his wife is gone now

[RealityCheck]

Or sleep with another woman's husband.

 

 

 

But hey if none of us were insecure or jealous about another woman sleeping with our husband than we can rule the world... um, ok I see it now.

 

Totally missing the point here.....

 

You are so forgetting that it is the Husband that is looking NOT his wife!

 

When another woman comes down on the OW, what else is it!!!

 

Please explain! I'm all ears!

[grateful]

Totally missing the point here.....

 

You are so forgetting that it is the Husband that is looking NOT his wife!

 

When another woman comes down on the OW, what else is it!!!

 

Please explain! I'm all ears!

 

I already did and you are not listening. I think your attitude is cavalier and callous. I think both parties are responsible for the affair and so you, RealityCheck, are hurting another woman and a child for a convenience that is "the best of both worlds" to you but could be a contributing factor to years of therapy for that child later on.

 

When OW in here are struggling and having their hearts broken I really feel for them because I know how it is to feel like your heart is stronger than your head. I know what it is to be driven by lust and emotions and feel weak and do things that you know are bad for you, bad for others, but feel powerless to stop. That I can understand... we are human. But I can't comprehend, and have a hard time understanding why the other OW in here condone, such a cavalier attitude towards the whole situation - "ah well, screwing another woman's husband is working for me right now, no harm no foul."

[movinon05]

Wayward Spouse

 

 

 

 

I was referring to this:

 

 

Like I said, I'm willing to write him a note, but he isn't here. I did in no way say that I think he isn't responsible. In fact, I understand his responsibilty better than you think being that I am a WS. How is that "dumping" on the OW?

 

I don't need to write him a note. It isn't relevant IMO. And as I said, I do not advocate As. Yes, I was in one. But learned my lesson and try to help others. But I don't appreciate it when I address one thing and an assumption is made about how I feel about something else.

 

I am also of the belief that unless you "walk in my shoes", or you "walk on water", that you don't have a right to tell me how to live my life. And I am using the word "you" as a generality. I may not agree with everything RC says, but I will not be her judge about how she chooses to live her life. On top of that, I know too much about her and how wonderful she is.

 

I am glad you are able to rectify your own situation. And I wish you well.

[movinon05]

EWS--

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm gonna try my best to keep busy this weekend. I just miss him so much. I totally appreciate what you ladies do for me... I'm so grateful to have someone to confide in, even if we've never met face to face.

 

Babydoll, you're caught in the middle. Stay strong. I know you can do this.

 

((Hugs))

[grateful]

 

I am also of the belief that unless you "walk in my shoes", or you "walk on water", that you don't have a right to tell me how to live my life. And I am using the word "you" as a generality. I may not agree with everything RC says, but I will not be her judge about how she chooses to live her life. On top of that, I know too much about her and how wonderful she is.

 

I am glad you are able to rectify your own situation. And I wish you well.

 

I haven't told anyone how to live their lives. I've expressed my opinion that RC's stated position is callous and cavalier and that she, like any OW/OM, is also responsible for the affair (caveat: along with the MM, a point you assumed I "forgot" but I did no such thing) therefore she is a party to violating a marriage that involves a child.

 

Thanks for your well wishes.

[RealityCheck]

I already did and you are not listening. I think your attitude is cavalier and callous. I think both parties are responsible for the affair and so you, RealityCheck, are hurting another woman and a child for a convenience that is "the best of both worlds" to you but could be a contributing factor to years of therapy for that child later on.

 

When OW in here are struggling and having their hearts broken I really feel for them because I know how it is to feel like your heart is stronger than your head. I know what it is to be driven by lust and emotions and feel weak and do things that you know are bad for you, bad for others, but feel powerless to stop. That I can understand... we are human. But I can't comprehend, and have a hard time understanding why the other OW in here condone, such a cavalier attitude towards the whole situation - "ah well, screwing another woman's husband is working for me right now, no harm no foul."

 

Actually, listening is what I am good at!

 

Would it surprise you to know that I was a BS????

I never for one moment passed any blame on the OW. NEVER!!

I hurt like hell! You know why? Because I loved him!

I didn't know her to judge her! I didn't hurt because of her! I didn't know her story! I didn't know her as a person! NOTHING!

 

At the end of the day, my H was 100% to blame!

 

I wished them well and moved on. My children and I are much happier for it!

