Getting Seperated...totally lost

[ilmw]

Hi again,

 

Just went on the Web and googled Emotional Survival for law enforcement.

 

Author: Dr. Kevin M. Gilmartin Ph.D.

 

ISBN: 0-9717254-0-3, BE2728/$19.95

 

You will love this.... he is a veternan of the US Marine Corps....hahah

[ilmw]

Well,

 

Not much has changed down on the farm. Well that is how it seems.

 

My DW still does not love me... but.

 

She was meant to go away on the weekend with a crowd from her work... annual weekend at the cottage. She didn't want to go...

 

She had worked 2 weeks straight and wanted to see the kids. The other night, I called her on my way home... and to let her know I was heading home... Kids in bed already and she likes to know if I have to work OT. Well she called again when I was walking in the door of our house to see if everything was ok (kids).

 

Stuff like this confuses the hell out of me. I would have called her if something was wrong and she knows this.

 

The other night we went over to our next door neighbours house. He and his wife had expressed interest in buying our home. We had a conversation and they said they would think about putting in an offer. Then we had a few drinks (they are our friends too ) Anyway....we get back to our house a little latter ...and because of the (drink) I am a little more open mouthed. I started to tell her that my feelings for her are still the same...that I think the marriage cam work...that I know she does not think this way...She told me again she has to sell the house...and that she does not love me. Well I tell her (nicely) that I am a good catch. That if we don't ever patch this relationship up....that I am gonna make a fantastic partner to someone else. Because of all the personal growth and letting go of my past. (God I feel sometimes I am reborn) Well my DW agreed with me...but the converstation soon died after because I could see she was getting stressed. I said to her that I did not mean to be stressing her out... I then got up and went to bed.

 

The next morning...she was friendly and asked if I still wanted to go to the ZOO. ( I had made the suggestion several days prior...expecting to get a...you take the kids...I'll stay home)

 

Yesterday, (Thursday) we as a family went to the ZOO. We had a great time and she said that she did to. It was a realy nice time.

 

 

Its like when I stand up to her.....she takes notice...when I sit there and agree to what ever she says....I feel weak.

 

I am following the suggestions on LS given to so many of you..and reading other posts...but (@*#$$!!) I am confused.

 

My DW parents are coming to stay the night tonight...They are going to a Wedding in Toronto in the afternoon..my DW is taking them (I'm not going...my DW thought it would be to unconfortable for me to go...she said she filled our the RSVP infront of me...and seemed shocked and upset that I.... had indeed wanted to go)

 

Well.....I get along great with my in-laws. They have both told me that they think I am wonderful. My DW's own mother has told me that she said to her daughter, "you are damn lucky to have a man like that around" "most men would have left as soon as you said you wanted to seperate"

 

Does going to weddings make woman reconsider there relationships? (#4$$*&@) I feel like some 15 year old kid... I used to have all the answers... Now ????

 

I kindly word would be appricated..

 

Up and down again....but not showing it!

 

ilmw

[Becoming]

I've read all of this thread, ilmw, and I'm sorry for your pain, delighted to see you working on yourself.

 

But I wanted to offer an alpha woman's point of view here. I was married to a man who collapsed into nothing when he came home. I say was married because even though we are still together, he is not the same man. He actually started to show up in the marriage instead of being a lump of nothingness.

 

What I wanted (and am now getting) was for him to be emotionally available as well as proactive with regard to our lives, our house, our kids. It's like we want alphamale with emotional awareness and ability to communicate those emotions--from a position of strength, not weak "Take care of me Mommy!"

 

A couple times your DW has initiated outings. I think she's trying to get physical help with everything--the house going on the market, the kids, etc--and also emotional caring from you. It's like she's fishing to see what's really there in you and available to her.

 

I read about all you're doing to care for you, and that's extremely commendable. But what are you doing to care for her? I know she may not let you. She may try to push you away. But underneath her together exterior (which is "stressed" and "strained"), she's just a human being who needs to know she's loved and cared for, too.

 

Show her your care consistently over time (she won't trust it's for real for awhile), and I think she might be back. You're standing back being perhaps too respectful of what it is she rationally says she wants. Emotionally, I suspect she wants care and honest sharing of feelings. Most women want to be swept up like Scarlet O'Hara (a strong woman!) by Rhett Butler (a strong man)--as long as there is some love there (and knowing whether that's true or not is confusing).

 

Ask her to take the emotional needs inventory on marriagebuilders and ask if she'll sit down with you over dinner to compare it to the one you've taken (which you'll have to do if you haven't already). Ask her in the interest of helping one another figure out what went wrong in your marriage so you can fix it, if not for this marriage, then for your future relationships. Such a conversation was eye-opening for my H and me.

