Art_Critic Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I haven't heard you talk about retaining an attorney.. Where do you sit on this fence ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 All true. But I've been with her for 7 years and there's been no signs of something like this kicking off. I honestly feel like I'm going to vomit. I know, I know! Man, how I know ~! But, you've got to "man-up" Throw up! Sure! Go for it! And, when you're done ~ man up! If not for you ~ then your kids! Link to post Share on other sites
Author uksurfer Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 I haven't heard you talk about retaining an attorney.. Where do you sit on this fence ? We've both said that we'd try to work something out amicably without involving legal people, but she's blown that tonight. I'm making the appointment tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'd get a good sitter for the kids ~ and take you out and get you good and drunk! And, hey! Its alright to break down and have a good cry! It helps! Just DON'T get caught up in a cycle of getting drunk ~ becoming a drunk ~ and crying! There is most definately life after divorce. Guns Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'm making the appointment tomorrow. good.. Please go thru with it.. You don't have to play the big guns right now.. but you need to start getting things in order.. He who files the divorce controls the divorce..You will be in the drivers seat of your future.. IMO You will feel empowered.. it is somewhat a power game.. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 We've both said that we'd try to work something out amicably without involving legal people, but she's blown that tonight. I'm making the appointment tomorrow. Its hard ~ all day hard! Its a mother*******! It is! It sucks! But, you've got to do what you've got to do! Don't give up those kids! Put them in the bathroom, close and lock the door, and bar it with your body ~ but don't give up those kids! Link to post Share on other sites
Author uksurfer Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'd get a good sitter for the kids ~ and take you out and get you good and drunk! And, hey! Its alright to break down and have a good cry! It helps! Just DON'T get caught up in a cycle of getting drunk ~ becoming a drunk ~ and crying! There is most definately life after divorce. Guns Done enough drinking and enough crying the last few weeks. No time for that any more. Tonight has actually made me realise for the first time that she just ain't worth it. Right... 2am here. Bed. Catch you later. Link to post Share on other sites
Author uksurfer Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Its hard ~ all day hard! Its a mother*******! It is! It sucks! But, you've got to do what you've got to do! Don't give up those kids! Put them in the bathroom, close and lock the door, and bar it with your body ~ but don't give up those kids! Y'know, I don't think she really wants them anyway, to be honest. She's threatened to fight for them - lots of times - but when I say "go on then", she always backs down. For example, after what happened tonight, she texted me to say she's going to "report me and fight for the kids". Report me? For what? Being pissed that my wife is telling a 24 year old kid who she's never met that she loves him? Huh? Anyway, after telling me that she'll fight for the kids, she then goes on to say that she wants to see them on Saturday. Saturday? It's only Monday now. If she cares for them that much, what about the rest of the damned week? See what I mean? Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 good.. Please go thru with it.. You don't have to play the big guns right now.. but you need to start getting things in order.. He who files the divorce controls the divorce..You will be in the drivers seat of your future.. IMO You will feel empowered.. it is somewhat a power game.. Only a combat vet recognizes a combat vet! Only a combat vet can understand a combat vet! A combat vet speaks another language ~ a different language! That non-combat vets can never understand. AC and I ~ we've not just been in the s***, we've been up in IT! Been though it, over it, under it, and back again. Its all startegic, tactical, and logistics now ~ its all about positioning. You've GOT to get yourself in the position of power, control and the strongest position for negotation. Once the lawyers are in play ~ it gets "monkey~crazy" You've got to start here and now~ Today! Yesterday, wasn't soon enough! Recognize ~understand~comprehend - that you're walking a thin line! Don't be an azzhole, don't be mean, don't be cruel, don't be ugly ~ you're a better man than that. But, don't be a doormat, and don't be used and abused. PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN! And, the best parent for them ~ is you! Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Y'know, I don't think she really wants them anyway, to be honest. She's threatened to fight for them - lots of times - but when I say "go on then", she always backs down. For example, after what happened tonight, she texted me to say she's going to "report me and fight for the kids". Report me? For what? Being pissed that my wife is telling a 24 year old kid who she's never met that she loves him? Huh? Anyway, after telling me that she'll fight for the kids, she then goes on to say that she wants to see them on Saturday. Saturday? It's only Monday now. If she cares for them that much, what about the rest of the damned week? See what I mean? Forget her wants, her needs, her desires! Do what's right for the children! And, for you! "If" its convienant for you! "If" its convienant for the children "If" in their best interest "If" in their best welfare We'll see! Link to post Share on other sites
