Waiting for the truth to set us free!

[trevty]

Hi everyone,

 

If you have not read it yet, http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t90007/ will help you understand what this thread is all about. For those of you who have been following along, here we go!

 

The past few days have seemed to be getting better and I have been encouraged as to where we are going. Although we have not shared our bed yet, we have been talking, joking about things and focusing on our oldest son's graduation from high school. Wife has not worked with me yet, but our schedule has kept that from happening and next week is not any better as far as that goes.

 

We are both going to our councelling appointment on Thursday and I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THERE!!!! Wife is having problems with the thought that he told me that we should be able to work thru this if we both want that. She doesn't understand how he would just say start telling the truth and things can get better.

 

The long version of that statement is when you feel stress and are thinking of doing things the old way, lying, take a moment before you speak and deside to be the new me and tell the truth, good or bad just tell the truth. This is a big step for me, but one I am excited to be making a part of me!

 

What I am getting from her is that, you married a "Black & White" person and I should have known it would be like this since I am, as she has started to put, a compulsive liar!

 

Each day has brought hints of where her thoughts are and what I am putting together from that is that in addition to the lying I did during our divorces and courtship, she is having a hard time understanding how she can get past the fact that she has watched me lie to people all around us and if I did it to them, then I have certainly been doing the same to her all along as well!

 

My wife says that she loves everything else about our lives, EVERYTHING, but can not see how she will EVER be able to forgive me for the person I have said here that I have been for my 39 years on this earth. I know changing will be the hardest thing I have ever done in my life, but it is a challenge I am looking forward to dealing with.

 

I can't figure out what I am suppost to be doing??? It feels like eggshells under my feet. Will a day to day disagreement push this over the edge? I don't want to change everything about me because then I am not me or the person she says she feel in love with, but then there is the fact that she doesn't feel like she knew everything about me then and how will she get thru that????

 

She is a strong willed women, one of the things I love about her, but with that has come the realization that she can not be wrong, ever, and if she can't be wrong then how does she forgive? And if she can't forgive, then how do we move forward and start our new beginning?

 

I am giving all I am to this, because I believe in us! I know she is trying so hard to understand and find her way thru this, but why can't she forgive me?

 

I do not want to know a future without her by my side. She makes everything about my life that much better. Am I wrong to think we should be able to move past this?

 

I am so sad! We see so many couples relationships die because of so many different reasons, I would have never thought ours would have a chance to die because I was not the whole man I should have been. I hope our appointment Thursday helps us find some of the anwsers we need to move on TOGETHER!

 

She means everything to me. If she can't forgive me, I will forever live a life knowing my lies and my past have taken the one true and wholesome relationship I have ever had!

 

Take care and God bless,

 

Trevty

[trevty]

I would have thought someone would have something to say!

[whichwayisup]

She is a strong willed women, one of the things I love about her, but with that has come the realization that she can not be wrong, ever, and if she can't be wrong then how does she forgive? And if she can't forgive, then how do we move forward and start our new beginning?

 

The thing is, if she is choosing NOT to forgive you and give you another chance to prove yourself, to show that you ARE trustworthy, then there isn't much you can do except wait for her to decide. Yeah, that sucks, but if you love her and want her in your life as your wife, you may have to wait.

 

OR

 

Just start living life for you. I'm not saying divorce or separate, but maybe if she feels like you're slipping away from her abit, that might scare her enough to react and WANT to fix things.

 

This is a frustrating situation, just readin that she won't bend and it seems her way it the ONLY way, must be quite hard for you to deal with.

 

Just wait and see how things go in the upcoming weeks. Baby steps...That's all you can do. And try not to be so hard on yourself. Gotta forgive yourself and move past it because if it's in your head, all the past stuff all the time, you give off that energy. If you change your ways of thinking/dealing with her, then it will throw HER off and make her think. (Hope that makes sense?)

 

Marriage counselling has to help and all you can do is give it your best. Don't put any time limits on anything right now, just take it day by day.

[trevty]

Thank you whichwayisup,

 

We have had a hellish morning. Both of us just really needing something to give us a break from the heartache. We both feel like this is a day to get away from each other and take a deep breathe.