 

What made my H come back to life, though, was prayer, getting in touch with the power of life coursing through all, including the death and dirt of this world. I encourage you to find out more about this Power you're praying to through studies in spirituality and theology as well. Just because you may have had a bad experience with churches in the past doesn't mean they're all like this. Find one that can teach you about the things you're experiencing prayer so you can recognize that power, learn to trust it (without having to make everything better yourself (because you can't)), and open yourself up more and more to its healing light.

 

All the best!

[ilmw]

Thanks for your input.. its always nice to get all kinds of ideas from other people.

 

As for giving emotional care from me... to my DW.... I have been there for when ever she want's to vent.. after a long day at work... I show real interest in what she has to say... I stopped giving me 2 cents every time she opened her mouth.... I validate her more now than I think I have ever.... If iI feel I have been misunderstood.. I clarify what I said and am feeling. I try to keep are conversations light hearted... and get humour in there as much as possible without looking like a clown..... "just being nice"

 

I clean up and do the laundry when it needs to be done...instead of leaving it for her to do. I do things around the house instead of having to be asked. I do things gladly with out getting grumpy... I know find I enjoy doing things... instead of sitting on my but... I have become closer with my step-son than we have in many years... I find it so much easier to tell him that I love him... and think of him as my own. (this was an issue several months ago.

 

I stopped telling her "I love you"... everytime I said this, her face looked stressed and she would say "I know you do" .....but I want to run around and yell it from the highest building!!!!

 

I have stopped being needy ( a big one)

 

I know what her greatest EN is and that is to be validated cheerished and loved.... That is how I treated her before my emotional crash. She was bright eyed and over the moon... Now her eyes don't smile when she talks to me.... Not the way they did...not that long ago.

 

As for the emotional need inventory.... I have thought about it....I guess it couldn't hurt to try...nothing to lose.. every thing to gain (knowledge)

 

I am realy lost to what else to do.... I am always nice and respectful... How can one show love ... when the other will not respond the same way. Its been a long time since I have been single and am far to spoiled emotionaly by myDW to know what else to do. She gave it all... I just had to show up.

 

I am trying to be more outgoing....and I am now... the way I used to be. But she seems to shut down at times... I know I read to much into things... and my mind races to find answers

 

If you can shed some light from your own female point of view... (same old excuse....I'm a guy and I'm not good at this stuff)

 

I know how to show her love... if she would except it... she appears not to want it.

 

Sometimes I feel like a ballon ready to burst with love, I have for my DW... How can I show her this... when she appears to not want this (I think I already asked this one)

 

As for church and god... honestly... I have not believed in god since I was a small child. Of course in the past I have prayed when I realy thought I wanted something. But now................ I asked god to help me....I prayed for the first time in my adult life for real. Guess what... I peace came over me... comfort. Allowing myself to believe in a higher being has brought some peace in my life that has been in conflict for as far back as I can remember. Going to church...........not that ready yet. I am finding god at my own pace... Like sliding into a hot bath. Nice and slow.... but looking forward to getting all the way in.

 

If you can give this emotional dummy some pointers.... I am quick to learn (re-learn)

 

BTW... our wedding anniversary is coming up in August. I found a wonderful photo of my DW from my brothers wedding last year (she was brides made) I'm having her portrait drawn from that in pencil. I'm having it framed with a small poem I wrote. My DW loves poetry...

 

What do you think?

 

ilmw

[Becoming]

It sounds like you're doing all the right things and that it'll just take time and persistent patience--and even then you know you can't control what she'll do. If you know she likes poetry, then sure. . . .

It seems marriage is about being willing to lay our hearts bare in all their vulnerability and taking the risk that we'll get hurt, but being strong enough to be able to live with the pain of rejection knowing that if who we really are can't be accepted and loved, it's not what's good for us.

 

Understand about the God thing--not trying to be pushy. Also understand that peace. But God is not a god under our control, just a life force we have to go with under Its/His/Her control. It's just easier to trust that force when we know as much as we can about it. And anyone who tells you we can know it completely is lying. But there are some things that seem to be universal about it beyond all our religious attempts to try to explain it that religion can help us understand and learn to trust. That's all. Enjoy the bath!

 

And if you want to go to that wedding, go. Your name was on the invitation, too, right? She doesn't have the right to keep you from doing what you want to do, and it's not your job to take care of her feelings-that's her job. She may not want the embarrassment of having to explain herself and what's happened, but that's her business. Your business is of taking care of your feelings--knowing them and expressing them honestly and gently but firmly.

 

As you come to know who you are more and more, your confusion will lift. She's not causing your confusion. Believe it or not, that's coming from you not knowing what you do and do not want and need in your life.

