Living together a month. Troubles!

[RecordProducer]

Generally, men dream of a happy and cheerful woman that never nags. In addition, she has to be strong, a good mother, neat, preferably cooks a few times a week, acts like a lady when they are out, and doesn't want sex more or less frequently than he does. We should strive to get as closest as possible to this model if we want to make them bend over without them noticing what's going on. Easy to say, hard to do in reality. When men are good - they are perfect. When they get even a little disappointed, they start going in the wrong direction with a 200 mph speed.

 

In a lack of a more suitable word, I will use the term "manipulation" - if a woman knows how to manipulate her man, everyone will be happy. But most women are too honest, impatient, detail-oriented, moody (due to our hormones), and stubborn. I wish I were the model I described. I know I could be, but then a little thing pisses me off and I lose charge of myself. (Deep sigh).

 

What a man wants from a woman is very simple, but too complicated for us to keep ourselves on the track.

 

What a woman wants from a man... I don't even want to start making a list. We idealize love, marriage, and everything. It's hard to keep up with a fantasy. We never skip to say what bothers us - if we do for 3 days then the anger accumulates and explodes like a storm out of the blue. We can't reconcile with the fact that most men have no clue of what is hurting us. And instead of labeling them as dumb (which they are in many situations), we accuse them of not caring about us and our feelings.

 

They disregard our feelings and think they are always right. But we must admit - we do the same! The only difference is that we KNOW we are right and they only THINK they are right. Got it? It's hard to communicate when both people are convinced that they are 100% right.

 

Imagine that you catch a fat person opening the fridge and you want to talk them out of eating right at that moment. So you start telling them how fat they are and how unhealthy and ugly that is. Not only that they already made up their mind to eat and you're ruining their plans, but you're also insulting them, all in a belief that you are RIGHT.

 

So they ignore you and keep unloading the food, totally pissed. Then you get to another point which you, of course, are RIGHT about: why didn't they want to eat with you? Maybe go to dinner together? Are you such bad company? They tell you they just want to eat right now and to leave them alone. In their head you're just annoying and they want to get rid of you. They might have considered going on a diet, but now that you've attacked them, they don't want to admit it...

 

So now that you can see both sides in this example, try to relate it to how men and women comunicate. The woman wants her desire to be fulfilled immediately, completely, and she is totally right about it. The man just wants to continue to do what he planned to do, although he is NOT RIGHT about it. Or so we think.

 

You can't change things or people over night. It takes time, it takes strategic measures, it takes energy and effort. But we don't want to involve any effort, because they are not involving any. So why bother?

 

Because when you hit a wall, you go around it - not THROUGH it. The wall will stay there no matter what. But we take a hammer and try to make a hole in it. Then we get tired and realize that we just ruined the wall, but it didn't fall. And even if you managed to demolish it, the very next day it's there again - stronger and thicker than ever!

[Becoming]

I'm sorry for this loss Shana, but you don't want to spend your life with someone who really doesn't want you and honor your wants and needs as equally as theirs.

 

Mourn and move on. Get your own cat and your own house, too, as aria relates.

 

And find out about yourself and why you wasted 5 years on a guy who obviously didn't want to commit to you. It's better than wasting 25 or more.

[RecordProducer]

I absolutely, totally, completely don't understand WHY you guys all are advising her to break up with this BF and move on. They just started living together and this is their first fight.

 

Is this how you really deal with your relationships? You ditch your partner after the first bad argument? I don't think so.

[Outcast]

If you would read the thread you'd see he told her he doesn't really want her there at all and told her she 'forced' him into living with her.

[Walk]

IF at some point in all this thread she had mentioned even once how he bent a little to include her into his life, then I would council that she attempt to work it out. But she hasn't even hinted that he was willing to comprimise.

 

Besides, he's already stated exactly what he wants, and that is for her to get out. If she doesn't, its just going to incite him more, and make him feel more trapped and as though she's forcing her intentions on him. It's not good for either of them.

