What do I do now?

[tonyp56]

Hello, I've hit a snag in my divorce, and I really don't know what to do, and I am needing some advice. I live in Oklahoma, in case someone needs that. Anyways, I am the one that went and got an attorney, and filed for divorce (long story, she left for another man in September, said she had an attorney in February, but never heard anything back, and then she told me on the 27th day of being late that she was late making van payment that was in both of our names, and that she was thinking of letting go back, so I borrowed money to pay retainer and got stuff going). My soon to be ex and I had talked about joint-legal-custody, with her being the custodial parent, or the parent with physical custody and me with visitation. We had discussed the kids being with me 150 nights per year, and the rest with her. Anyways, she, without telling me answered the paper she was served saying she agreed with everything except she wanted sole-custody.

 

I don't even want to begin to say how much this bothers me. I feel like I don't exist. I feel like I am no longer the father of my three kids. I have loved and cared for them since the day that they all were born. I more or less feel like a baby-sitter. I went from being with my kids everyday and night to being with them on the weekends, and I don't like it.

 

Anyways, at the same time of this being a let down, I also don't want to drag out the divorce any more than I have to. I want to make it as easy on my kids as possible and I can't afford to fight that much. My STBX says that she will give me legal rights, and that I have to trust her. But she will not say what she thinks she will gain by getting sole-custody, so I don't know what her true motive is. Why would joint-legal custody be so far out of the question if she is willing to give me legal rights? It doesn't change the amount of child support I have to pay, it doesn't change visitation rights, etc... What I have against it, is this gives her something to hang over my head. If I want legal say, then I have to do this and that, or not do this or that. And in the end if she wants, she can leave the state, country, whatever she wants, with very little of a legal avenue for me to stop her.

 

Then, if she gets sole-custody, then what am I? Yes, I am the biological father, but what good does that do me? It isn't because I want to step on her toes or anything, I just don't want to give up my legal rights for our children, for the children that I love with all my heart. I feel that like her, I have a right to participate in the decision making process for anything that effects our children. If she gets sole-custody, am I not giving up most of my parental rights? Yes, I still get to see my kids, but what if she decides to move 500, 1000, 2000, ... miles away so that I can't afford to go see my kids, and then I've lost all of my rights, because I first gave up my legal rights.

 

Anyways, I need help. Do I fight for it, or am I over reacting? Do I spend the money and time, and drag this divorce out? Or do I just agree with her and get it done?

 

As far as trusting her, how can I, and if I do now, that isn't a 100% guarantee 5, 10, and even 15 years from now she won't use the fact she has ALL legal rights against me.

 

Monday, the family court ordered me to pay her over half of my bring home pay in child support. Considering, I make about $1,200 a month bring home, that only leaves me $580 or so to buy food, pay ALL of our marital debt (about $770 a month between house and van, not to mention utilities), buy gas, etc... I don't have a problem paying child support, I want to, but how am I supposed to live (and I have the kids every weekend, but they couldn't set my visitations at anything above 0 because I haven't been ordered visitations, that is why it is so much, but still isn't fair)? Let alone fight for legal say in my children's lives. Right now, with an uncontested no fault divorce I've got to live with that for at least two more months, if I fight, god knows how long it will take.

 

Any help, opinions welcomed.

[Gunny376]

Hello, I've hit a snag in my divorce, and I really don't know what to do, and I am needing some advice. I live in Oklahoma, in case someone needs that. Anyways, I am the one that went and got an attorney, and filed for divorce (long story, she left for another man in September, said she had an attorney in February, but never heard anything back, and then she told me on the 27th day of being late that she was late making van payment that was in both of our names, and that she was thinking of letting go back, so I borrowed money to pay retainer and got stuff going). My soon to be ex and I had talked about joint-legal-custody, with her being the custodial parent, or the parent with physical custody and me with visitation. We had discussed the kids being with me 150 nights per year, and the rest with her. Anyways, she, without telling me answered the paper she was served saying she agreed with everything except she wanted sole-custody.

 

I don't even want to begin to say how much this bothers me. I feel like I don't exist. I feel like I am no longer the father of my three kids. I have loved and cared for them since the day that they all were born. I more or less feel like a baby-sitter. I went from being with my kids everyday and night to being with them on the weekends, and I don't like it.