[ilmw]

Hi all,

 

Been busy at work and not been able to write...(long days..nights etc)

 

Just want to thank Becoming for your comments. I realise that all this will take time... and the end results may be not what I want... I think that at times I fall apart.. and just want somebody to tell me it will be all ok. I can't do it here.... and I have no expectation any one on LS to do it either.

 

Luckly all who have responded to my blubbering have shown understanding, knowledge and insight. This is what I have needed. People who have a clue what I am going through. It has/ is helping more than I could have ever thought.

 

Gunny.... I started reading Alpha male (Carlos Xuma) Interesting read. I saw things it what he is saying, and it reminded me of when I was single. A lot of what he described was me in my early 20's...and again not that long ago. I can see why my DW saw such a large change in me character. Reading it has helped me focus on the old me.... the one she fell in love with. Thx for the info on this... I agree with alot of what he has to say. I'm getting the CD's soon....too.

 

I do find my low days are decreasing and my good days becoming more frequent. I think in time I'll get all my strength back....but I already feel stronger (NOW) than I have in many years...even before my emotional crash.

 

Empowered...yup...the things I have read and listened too. I guess a little of my character as well..."A" type personality etc.. Are making this a lot easier to handle. Now I have some clue what has happened to me, my DW and are relationship.

 

My attitute is better also....but the fact remains the same...I still love my wife more than words can say.... I guess I know its over (when/if) she askes for a divorce. But atleast I am mentally preparing for it already...and this won't kill me... just make me stronger (a little Conan quote.... )

 

Gunny you have any other CD recomendations??

 

Thx guys and girls.

 

ilmw

[Gunny376]

DivorceGollyWobbles & Paul H. Stevens

[ilmw]

Gunny...Thx for the info...

 

Did you check out that book I recommended?

 

Take it easy..

 

ilmw

[Gunny376]

about Carlos ~ is that even though he's a "Dating Guru" he uses the Alpha Man book as his foundation. Granted he's tying it into the dating and mating scene ~ but he's right about so many men have lost the sense of self, and of just being men. Buying off on all the media hype ~ feminisim crap that's been feed to us for the last forty years. Reading the Alpha Male material helped me regain my "center" as the human being and man that I am. I agree with what he says 100%, especially about balance.

 

(For clarification purposes ~ for the Ladies ~ being an "Alpha Male" is about being a leader, confident, self assured, self awarness, being positive, etc. Its not about being a knuckle dragging Neranderthal, macho, over masculine jerk ~ and yes women can be and are Alpha's ~ very much so ~ Hilliary Clinton, Conde Rice, Justice O'Connor, etc)

 

I like the "Alpha Male" so much ~ that I ordered "The Dating Black Book" which in 20/20 hindsight open my eyes up to a lot of things about women, dating, mating, marriage, and why the Hell I ended up getting divorce when I was a damn good husband, (that what my ex told me as she left me?)

 

Its been 16 years since the X walked out on me (the 31st of this month), and I'm still learning and growing from the expereince.

 

Reading Carlos material has re-asserted that I'm not freaking crazy, abnormal. A lot of what brought about my divorce was "situational stress"

The Marine Corps is a pretty demanding employeer. The Commandant of the Marine Corps tried a couple of years ago to take things back to the 1930's where you had to be at least a Corporal (four years in) and have the premission of your Commanding Officer to get married. The feminnist and women Senators and Congresswomen had a fit. The Corps backed off, and said OK, we'll just continue on with the 70% + divorce rate!!!! No biggie.

 

Bottom line ~ I could hang with the demands ~ the XW couldn't. My life back then was very much like Clint Eastwood in "Heartbreak Ridge" with my X playing the role of Clint Eastwood's wife.

 

The following conversation actually took place not only with the XW, but with my last GF:

 

Me: I've got to go

Her: Where?

 

Me: I don't know?

 

Her: When will you be back?

Me: I don't know?

 

Her: When will you call?

Me: I don't know? I don't know if they've even got phones there?

 

Her: When will you write?

Me: Whenever they get mail service set up!

 

Hurricane Andrew relief? No problem! "Hey Babe! What's up! Oh, I'll be home in about 8 weeks!"

 

When I went to Rwanda on the GF? I didn't know until the last minute where they were sending me? And when I did, I couldn't tell anyone?

 

If you're in the military, you have to sign these statements, that you won't tell anyone ~ anything ~ about what happened ~ about what went down until 50 years after your 99th birthday? LOL!

 

So you end up draging a lot of dead horses around everywhere you go!