 

What I do know is that she feels as though she loves me and trusts me with our kids, business, home, and everything, excpet her heart:( ! The realization that the only person, including family, that I have ever truely loved now finds me to be the person who has let her down the most gives me thoughts of self-hate:mad: . I should have been her everything as she has been mine, she deserves that.

 

I know that this is a day by day thing, but to have everything I see, hear and feel make me think of her and know that she is so hurt by me is unbearable. I fear the future for us and only want to know peace for her! I hope her heart can win this battle that she is waging on herself.

 

We have so many great things yet to happen, God willing she will feel the love in me to want to start a new beginning with me so we can live the life we should together!

 

Looking forward to any helpful words,

 

Trevty

[Mz. Pixie]

Why is it so hard for her to accept that you've lied during your courtship??

 

DID SHE NOT LIE????

 

To me, it seems like there is much more to this story than we're hearing because she lied just as you did during your courtship, didn't she???

 

Or was she telling her husband she was sleeping with you??

[trevty]

Hi all,

 

Today has been another hard day. I am starting to suffer from paranoia and it is not helping any of this right now. Everything that happens from the smallest thing to our conversations on the phone while I am working is giving me a twitch in my left eye and my stomach hasn't been right all day. I love her so much, but I feel like I am making things worse by being so uptight:confused: !

 

Yesterday was my little sister's 30th birthday and when I called to wish her a happy birthday we had the normal coversation about how everybody is doing, when she asked how my wife was, I broke down crying and began to tell her what had been going on, by the end of the conversation I had made my sister cry, on her birthday, what the hell is wrong with me???? I feel so lost! I have to call her back and try and reasure her everything is going to be ok, but just thinking about calling make me cry. I am not a person who cries about much, but this has beaten me down to something I neither want to be or ever thought I would become.

 

My wife and I had talked yesterday before I went to see a friend yesterday (I will get to that in a minute), At one point I asked what I thought to be a fair question considering how things are and that was "What about our business (in her name), our home, and everything else that you would group into that thought"? She said she had not thought about that and we kept talking about a variety of topics surrounding our relationship. What she told me this afternoon is that she thought I ment that I was going to make her get rid of our home:( ! I told that I would never make it so that we would have to make the children uncomfortable or put out, I love them so much and would never hurt them. It was just a question that given the state of mind I have been in, I thought of and desided to ask.

 

I have tears rolling down my face as I am typing this now because I don't want to lose my family any more then I want to lose her. Oh God, how did it get so bad:( :( ! I love her with every ounce of my being and just can't believe we are here, doing this. We have 3 days until our councelling session and I am praying it doesn't all fall apart before we get there. We are not fighting at all, but I feel like it is all slipping away. We have had some good talks on the phone today, but when we get face to face, we just can't keep a conversation going. I was listening to a Bon Jovi CD on the drive to work this morning and the song 'Always" was playing, I guess I never REALLY listened to the words until this morning and just fell apart by the end of the song. I really freaked the ladie at the toll booth out when I paid my fare.

 

Anyway, I went to my best friend's house yesterday to talk with him about everything. He and his wife were great!!! They had me stay for dinner and really did their best to pick me up. We talked about everything and sometimes really nothing, but felt great to have someone listen and care enough to give me a hug when I really needed it. You really don't realize how much close friends mean until you go thru these kind of things. They offered to help me whenever I need it in any way they can. Great people:D !

 

The bottom line is that I feel like a freak today. I am having a terrible time trying to cope. I keep telling myself, Day at a time, baby steps, be supportive, but my heart is breaking! I am so scared. I want so much to be her everything, but I can't even be myself right now. It's like walking in someone elses shoes, it just feels wrong!! I LOVE my life and have, as she has, devoted everything I am and have to us and our kids! How do you just switch gears from that and BE ALONE! I hope in the end of this, I don't have to know the anwser to that question.

 

My parents are coming Wednesday for our oldest son's graduation from high school and they have no idea what is going on (I begged my sister not to tell them). I don't know how I will do with that. It should be one of the proudest days as a parent and I can't even find myself thinking about it:( !

 

Any words of encouragment would help, God Bless,

 

Trevty

[whichwayisup]

Well, here's a hug from me...You need afew!