 

You don't know me! You can call me calus, and have a cavalier attitude all you like! I still do not hold myself responsible for my MM's marriage!

 

And further more, you don't know the entire situation on his behalf or mine!

[grateful]

I still do not hold myself responsible for my MM's marriage!

 

 

Now that would be an interesting topic for a thread. What responsibility does the OW/OM have for the affair? I'm not going to start it because you all are a tight bunch and one of you would get better responses than I would; but I will read it with interest if someone else starts it. I'd be curious to find out if all OW/OM think like you that it's 100% the responsibility of the WS.

 

Edited to add: I'm not trying to dump on the OW/OM. I know that WS's often if not mostly do the chasing. I know that many OW have been tricked by MM. I'm just intersted in knowing if you, once the affair has started by whatever means, feel like you have some responsibility for the affair, specifically in regards to how it is hurting the W and any children involved.

[movinon05]

I haven't told anyone how to live their lives. I've expressed my opinion that RC's stated position is callous and cavalier and that she, like any OW/OM, is also responsible for the affair (caveat: along with the MM, a point you assumed I "forgot" but I did no such thing) therefore she is a party to violating a marriage that involves a child.

 

Thanks for your well wishes.

 

No, you have not "told anyone how to live their lives." And my statement was regarding my "opinion" about how I choose to look at the world as a whole. In other words, don't judge me and I won't judge you.

 

But, you ARE judging her. And I disagree with ANYONE who judges ANYONE for what they do, (short of killing, robbing, molesting, etc.) I will reserve my right to disagree, and to agree to disagree, but I will not judge. That is me in a nutshell. And I will say again, and I have repeated this in other threads, unless you (anyone) walks on water, or have not walked in my shoes, you (anyone) have no right to JUDGE me (whoever).

[movinon05]

Now that would be an interesting topic for a thread. What responsibility does the OW/OM have for the affair? I'm not going to start it because you all are a tight bunch and one of you would get better responses than I would; but I will read it with interest if someone else starts it. I'd be curious to find out if all OW/OM think like you that it's 100% the responsibility of the WS.

 

Edited to add: I'm not trying to dump on the OW/OM. I know that WS's often if not mostly do the chasing. I know that many OW have been tricked by MM. I'm just intersted in knowing if you, once the affair has started by whatever means, feel like you have some responsibility for the affair, specifically in regards to how it is hurting the W and any children involved.

 

That is definitely a whole other thread.

[RealityCheck]

Now that would be an interesting topic for a thread. What responsibility does the OW/OM have for the affair? I'm not going to start it because you all are a tight bunch and one of you would get better responses than I would; but I will read it with interest if someone else starts it. I'd be curious to find out if all OW/OM think like you that it's 100% the responsibility of the WS.

 

Grateful....

 

I don't carry bad feelings for your response. Really!

 

I stand firm in my situation only because I have walked on both sides of the fence.

 

No bad feelings on my behalf.

 

I too, wish you well.

[RealityCheck]

That is definitely a whole other thread.

 

*laughing*

 

A thread! TRY A FREAKIN BOOK!!!

 

*LAUGHING*

[HolyCrapNotMe]

EWS

 

Keep strong girl! I understand how hard it can be. When I said I would have NC with "my" former MM, I had no idea that it can be really hard. What has helped me is coming here and getting the encouragement from others that I can. It's almost like taking a powershot every time I get weak to call him and get an explanation or see if maybe I just made some horrible mistake and he is what I thought he was...even if in my mind, I know he isn't. Maybe I can hang out with you guys this weekend

 

For the others!

 

Can't we all just get along? I didn't realize the opinions were so strong here. What is interesting is I can see both of your points. For EWS, Gratefuls original posts may have been the best support for where she is...trying to get away from a relationship that she wanted more from. Realitychecks comments seem to fit more for those who don't want anything serious from the relationship.

 

Who cares who's to blame? Does it matter? Isn't everyone involved hurting in some way whether it be the W/H, who is missing the full love of the other spouse, the child, that is missing the full love and attention of his/her daddy/mommy, the WS, who more than likely has some unresolved pain that is temporarily relieved in an affair, or the Other M/W who has unresolved pain in the past that would make them feel that a "surface" relationship is safer than waiting for a deeper relationship that can be fulfulling on all levels but may not come in their lifetime (I hope not! But I am willing to take the risk and wait!)