 

Read Carlos stuff ~ its good stuff. It'll get you back to "ground~zero" back to your center. It'll get you back to who you are, what you are. I know a lot of it is redundant ~ in that you know it already ~ thing is you've forgot it. Or it got watered down. The day to day wore you down. The wife, the kids, the bills, the mortgage, the boss chewing your butt until it felt like a puppy's new chew toy.

 

You? You're in law enforcement ~ para military. The Corps ~ Marine Bootcamp? Its like I use to tell the "kids" bootcamp is just to test you to see if you've got what it takes to make it day to day out here in the Fleet! I did 20 years in the Corps, and EVERYDAY was a test of wheather you measured up ~ and the one second, the one minute you didn't ~ you were gone!

 

I had friends that had 19-1/2 years in, and got put out! One was five pounds over his maxium weight allowance, and the other while under his weight allowance got put out (without a retirement) because he was over his BMI?! WTF? It got so bad Congress finally passed a law that said if the individual gets passed his 18th year ~ and hasn't committed a Capital Crime ~ he can retire.

 

My point here is ~ its not easy being a husband.

 

I'll shut up, but before I go

 

Google

 

"Light Her Fire"

 

"Light Your Fire"

[ilmw]

Yup....I agree with everything you posted. Carlos... is helping me see.. how I once was... or more like I once was like... before I let life and all my other hang ups get me down and turn me.... at least at home where I was safe and out of everyone elses sight.

 

Unfortunately... I was in plane view of the most important people in my life.... my DW and kids!

 

I can't express enough how important it is to mantain your centre! I lost mine.... and may end up ultimately lossing all I hold dearest.

 

If anything I have learned/am learning from this experience is.... Stand up tall... "man up" (thanks Gunny).... learn form my mistakes, and allow others to help, and take advise about that which I know nothing about.

 

I truely have learned that my experience in long term relationships has been a revolving cycle. All is great at first (naturally) then as I get comfortable (suicide) I became complacent. Stopped doing the little things... and eventually the relationship falls apart.

 

Well with my DW, I also had the issue of not being emotionally available. (damn!!) I was there all the time...but I could not show it. This I understand ...now

 

I have/ feel I have come such a long way...this journey of discovery. I like it in a twisted way. Although I feel I am dying inside at times... I also feel reborn... I have new insight about myself.. relationships and that if you are in a good one....(HOLD ON TO IT WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT) pay attention to the little details...and let your (SO) know you love them....BUT stay centred (BE YOURSELF)!!

 

I don't know where I will be in 6 months or a year.... but what I do know is..... I will not only be back to my old (GOOD) self... I will be me (5.0) upgrade. Now that I have a clue what I have been doing wrong with myself for so long.

 

If my DW and I never get back together and I decide to ever bother to get into another relationship....she will be a lucky lady...because I bothered to find out who I am... I am finally figuring out my self worth... and I am feeling more like a MILLION BUCKS ( Canadian Funds... almost on par with the Green Back )

 

I guess this post is a little more positive 'Eh'?? ( a little canadianism;) )

 

Anyway....

 

Take care all.... I'll keep posting as I go down this river (LS is my life jacket)

 

ilmw

[Becoming]

Dear ILMW--Go ahead a fall apart and die sometimes. It's part of being reborn.

 

And it'll all be ok. Whatever happens, it'll be ok because you're ok.

[Gunny376]

to Manhood. You're empowered! You're to the point, where it just dosen't matter! To where it matters not what your wife does or doesn't do anything! To where you do what you must! You do what is honorable! You do what is righteous! You do what is righteous by your children~ no matter the cost! You do what is right! Because its the right thing to do!

 

You say, "I will stand here, and I will stand this WALL! I will NOT falter, for I have drawn a line in the sand! This is who and what I am, and I am prefecatlly willing to die for it!"

 

 

More important than your wife? Is your honor, your integrity! Your honsety! Not to me? Nor to others? But, to yourself!

[paperdoll]

Something tells me your going to make it though this and come out just fine. You have a good head on your shoulders. You have a beautiful heart don't let anything take that away from you.

[ilmw]

Thx Becoming Gunny and Paperdoll,

 

Your words help alot...

 

We may have a possible offer on the house.. find out tonight...ahhhhh!

 

I acted all postive....but Oh my GOD! It hurt so MUCH.

 

I am standing tall ... and I feel it easier to recover now...(much faster)

 

Well I guess once the house sells.. I can move forward.. right now.. I feel in limbo. I am still on plan 'A". Doing what I think is the right stuff with my DW's (EN).

 

I think when she moves with the kids.... she is going to find she WILL miss me.... if only on the grounds that all the stuff I have been doing around the house with the kids and the dogs. Who knows eh??