 

I think you and your wife need to 'not' talk about any issues for the next few days. Lighten it up, and have some fun. Joke around and if it's a hot day, why not have a family water fight? It just might be what you both need. And the kids too. I'm sure they're picking up on the intense energy in the house...

 

Don't worry so much about your sister right now. I'm sure under the circumstances she knows you didn't spill it on purpose...sometimes that just happens. Atleast she listened to you and was supportive - Just like your bestfriend and his wife. You're right, it is good to have such loving and supportive friends nearby when you're down and out.

 

As for the graduation of your son...That is when you (and your wife) have to pull it together and make the WHOLE day about him. Nothing else should matter...Make that a promise and tell your wife that it's a goal that BOTH of you need to do. Trust me, you'll manage fine, even if right now you can't see it happening. It's instinct.

 

Keep writing and hope you feel abit better.

[trevty]

Thank you Whichwayisup,

 

We are going to take the time until we going to councelling to just try and be a little more normal. I am hoping for the best:) !

 

Thank you again,

 

Trevty

[trevty]

Hi all,

 

Today has been a better day. Still very weird, but a better day. We haven't spent much time at all talking about any of this today. I am hoping that it gives her some of the time she needs to clear her head.

 

We talked last night until almost midnight and what I am getting from last night's talk is that she wanted me to be her rock. To have been the one who carried the load of the pressures from our lives together. She is having a hard time with the fact that she is the one who carried me thru my divorce and the issues that my ex-wife and my 12yo son have brought to the table. She also doesn't like that she played the heavy in getting to stop smoking pot and gambling (I don't do moderation very well).

 

We slept in the same bed for the first time in 2 weeks! I am not trying to read alot into it, she slept under the covers and I was on top of them. I was happy we did it no matter how it was. You don't think about the things you do day to day, until they are things you don't anymore. I miss the way she makes this little breathing noise when she sleeps, and it was nice to hear it again last night.

 

I am reading a book called "Tell me no lies" and it is good reading,but I am understanding more each day that the lying is just a part of the whole picture. I am not being the man she hoped I would be. I do all the everyday family things, work the business, and things like that, but she thought I was going to be a man that she is desiding I am not to her.

 

While we were talking last night she said she felt lost and out of control with herself and I replied like the movie "Groundhog Day" and she said right back "Exactly"!!!! How do you break that feeling, I can't and she feels the same too.

 

We have 2 days to go before we go to councelling and I am really hoping for some good things to come from that. I know we won't solve all our problems in an hour, but maybe we will find common ground that will give us the chance to move forward, I hope!

 

I have been trying to get her to post here with the thought that maybe she will convey her feelings in a way I am not and some of you may be able to help her too. It might help her as much as it does me.

 

That all for today. I was really hoping that more of you might throw your two cents in. I love that Whichwayisup has said so much, it helps alot to hear from an outside opinion.

 

Thanks and God Bless,

 

Trevty

[trevty]

This morning has been interesting! We went to work together for the first time in weeks. Big step for my wife, even she said it had been awhile since she had been in the work vehilce.

 

 

What I am figuring out is that, for me, the past does not equal the future. Everything starts from here. If we are both willing to stop pounding on ourselves about the things that are driving us crazy we might actually get someplace with this. Where someplace is remains to be seen, but I remain hopeful for the future.

 

Someone said to me today that they can't believe how close we are, he didn't know about what has been going on. But went on about how special it is that we work together and have blended our children into our ONE family. He ended it with saying that we are very lucky to have found each other. I believe that! You don't just make something as special as we have had, it has to be more then that.

 

Have to go, God Bless,

 

Trevty

[Becoming]

Hang in there, Trev! Have you checked out http://www.marriagebuilders.com? It's got helpful info on it.

 

It sounds to me like she may be actually wanting more intimacy from you than she thinks she can get because she can't trust you. She needs you to be reliable--i.e. tell the truth, do what you say you will, and that you are there for her.

 

Why has she moved closer to you lately? You don't give details. Do you hear what she's saying? Or are you just desperate that she stay with you, which means you're too wrapped up in yourself to relate to her?