 

The situation was too extreme for her to have to deal with and be happy with. She was giving up everything in order to comprimise. He refused to bend even a little. Even on something as small as getting a cat, or having drawers in the desk versus not. It wouldn't have affected him one way or the other if she had a printer on the desk, but it does affect her. So why should she try harder in order to continue to be unhappy? It makes no sense. At some point a person has to realize that they are giving far more then they will recieve, and decide if this fits into their life. Guage it off of the other persons actions and willingness to work on problems to determine if fighting for something is worthwhile. He has blatantly said he doesnt' want this. Why should she fight harder for it?

[AriaIncognito]

Is this how you really deal with your relationships? You ditch your partner after the first bad argument? I don't think so.

 

Heck no. I have never dumped a partner over a first bad arguement, but if you read older threads from Shana, you'll see that this mistreatment of her, was not limited to their living together. Right before they moved in together, she was very upset and posting over what she thought could be their demise, and then all of a sudden she posted saying they were gonna move in together instead. It seems like he's had her on an emotional roller coaster for far too long now, and from what I personally can tell, she deserves much more than that. Maybe he does love her, and maybe he needs time apart to realize how much. I'd just hope for her sake that she'd already be onto her next boyfriend by the time he came crawling back.

 

Jennifer

[Love Hurts]

"The truth is men do not respect a woman that they live with.

 

He has no commitment........... Bed time is great for him.

You pretty much do alot. Clean up. Do laundry, pay bills.

Have alot of responisbilitiy... He probably maintains a cool eye on expenses ........... yours. Not his. "

________________________________________________________

I'm sorry, but that same truth exists for MOST MARRIAGES as well! Many men hide who they are until they finally get you in the bag in marriage, then treat you like s***. THe problem is finding the right man who will respect you at ALL times. If he won't, then time to exit the relationship.

 

~Many hide their true self before marriage.

It is above and beyond;" putting your best foot forward". To hide alterior motives or masking something of a more evil nature is sinister.

 

Sinister- such as the sick weak minded control freaks, women haters and or man haters, gold diggers to marital murderers for finacial gain.

 

We are aware of the fact, there are people that have married for the sheer intent to take out an insurance policy on their spouse, conspiring to do them in for the cold hard cash. Yikes imagine that.

 

Love of money is unfortunately grater than the love for life for many. Selfishness, lovelessness self- hatred and the likes of sinister. Evil minded individuals wear a mask disguising their alterior motives.

 

It is extremely difficult to discover the dark heart in the actor with unhealthy intentions. Thus, so many have fallen prey to the sinister... love is blind, which makes it an effective perfect tool for which to work through a plan for evil. The leur knows exactly how to perform and work out a plan.

 

Now best foot forward- is a quality, perked into action by the desire to please. The more natural gitty inspiration of double checking our appearance before meeting our special someone. Guarding our language,

thinking of extra little things to bring a smile to the other. Inspiring and encouraging, its polite. That's natural for the... pure of evil motives individual.

 

*How can anyone be certain as to who or what they have in a relationship?

 

The answer lies within ourselves, we have a gift called gut instinct, it's a radar built in to our system.... If we can think of the situations we have been in, that have turned ugly on us... Somewhere in the very begining...

 

Our gut told us to run......... Some individuals have a radar so strong they tremble or shake.

 

Some feel sick. For others it's a weaker signal, none the less we have it in us.. We are to rely on it... When we do not listen to our inner radar.... we move onward and into the wrong situation. When intelligence, or commonsense is not working or our vission is impaired to see the true person behind the mask... Radar steps in sending us a warning signal.

 

Note our radar can be lost in the sea of alcohol or drug use. Making it more difficult to reach us in time.

_________________________________________________________

 

SOrry, but it is MUCH BETTER and much more WISE to live with him first and find out his true personality, instead of the other option of RUSHING INTO MARRIAGE without living together first. The latter is for religious people who will likely never devorce anyways, because they want to please god and stay married miserable forever! If he is a control freak who doesn't even want to go out with you, best you found out early!