 

Funny thing is she seems to want her independance back....but still asks me my opinion?? Old habit or conection....not gonna worry about it.

 

Anyway... I'm at work now... and I better get back to it.

[Becoming]

If she wants her independence, give it to her. Go minimal contact, meaning no contact for anything not related to house and kids and cleaning up mutual life so you can go forward.

[ilmw]

Hi again,

 

Thursday night my I was sitting on the back deck. My DW comes out with a couple of beers... and sits down. She started talking about little things .. then she started to talk about the sale of the house.

 

We talked for awile.... about this and that.. We had about 3 more beers. She seemed to get sader the longer we talked . During this time she told me this was one of the sadist days of her life (selling the house) She went on to tell me she did not know where she would be in 6 months to a year.... She can only worry about selling the house and making sure our boys get settled in the new house.

 

A lot of stuff she was saying was said before. Which I kidda expected. But she also spoke about...well let me put it this way... I had pointed out that the guy she had fallen out of love with....has left. That I felt better about myself....better than I have for along time. (Actually better than I have felt deep down for my entire adult life)

 

My DW said she has seen the changes.... and when I mentioned GOD... and how I now think there is something to all this higher being stuff.... her jaw dropped a little...she said "I never thought I would hear that coming from your mouth" (my DW has always believed in God...I had not) I reminded her gently that I have been through some significant changes.

 

On several occasions she became a little weepy. Then her face would become hard again (looking determined)

IShe appeared to shack of the sadness....but I think because of having the beer... her gaurd was down. She opened up... She told me she was sorry this was happening... that she knew this was hurting me as she can see the pain in my eyes. I try and hide that, but when I look at our boys or her some times... the pain is very intense (more like an overwhelming sadness).

 

She said stuff... like there is not other motivation for this happening than what she has told me (meaning there is no one else...no one on the side lines waiting..etc) I actually belived her.... she was so open and truthful....

 

She went on to mention that she did not expect me to wait around for her to come back...but she was not very convincing ....this where I started to get confused... I can't remember how she actually said it...but it was kindda like this.... I know you could date and find another woman....I don't know if that is what you want...you would be a good catch.... I have no intention of seeing anyone....there was more but...I can only remember how I felt than what was actually said....I was a little overwhelmed....

 

The general feeling was....this is not over....but she is fighting it right now... She has to do this for herself. (DW has said on several occasions that she knows this is going to be hard on the kids...but she has to do this) She has never downplayed any of this.

 

Anyway... I felt some hope there.... eventhough the conversation was stressful.... I was relaxed.... I was there for her to speak... All in all it was a revealing conversation....and it truely demonstrated the conflict my DW is in....

 

(Oh I forgot...earlier that day we went to the movies..DW Son and DW's niece... (Dead man's chest - Pirates) Good film...

 

The next day my DW askes me...if I still wantd to go to the beach .. i said of cours... it will be fun.... so we and the boys, sons buddy, and DW's niece went to Wasaga Beach....(Ontario types should know where that is) It was a lot of fun.... I showed my DW I could be silly... I was throwing the kids in the water... (mainly because 3 of them were trying to dunk me... they only got me one time:p It was great

 

Well we get home and a little while later I BBQ some steaks my DW had bought earlier.... She never buys steak? We had a great dinner (Thanks Food Network!) I could not cook a hot dog properly until I started watching the shows on the channel:p

 

Well later... my wife was going out with some of her work friends.... one of them is heading away for a couple of weeks and has not been around much for the past 2 months...etc... (this sounds strange ,.... but I know the guy and his girlfriend) anyway it was prearranged a couple of days prior. (I sound like I am trying to convince people my DW is not cheating on me:confused:

 

Anyway....She had a shower...she then came halfway down the stairs and asked me if I did not mind putting some aftersun cream on her back.... She had gotten to much sun... mild sun burn. I go up to the bedroom and she is sat on the bed facing away from the door with a pillow over her chest and a towel wapped around her waist. She then pulled up her hair as I slowly rubbed the cream into her skin... I messaged it into her skin very gently as she was burnt... (Ahhhhh.... it was hell.... and heaven at the same time) I was soothing in my tone of voice.... She even had burns on her hips below the panty line I told her this and proceeded to work in the cream. What confused me...and I don't think she would do anyting to try and drive me crazy is..... If someone want's nothing to do with you (romantic) why on hell would they ask and allow you to touch them so intimately. I will tell you... I was aroused for the first time since April... I'm not sure if she noticed, but I think she may...it was sort of obvious (I was still in my swim shorts.... I felt a little embarsed. Like you do on a first date??!

