The stripper question

[ronnieromance]

You know, I've always liked that name. Alexandra. It has this serpantine air to it that is mysterious and powerful and sexy...Anyway.

 

Indeed you are the clever one. And I mean that. I'm going on my experiences and what I've observed; That being, people who overly idealize their situations, love and relationships in general. People getting married in their early 20s and divorced by their mid 20s. Marriage for money, affairs from both parties, etc. I just think that people get into serious things for what are, a lot of times, the wrong reasons.

 

I found that things got a lot easier when expectation was forgottenand, I'll admit I'm jaded as hell. But I'm not bitter. I just don't expect much of people. it's nice to be surprised though.

 

Let me clear something up; I don't want to come off as being a know it all, because I'll be the first to admit I don't. But in saying that one can't be everything, I base that opinion on expectation and it ultimately leading to disappointment.

 

I'm a firm believer in that concept and I feel that trying to be more than you are to keep someone is a projection of expectation, rather than an internalization of it. If you take expectation out of the equation, there's a lot less to be disappointed about, and lot more time to enjoy your SO.

 

Perhaps the sticking point is the idea of everything. I have friends and parents of friends who have been together for longer than I've been alive. It's of course naive to expect smooth sailing in a LTR, but when there are seperations and affairs etc., that belies issues that, while ultimately worked out, to me do not spell growing an ideal realtionship. Or to use the term you dislike...If the partnership were so perfect in the first place I think issues that large wouldn't be issues.

 

But ya, I'm not an ultra-dogmatic something. My truths are flexible, even if you don't think so. I just see it as a truth right now because I haven't seen otherwise, save for movies. Hopefully I'll see otherwise.

 

 

 

 

-R-

[Craig]

That is change: The only guarantee. You may be able to be such to someone for a length of time, perhaps a very long time. But, people grow, and in doing so they change, often growing apart.

IMHO, a couple can choose to be stagnant, grow together, grow in different directions, grow at different paces, etc.

 

What it all comes down to for me is acceptance of change in my partner and commitment to the relationship. Over the years that which brought us together may have completely disappeared but if there is an acceptance of the change that occurs in a relationship and a commitment to the relationship, "new" "things" can enhance the relationship if both are willing.

[Alexandra]

Thanks for the compliments. And I appreciate your more permitting post and the fact that you took the time to respond.

 

However.... (and in very short as this is meaty and I'm tired.)

 

From your last post it sounds like what you meant to say was "We should not believe in the Hollywood idea of love, the idea containing the notion that one can be everything to someone else, among other things." Had you said that, I would not have taken issue with it. Or not as much. Yet it's not what you said, you gave just a symptom of a larger phenomenon you disagree with and proclaimed it universal. A different story, surely you can tell.

 

I'm going on my experiences and what I've observed; That being, people who overly idealize their situations, love and relationships in general. People getting married in their early 20s and divorced by their mid 20s. Marriage for money, affairs from both parties, etc. I just think that people get into serious things for what are, a lot of times, the wrong reasons.

 

I agree with that wholeheartedly. IF what you said was that there's not enough thought, preparation and maturity going into LTRs. And IF it meant that you disappove of what I called above the Hollywood ideal of love. I do too. I was not disputing that. (Read my boringly many posts on the importance of communication, adulthood and boundaries for proof.) From a rethorics point of view it was pretty well written too as you made the mention it's your experience hence not indisputable.

 

 

But in saying that one can't be everything, I base that opinion on expectation and it ultimately leading to disappointment.

 

Now that one I have a problem with. (And possibly where the crux of the issue is.) You don't say "exceeding expectations" or "unrealistic expectations", there's no quantifier. It's entirely possible that some people would have rational expectations and those will be met. Generally rational, mature people entering a relationship will have less of a tainted pink version of romance hence they won't have absurd hopes of their partners. It's also possible that some will have unrealistic expectations that will be met. And the reverse. Any combination is valid. This is people we're speaking of. Not Physics.

 

I'm a firm believer in that concept and I feel that trying to be more than you are to keep someone is a projection of expectation, rather than an internalization of it.

 

Perfectly true however it's not entirely connected to what we've been speaking of so far. Does trying to project a different persona take an emotional toll on someone? Sure. Is it necessary for everyone? No. Does it take a huge toll on everyone? Not even that, some people do it with ease in any situation. Again, I agree with the general point but please think of the exceptions and when you find enough wonder if you really dug a golden rule out.

 

Perhaps the sticking point is the idea of everything.

 

Indeed. Too bad you didn't explore that one more. It may point you to where your notion of "everything" is not mine and none of ours is like anyone else's. Hence at least in theory, some people could fill all spots. My point all along.

 

Last but not least we're alike in many ways if you factor in how we both think the idea of Hollywood perfect romance ought to be outlawed but we're different in many other fundamental ways starting with how I am positive there is no "truth" and continuing with how I am not willing to give up my expectations or my stride to be and expect "everything".