~

Living together often times is not simply the result of two hearts in love that can not bare to be apart from one another. It has an underlying carpet of combining things... Money first. People become unreasonalble and believe it is more financially feasible to live together as appose to apart.

This is ground that eliminates, self respect, pushes love to the back burner and we have a new focus underlying ..money. The suprifical mention of it being a factor in living together... is more significant than we can imagine.

 

Two hearts that can not take the absense of one from the other any longer and take the plunge of living together.......... often times make it for the long run and have been together for years. Yet if you dig into their closet of personal dismays... they have managed to cover the lack of self respect one has for the other..... for their inability to hold on at the begining as their are many shoulda -coulda- woulda's in the later days of hind site is 20/20.

She may wish she held out for wedding gown and the hype of the crowd wishing her well. He may have considered she was too easy to get. Little things mean alot. Also superiority is often expected by the mate that makes the most cash or has the more stable job. Just little things... that have a strong impact.

 

Commitment made in marriage is a show of strength, willingness to give ones heart for a life time. A marriage is not perfect, it comes with problems. But it can win over the live in situation having shown a willing commitment right out of the gate.

 

The grounds for the nonsinister heart and mind, are based on: I love this person in my life.

Let's grow old together and have stories to tell in our old age.

The best marriage is when there are three together in the relationship, him, her and God at the helm. They have God to take their burdens to.

 

Christian marriages break up too.......... none are exempt from Satanic attack... only the strong survive.. The true lovers.. always win with God at the helm.... through hell and high water... they go through the storms.

 

There are also the fake Christian mates.... they act out what the other christian wants to hear and see.. until they get what they want, once unmasked.... you see what you have. Radar was working.... someone didn't heed the warning.

 

God does not want any of us to stay together in a relationhip that is ugly, abusive, degrading or life threatening. Adultery is not the only reason to have grounds for divorce.

 

The bottom line is. Radar, common sense, waiting, patience is something many of us lack. We want the microwave relationship. Fast and yesterday already.

 

We all think differently, and can find many self reasons to solidify the choices we make. The greater plan was designed to help us get through this messy maze of life. In the end we could have been winners more times than not ... had we did some things Gods way.

 

Longer courtships ... absence makes the heart grow fonder...

They make the most wonderful love stories.

How they waited for love to unite in marriage.. is beautiful.

Especially when they are telling their stories in their 80's.

[Shana555]

I just called him to let him know I was heading over to pick up my coats that I forgot in the back closet. He never asked for the key back so I held onto it just incase I did forget something there.

 

He said ok, then was asking what are we going to do know.. Are we going to still talk? I said no there is no reason for us to talk. That I am looking to move forward in a relationship, not backwards. He said, he’s not trying to get back together right now, but we were together 5 years and he doesn’t want to just throw away everything. That he was just not happy living together, that it was just too much and he couldn't take it.

 

I said us failing at living together made it crystal clear that we have no future together so there is no point of us having any contact. He responded, so if I see you in public you want me to just walk by like I don’t know you? I paused not really knowing what to say. I know that no contact is the best and it is what we need to both move on, but of course my feelings and emotions are so strong right now.

 

I said that I tried to talk to him that morning before I moved out, but he didin’t want to. He said that he was running late and had to go. He thought that I would have waited for him to get home so we could talk. I said, you said you didn’t want me living there so I left right away. Why would I stick around? He said he understands.

 

He said he had to go do something really quick at work and asked if he could call me back soon. I said no don’t call back and that I need to go.

He hung up.

 

This is soooo hard!!! I planned to just get off the phone if he started talked about more then what I called for, but I couldn’t do it. I really wish things were different and we could have worked it out. Deep down I still wish we could, but know it’s not realistic. I want to be strong and happy, but this just hurts so much.

[Outcast]

I said us failing at living together made it crystal clear that we have no future together

 

You are absolutely correct. Stick to your guns. If, after FIVE YEARS together it was 'too hard' for him to live with you then you will never be able to live together. He wants you around because he's used to you and you're handy - he doesn't have to get to know someone new. He may have some affection for you but it's clearly not enough. So absolutely do not feel bad about cutting him off.