 

What I love about this site is that we are free to share, in anonymity, our true feelings and there will be someone that can relate and provide helpful support for where we are trying to go. I would never in a million years admit to my friends or family that it is a struggle to have NC with that man. I miss his company, as fake as it was... I want a real relationship however and have come to a point that I will be miserable settling for what he has to offer.

 

Anyways, I hope that I did not upset anyone and I hope we can refocus on the objective of this thread, giving EWS support for a choice SHE has made for her circumstances.

 

I'm behind you EWS!!!!!

[RarePearl]

Eyeswideshut, you're a smart woman and you will make the right decisions.

 

As to being immature, if you're both irresponsible, it's not good. People need to be compatible. Responsible people love to take care of others and irresponsible love to be taken care of.

[Chump64]

I don’t think Grateful is condemning. I think she is suggesting that unmarried OW do bear some responsibility for being involved in a relationship in which someone, somewhere, is ultimately either (a) having their heart torn out; or (b) WILL have their heart torn out, once the sh*t hits the fan. Sure, the MM is mostly to blame, but knowingly participating in a relationship that is ultimately wrong – I disagree that OW are completely free from judgment for that. (Or OM, whatever the case may be.) We are all responsible for our behavior when it involves actions that hurt others, even IF others (MM) are subject to the bulk of the blame, since they are the ones who made the vows.

 

And I don't buy the theory of "oh well, if it wasn't me it would be some other woman." I would bet that some of you gals would notify a cashier if an item got skipped while you were checking out at the supermarket or that you would return a $5 bill if you saw an old lady drop it. To do otherwise, you would probably feel like that person had somehow lost something or had been victimized and that you "got something free" in a sly, low-down way. But yet you are up in arms when someone suggests that you have some degree of responsibility for participating in a situation where the hurt is very real.

 

And RC, you keep yelling at Grateful in caps and saying she hasn’t struck a nerve with you. Um, I think she has.

[babydoll_mimi]

MovinOn, Thanks! Tonite has been so hard for me, especially while I was doing all my Father's Day shopping, and not buying him anything....But it looks like tomorrow is going to be a busy day, so hopefully I won't feel so down.

[zarathustra]

So WS are not welcome here? But we are the ones creating all the havoc in the world of affairs, according to RC and MO who believe only the WS and not the OW/OM have any responsibility.

Not with this attitude you had originally with RC, no... you would not be welcomed. This is a place for OW to get support... not condemnation from WS, which from her response, I gather she felt you were doing... there's the infidelity forum for that. If you came out and said that as a WS you shared your feelings, without judging people in this forum, that's different. I think you would be well received right off the bat.

 

Since you are here though, I'll tell you what I think of BSs who look at us OW like we're some kind of trash who intentionally go about wrecking marriages... Many of us were not the ones pursuing, but we were the pursued. Given that, there were problems in the M before we even entered the picture. The MM's refusal to deal with the problems at home and taking things outside is not the OW's problem, its the MM's problem. As for me, up until the 11th hour, I told my xMM to reconsider leaving his family for me. I didn't want him to hurt people unneccesarily and wanted what's best for him. If what little I had to offer him was what he viewed best for him, I would welcome him in my life and I did and gave him my heart and my soul. I didn't want to fall in love with him, falling in love was the easy part. Falling out of love and trying to get to the point of apathy is still very difficult. I'm pretty sure I've fallen out of love as there's no infatuation with him anymore... I don't admire him anymore... the rose coloured glasses are off now. But getting to apathy is killing me.

 

As hard as I've worked to stop betraying my SO and be the partner he deserves I hope you might reconsider whether I have a right to express my opinion, maybe not having worn "your shoes" but the ones very much like the pair across the hotel bed from the OW. [PSA, I never slept with him, just kissed him, but the metaphor worked better with the whole "hotel bed" part thrown in]

 

I too am trying to be the W my H deserves. We're attempting reconciliation. I don't think what you are going through is less painful, just different... just like many of us, there are so many similarities, but so many little twists and turns.

[grateful]

Not with this attitude you had originally with RC, no... you would not be welcomed. This is a place for OW to get support... not condemnation from WS, which from her response, I gather she felt you were doing... there's the infidelity forum for that. If you came out and said that as a WS you shared your feelings, without judging people in this forum, that's different. I think you would be well received right off the bat.