[catgirl1927]

I'm so glad this thread turned into a discussion instead of just a pissing contest!

 

I think that just giving up and having low expectations for yourself and others is just so... sad. I have been hurt a LOT. Seriously. A lot. But I still believe in love, I still believe in fidelity. And at no point am I willing to throw in the towel and put up with crap I don't think I deserve. If I'm not enough for someone, if he needs to go elsewhere for sexual fulfillment, then I hope the door doesn't bruise his ass on his way out. There are too many men and life is too short to put up with that.

 

I'm sure the response will be that I'm setting unrealistic expectations and I'll never find someone if I'm so particular about physical fidelity. But the thing is, I'm not alone. I'm with someone who, for all his faults (he can be a real horse's ass, but hey, so can I) really does love me and while he was hurt at the idea that I thought I couldn't trust him at a strip club (which was never the case) had no problem "giving it up." I'm well worth so small a sacrifice, especially for someone who really understood what he was giving up.

 

I always have and always will compare myself to other people. I don't think it's unhealthy. I also don't think it's unhealthy to strive for perfection.

[alphamale]

I'm so glad this thread turned into a discussion instead of just a pissing contest!

think again CATGURL.....Alpha's back

[catgirl1927]

think again CATGURL.....Alpha's back

 

Too late! I've seen the real you. You're very sweet. Fight it all you like, I know the truth.

 

To answer your question, TA, no, my boyfriend doesn't ever say mean things to me to make me feel bad about the way that I look. If he did, I wouldn't be with him.

 

Besides, other people will always say nice things to you. You have to look at yourself realistically and see your faults. Some man telling me I'm perfect over and over wouldn't make me think I was. I'm a little stubborn for that, my mind isn't that malleble. And people who love you seem to have very generous standards, much looser than mine.

[a4a]

I think that just giving up and having low expectations for yourself and others is just so... sad. I have been hurt a LOT. Seriously. A lot. But I still believe in love, I still believe in fidelity. And at no point am I willing to throw in the towel and put up with crap I don't think I deserve. If I'm not enough for someone, if he needs to go elsewhere for sexual fulfillment, then I hope the door doesn't bruise his ass on his way out. There are too many men and life is too short to put up with that.

 

.

 

Bravo!

 

I truly think the best way to set up a good relationship is to get your rules/boundaries/ limitations out in the open at the very start.

[alphamale]

I am a perfectionist. In truth, I want my BF to not really want to go see a stripper because I am enough.

but this is rediculous...what if your BF said he does not want you to ever look at or talk to another man because he "should be enough".

[catgirl1927]

but this is rediculous...what if your BF said he does not want you to ever look at or talk to another man because he "should be enough".

 

Talking to someone and having someone take off all their clothes and rub all over your lap and suck your dick are two very different things, dear.

[alphamale]

Talking to someone and having someone take off all their clothes and rub all over your lap and suck your dick are two very different things, dear.

I don't think so CG1927....women can cheat emotionally and with just using their mind. I call it female emotional masturbation, or FEM. Men need more physical/visual stimulus.

[catgirl1927]

I don't think so CG1927....women can cheat emotionally and with just using their mind. I call it female emotional masturbation, or FEM. Men need more physical/visual stimulus.

 

:lmao: They use the power of their minds, huh? I guess men aren't shackled with mind power...

[a4a]

I don't think so CG1927....women can cheat emotionally and with just using their mind. I call it female emotional masturbation, or FEM. Men need more physical/visual stimulus.

 

I don't think this is really about a male vs female cheating subject.

 

I think this is more about individual expectations of your SO.

 

Then it boils down to a question of others passing judgement that you should not have any expectations of your spouse, and if you do it is your own insecurity causing you to have expectations.

 

I suppose some may see it as a control issue spawned by insecurity. IMHO I find people who are willing to lower their expectations and willing to bow to a partner more insecure because they are afraid of losing them if they do not.

 

There is not a damn thing wrong with having your own ideal mate regardless if you are female or male. Your ideals will not match every other persons on the face of the earth.

 

I do have to laugh tho..... how many men would just freak if they caught their SO holding hands, sitting on the lap of, or giving a light kiss to another man....... hell even a light EA with another man.

[alphamale]

There is not a damn thing wrong with having your own ideal mate regardless if you are female or male.

Look sister....there is no such thing as an "ideal" mate. Get that concept out of your head.

[catgirl1927]

Look sister....there is no such thing as an "ideal" mate. Get that concept out of your head.

 

I disagree, Mr. Negativepants.

[a4a]

Look sister....there is no such thing as an "ideal" mate. Get that concept out of your head.

 

Sure there is....... is not your (partial) Ideal mate Pam Anderson?

[alphamale]

....... is not your (partial) Ideal mate Pam Anderson?

are you insane A4A? I'd love to bang her a few times but to actually have a relationship with her? No f***ing way man!

