D-i-v-o-r-c-e

[maedayvis]

Wow! Where does one start? I have been married for 12 years and feel as if I want a divorce. My husband loves me dearly and would part the Red Sea for me if he could! If I were to tell him that I wanted a divorce, he would be devastated. I have no idea what to do, stay in a relationship where I will be hurting him daily becasue I can't love him as much as he loves me? Or do I allow him to move on with his life and try to find someone who will love him more. We live in a small town, have both established our lives here, but his whole family lives here and of course I would be the *itch in the relationship if I left. He is a beatuiful father to our two children, everyone who meets him thinks he's a wondreful man, husband, and father, but I am not happy. I feel very selfish and need a little direction. HELP!

[uksurfer]

Hmmm. You're not my wife, are you?

 

Now that would really freak me out.

 

Sorry, I know that this doesn't help you, but my wife has just done almost the exact same thing to me. Almost the exact same situation, too. She gave me the 'speech' 4 weeks ago, and moves out into a rented room next weekend.

 

Not sure what advice I can give, other than what I wished had happened to us - in that if there are problems with the marriage, then try to talk to each other about it rather than jumping out and walking away with little or no warning.

 

Something to think about...

[Curmudgeon]

becasue I can't love him as much as he loves me?

 

Why can't you love him enough to make it work with a man who sounds like he's precisely what womnen all over are searching for -- attentive, devoted, faithful, "a wonderful man, husband, and father?"

 

Is there someone else or just something lacking in you, something missing in the marriage you can't or won't talk to him about to try to fix?

 

One thing I learned in the demise of my former marriage was to leave no stone unturned to try to make it right. In your case that would likely include marriage counseling. If you try it all and it still fails, at least you can forever-after look back and honestly say, "No regrets!"

[Gunny376]

Is he a good husband?

Is he a good father?

Is he a good for you and your children?

Is he an alcoholic?

Is he on drugs?

Does he cheat with other women?

Does he layout witht the boys all night running up and down the roads?

Does he have a gambling addiction?

Is he a criminal?

Is he child molestor?

Is he physicall abusive?

Is he emotionally abusive?

Does he love you, and willing to move Heaven and Earth ~ if he could ~ for you?

 

Plug in the answers to the above questions ~ and basically ~ fundamentally you've got yourself a "keeper" Which doesn't answer your question ~ because most of them you've already answered in an affirmative manner toward the positive.

 

Would be he be devastated? Yes! Absolutely to his very core: http://archives.his.com/smartmarriages/2002-March/msg00016.html

 

The best thing for your children?

http://archives.his.com/smartmarriages/2002-March/msg00035.html

 

I'm 49, and I'm just going to tell you the cold hard truth of the matter. Me? I want get seriously involved with someone who has children still living at home ~ still in school. Simply because I've gone through that twice ~ my own children are grown and gone ~ I'm out of the child support and child rearing business ~ and I don't want to get back into it. Especially with someone else's children.

 

And, to be honest with you ~ about the only thing that most women have to offer me is compaionship and physical intimacy. I know how to cook, clean house, wash clothes, ~ all of that. I'm retired military, have a great low stress ~ no stress job that interesting, mentally stimulating, work with and for great folks, have great benefits, from both work and the military, good low cost insurance for life. So, when all is said and done ~ I've got more to offer most women ~ than most women have to offer me ~ and I'm very selective about who I offer that up to.

 

From your post ~ I would assume that you're in your late twenties to early thirties ~ which most of the men that you're going to meet out there ~ have already been married ~ probally divorced once, twice, three times ~ have children ~ paying child support and / or alimony ~ which means as much as half of their income is going toward tazes, child support, and alimony ~ when I was paying child support ~ 1/4 of my after-tax income was going out as child support!!!!! And, if they're not paying child support ~ you have to ask yourself ~ "Is that really the kind of man that I want to be with?"

 

Besides, more often than not ~ used men are like used cars? If they were worth a damn to begin with, the original owner would have kept them to begin with!

 

Sounds like to me, you need to work on your relationship with your husband. I would recommend that you throughly explore this site ~

http://www.lightyourfire.com/womanquiz.cfm

 

And, get your husband involved.