 

I'm sorry but I think that's a little silly. There is no other forum that requires that kind of disclaimer. Do you want a blood test too?

 

Since you are here though, I'll tell you what I think of BSs who look at us OW like we're some kind of trash who intentionally go about wrecking marriages...Many of us were not the ones pursuing, but we were the pursued. Given that, there were problems in the M before we even entered the picture. The MM's refusal to deal with the problems at home and taking things outside is not the OW's problem, its the MM's problem.

 

why, why, why would you feel the need to tell me this? First off, I'm not a BS I'm the cheater. Second, did you not read my post #32, where I did put in a disclaimer about this very subject of MM doing the pursuing, sometimes without telling the OW that they are married.... why do you need to make the very same point to me that I've made above? Disclaimers aren't even enough; non-OW just get attacked and attacked in this forum. It's the only one like this and the reason I limit my posting in here. But sometimes you need to hear an outside voice, amidst all the back patting that goes on in here, that calls someone on the carpet for decisions that are hurting other people.

 

I will say it again. The WS holds responsibility for the affair and for hurting his/her spouse and any children. The OW/OM also holds responsibility for the affair and for hurting the WS's spouse (whether they know them or not) and children. Chump's examples are very good ones. But nobody wanted to discuss the accountability of the affair partner, they just wanted to circle the wagons and start the same, old, tired "OW are always dumped on" wail.

[zarathustra]

I'm sorry but I think that's a little silly. There is no other forum that requires that kind of disclaimer. Do you want a blood test too?

I'm not saying that you have to condone people's action. Buy you need not pass a judgement on someone you don't know. Calling someone callous and cavalier is not what this forum is about. Maybe you should re-read the guidelines for posting here. You are entitle to your opinion, but you should act and sound all self righteous about the situation.

 

I am a silly girl. I'll be first to admit it. However, what I refuse to do is stoop to your level of being as base as insulting another's poster's intelligence by your snarky and sarcastic remarks.

 

 

 

non-OW just get attacked and attacked in this forum. It's the only one like this and the reason I limit my posting in here. But sometimes you need to hear an outside voice, amidst all the back patting that goes on in here, that calls someone on the carpet for decisions that are hurting other people.

I don't think that we say here, nice going RC... f*** the MM. I don't think anyone of us has done that. I think that people need to make choices that they deem best for themselves. I also think that while its not something that works for me it doesn't mean that it won't work for other people. We have some OMs here that are looking to get out and there are some WS who are trying to make things right, etc. Many are well received because they don't have this air of attitude of self righteousness that is perceived when judgement and name calling flies around.

 

I will say it again. The WS holds responsibility for the affair and for hurting his/her spouse and any children. The OW/OM also holds responsibility for the affair and for hurting the WS's spouse (whether they know them or not) and children. Chump's examples are very good ones. But nobody wanted to discuss the accountability of the affair partner, they just wanted to circle the wagons and start the same, old, tired "OW are always dumped on" wail.

You have a tendancy to repeat yourself... so why hold it against me if I'm making the same point as you. No, I didn't read every single sentence and word that you wrote, so I may have missed some stuff. I didn't know that I had to read every word of yours like gospel.

[Chump64]

nobody wanted to discuss the accountability of the affair partner, they just wanted to circle the wagons and start the same, old, tired "OW are always dumped on" wail.

 

 

 

I have to agree with this. There is an extreme hypersensitivity to criticism on this forum. (Granted, lots of the critics are flamers who are not regulars and whose motive is not true discussion or support.)

 

On the other hand, there is a lot of criticism (in the Infidelity forum) toward BS, and a lot of blame is also cast on the BS. Just yesterday, “Rare Pearl” came along and assumed that affairs always start b/c BS don’t put out enough sex. (Blame the victim much?) There isn’t tons of support like there is on this forum. Ok, I am a bit jealous of that. But there have been OW who have come to the Infidelity forum to offer support, which I think is super cool. I would like to see more cross-forum participation at LS, with things staying civil, of course. But this discussion, for example, is quite civil.

[movinon05]

MovinOn, Thanks! Tonite has been so hard for me, especially while I was doing all my Father's Day shopping, and not buying him anything....But it looks like tomorrow is going to be a busy day, so hopefully I won't feel so down.