 

This is why I recommend people live together before they marry. You learn a LOT real fast about whether or not you're a good lifetime pair.

[RecordProducer]

I think he wants to be in a relationship with you but is not ready for living with you or marriage. Let's see if he would rather lose you that live with you. Just do no-contact and see if he's gonna call you. if he does and wants to be with you then he loves you.

 

Remember that ALL relationships are complicated and need hard work. But how much you're willing to work and how hard the work is for you (or him) depends on how much you love each other. Without true love - nothing makes sense.

[timidity99]

I think he wants to be in a relationship with you but is not ready for living with you or marriage. Let's see if he would rather lose you that live with you. Just do no-contact and see if he's gonna call you. if he does and wants to be with you then he loves you.

 

Remember that ALL relationships are complicated and need hard work. But how much you're willing to work and how hard the work is for you (or him) depends on how much you love each other. Without true love - nothing makes sense.

 

Living with her or marrying her because he fears losing her forever is not a good motivator for doing either one of those things. Sooner or later he will just resent her for putting that kind of pressure on him.

[Outcast]

I think he wants to be in a relationship with you but is not ready for living with you or marriage.

 

After FIVE YEARS, if he's 'not ready' he never will be, which means she's well rid of him.

[catgirl1927]

After FIVE YEARS, if he's 'not ready' he never will be, which means she's well rid of him.

'

 

I agree with this. Not being ready to commit means someone thinks they can do better. She deserves someone who realizes how valuable she is, not someone constantly on the lookout for something else.

[Walk]

After FIVE YEARS, if he's 'not ready' he never will be, which means she's well rid of him.

 

I agree too. He'd never be able to commit past "dating". And it doesn't sound as if Shana would be terribly happy "dating" like that for the rest of her life.

 

I know I wouldn't be.

 

And I think waiting around, hoping he'll change, is a poor way to live your life.

[Shana555]

I apologize ahead. I know this post is going to be long! So much on my mind. Also, I hate to keep posting so many updates, but my family and friends are getting tired of hearing about it and just tell me to move on. It’s not that easy! Especially after last night.

 

Well, I was going to get the rest of my stuff back yesterday while he was at work, but realized I don’t have the key! I had to go over later that night when he was home. He had a friend over that during the 5 years with my ex I have become very close to. In the past couple years he has gone through a shaky marriage and messy divorce. He always came to me to talk about it. Anyway, soon after I got there my ex got into the shower so I talked to this friend alone.

 

He expressed how awful he feels about everything since he likes both of us so much and always thought we were great together. He said that my ex has asked him to come over everyday after work since this has happened and has ended up sleeping over every night. Said my ex has been having a hard time and wanted to keep busy. He told me things that have been going on. That my ex keeps asking questions about what he should do. Friend said he was totally confused by this statement my ex made, but this was it: I love her to death and want to work this all out, but I just can’t have her living here right now. Friend is just as confused as I am!

 

He said he hasn’t seen my ex eat or sleep much. This Sunday night he got up at 3am to use the bathroom and my ex was up watching TV. He said that he had a good dream about me and couldn’t sleep. I was just on another friends webpage. Our friends had a jack and jill this weekend and there is a picture of the guys together all drinking and posing for the camera. He’s not smiling, standing there with his arms crossed, and looks sad. Not like him, he’s usually the one with the biggest smile making a funny pose.

 

Friend brought up that we need to go through arguments better. That we should not freak out on each other. I’m guessing my ex told him how I reacted about the cat and during other arguments. He suggested when we get that angry, to take a deep breath and think about not just ourselves before we speak. I know I reacted awful during these arguments and I really should have stopped and thought before I fired off on him.