 

Anyways, at the same time of this being a let down, I also don't want to drag out the divorce any more than I have to. I want to make it as easy on my kids as possible and I can't afford to fight that much. My STBX says that she will give me legal rights, and that I have to trust her. But she will not say what she thinks she will gain by getting sole-custody, so I don't know what her true motive is. Why would joint-legal custody be so far out of the question if she is willing to give me legal rights? It doesn't change the amount of child support I have to pay, it doesn't change visitation rights, etc... What I have against it, is this gives her something to hang over my head. If I want legal say, then I have to do this and that, or not do this or that. And in the end if she wants, she can leave the state, country, whatever she wants, with very little of a legal avenue for me to stop her.

 

Then, if she gets sole-custody, then what am I? Yes, I am the biological father, but what good does that do me? It isn't because I want to step on her toes or anything, I just don't want to give up my legal rights for our children, for the children that I love with all my heart. I feel that like her, I have a right to participate in the decision making process for anything that effects our children. If she gets sole-custody, am I not giving up most of my parental rights? Yes, I still get to see my kids, but what if she decides to move 500, 1000, 2000, ... miles away so that I can't afford to go see my kids, and then I've lost all of my rights, because I first gave up my legal rights.

 

Anyways, I need help. Do I fight for it, or am I over reacting? Do I spend the money and time, and drag this divorce out? Or do I just agree with her and get it done?

 

As far as trusting her, how can I, and if I do now, that isn't a 100% guarantee 5, 10, and even 15 years from now she won't use the fact she has ALL legal rights against me.

 

Monday, the family court ordered me to pay her over half of my bring home pay in child support. Considering, I make about $1,200 a month bring home, that only leaves me $580 or so to buy food, pay ALL of our marital debt (about $770 a month between house and van, not to mention utilities), buy gas, etc... I don't have a problem paying child support, I want to, but how am I supposed to live (and I have the kids every weekend, but they couldn't set my visitations at anything above 0 because I haven't been ordered visitations, that is why it is so much, but still isn't fair)? Let alone fight for legal say in my children's lives. Right now, with an uncontested no fault divorce I've got to live with that for at least two more months, if I fight, god knows how long it will take.

 

Any help, opinions welcomed.

 

I don't understand how her having sole custody ~ forfiets your legal rights. In so far as her not been able to take the children out of state ~ that can be incorporated into the divorce decree, to prevent her from doing so without your consent.

 

The angle that she's probally working for is so that she can claim the children for income tax purposes ~ which YOU should be claiming them since your child support is based upon PRE-TAXED incomce ~ but paid with AFTER TAXED income. So, the income tax deduction should go to you.

 

And, why is SHE not helping with the bills from the marriage ~ olther than its not convienant.

 

Speaking as a man ~ I would go for sole custody of the children ~ why not? I mean really ~ why not. Women are awarded custody of the children in 90% of the divorce cases ~ simply because they don't seek custody. But, in the 10% of the divorce cases where men do seek custody ~ they are awarded custdoy 90% of the time. But, in such cases ~ in-where the man is awarded custody ~ and the wife is required to pay child support ~ the wives do not pay court ordered child support ~ ninety percent of the time ~ again mainly because the men don't pursue it (I wrote a paper in college on the subject ~ is the reason that I know all of this)

 

So, what I would do ~ is YES ~ I would expend the time, effort, and energy to pursue getting sole custody of my children.

 

My EXW cheated on me ~ and is married to husband No. #3. He had sole custody of his 5 years old son that he had since he was born. In comes my ex-wife ~ and she persuades him not only to give up custody ~ but his parential rights to visitation ~ (so he doesn't have to pay child support) In short ~ he gave up custody ~ has never paid child support ~ and hasin't seen, heard from, had any contact with his one and only child ~ his son ~ for the last sixteen years!!!

 

As bad as things got during the marraige ~ the dirorce ~ 99.99% of the reason I HATE my ex-wife is all the crap that she's done to me SINCE the divorce. She has tried and tried to stick it to me ~ every which way possible. Calling my command in the Marines ~ over BS. Got the battalion Sergeant Major trying to jump all over me ~ (I jump back!) Lies about my not paying child support ~ even though I had canceled checks with her signature on the back of them. On and on and on!