 

Even though that was confusing.... maybe it hurt a little because for the desire I still have for my DW....it was heaven while I did it.... and after I was sitting on the back deck and I begain to smile... because that may have been the last time I touch her...and it will always be a good memory.

 

I know she may never come back to me.... but at this point she will only have good memories..... I have been nothing but a supportive carring and loving (man) since I got my head screwed on right...

 

Oh well..... thats my life at this point

 

Take care all

 

ilmw

[Ladyjane14]

Her words may sound sad.... but her action is still selling the house and moving away from you. THAT's what you need to focus on. When her actions meet her words, then you know you're hearing the unvarnished truth.

 

It's a sad thing to change your life and to leave your spouse behind. I know a woman who's in the process of getting a divorce because her husband was unfaithful. She's 100% committed to getting that divorce and she has no intention whatsoever of entertaining any thought toward reconciliation. Still, she is sad about it.

 

I don't think you should change how you're handling your situation. You're doing a good job. I just want you to know that the sadness is normal, and it's not necessarily something to raise your hopes on.

 

Keep putting your best foot forward for awhile, and wait to see what she does in the future rather than what she says.

[Spurned]

I'd have to agree that you should focus on what your partner is DOING, and not about she says.

 

In my own breakup I beat myself up over what my ex-wife said, or what her facial expressions meant, or why she did this, or what did she mean by that, or did I detect some wistful lilt to her voice here. BUT THAT IS NOT WORTH IT. It will just drive you crazy. Quite honestly, you will probably end up thinking there's hope when there is none.

[ilmw]

Thx for the advise,

 

I know sometimes on one post I sound strong, then on another... I sound all confused. I went back and read through this thread.

 

I would like everyone who has taken the time to give me advised and guidance through what is by far the most stressful and upsetting time of my entire life.

 

I do listen and have followed a lot of what had been said... also from what I have read in several books regading relationships etc....

 

Marriage Builders has also given me some good pointers as well... One of my initial searches in the NET.

 

I fell I have done all I can do..... and have maintained a consistant pattern.... I have been nothing but carrying and understanding... I am not burning any bridges with her....

 

I also understand that I should not read into what she says or does.....

 

This is all easy to read... but we all know it is harder to practise. But I am getting better.... Having found my centre.. (myself) and losing my neediness for my DW... has been a (trip)

 

As for an update... The house is sold. Move out date August 24. I am then going to stay with a friend from work until I get my own apartment.

 

What I am truly finding hard is hiding my hurt from my DW. She can see it in my eyes... I do my best (I can do better) and I have been doing much better.

 

What I think is my problem is.....(I still feel there is a chance that in the future we will get back together) Now.... I know I can't dwell on this... but I still have some hope left.

 

Now I know some people reading this will not agree with this BUT....

Our anniversary is coming up in August... I had planned a long time ago to have a pencil drawing done of my DW from a photo. I had also writen a poem for it...(Not all mushy ...but nice) It is done and being professionaly framed with the photo and the poem. From what I have seen it will look fantastic. I do not expect anything from this... It is something I have wanted to do for alongtime... but could not find the right photo. This is more for me... In a way, guess a good bye present?? I am just going to leave it in the room when she is asleep then I will be scarce the next day. So that she won't have to feel she has to thank me. I just want her to have it.

 

Some may say this is not a good idea... but I don't care. I have never realy done anything like this for her... and it is a token of my love.

 

Other than that... I am doing much better than I would have ever expected.

 

I think in the fall I am going to do a ROAD TRIP. Thinking of heading west to Vancouver to see my Big Bro... then head south to california and then via Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon...then back to Ontario. Long drive... but I think it might be (good medicine) Have to see if I can get the time off..

 

Just curious but Never been to the west coast of the States... is it worth driving along the coast or what?? (This is just an idea I have had for many years... but never had the chance or time to do.

 

Travel tips would be nice;)

 

Well thanks again all... I hope you are all doing well and are happy (I would never have written that 4 months ago (Wow)

 

ilmw

[michelangelo]

Heck ya!

 

I live in California and I never tire of getting my fog and redwoods fix.

 

The stretch from The Oregon border to Eureka is particularly stellar. If you get a chance, hike from Prairie Creek State Park down into Fern Canyon in Redwood National Park near Orick.

 

Then further south, before you hit Monterey, stop at Gizditch Ranch in Watsonville and have the a swig of the best apple juice you'll ever drink. Then drive into Moss Landing and eat seafood at Phil's Seafood. The crab stuffed artichoke is awesome.

 

And if you go to Big Sur south of Carmel, save time to watch the sea lions in san simeon right next to the road.

 

I've left off talking about the obvious, san francisco, etc. To me, the best thing about a coast drive is the natural splendor you'll find.

 

And that's just California's northerrn half.