 

Friend explained to me how he thinks my ex feels. That this is his big achievement. Building his own house. Rewind, this guy has been friends with my ex since they were kids. They were neighbors growing up. He said it has always been something he has talked and dreamed about. (The having his own house thing.) He thinks my ex was just not ready to have somebody in there with him living day after day, that he probably just wants to do his own thing like having friends over and doing whatever, whenever he wants since he was never able to before this house. But he said he knows he loves and cares for me with all his heart. Said my ex has always told him this and still does.

 

After my ex got out of the shower we talked about other things and friend went to bed. I was going to leave then, but he asked me to stay for a few. Not sure why, but I agreed to. From about 10 to 2am we stayed up just talking. We had friendly chat talking about life. Then went on and told me pretty much everything his friend did and that he’s willing to do anything to work this out. He said even if I won’t go back into a relationship he wants to be close friends like we always were. We finally went to sleep.

 

I’m so confused! I’m sure you all will shake your heads when you read this, but honestly I wish we could work this out somehow. I think anyone who is in love has hope their SO will change. Just a fantasy? Maybe I should let him try and woo me like being uncomfortable picking me up at my parents to take me out (since they are so angry with him right now). Does counseling ever work? I have always believed that people can change. Problem is he may see no reason to change if I take him back, but if he does whatever it takes to win me back then it’s a good thing? But saying he’s sorry isn’t going to cut it anymore. Definitely not and I’m not giving in to running back to him... He’ll have to make a big effort to just hang out as friends… I’m not at his beck and call anymore.

 

I want to know he actually cares and isn't using me just because I’m convenient. That will take a lot to prove to me. I worry if I’d be able to tell the difference. Could it be possible that he is really sincere about being so in love and wanting to be with me, but just needs more time living on his own before living with somebody? What do you guys think? Stick to my guns about cutting him off completely or give this a chance somehow

[Kengne]

Shana,

 

First off - I think your bf really does love you. But he can love you to bits & pieces, and STILL not be able to give you the commitment you seek or desire at this stage in your relationship after 5 years.

 

Moving in together is a BIG step in that right path - but it has to be done with a clear understanding of WHY you're doing it (e.g. as a show of commitment). It's only when one person is ready to take that step (YOU) and the other person isn't (your BF) that problems like these arise.

 

Here's my 2 cents: first of all, let me state for the record that I am not gung-ho on co-habitating prior to marriage, period. Partly for the same reasons as your bf. I intend to get my own place in the next few years, and I am NOT trying to have no one move in & shack up with me in MY damn house or vice versa feel me? If I ever move in with a man, it will be with my fiance and it will have to be a home that belongs to neither of us. Because then this issue of his home / my home & ppl feeling like a guest won't arise.

 

BACK to you:

 

I think the choice is clear Shanna. Your bf just got his own place, he's still living & working in that independent mode and is not ready to commit - right now - to you the way YOU want him to commit i.e. by living together (and at the same time giving up his newly gained personal space in the home he dreamed about and prolly slaved to buy).

 

It does not mean he doesn't love you.

 

Just that he isn't ready to take that step forward with you - RIGHT NOW.

 

It's really all up to you - are you PREPARED to wait another 1, 2, 3 or 5 years for him to 'get ready'? How much are YOU willing to take from him, because he has clearly shown you all he has to offer (his heart, not his home - right now) and you have to decide if that's enough.

 

Now I can't tell you what to do - but I'll tell you what I would do in your situation.

 

Definitely - NO MORE ultimatums, of any sort. You cannot force a man to commit to you. You cannot force him to want the same things YOU want, at the same time YOU want them.

 

If I was in your shoes ... after 5 years *DAMN! that's a long a$$ time* assuming I was ready to take it to the next level and my bf STILL wasn't... I'm sorry, but I'd have to love him & let him go.

 

I'd have to accept that my bf was not ready to commit to me. I'd say this to him.

 

"X - I love you. And for these last 5 years I have grown with you, laughed with you, cried with you and had some good & bad times with you. At this point in our rel'ship I felt ready to take it to the next level, and I thought that was what we were doing by moving in together. But I see now that you were not ready to take the step, and I am sorry if I in any way forced your hand. I love you, and that was not my intention to make you do something you were not comfortable with or ready to do.