KnowHowLoveFeels Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 UKsurfer, Ok. I asked you whether you still loved her - after all this - and I'm quite surprised to hear that you are! Love makes you weak. It takes your ability to reason and plan for your future! You have to make yourself fall out of love with her - asap. That's your first mission. Remind yourself as often as necessary what she's done to you. Say it out loud even so that you can hear it for yourself! As for filing for divorce... I think this is a very individual decision. It will start a chain reaction and you have to be ready for the next steps: no contact with her - and be as brief and relevant as possible when you talk. Also, do not contact her - let her contact you. etc. and etc. Are you ready for ALL that?? Don't be intimidated by conflicts (because I sense that you are a person who avoids conflicts at all costs). Instead, think of the postives that you will gain by putting your foot down. It doesn't have to mean a divorce. But you have to let yourself live to the fullest, too. For example, if you are pining away for her, and you are rubbing her feet whenever she stays over... that is not living to the fullest!! (How about her giving you a BJ while you watch porn?? ) Plan B: Be tough and stay tough. Do not rub her feet again! Don't kiss her either. Be polite and callous. Make it very clear to her that it's either YOU or HIM. She cannot have both. If it is you that she wants, then she has to move back and start MC with you. If she still wants to 'find out'... then you stay on your firm feet and be as cold and unemotional as the stone! Got it? The way I see it... start with plan B... and set a deadline for yourself. After this date, you will file for divorce. JMO. Link to post Share on other sites
CryingCanuck Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I know how you feel BELIEVE ME I DO Now the last poster mentioned that you stop doing the nice things for her and that's correct but then mentions that you give her an ultimatum, I don;t agree. Tell her you're through with her crap plain and simple AND IF taht's an IF with caps written all over them, IF she ever gets her head back on straight, you will maybe entertain the :POSSIBILITY" of a reconsiliation but only after she has dealt with HER issues. It's so easy to get caught up in everything and be putty , I KNOW, anyway again bud, I'm so sorry for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Talk to a lawyer to get all your legal ducks in a row regarding custody, finances etc and then serve her with divorce papers. You have been more than patient enough with her and she has not given an inch. Trust me if you don't strike first now she will. Stop being nice and start standing up for you and your kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Crying Cunuck, NHLF, and my truth, and yours, and her's AND most of all God's there lies the truth~! The righteouse path! It is most imporatant that you don't make decisions that might make things absolute. Do that which is neccesary and prudent. Within the best interest of you and your children. Don't be a bastard, anymore than necessary. Negotiate from a position of strength. Be vigilant in keeping custody of the children ~ you've got a good strong case! See my thread that I posted ~ telling the tale. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 uksurfer - this is going to be the most vague - and maybe even wimpiest - of all the advice you are being given here, but amid all the metaphors about arming yourself and taking a stand and getting ready for battle and what DefCon level you are at.... The most important ones that get my attention are "winning custody" and "fight for the kids." Please remember that a custody "win" should not be a win for you or a win for your wife, but a win for the kids. The "fight" for your kids should be an endeavor - ideally joined by both you and your wife - to do what is best for your kids. I completely agree that you can, and should, still take a stand, circle your emotional wagons, lawyer up, and get ready for a possibly rough ride, but please keep your eye on the prize. The prize, when it comes to the kids, isn't what makes you feel like you won, or defeated her, or extracted revenge for the serious pain she is causing you. The prize will be a couple of kids who can get through this with a minimum of damage, and are supported in their loss. Make sure you keep your eye on that prize. If there's ever been a reason to "man up", there it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Author uksurfer Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Well, the sleep didn't happen. I think I've paced at least 15 miles round our ground floor in the last 4 hours. And yeah, you're right about the kids. But anyway you look at it, they're better off with me. She doesn't want them right now because they don't fit into this new lifestyle she's created for herself. Seriously, I've suggested 50-50 custody since the start and she's always backtracked and said things like "well, maybe you should have them more", and "what about if you have them 75%", "and well I'll just have them to stay over occasionally". Says it all to me. And me having them most of the time is better for everyone involved. Not least the kids themselves. Poor damned kids. I don't see how she just can't realise what the f*** she's doing, and how stupid, hurtful, sad, and pathetic it all is. I mean, she's never even met this kid and she's telling him she loves him. Arrrgh. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Poor damned kids. Well, yes and no. This will be a turbulent time no matter how it comes out, and a serious loss to them, even if both parents stay fully involved in their lives. But on the other hand, these kids have at least one parent who is present, capable, and loving, and watching out for their interests, and in the long run, we hope that is both parents. Some kids go through this getting batted around, being the "prize" between parents who just want to inflict damage, or their loss goes unsupported because "oh, kids are resilient." You are smarter and more caring than that, and for that reason, I have great hope for you, your kids, and the bond between you. I would not have wished this on my kids. Given the work I have done on myself and the energy I have put into my recovery, I believe that even a fraction of that energy put into our marriage could have ignited a whole renewed, intimate relationship, which would have been great (and much preferable) for all of us. Let me tell you this, though: I have no reservations feeling like I was a pretty good father before, but since all this happened, I have never felt such a bond with them, so fully "owned" my fatherhood. I'm still defining myself, rediscovering myself, as an individual, as a man, but an important component of that is "father", and I feel confident that my kids will continue to be supported through their development. I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back - I'm trying to give you a glimpse of the strength and peace that I believe you will find as time goes on. It may be way out there, it may not be even a pinprick of light at the end of the tunnel yet, but moving forward is how you will get there. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 uksurfer - this is going to be the most vague - and maybe even wimpiest - of all the advice you are being given here, but amid all the metaphors about arming yourself and taking a stand and getting ready for battle and what DefCon level you are at.... The most important ones that get my attention are "winning custody" and "fight for the kids." Please remember that a custody "win" should not be a win for you or a win for your wife, but a win for the kids. The "fight" for your kids should be an endeavor - ideally joined by both you and your wife - to do what is best for your kids. I completely agree that you can, and should, still take a stand, circle your emotional wagons, lawyer up, and get ready for a possibly rough ride, but please keep your eye on the prize. The prize, when it comes to the kids, isn't what makes you feel like you won, or defeated her, or extracted revenge for the serious pain she is causing you. The prize will be a couple of kids who can get through this with a minimum of damage, and are supported in their loss. Make sure you keep your eye on that prize. If there's ever been a reason to "man up", there it is. Here, within lies "Words of Wisdom benfiting contempation!" Ponderance if you would! Take Heed, my friend, take heed! Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Well, yes and no. This will be a turbulent time no matter how it comes out, and a serious loss to them, even if both parents stay fully involved in their lives. But on the other hand, these kids have at least one parent who is present, capable, and loving, and watching out for their interests, and in the long run, we hope that is both parents. Some kids go through this getting batted around, being the "prize" between parents who just want to inflict damage, or their loss goes unsupported because "oh, kids are resilient." You are smarter and more caring than that, and for that reason, I have great hope for you, your kids, and the bond between you. I would not have wished this on my kids. Given the work I have done on myself and the energy I have put into my recovery, I believe that even a fraction of that energy put into our marriage could have ignited a whole renewed, intimate relationship, which would have been great (and much preferable) for all of us. Let me tell you this, though: I have no reservations feeling like I was a pretty good father before, but since all this happened, I have never felt such a bond with them, so fully "owned" my fatherhood. I'm still defining myself, rediscovering myself, as an individual, as a man, but an important component of that is "father", and I feel confident that my kids will continue to be supported through their development. I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back - I'm trying to give you a glimpse of the strength and peace that I believe you will find as time goes on. It may be way out there, it may not be even a pinprick of light at the end of the tunnel yet, but moving forward is how you will get there. Much wisdom, here, there is, much wisdom indeed! Link to post Share on other sites
Author uksurfer Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Yeah, I'm already starting to feel that now, to be honest. And at least now I know why she has't been able to give anyone a reason why all this is happening - it's because she's embarrassed as f*** about the whole thing, and knows that anyone in their right mind would tell her to grow the f*** up and to stop being so stupid. Jeez. It's like she's become 21 again. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 UKsurfer, Ok. I asked you whether you still loved her - after all this - and I'm quite surprised to hear that you are! Love makes you weak. It takes your ability to reason and plan for your future! You have to make yourself fall out of love with her - asap. That's your first mission. Remind yourself as often as necessary what she's done to you. Say it out loud even so that you can hear it for yourself! As for filing for divorce... I think this is a very individual decision. It will start a chain reaction and you have to be ready for the next steps: no contact with her - and be as brief and relevant as possible when you talk. Also, do not contact her - let her contact you. etc. and etc. Are you ready for ALL that?? Don't be intimidated by conflicts (because I sense that you are a person who avoids conflicts at all costs). Instead, think of the postives that you will gain by putting your foot down. It doesn't have to mean a divorce. But you have to let yourself live to the fullest, too. For example, if you are pining away for her, and you are rubbing her feet whenever she stays over... that is not living to the fullest!! (How about her giving you a BJ while you watch porn?? ) Plan B: Be tough and stay tough. Do not rub her feet again! Don't kiss her either. Be polite and callous. Make it very clear to her that it's either YOU or HIM. She cannot have both. If it is you that she wants, then she has to move back and start MC with you. If she still wants to 'find out'... then you stay on your firm feet and be as cold and unemotional as the stone! Got it? The way I see it... start with plan B... and set a deadline for yourself. After this date, you will file for divorce. JMO. Time to "man-up" Link to post Share on other sites
dgiirl Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 He who files the divorce controls the divorce..You will be in the drivers seat of your future.. IMO This is so so true! Atleast it was for me. I waited 5 months for my exh to file the papers, atleast to come up with an initial draft of what he wants. 5 months i waited! My lawyer advised me to file, and thankfully I followed his advice, and my exh got served! He really didnt want to go to court, so he had no choice but to come to me and talk about the details of the divorce. Get a lawyer and listen to their advice. Like Trimmer said below, dont get into a war with your wife, noone wins that way, but at the same time, you need to protect yourself. God knows I wasnt thinking straight, and thank god I had family that advised me to get a lawyer and I found a good one. I hired him simply because when I talked to him over the phone, he didnt add fuel to the fire like so many others did, he wasnt aggressive, and actually calmed ME down, but at the same time he knew exactly what I could get and didnt let me get walked all over. He cost a few pennies, but definitely worth my sanity and health and I can walk away knowing I kept my dignity. I didnt take advantage of the situation, I simply took what was fair. Link to post Share on other sites
DesperateDad Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Hey uk, I'm so sorry to hear this. I have an idea of what you're going through and it really is like having your guts pulled right out of you. It's interesting, too, that you're more upset over her saying she 'loves' this guy than you are about her sneaking off to meet him. I can sympathize with this. Also, don't forget that what she's doing can't possibly end well for her. This relationship won't work out for her. It's that simple. This kid will definitely NOT be what she thinks he is and she will definitely NOT be what he thinks she is. All the fantasy will disappear like a pathetic little bubble popping. I really feel for you, man. Know that all of us out here are thinking of you and pulling for you. You're a good man and you'll come out on top. Link to post Share on other sites
Author uksurfer Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 It's interesting, too, that you're more upset over her saying she 'loves' this guy than you are about her sneaking off to meet him. I can sympathize with this. I don't know. I think I get hooked on the emotional stuff more than the physical stuff. And s***, that's the kind of stuff she was saying to me every day 6 weeks ago - and *should* still be saying. Also, don't forget that what she's doing can't possibly end well for her. This relationship won't work out for her. It's that simple. This kid will definitely NOT be what she thinks he is and she will definitely NOT be what he thinks she is. All the fantasy will disappear like a pathetic little bubble popping. Yeah, lots of people keep telling me this. I'm kinda hoping that her 24 year old student is actually a 58 year old greek taxi driver called George. Let's see how much she loves him then. I really feel for you, man. Know that all of us out here are thinking of you and pulling for you. You're a good man and you'll come out on top. Man, I feel a group hug coming on. Dgiirl - get over here!! Seriously, though, this is all just so surreal. I'm still waiting for some reality TV presenter to pop up and shout "Aha!! Gotcha!!!! Joke's on you, sunshine!". s***, I'd beat the living crap out of him if that happened. On live TV, too. Link to post Share on other sites
Sup Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I know I'm in the UK and the laws will be different, but what are your views on me winning full custody of the kids here? Facts - She works full time and is out of the house 8am - 6pm, refuses to give up her work, and can't afford to pay for childcare. - She has already moved out away from us into a rented room where she can't possibly have the kids to stay anyway. - I've been the 'primary carer' now for months - basically, I've done everything for the kids (schools/meals/bedtimes/etc) for a while now, because I run my own business and can fit my work around the kids. - She's being irresponsible in that she's running around telling 24 year old kids who she's never met that she loves them. Anyone got any views on this? Present this ALL to a Lawyer! See if it classifies as Abandonment on HER part. I don't know if this will help you in the UK, I dunno, but you gotta try. Find out about YOUR rights in this matter, and GET OUT OF THERE!!!!! Try to get SOLE custody, and if you can, child support. I wouldn't try to reconcile with her, she may also get or have STDs. Link to post Share on other sites
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