 

My child support? Ha! The ex was buying a brand new car every two ~ three years. From 1991 through 2003 she went through no loess than EIGHT new cars! Not, used ~ NEW! Who the HELL can do that! Even single, retired out of the Marines, out of the child support and rearing business ~ a college degree ~ I CAN'T afford to trade in for a NEW car every two to three years~! The car that I have ~ I bought NEW ~ and it only has 15,000 miles on it ~ and it was NEW three years ago ~ and if things go the way I plan it, I'll be driving it ten years from now. The XW by the way is NOW running around in a 93 Toyota Corrola ~ the child support stopped three years ago.

 

Man up~! Flip the tables on her ~ get custody of your children!

[feelingsforbf]

Hey, I too live in Oklahoma tulsa for that matter. First unless I read this wrong she cant just have sole custody unless the judge grants her that, and you put a motion for joint. 2nd has the family court seen your paycheck stubs or W2 from last year? If not they may be going by what she says. Do you have a lawyer representing you? If you are in Tulsa I know of two great ones you can use for a reasonable price. Also even if you end up with just visitation Oklahoma law states that if the custodial parent wants to move out of state they have to give it to you in writing a at least 60 days before the move and you can object to the courts. I know alot about the tulsa county court system so if you happen to be in the area let me know and ill send you my email and give you all the info I can along with some great lawyers

[feelingsforbf]

Also on your legal rights the state of oklahoma will only let you give those up if the custodial parent is remarried and adoption has taken place. And honestly unless you want to get screwed with the oklahoma system you need to fight this and for sure have a lawyer representing you. Once the custody terms are set in a divorce it is very very hard to get them changed. I let my exhusband have joint custody cause I thought he would do the right thing as a father (not to mention he was threatening me if i didnt on taking everything just to scare me) but long story short he never took the kids when he had visitation everyother weekend one day during the week, plus as long as it was convienant for the both of us. In the year and a half he saw our kids after the divorce he kept them 2 times over the weekends and that was when he had new gf's and was taking them to their places while he ran around. Things got really bad threatening the kids and myself even broke into my house with a gun wanted to kill us. I ended up with a protective order on him but he didnt show so the judge thought for it to be fair they gave him supervised visits. It has been almost 2 full years since he has seen the kids(before the protective order) he has never once used the supervised visits, although I cant get him to pay child support either he has even spent 6 months in jail and fined for it, he still wont pay. But even after all that I still cant get the judges to give me sole custody. Im sorry for being so drawn out I just wanted you to realize how hard it is to get them to change things once its done. One judge once told my lawyer well she should have never agreed to joint custody in the first place. Well if they knew the kids and I were in danger they should realize I did anything I could to get out alive. Please please get a lawyer so you arent screwed. I beg that of you

[PSmith]

When I read your post I felt I had to write, since I was in a similar position 10 yrs ago.

 

If joint custody is the only sticking point, then let it go as long as you put protections for yourself in the divorce agreement.

 

I have joint custody, and I don't see where it would've made a difference in my situation. Anything my ex wanted to do that needed my approval she did without even informing me. Sometimes I didn't find out until after. So joint custody did not help me at all.

 

As an extreme example. If a doctor wants to preform an operation, and you disagree with the procedure. Your ex can bring your child down and get it done. No one checks / asks if there are any custody issues.

 

Here's a list (from my experience) of things to put into the divorce agreement. Please understand there may be more things you need / want to add.

 

1. Children can not reside more than 20 miles from your primary residence.

2. grant you access to all medical / school records

3. access to children during school hours. You may have to pick up a sick child

4. consultation and consent to all medical procedures.

5. you want to be informed of any parent / teacher conferences so you can attend

 

I would also ask for more visitation other than every other weekend. I have my kids every other weekend, 1 day a week, plus alternating holidays (there are 12), father's day, alternating spring & winter break, and 2 weeks in the summer.

 

Last year my ex wanted to move out of state, even though the agreement stated she could not. We went to court to fight it out. The judge took one look at all the time I spent with my kids and ruled that the ex could not relocate my kids.

 

Don't get too upset about the money. Like you after my divorce I was paying out 50% of my take home pay in child support and alimony. It gets better after time. The main thing is to be the best dad you can be for your kids.

 

Talk it over with your lawyer. Decide the relationship you want with your children and then put it in writing. Who cares whether they call it joint custody or not?