 

I thank you for your honesty in letting me know how you felt. I know it was difficult. But now it's time for you to know how I feel. At this point - I am not prepared to continue the relationship. I am ready to move forward, and you are not. We are no longer on the same wavelength. You are doing what feels right for you, and now I have to do the same for me, no matter how much it hurts.

 

It does not mean I don't love you. But I love myself more, and I have to do what's right for me. Maybe some time down the road we can be friends, but for now I think we need space."

 

That's it. And then I'd go into strict NC.

 

Now... this is NOT to 'get him back' or make him see what he's losing out on. This would be for ME to move on and heal from the rel'ship. And if he comes back - great! And if not - great! Either ways, I'm still healed from the rel'ship.

 

Shanna ... either you let him go now, and potentially find someone who WILL give you the committment you are seeking in the timeframe you want ... or you continue with your ex-bf on the hope/belief that one day, MAYBE, he will be ready to take it to that level. Anything is possible. He could turn around 3 mths from now and ask you to marry. Or you could be in the same situation 3 years from now. The future is untold.

 

I just know if it was ME... after 5 whole years! I would NOT have the time nor patience to wait another 5 years - sorry! If it takes too much sweat, it ain't worth it. This world is too short. If he can't commit now, that's his problem - NOT yours. I'd move on, because I'd be 99% sure that there is someone else out there who WOULD commit to me.

 

K.

[timidity99]

withdrew post

[Outcast]

He thinks my ex was just not ready to have somebody in there with him living day after day, that he probably just wants to do his own thing like having friends over and doing whatever, whenever he wants since he was never able to before this house. But he said he knows he loves and cares for me with all his heart. Said my ex has always told him this and still does.

 

Oh piffle. I totally agree with Kenge. This guy is almost 30. He's not a kid just out of his parents' home. There are men who, yes, will claim they love you but they never love you enough to get past their own committment issues. And so they keep you around, dangling you for years while you wait for the impossible to happen. Love is not enough. Repeat: Love is NOT enough. A good partnership/marriage/whatever requires that both people be willing to commit to one another and, yes, make a few sacrifices. This guy doesn't sound like he'll be ready for that for years yet. Up to you if you want to wait but, like Kenge, I wouldn't hang around any longer.

[Walk]

Shana, I think you need to take a good hard look at what you want in life. Both now, and in the future. If the level of commitment that you want is equivalent to the "living together" stage. Then I don't think you should comprimise this. You'll resent him, and be dissatisfied and unhappy with your life.

 

Why don't you sit down and make a list of what you want out of life. Short term and long term goals, needs, and wants. Where do you see yourself? What would make you happiest?

 

Then go back and look at how your ex may fit into these. If it's obvious that his wants don't match, then although hard for you now, it would make you happier in the long run to find someone who more closely matches those ideals. Two people can love each other to bits, but if their wants in life are very different, then continuing to stay together causes more harm then good. And the point of relationships is to help more then harm.

 

However, if you feel that your ex's wants/goals etc, would be close enough overall to allow you to feel happy, then there are other paths you can take to help your relationship get to a level where 'both' of you would be comfortable with a higher level of commitment. And make for a mutually satisfying relationship.

 

But the first step is figuring out what YOU really want in life. What's important to you? Where are you at in your life? Does a SO fit into your goals and wants at this time? Or do you want somethings simply because that is what society says you should want? Look really closely at the reasons you want these things, and figure out what you could potentially comprimise on, and what you absolutely cannot comprimise on. Then stick to them. You will never be happy if you comprimise in areas you know you shouldn't be comprimising on.

 

 

p.s. keep posting. We're here if you need an ear.

[Walk]

Also... I think if you feel this relationship would fit into what you wanted in the long run, then there are paths you could take to make this relationship much better and stronger. however, it would depend on his desire to keep the relationship, and desire to make it into something better. If he doesn't want it, you can't force it. He has to want the relationship to work, and be working toward the same thing. Otherwise it won't matter how much effort you put into it, it will fail.