 

You have to stop worrying about his Father's Day. He is not your father and I'm sure his W and children and other family members are taking good care of him in that department. There is nothing you can do about this, so don't berate yourself for this. Focus on other things. Your father, whoever's father that you share the day with. Otherwise, consider it just another day and another day that you need to get yourself through in NC mode.

[movinon05]

[

 

I have to agree with this. There is an extreme hypersensitivity to criticism on this forum. (Granted, lots of the critics are flamers who are not regulars and whose motive is not true discussion or support.)

 

On the other hand, there is a lot of criticism (in the Infidelity forum) toward BS, and a lot of blame is also cast on the BS. Just yesterday, “Rare Pearl” came along and assumed that affairs always start b/c BS don’t put out enough sex. (Blame the victim much?) There isn’t tons of support like there is on this forum. Ok, I am a bit jealous of that. But there have been OW who have come to the Infidelity forum to offer support, which I think is super cool. I would like to see more cross-forum participation at LS, with things staying civil, of course. But this discussion, for example, is quite civil.

 

I just find that very sad. I did see the thread you are talking about and Rare Pearl did make assumptions without basing her opinions on fact. Apparently this is happening everywhere. But she did acknowledge that.

 

Nvertheless, I don't get the feeling that all BSers are as receptive to us as well. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't feel as if my POV is going to be taken as seriously because I am an EXOW. Who knows. Maybe I'll post there someday and see what happens.

[Chump64]

No, you are right. I was very hostile toward OW when I first came to LS, and I apologize for that.

 

And actually, RP's comments / theory is pretty tame compared to many that show up on the Infidelity board.

[movinon05]

No, you are right. I was very hostile toward OW when I first came to LS, and I apologize for that.

 

And actually, RP's comments / theory is pretty tame compared to many that show up on the Infidelity board.

 

I did notice a shift in your original posts to your most recent posts. All of it understandable. My only hope is that when someone comes to LS, they get all POVs and start learning how the world is not just black and white. We are after all human beings who have/had/will make mistakes.

[Bad_Monkey25]

...Has this "nice understanding" phase ever happen to any of you, and is it weird that I feel so excited about it?

 

Usually the "nice understanding" phase for me turns into more phone calls from him, and more meetings with him (we just had a "nice understanding" moment a couple of weeks ago, haven't went a day without hearing from him since then, sometimes a few times a day)....

and it is not weird that you feel excited about it, it feels good to be "gotten" if you know what I mean.

[eyeswideshut]

i'm beginning to realize that NC for me is just a stupid cover up for the days he doesn't contact ME.

when he's not contacting me, I get on my high horse of how good I am for not having spoken to him during x number of days, and then he calls me and I'm all wishy washy.

 

i always tell myself: next time we speak, I will tell him NC.

then I don't I get all wrapped up in the fact that I haven't spoken to him in so long and then we recap everything we've done since last time we spoke, ex: I had this meeting, I read this book, what have you been up to?

 

It's really stupid. The situation is stagnant and hasn't changed since March.

 

the only difference is that he realizes he can't ask me to come over because that is unfair. Big deal!

 

I'm a big chicken. I can't do the NC talk. i can't sit down and express stuff to him. he told me he had a hard time "weaning away" from me. But the fact of the matter is, bottom line, he is trying to wean away, and not come back, he wants me around, but not for real, only in fantasy.

 

My best friend phoned me from overseas and she's been away from this situation and got an email from me saying: please call this weekend before I cave in!!!

She spoke to me for an hour and said point blank: he's being a jerk to you and you have to promise me you will tell him it's over.

Then she put her fiance on the line and he told me his POV.

He told me that maybe i wanted to be friends with him, because I was able to be friends with a man, but that once a man sleeps with you, he'll just want to get into your pants and the "friendship" is just a quicker road to get there.

they were so funny, the both of them passing each other the phone and trying to save me from drowning.

 

I promised to listen to them, against my own will, and that no matter what I wouldn't see him again.

 

I think i have to let some days pass, and then muster up the courage to really let this go...

 

My friend also does feng shui, and was telling me to clear all my clutter. She also said to have things in pairs like two candle holders two flowers, etc.

While I was talking I realized that I have three pillows on my bed. No wonder I'm in a threesome! hahhahaa.

Anyway. this weekend, I will clear the clutter of my environment, and then take some time away from this situation.

it's over, it's just a matter of dealing with the "talk" and moving on.

 

Watch out MO, I might just steal your screen name!!!