[Mz. Pixie]

You want to make sure you get things in the papers like splitting college and medical expenses and fees for sports or classes that they take. You don't want to end up paying for all of that!

 

She should also be required to keep life insurance on herself in a certain amount.

 

If you give her full custody she can make all the decisions and hold them from you. You would still have to take her to court to actually get your visitation enforced. That may happen either way, but if I were you I'd insist on joint custody.

[tonyp56]

feelingsforbf,

 

I live about 40 miles away from Tulsa, but I am in "Green Country":laugh:

 

On the pay stubs, I turned in ten weeks worth before the hearing (and they checked through my employer about my wages). The child support court is separate from my divorce case, DHS are the ones that took me to family court on child support, although my ex got my half of the 2005 tax return (

(about $2500 was my half), I paid $87 a month for 7 months for van inurance that she was driving, she was supposed to pay half of the utilities for the two different months because utilities were half hers--pay utilities in advance, therefor she moved out in September, the bills were for August, and about half of the bills the next month was hers too, all so that I could pay support for the children--I did not have a job then--to top it off, she stuck me with a $800 van payment 3 days before it was due, saying she couldn't afford it anymore. And I've had my children most every weekend (have to take a weekend off here and there so I can do chores that I can't do if they are here, no babysitter--which is one big reason why I am not pushing for sole custody myself), several nights during the week when they were sick, watched them when my ex went to dallas for 5 days, etc... I don't mind having my kids, I love em and really would prefer to have them everyday, but I just think this should count for something when figuring child support.

 

I'll say it, I make $293 or so every week after taxes (sometimes I am able to pull in a little over-time, but never been over $320), and with this order I am left with a little less than $125 a week. Take gas for car, food (for myself and my kids on the weekends, which doesn't come cheap), and I am not left with a whole lot more. Then I have electric, phone, water, insurance, etc. to pay too. I can't work more over time because I have my kids on the weekends, and even if I could, I'd have to report it and they'd take more $. Nor could I get a part time job, because I am supposed to report all income, which means they would take more then too.

 

I am going to go talk to my lawyer on Monday, and see what we can do, but I really don't think we can do anything before my divorce case is heard and visitation is set and hopefully child support is lowered--which should be in about two months.

 

The reason why I think her getting sole-custody would mean the end to my rights is because of things like this: Sole-custody "In this arrangement, one of the parties is awarded exclusive control of decisions regarding the children's welfare. This is usually accompanied by the right of reasonable visitation with the non-custodial parent. The term reasonable is obviously broad, flexible, and highly fact-dependent." (http://www.divorcenet.com/states/oklahoma/child_custody_and_visitation_in_oklahoma ) All I would get is "reasonable visitation", doesn't say anything about having any legal leg to stand on. She can choose what school, town, state, anything, the burden of proof is on my shoulders not hers. I would have to prove, that her moving would somehow hurt the children.

 

I know that she can't just up and move far away if she wants to if I object, but, the judge would be the one that would have to make the decision, and likely would say something like "too bad, your just the father who cares about you!" --more or less what the family court did, who cares if I can live or if I disagree. Sorry, but little down:(

 

Anyways, thanks for everyones ideas, I'll ask my lawyer about putting things that give me some rights in the divorce agreement if she gets sole custody. But I've got a lot of thinking to do, anyone is welcome to give their opinions. It helps to hear things that I might not have thought of.

 

In the end, I just want my kids to be in my life, I will pay child support, I'll do whatever it takes, but if I am just over reacting to her having sole custody, I'll let her have sole without a fight, just to save my children the heartache, not to mention time and money. And this is why I've came here, to find out if it is really worth the pain and cost, if I am wrong in what sole-custody means I want to figure it out before I spend the money fighting for joint custody when it really isn't worth the headache. So that is why I am here asking...

 

Thanks

[amaysngrace]

Well, there's a couple things I see wrong here. First, the car payment. She should be responsible for the car she is in possession of and you should be responsible for yours. Including payment, maintenance and insurance.

 

Secondly, the custody. She should have physical custody and will but definitely don't give up joint custody. If you share custody, your support payments will be less. In either event, you should maintain that you split the tax deduction with her. You should each claim one and alternate claiming the youngest each year.