[Curmudgeon]

Good one, Gunny. I was divorced at 48. I already had five children and was paying both spousal support (which ended soon after) and child support for my two youngest. At age 50 after living like a monk for two years I decided it was time for a bit of socializing.

 

I had three absolute requirements for any woman I might establish a relationship with:

 

1) Post-menopausal.

2) No shool-aged children at home.

3) Long-term employed with her own retirement plan.

 

Thankfully, I found all three in my wife. The last thing I wanted to do was get into the business of hands-on parenting for someone else's children.

 

Now child support is over as well and I'm looking forward to retirement in a few years and a comfortable one at that.

[Gunny376]

Living in a rurual community ~ finding a good man / woman is like finding a good job ~

 

~ you've generally have got to know someone that knows someone ~

~They're hard to come by

~ They're generally are already taken

~ The people that have them, have had them for a good long time

~ The people that have them ~ plan on keeping them

~ You're going to have to fight them to get them away from them

[Trimmer]

Well, you can't be my wife, because it's her family who lives near us in our small town, but other than that, a hauntingly familiar story.

 

One thing you didn't tell us, and maybe you don't know it yourself yet, is why you are considering divorce. The ol' "I can't love him as much as he loves me..." sounds like a smokescreen. It's what high-school kids tell each other when they break up - "it's not you, it's me" - in an attempt to make it easier but mostly because they aren't equipped to deal with the real issues going on. It may be something you believe yourself, and the mantra you focus on, but I think you're using it to avoid dealing with the real problem(s).

 

You clearly must have some kind of dissatisfaction - something missing, some "unmet needs" as we say around here - to consider divorce, but have you considered trying to figure out what those are, before considering the very drastic course of divorce?

 

And notice I avoid calling divorce a "solution". By itself, it's a decision, a course change, a life transition, but until you know what the real problem is, you haven't equipped yourself to make a reasonable decision about whether it is the only solution, whether you need to go all the way to that solution of last resort. And let's say we don't even consider the turmoil this will bring to your husband and kids - but just look at it from your own point of view. If you don't really have a clear and honest idea of what problem you have, are you really ready to push the thermonuclear button within your own life in an attempt to "solve" it?

 

So I'm not going to preach to you "divorce bad, divorce bad" with a closed mind. Hell, I've spent the last year successfully convincing myself that children of divorce - my own precious kids - will be OK if their loss is properly supported, and the relationship between their divorced parents is stable and supportive.

 

But what I am preaching starts with "know thyself." Before we even get to what consideration you might owe other players in this situation (husband and kids) make sure that you are being honest with yourself about what is going on, what problem you really need to solve. If that seems a daunting task, well, it may be, but if you want to see difficult, go read here about how difficult it is to tell your kids about your divorce; poke around elsewhere in this forum to get an idea of the pain and turmoil it brings. Divorce may seem the "obvious" solution, but it is by no means easy, and is certainly not painless to anyone involved.

 

You know, I'll freely admit, I am quite biased on this subject. The thing you said about your husband:

 

He is a beatuiful father to our two children, everyone who meets him thinks he's a wondreful man, husband, and father, but I am not happy.

 

You volunteer that he is a good father, but it's everyone else who says he's a good man and husband. It's right out of my own wife's mouth. In the last few years, she seemed irritated whenever I would get any kind of recognition for anything. I wonder if it was because she felt under-recognized, somehow underappreciated from the outside and maybe from within our marriage. Well, I'll never know for sure, because she didn't ever figure it out, or at least she didn't share it with me - she pushed the "eject" button and it's over.

 

I've put a huge amount of effort into recovering myself, rebuilding my life, and realizing a vision for my future without her. Even after knowing she was ready to leave, I made it clear that I was open to anything: "let's leave our old relationship behind, and build a new one...." And I have to imagine that with all the positive energy I've applied myself since this started, I could have been a pretty damn good partner in that rebuilding process.

 

I'm not saying I was perfect and she is the b*tch. I was clearly failing to meet her needs in some ways, but frankly she hid herself from me - in some instances actively and intentionally - until it was too late, and she was convinced that she had no solution left but to leave. The refrain you'll hear often from women who have left is "he wasn't meeting my needs, and by the time he realized that, I was worn out, and it was too little, too late." And the refrain from men is "I would have done anything once I realized, but I wasn't a mind reader."