 

I know that may sound harsh, and I don't mean it that way. It's actually hard to go out of ourselves and be open to another as an other--one who is really different--yet who wants to be loved as much as I do, though probably not in the same ways.

 

Marriage counselling can help. It really can. Especially if you're open and honest (even about the negative stuff).

 

My husband and I actually instituted a behavior modification system that helps us see what it is we do that the other likes and dislikes--it's a visual reminder of the love bank concept on marriagebuilders.com. When he does something I like, he gets so many marbles in his jar. When he does something that hurts, marbles go out of the jar. Same for my jar. It's like we're three years old. But it's helped us see how different we are in our needs and how what we do affects the relationship for good or ill--and what those things are, which we never really knew despite 25 years of marriage.

 

Sounds like you've just got a lot of past stuff to work out together, and that'll take time, patience, and commitment.

 

But you can do it.

[whichwayisup]

Good luck tomorrow! Be sure and give us an update on the MC session!

[trevty]

Hi to all!

 

I thought I'd give this a whirl (this is Trevty's wife typing this update). Also to,let you all know how our MC session went today. We went to our appointment today and I really didn't feel like we found any help in it. Actually, I was so mad and hurt that I think it made it worse! I'm not sure if it can be said that it was to soon or not to go but it felt like it! I got angry with Trevty and really hate myself for it. I am not an angry person! I hate what this feels like it has turned me into. By nature, I will do anything for anyone and would NEVER hurt anyone. My husband actually says I do to much for to many people. But anyway, I felt very angry and mad sitting in that session. I really feel like I didn't ask for these issues and I have put so much into this relationship that I don't deserve some of the things I have received in return. I actually said at one point that these issues are a crappy way for him to repay me for all that I have put into this. AUGH! I know how crappy that sounds but I have paid a high price for this relationship, and I would do it all over again, but I don't feel like he has put as much into it. As you know from his past posts, he has chosen the easy road when he shouldn't have and lied when it was convenient. The lying has left me not knowing which way is up and what was real or wasn't. Someone on another thread wrote a quote that went like this.... You know a thief will rob you, you know a murderer will hurt you but you never know where you stand with a liar. That phrase has stuck with me! It feels so true. I can't seem to find heads or tails and I'm not sure I ever will. It is really frightening! More so than that, I'm not sure if this doesn't work out with him and I, if I will ever be able to trust again. It has made me question my own feelings and instincts! Very very scary thought. So, after we left the meeting we talked about where we have been for the last few days. His use of Ground hog day really was perfect. At this point, I refuse to carry on this way. It just seems like we are beating each other up emotionally. I know that I am suffering and worry that our kids are too. Emotionally this has changed me. I don't want that for any of us. And the anger that I had with Trevty at the meeting scared me. I do not want to be that way with him. I decided that it would be best if we took a break from this for a while. He left about an hour after the meeting. I am so scared for both of us! Having him go ripped at my heart. But I need to be able to see things clearly and not feel like every moment is spent pounding our heads. That has not been good for either of us. He will be back tomorrow night for the weekend (his kids are coming). And I will be staying somewhere else. I hope I didn't make a mistake with this decision. I didn't know what else to do. For the first time tonight I feel like I have some peace! I miss him terribly but I don't feel like my head will explode. I think we both have things we need to work on individually to be able to be whole for each other. I hope we can both find that! I have way more to say but this is all I can do tonight!

 

Thank you all!

Trevty Wife

[Becoming]

TW--

 

I understand some of what you're saying--I've experienced some of it--and I know the anger that scares you as a result of feeling like you've put way more into the relationship than he has.

 

In my case, there was/is also a grief beneath the anger--a grief that is so deep that I was even more scared of facing for fear I'd fall into a pit of despair and never climb out of. I used anger to hide my fear behind and to help me keep going. When I was sick of "feeling like my head would explode" and quit participating in the vicious cycle of my marriage by withdrawing from it, I had to actually face the grief/hurt/sadness/fear that was underneath. He also had to confront what made him act the way he did. We each have undergone individual therapy (paid for by good insurance, thank God), and marriage counseling (which was out of pocket). Underneath all the drama, we found two scared little people, scared to death of rejection from the other. It was fear running the show, playing power games with one another.