 

Go for it!

[Gunny376]

Just as long as you get busy moving forward in your life and get busy living it. Live's too short to do otherwise.

 

There's nothing that you can do about the DW ~ she's where she's at in her life ~ and for the time being has chossen not to share that live with you and you've got to accept that ~ and you have. The source all un-happiness in life lies in the refusal to accept what is.

 

I know you're working at it daily ~ sometimes by the second ~ and its hard ~ all day hard. I know ~ I've lived it. But, its not only "do-able" its liveable.

 

And, its hard to get it wrapped around your head ~ that less is more. That letting go is gaining.

 

The road trip sounds like a really good idea ~ gives you the time and space to think adn clear your head ~ and obtain a new "vision" of and for your life. One that does not include what was once was. It would be an opportunit for you to do some mental and emotinal cleansing of your heart, mind, body and soul. Getting back in touch with nature is always a great way to do that ~ a sort of purificiation.

 

I llike the idea about the picture ~ its closue ~ its acceptance. Its that and so much more ~ very nice touch. Departing with class. A class act. It shows you've got self respect and diginity. It shows that no matter how much this is tearing you up ~ you're going to "man up" and accept the fate that life and your wife have lain before you ~ What would make it even better ~ would be if you could go on the road trip the same day. But, alas time is not always our friend.

 

I wish you and yours well ~ my friend

 

Guns

[Gunny376]

One of the things I've been told about the Corporate world was to "Quit trying to figure out what the "suits" are up to ~ you'll drive yourself crazy.

 

Same thing here, you sit around trying to "reverse engineer ~ analysis to the point of paralysis ~ you'll be sitting around straring at the ceilings and walls for the rest of your life my friend. You sit around digging up bones, the men in the white medical suits are going to come and carry you away to some dark and lonely place.

 

It is what it is and nothing more.

 

For years I've sat around and beat myself up ~ bad over my divorce only to come to the realiztation that my XW is and can be very selfsih, stubborn, hard-headed, mean-spirited, thinks and considers no-one else's feelings but herself. I was so in love with her ~ that I couldn't see the forrest for the trees, nor the trees for the forrest. It took me a long time to realize that you can absolutely be in love with the very person who is the worse person for you.

 

This whole dating and mating business is screwed up from the get-go. Un-beknowingly ~ most men learned or are lead to belive that women have the supply and men have the demand ~ but after high school ~ that all pretty much changes. Factoring in how many men screw up and make a mess of thier lives through just drugs, crime, prison, alcohol, divorce, serial monogomy, etc. Its hard for a woman to find a good man who's got his act together ~ whose ex-wifes's taking everything worth stealing, and who's getting child support ~ allimony.

 

Its been a long time in coming ~ and its taken me a long time to come to realize that I've personally have a lot to bring to a relationship ~ and to most women. And, that they personally have very little to offer me? But, yet they're still are playing the game as though we were still back in high school ~ and they're still in demand, and I as a man am the one that is seeking them.

 

Your wife has yet to comprehend and understand that finding a good man whose is going to love and treat her and your children the want that she needs is a very rare commodity (I'm not trying to give you false hope here)

 

I know .........................now what it takes to possibly make a LTR ~ marriage work, its all very much stituational. The dymanics of it changes from day to day. Its fluid and living thing ~ which very much requires nurturing and tending to ~ daily ~ and can never be taken for granted.

 

Its entirely possible that this is what the two of you have to go through ~ to take it to the next higher level. Sometimes you've got to lose what you've got to appreciate what you've had. Sometimes, you've got to go through something like this to realize that the Devil you know is better than the one that you don't know.

 

I didn't have the knowledge nor the skill set to be married when I was married at 22. I just didn't have it. Marriage is the one thing that we are totally un-prepared for and totally in-competent at ~ which we go into beleiving that we are totally prepared and competent at!

 

I've studied datings, mating, relationships, marriage, men and women, differences in gender experession and communication ~ and I still don't have all the necessary information. Anyone outside of non-academians who even purchase a book, or go on the internet and research it in depth are rare.

 

I

[ilmw]

Gunny....

Once again...you voice what I am thinking. To hear someone else say it (be on the same page) is helping me through this.

 

I know I am going to get through this.... the sooner the better. I know that my DW will regret her decision at some point... (Not to sound arogant) but... any woman who has broken up with me in the past has regreated it... and has come back... Reconcilaton... The thing is I would make all kinds of promises... of change. I would never follow through.. We would be back to the same old routine... and the relationship would end. I would move on... with some regrets at first.. but I would in the end see the light a realise that I was not happy with those woman... I always would end up with the Blonde Blue Eyed...type of high maintenance woman. (Stress city)

 

My DW was so not like my previous woman... she is shorter 5'4" athlectic red head (strawberry blonde) with deep brown eyes.. that smile. She was warm and giving and always enjoyed lifes simple things...but low maintenance.