 

The debt should be 50/50, as well as assets. You may consider asking for EVERYTHING, sole custody, her paying your legal fees, etc. in hopes that it will give you bargaining power. Heck, I'd even ask HER for support, just because you can if you share custody.

 

Fighting the agreement won't take forever as long as you are able to reach an agreement. But don't sacrifice what truly matters. This divorce agreement you will be getting is pretty much final and will carry through for years. Make sure your agreement is something you can live with.

 

Oh, BTW, if you have proof of her infidelity, you may request she obtain a life insurance policy naming the children beneficiaries and you as the trustee, due to her risky lifestyle.

 

The way I see it, all is fair in love and war! Good luck to you.

[Sup]

feelingsforbf,

 

I live about 40 miles away from Tulsa, but I am in "Green Country":laugh:

 

On the pay stubs, I turned in ten weeks worth before the hearing (and they checked through my employer about my wages). The child support court is separate from my divorce case, DHS are the ones that took me to family court on child support, although my ex got my half of the 2005 tax return (

(about $2500 was my half), I paid $87 a month for 7 months for van inurance that she was driving, she was supposed to pay half of the utilities for the two different months because utilities were half hers--pay utilities in advance, therefor she moved out in September, the bills were for August, and about half of the bills the next month was hers too, all so that I could pay support for the children--I did not have a job then--to top it off, she stuck me with a $800 van payment 3 days before it was due, saying she couldn't afford it anymore. And I've had my children most every weekend (have to take a weekend off here and there so I can do chores that I can't do if they are here, no babysitter--which is one big reason why I am not pushing for sole custody myself), several nights during the week when they were sick, watched them when my ex went to dallas for 5 days, etc... I don't mind having my kids, I love em and really would prefer to have them everyday, but I just think this should count for something when figuring child support.

 

I'll say it, I make $293 or so every week after taxes (sometimes I am able to pull in a little over-time, but never been over $320), and with this order I am left with a little less than $125 a week. Take gas for car, food (for myself and my kids on the weekends, which doesn't come cheap), and I am not left with a whole lot more. Then I have electric, phone, water, insurance, etc. to pay too. I can't work more over time because I have my kids on the weekends, and even if I could, I'd have to report it and they'd take more $. Nor could I get a part time job, because I am supposed to report all income, which means they would take more then too.

 

I am going to go talk to my lawyer on Monday, and see what we can do, but I really don't think we can do anything before my divorce case is heard and visitation is set and hopefully child support is lowered--which should be in about two months.

 

The reason why I think her getting sole-custody would mean the end to my rights is because of things like this: Sole-custody "In this arrangement, one of the parties is awarded exclusive control of decisions regarding the children's welfare. This is usually accompanied by the right of reasonable visitation with the non-custodial parent. The term reasonable is obviously broad, flexible, and highly fact-dependent." (http://www.divorcenet.com/states/oklahoma/child_custody_and_visitation_in_oklahoma ) All I would get is "reasonable visitation", doesn't say anything about having any legal leg to stand on. She can choose what school, town, state, anything, the burden of proof is on my shoulders not hers. I would have to prove, that her moving would somehow hurt the children.

 

I know that she can't just up and move far away if she wants to if I object, but, the judge would be the one that would have to make the decision, and likely would say something like "too bad, your just the father who cares about you!" --more or less what the family court did, who cares if I can live or if I disagree. Sorry, but little down:(

 

Anyways, thanks for everyones ideas, I'll ask my lawyer about putting things that give me some rights in the divorce agreement if she gets sole custody. But I've got a lot of thinking to do, anyone is welcome to give their opinions. It helps to hear things that I might not have thought of.

 

In the end, I just want my kids to be in my life, I will pay child support, I'll do whatever it takes, but if I am just over reacting to her having sole custody, I'll let her have sole without a fight, just to save my children the heartache, not to mention time and money. And this is why I've came here, to find out if it is really worth the pain and cost, if I am wrong in what sole-custody means I want to figure it out before I spend the money fighting for joint custody when it really isn't worth the headache. So that is why I am here asking...