 

 

Know yourself. First work to figure out what is really going on, what is missing in your life and your relationship. If you are willing to consider the drastic last resort of divorce, then why not first consider other drastic possibilities, like getting some individual counseling to try to clarify what is missing in your life and relationship, and including your husband in your deliberations - giving him a chance to become someone about whom you can say "he's a good husband."

[catgirl1927]

I will say this, divorce is awful, even in the best circumstances. Don't view it as a solution to your problems. If that's the best thing, then that's what you should do, I'm just saying to be absolutely sure it's the marriage you're not happy with before you put yourself and him and your kids through that, because there is no going back.

 

I don't think you should stay just because men are hard to come by in a small town. That's a terrible reason to stay, and I wouldn't want someone to stay with me because of that.

 

Therapy (just for you) might be a good idea. A therapist can help you get to the bottom of why you're so unhappy. It might not be him, it might be something else, and you're projecting that on to him. Just a suggestion.

[Gunny376]

 

I don't think you should stay just because men are hard to come by in a small town. That's a terrible reason to stay, and I wouldn't want someone to stay with me because of that.

 

Not my intention to imply that absolutely. I was putting it out there for her to consider ~ just another facet to consider.

[catgirl1927]

Not my intention to imply that absolutely. I was putting it out there for her to consider ~ just another facet to consider.

 

I really only mentioned that in particular because I guarantee you won't be the only one to say that to her. When I divorced I lived in a small town, and I was told that I should just stay and be unhappy and maybe cheat because I would never find another man.

[Gunny376]

I really only mentioned that in particular because I guarantee you won't be the only one to say that to her. When I divorced I lived in a small town, and I was told that I should just stay and be unhappy and maybe cheat because I would never find another man

 

Ultimately, just make sure you've got a good, dependable, low mileage car, a roadmap, and change then get "geographic". But, if you contain your 'search area" to within "5 miles of the city limits of,"...............

 

At best, its a numbers game. You go through a 100, you might meet 4, worth wasting your time on ~ of the four, you might find one.

[dgiirl]

Everyone's already given great advice. I would just like to add that you mention that you are not happy. How do you picture your life differently when you are divorced? Do you see yourself going out more, enjoying certain activities more? What is it that you envision life to be like once you are divorced? Is there any way you can bring those activities into your life now? After being in a relationship for 12 years, you're probably bogged down by the routine of life. Your whole happiness should not be defined by your marriage. Your husband is not responsible for your happiness, you are. And by changing the way you look at a situation, you can change the way you feel about it. Divorce is not something one should take likely, especially when you have kids, because all the problems you have with your husband now will STILL be there. But on top of all those problems, you have the additional problems that divorce brings to the table. If you want a divorce, then you should earn your way out of it by doing everything possible to try to solve your problems. Go to MC or IC. You owe it to yourself and everyone else who will be affected by it.

[Gunny376]

Your whole happiness should not be defined by your marriage. Your husband is not responsible for your happiness, you are. And by changing the way you look at a situation, you can change the way you feel about it. quote]

 

Glad to see this fundamental concept finally start to circulate across the globe!

[uksurfer]

Your whole happiness should not be defined by your marriage. Your husband is not responsible for your happiness, you are. And by changing the way you look at a situation, you can change the way you feel about it.

 

Glad to see this fundamental concept finally start to circulate across the globe!

 

Uhuh. Someone explain it to my damned wife, too, please.

[Gunny376]

People (it would seem to me more women than men) got this whole concept of marriage mixed up along the way?

 

And, I will the first to say ~ that I could be wrong? I don't know!

 

But, somewhere along the line ~ people got this concept that the other person was absolutely responsible for not only making the other person happy, ~ but for their happiness.

 

You hear this business of ~ I love you ~ but I'm not "in love" with you. Its already been scientifically proven that "love" is primarly a temporary bio-chemical reaction in the brain housing group ~ much akin to bi-polar disordgers and it lasts about three years at the most ~ which is incindentrly just about the length of time that it takes a child to learn how to walk, talk, feed, and cloth itself on its on. After that it wears off.