 

Now.... I have figured out what has gone wrong with my marriage, and with me... I never truly did this in the past. I thought I was not worthy... etc etc.. and beat my self up until I got my game back.

 

I know I have changed... and am a much better... stronger man for this. I have done know what I should have done years ago. (Get my Sh*t together) I am able to focus on the right things and dump the other cr*p

 

I know I should not have false hope... The thing is ... this relationship even at its worst was far better than any LTR I have ever been in... I was just not able to focus on the right things as I have previously mentioned in a prior post (hypervigilance and my past unaddressed demons)

 

I have a plan for my life....Now. Self improvement.. learn something new every day... and love myself..(something I have not done in along time) Oh I liked me... but it was not enough to be the solid MAN I should have been for my DW.

 

The more I think about it the road trip is sounding better...

 

Gunny...... I have recieved the dating black book (Carlos Xuma) have not read it yet... Alpha Male was a good interesting read... lot of good points (not realy interested in dating anyone) but the other stuff... about being true to yourself... very powerful stuff. You hit the nail on the head when you advised to read it.

 

Thanks for the affirmation about the picture...for my DW. Thats exactly what I intend for it... closure. Our anniversary is (3 days) before the move...

 

Well... I better go get busy

 

Thx again bud...

 

ilmw

[ilmw]

quote=Gunny376

 

I know .........................now what it takes to possibly make a LTR ~ marriage work, its all very much stituational. The dymanics of it changes from day to day. Its fluid and living thing ~ which very much requires nurturing and tending to ~ daily ~ and can never be taken for granted.

 

 

l once heard that..... you have to treat a marriage like you are a gardener... tending your flowers.... watering them day to day pulling out weeds.... nurturing them... I never got it before...

 

(pig headed me..thought....I don't like flowers...they make me sneeze) Duuuh!

 

Now that I have done this 180'.. I finally see the tree in the forest... ( I get it )

 

ilmw

[Gunny376]

 

Gunny...... I have recieved the dating black book (Carlos Xuma) have not read it yet... Alpha Male was a good interesting read... lot of good points (not realy interested in dating anyone) but the other stuff... about being true to yourself... very powerful stuff. You hit the nail on the head when you advised to read it.

 

Thx again bud...

 

ilmw

 

The Dating Black Book build on "Alpha Male" and yes, he discuss dating, women, etc. but its really much more than just about that.

 

Its about getting your head out of your ass, getting your head and ass wired toghther, getting your life together ~ and keeping on top of yourself, your life, your wants, your needs, getting on top of your game and staying on top of your life ~ getting and being confortable about who and what you are as a man ~ regardless of what life throws at you developing and having the confidance to handle it.

 

The wife leaves and never comes back? I can deal with it! She comes back with it? I can deal with that as well ~ my personal self worth is not dependent upon the approval and validation of any one person ~ let a lone any one single woman ~ because I have the confidance to live my live to it fullest and to its top.

 

If you'll skip to the very last page, (just finsihed it yesterday) Carlos will tell you that all of the material he's presented isn't really just about dating and mating ~ and chasing skirt.

 

While I truly encourage you to read the books more than once until you've got "it" (its one of those kinds of books ~ that you discover something new ~ not from him ~ but from within yourself) and I don't normaly advocate skipping ~ I would encourage you to go to Appendix I and make a copy of it and carry it around with you and read it as you go throughout the day. They're not affirmations ~ they're attitude adjustors ~ something I think you could use right now.

 

Guns

 

PS ~ Glad its helping you get your head together ~ that's the reason I recommended it to you. I promise you ~ you're not going to be ready for any dating for awhile to come ~ but in the meantime you can get your head together ~ and hone your game should that eventuality arise.

 

Personally, I think if your give your wife a lot of time and space ~ no wuss behavior, no whinning, no begging that things will come back around for you ~ but she's going to have to come to that conclusion on her own and in her own good time ~ any attempt on your part will only drive her further away ~ (read the book)

 

The Dating Black Book and Carlos clearly shows you what not to do if you want your wife back.

 

Now that you've got DBB, you can access the discussion fourmn. I'm Gunny376 there as well. I don't post ~ just lurking for now.

 

You might want to e-mail Carlos with your situation? He's pretty good about responding to all e-mails ~ even if it is a short answer. He likes to know that you've covered one of his books at least once ~ makes sense!

 

Good luck and hang in there ~ no matter what happens ~ its going to be alright!

 

Guns