 

Thanks

 

She's been messing you over BIG-TIME! I would go sole-custody, if I were you. She went to Dallas TX? You watched the kids? You need to bring up this stuff, about the bills, and the van, if it can be used. Also bring up ALL the time you spend with your kids, that DOES carry weight in court. What the heck is with NO-FAULT Divorce States, it's like they ARE violating Mens rights all over the place, if you do right you're screwed, if you do wrong, you're screwed. If you go for sole-custody, YOU can get child support, and hire a babysitter while you're at work. Don't you think she has this all planed out? Time to contest that State Law!

[SoleMate]

My STBX says that she will give me legal rights, and that I have to trust her.

That was the scariest statement of all. She does not give you rights, you already have them.

 

Tony, you need a lawyer. At least write down all your questions, ask around for a good solid family law attorney (tough but not attack-style), and pay for a 1 hour consultation. That will be about $200 and it is money well spent (even if you have to beg, borrow, or rummage sale to get it). You need serious, professional, accurate, Oklahoma-based advice ASAP!

 

Please be aware that your spouse can ask for ANYTHING she wants in her court filings. What she will eventually agree to, or what the judge will award her, is a different story. Typically, an attack lawyer will have her file for the moon, and work down from there. So PLEASE do not assume that you are losing your kids.

 

Here is how a custody decision is made:

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/oklahoma/child_custody_and_visitation_in_oklahoma

[tonyp56]

I should clarify, she gave me the van back. It was either take it back and try to pay for it, or ruin both of our credit for several years to come. I had to go and get it refinaced so that I could reduce the payment, so I could better afford it. This was before I was ordered to pay $587 a month in child support, along with $26 a month for back support, which I feel I don't owe because of what I've already given and paid for on her behalf. I also have a lawyer, that I have paid $900 for a retainer fee, and I have an opoinment to go in and talk to her on Monday (6-12-06). She filed divorce papers and everything was filled on or around 5-10-06, so I've got 90 days from that date before my case can be heard, let alone finished.

[tonyp56]

OK, I went and talked to my lawyer about this situation and her legal advice was pretty simple. She said, it wasn't really worth the headache to try to get Joint Custody, first of all, it doesn't change child-support, visitation, and in many ways, it doesn't give me that much in the three legal things that we would share decision making in. Medical, religion, and school, in Joint my ex would have to contact me, and my lawyer said likely if she isn't going to include me she isn't going to include me.

 

Anyways, she has to give me 60 days notice of any move more than 150 miles away, and I have the right to go to court to stop her. In joint or sole my case wouldn't be any better with one or the other. So after this I've decided to let my wife have sole without a fight.

 

The only other option is me trying to get sole custody, but I know I couldn't handle that. To begin the closes day-care is about 12 miles away in the opposite direction of my work, which honestly wouldn't be very easy to do.

 

Thank you everyone for your advice, it helped to have an idea of what others thought to help me make a decision. Though legal advice from my lawyer was what helped me finish making up my mind what I was going to do.

[Guest]

Hello Tony, I just went thru similar situation about 1 mo ago. Let me tell you something: do not think for a moment that u r over reacting, or that u can trust her, or think that the court will favor her completely, or even settle for less than having ur kids most time possible. You have a good chance of wining, unless ur are considered an unfit parent (alcohol abuse or drugs) You must get an attorney even if u go broke (in my case was not too expensive cuz I dint lick my wounds and acted decisevely) u'll have to testify in court anyways but HE'll watch ur back for legal loops (just in case u run off ur mouth). You should go for joint-physical custody. There are different arrangaments for that: 30 % - 70 % of time or 50 % 50 % depending on ur and HER working schedules. For instance if she works the kids will be with a baby sitter right? so what's the difference with u? Any how this will allow for u to have the kids more time and also lower your child support tremendously. In addition, she CAN NOT go anywhere out of jurisdiction (let alone out of state) with out ur written approval or court's order. You'll have equal saying in children's up bringing and enjoy ur time with them without her drama. I am telling you man, be strong for your kids, they need u. What she wants is not important as it is in the children's best interest and that is the right to have u two in their lives. Any ways, if you dont get joint physical for some odd reason the least u get is joint legal custody, if i am corrcet that's what u were talikng about. more tips: 1)file for custody before her. In other words bring her to court 2) Act cool and not bitter let her look bad in court. When she files for sole custody she is gonna look selfish and judges hate that, especially that she is already moved with some other guy.

I really hope all will be ok with u man. Remember the time to act is now or forever live regreting.