 

Rommance? Rommance was initiall conveived of in France during the 1400's and if you go back to the original source documents ~ it was the actual act of romance ~ of a married man to another woman ~ not his wife. In its purest forms ~ it wasn't even about becoming physically intimate with one another.

 

The end run course, you have all of these fallacies, theories, myths, that have been passed down and garbbled thorugh the ages of history ~ mixed the pressures of modern day life ~ and I might age the fallacies, myths, of modern day life ~ (everyone should strive to have three luxary cars a piece to drive, live like JR Ewiing of Dallas fame, etc) Easy credit ~ combined with the reality of parenthoood.

 

There's this entitilement mentaility in our lives today. Despite modern day labor saving devices, ~ washing machines, dryers, garbage disposals, microwave ovens, dishwashing machines, etc. SAHM swear they're working like Hebrew Slaves working for Pharaoh.

 

I would say that the majority of the problem between married couples these days is this ~ trying to have TOO much, too quickly, too easily ~ trying to keep up with the "Jones's" trying to impress people with what

all you've got ~ trying to work two fulltime jobs ~ while completely your PhD in a double major of Nuclear Science ~ Rocket Science, and serving on the PTA, and about half a dozen other organizations ~ and serving in the National Guard once a month.

 

This sucessful life we're trying to live is killing us ~ as indiviudals and as a couple.

 

And, then we get depressed ~ turn to drugs, alcohol, smoking dope, cigarettes, take pills to go to sleep ~ drink caffeine to wake up, shopping or gambling ~ or sex in excess. And, we wake up wondering why we're not happy?

 

Here's somthing you don't hear very often:

 

It is ABSOULTETLY POSSIBLE TO BE MADLY "IN LOVE" with a person who is absolutely WORSE person for you mentally, emotinally, and physcially! Just ask almost any battered woman?

 

Being in love isn't all that its cracked up to be.

[Gunny376]

Uhuh. Someone explain it to my damned wife, too, please.

 

I've seen especially among "un-happy" women convince otherwise "happy women" (I've seen this in men ~ but to a lesser degree) that they should be un-happy!

 

This happen in my marriage ~ when my ex started running around with a pack of un-happy wives. I told her ~ she was like a a poor begger in Bagdad that was just as happy as he could be ~ until a rich man came along one day and scolded him and told him, "What is the matter with you? Why are you so happy? Why are you smiliing? Why are you singing? Why are you whistiling? You're poor! Your a begger living on the streets ~ you should be miserable!!!!" After which he was! But, before, he didn't KNOW he was suppose to be miserable! Its all relative.

 

You got a roof over your head, food in your and your children's mouth, clothes to wear, warmth from the Winter's cold ~ you, your children, and your loved ones have their strength, health, freedom ~ you should be happy! Because you're WAY ahead of the game compared to about 3-4 billion other people on the planet!

[michelangelo]

If you have to divorce and are worried about the slim pickings in your small town, then move!

 

Then when you find a new guy and eventually get bored with that one, move again!

 

Repeat this pattern as many empty times as you need to to find out you blew it in divorcing this great guy you are married to now.

 

Then return back to him and beg him to take you back. Be sure to look at his bewildered and angry and hurt look on his face just before he slams the door in your face.

 

Wake up!

[Guest]

If you have to divorce and are worried about the slim pickings in your small town, then move!

 

Then when you find a new guy and eventually get bored with that one, move again!

 

Repeat this pattern as many empty times as you need to to find out you blew it in divorcing this great guy you are married to now.

 

Then return back to him and beg him to take you back. Be sure to look at his bewildered and angry and hurt look on his face just before he slams the door in your face.

 

Wake up!

 

There was a time in my life ~ when all a woman had to do was to have a pulse and be able to fog up a mirror with her breath ~ for me to be interested.

 

Men for the most part have to be the initator in almost all things regarding a relationship ~ and have to sell themselves ~ etc. Have money, a car, a job, wine and dine ~ or at least that's the way most of us have been condintioned.

