and want me to feel good. My boyfriend is the same way.

 

But you have to form your OWN opinion of yourself and of situations, because people are only going to tell you what they need to tell you to get you to do what they want you to do. I mean seriously, who forms an honest, sincere opinion of themselves based on what someone else says about them?