[catgirl1927]

I guess it depends on your definition of ideal, and whether or not it's a fairy tale ideal or a realistic ideal.

 

For men, the ideal is a supermodel/rocketscientist who is into threesomes (but only with 2 girls), doesn't care who else you sleep with but is completely faithful herself, never disagrees with you on anything, cooks and cleans in a thong and platform heels and jumps out of bed in the morning looking perfect.

 

For women the ideal is a man who is smart, funny, gorgeous but doesn't know it, is sensitive and caring all the time, never selfish, never rude, likes your friends, doesn't want to have sex with other women and always hangs up his wet towel. (I may be personalizing a bit on that last one)

 

Realistically, an ideal is someone who shares your ideas about ambition, religion, fidelity, and family. Someone who makes you laugh and who gets your jokes, someone who tolerates your friends and has tolerable friends themselves. Someone that you respect and love who respects and loves you, and someone who does their level best to be caring and less than completely selfish. And hangs up the damn towel.

[a4a]

are you insane A4A? I'd love to bang her a few times but to actually have a relationship with her? No f***ing way man!

 

I am insane. But I was pulling your leg. (the left one not the middle one).

[Tim'sAngel]

Seems like theres 2 subjects going on here. Whether or not it is acceptable for you male mate to go to strip clubs, and whether it is unhealthy or not to contantly compare yourself to other people

 

As for the strip club thing Cat, if you guys talked it out, and come to an agreement, then I think that is wonderful. So many couples hit a rough spot where they can't agree on something and it eats away at their relationship. Although I personally don't see anything wrong w/my SO occasionally going to a strip club w/friends (id prolly go with him), I feel like if I had a problem w/it, then he should have enough respect for me to not go. It isn't like I'd be denying him food or water. He would live

 

As for comparing yourself to other women only to be disapointed in yourself, how can you think thats healthy? DOesn't that depress you? It is one thing to say "Ok, I'm going to go to the gym 3 times a week, start eating healthy foods, maybe go check out the new chic clothing store, get my hair and nails done..." It's another thing to sit around and think about how perfect strippers are and how you don't look like them, and bla bla bla...

 

A healthy way to look at yourself would be "I'm a beautiful women, I have good moral standards, a loving SO, beautiful children (if you have any) and not worry about how much more hotter the women next door is, or the stripper in the strip club down the street

[catgirl1927]

See, TA, to me, giving up and saying, "oh well, I'll never really be very pretty so I may as well just accept being ugly and try to make the most of it", is a LOT more depressing than working toward being perfect.

 

I see women all the time everywhere who think they are beautiful, and I'm happy for them, but their guts hang over their jeans and their arms are flabby and fat, and frankly, they are fooling themselves.

 

3 times a week? Wow. That's like, not going at all for me. I go just about every day. But I have been fat and unattractive, and I've been thin and hot. Thin and hot is WAY more work, but it's SO much better.

 

If you're happy, then I'm happy for you. Your life is easier than mine. I'm a very ambitious person, and I want to have and be the BEST I can be, not just "good enough."

[a4a]

See, TA, to me, giving up and saying, "oh well, I'll never really be very pretty so I may as well just accept being ugly and try to make the most of it", is a LOT more depressing than working toward being perfect.

I see women all the time everywhere who think they are beautiful, and I'm happy for them, but their guts hang over their jeans and their arms are flabby and fat, and frankly, they are fooling themselves.

 

3 times a week? Wow. That's like, not going at all for me. I go just about every day. But I have been fat and unattractive, and I've been thin and hot. Thin and hot is WAY more work, but it's SO much better.

 

If you're happy, then I'm happy for you. Your life is easier than mine. I'm a very ambitious person, and I want to have and be the BEST I can be, not just "good enough."

 

 

Those are what we call "muffin tops"

 

I do understand exactly what you are saying CG. It would be like missing 4 front teeth and saying you had a great smile.

 

But do you have an attainable goal for yourself?

[alphamale]

and not worry about how much more hotter the women next door is' date=' or the stripper in the strip club down the street[/quote']

this is impossible, it is the nature of woman.

[SmoochieFace]

A healthy way to look at yourself would be "I'm a beautiful women' date=' I have good moral standards, a loving SO, beautiful children (if you have any) and not worry about how much more hotter the women next door is, or the stripper in the strip club down the street[/quote']

 

That is a healthy way of looking at it but unfortunately society and its materialistic culture have conditioned the majority of us to think differently. We are now concerned about what everyone else has and being envious of it rather than being grateful for what we have.

[catgirl1927]

Those are what we call "muffin tops"

 

I do understand exactly what you are saying CG. It would be like missing 4 front teeth and saying you had a great smile.

 

But do you have an attainable goal for yourself?

 

I can see where you guys might think so. But I really don't.

[catgirl1927]

this is impossible, it is the nature of woman.

 

To want to be the best is the nature of any ambitious person. I also want to make more money than the woman next door.