 

I do alright by myself ~ I've got my military retirement and bennies coming in ~ plus what I earn at my civie job ~ which is above what the average household income is for these parts of the woods.

 

But, I crack up when I see a profile such as

 

http://www.match.com/profile/showprofile.aspx?lid=24&RN=4&PI=4&TP=S&UID=EvH27wFI6hYLGxK8bf1hgQ%3d%3d&Handle=LBblueEyes&DO=0

 

"51 years old, high school grad ~ secretarial ~ yet to get with her ~ I've got to earn a minimum of $75,000 a year?!!!!!!" ROTFLMAO!

 

I KNOW what I'm bringing to the party. (Pretty much everything) ~ my point is ~ I look at most women ~ beyond the tan, sleek, trimmed body ~ the pretty made up face with pearly whites ~ and think ~ "What is she bringing to the party BESIDES, all that, a carload of children, a drawer full of bills, and a $7 - $9 a hour dead end, going no-where job?

 

Need to wakeup ~ we're not in high school anymore ~ its takes more than just a pretty face. Most of us men ~ have been through at least one marriage ~ divorce. We're looking for someone who's going to be part of the solution ~ not part of the problem, part of the answers ~ not part of the question.

 

Then on top of that ~ I've got co-workers that are caught between taking care of elderly parents and in-laws - and raising the grandchildren. Me? I don't have that problem ~ don't want it.

 

But, I also know as a single man ~ that if and when I get with a woman, her problems become my problems, her worries become my worries, and even her bills can become my bills.

[Gunny376]

If you have to divorce and are worried about the slim pickings in your small town, then move!

 

Then when you find a new guy and eventually get bored with that one, move again!

 

Repeat this pattern as many empty times as you need to to find out you blew it in divorcing this great guy you are married to now.

 

Then return back to him and beg him to take you back. Be sure to look at his bewildered and angry and hurt look on his face just before he slams the door in your face.

 

Wake up!

 

There was a time in my life ~ when all a woman had to do was to have a pulse and be able to fog up a mirror with her breath ~ for me to be interested.

Men for the most part have to be the initator in almost all things regarding a relationship ~ and have to sell themselves ~ etc. Have money, a car, a job, wine and dine ~ or at least that's the way most of us have been condintioned.

I do alright by myself ~ I've got my military retirement and bennies coming in ~ plus what I earn at my civie job ~ which is above what the average household income is for these parts of the woods.

But, I crack up when I see a profile such as

http://www.match.com/profile/showprofile.aspx?lid=24&RN=4&PI=4&TP=S&UID=EvH27wFI6hYLGxK8bf1hgQ%3d%3d&Handle=LBblueEyes&DO=0

"51 years old, high school grad ~ secretarial ~ yet to get with her ~ I've got to earn a minimum of $75,000 a year?!!!!!!" ROTFLMAO!

I KNOW what I'm bringing to the party. (Pretty much everything) ~ my point is ~ I look at most women ~ beyond the tan, sleek, trimmed body ~ the pretty made up face with pearly whites ~ and think ~ "What is she bringing to the party BESIDES, all that, a carload of children, a drawer full of bills, and a $7 - $9 a hour dead end, going no-where job?

Need to wakeup ~ we're not in high school anymore ~ its takes more than just a pretty face. Most of us men ~ have been through at least one marriage ~ divorce. We're looking for someone who's going to be part of the solution ~ not part of the problem, part of the answers ~ not part of the question.

Then on top of that ~ I've got co-workers that are caught between taking care of elderly parents and in-laws - and raising the grandchildren. Me? I don't have that problem ~ don't want it.

But, I also know as a single man ~ that if and when I get with a woman, her problems become my problems, her worries become my worries, and even her bills can become my bills.

[Outcast]

It bears repeating often and loudly

 

 

YOUR HAPPINESS SHOULD NOT DEPEND ON YOUR HUSBAND. IT IS NOT HIS FAULT YOU ARE NOT 'HAPPY'.

 

IT IS UP TO YOU TO MAKE YOURSELF HAPPY!!!!!!!!

 

Read books by Albert Ellis - he shows people who it is their thinking that defines whether they are 'happy' or not.