And yes, though I was wronged, I played them, too--in an effort to control things so I didn't feel those deep scary feelings in me.

 

All of this is to give you some encouragement actually, tho it probably doesn't sound like that. Things will get worse before they get better. You'll actually have to feel all those scary feelings you've been running from/covering up by overdoing in the relationship (takes one to know one:o ). But it's only by facing the fear that you'll actually be able to work through it all. I think it's great that you actually got the anger out in a place that's designed to help you work through it.

 

I speak now after a year of intense work individually and as a couple, and I'm here to tell the tale--of how I thought it was all a crock at one point and how I was ready to call it all off for the good of all concerned. But I stayed in the process and now I see that marriage counselors work first with the emotionally strongest person in the couple, and like it or not, that's probably you. You may feel picked on, like the counselor is ignoring all his s*** that's caused the problems, etc., but we got around to confronting him and his behaviors, and he's finally seeing what he's done--to me (which he couldn't see because of my shield of anger), to us, to our family.

 

He has his own work to do that you can't control, much as you'd like in order to feel safe. Your job is to do what you need to do in order to be able to love sanely--however that needs to happen. Just stay in the process and trust love, not fear. When either of you starts acting out of fear, ignore it, or name that demon and exorcise it (metaphorically speaking, of course), and reasssure one another that there is no room for fear because you love one another and want your marriage to work.

 

It really comes down to that decision--do you want it to work or not? And are YOU willing to change your behavior in order to make that happen? Which means opening yourself up to be hurt again, yes. You may well decide you don't want this marriage because it's destructive. But if you're not willing to really open yourself up, marriage counseling won't work.

 

Changing partners will still leave you with the same problem--of learning how to open up and trust--not just another--but YOURSELF. Why not give it so much time (specified) to be open to change by committing to counseling and really doing the work you need to do instead of waiting for the counselor to change him, and then if you see no changes you can live with in him, you'll know you've given it your absolute best shot and can walk away with the strength to continue to be a loving trusting person.

 

The same goes for Trevty, too.

 

What I see here MAY BE two people trying to justify their own behavior to third parties, which may be a subtle way of gathering LS armies to fight against one another. And that way is madness for all concerned.

 

Rise above the pit of fear and despair and love. NO ONE can rescue you out of that pit, which is what I suspect both of you want the other to do. But no one can, no one except you and your Maker. This I have learned the hard way and wish to spare you the battle scars.

 

All the best with blessings to boot!

[Mz. Pixie]

Changing partners will still leave you with the same problem--of learning how to open up and trust--not just another--but YOURSELF. Why not give it so much time (specified) to be open to change by committing to counseling and really doing the work you need to do instead of waiting for the counselor to change him, and then if you see no changes you can live with in him, you'll know you've given it your absolute best shot and can walk away with the strength to continue to be a loving trusting person.

 

The same goes for Trevty, too.

 

What I see here MAY BE two people trying to justify their own behavior to third parties, which may be a subtle way of gathering LS armies to fight against one another. And that way is madness for all concerned.

 

 

Exactly Becoming!! You rock!

 

Whats at the bottom of this for me- TW- is that you have both lied. Early on in the relationship you both cheated and lied. So, why are his lies any worse than yours at this point?? Because he continued??

 

Also why is it that you've paid a higher price than he has for the relationship??

 

Here is what I think is going on- You're using your pain to justify leaving the marriage. You left the first one when it didn't work out- and had this man waiting in the wings. Now, you're having issues in this one and suddenly you're ready to pack it all in again.

 

Becoming is right when she said that you will experience the same problems no matter who you are with. Of course, I'm not talking about abuse or alcoholism but yeah- you're going to fight about money, and the kids, and household division of labor, and probably have different sex drives. BECAUSE THAT IS LIFE!!!

 

What about if you guys just started fresh?? Just agree to put everything to the past and start a new chapter? Both of you put your resentment and anger away and let him work on his issues with counseling. You work on yours because yeah, you have them.

 

This is both of your problems, not just his and I feel like he's taking an awful lot of blame in this situation- from himself and from you. When a marriage has problems, both people have ownership in it and until you sit back and come to terms with the fact that you have made mistakes too then you're not going to benefit from counseling.