My Marriage is Failing

[Failure]

My marriage is failing and I don't know what to do. A little background first. My wife and I are married for 15 years and we have a beautiful and very well adjusted pre-teen daughter.

 

From the outside, we appear to be a normal couple, happy sometimes and not at others. Neither one of us (at least me for sure) has told anyone about our relationship woes. She told me that she hasn't shared our situation with anyone and I definitely have not. I don't like to air our family's dirty laundry and I believe she feels the same way.

 

Two things that have dramatically changed our relationship were the birth of our daughter and the death of her mother. Upon the birth of our daughter, I became a second class relationship citizen. While my daughter is also the center of my universe, my wife's status in my eyes never changed but in her eyes, I felt as though I was secondary. The sex became infrequent and eventually non-existent. We have not had sex in the last three years and before that, it was infrequent. I enjoy sex with my wife and I find her attractive on many levels including sexually.

 

Four years after the birth of our daughter, my wife's mom dies. I loved and respected my mother in law and was also very saddened by her demise. After her death though, my wife changed again. She seems more distant and isolated and also appeared to have changed her outlook on the world in general. Perhaps more cynical in her view of the world, though I am not sure that accurately describes it.

 

A few days ago, my wife engaged me in a conversation about us. I welcomed it because I know we are going in the wrong direction and have been for sometime. We tend to have these, what I call deep to the core relationship converations once a year or so. They are very intense, no yelling or arguing, but what is said is very intense.

 

What came out of that conversation really shook me even though I had suspected what she had to say to be true all along. That she is essentially staying in this marriage, unhappily, for the sake of our daughter. That when she is "grown up and on her own", we will go our separate ways. This is devasting news to me.

 

She said she doesn't love me anymore. That it happened over time. She said that I am a very nice person, that I have a lot of good qualities as a person and father. She acknowledged that in general, people like me and children like me and that children are a good barometer of what a person is about. She also said we don't have the ability to be together and have the type of times that create "good" memories. She stated very accurately that in our relationship, we both have outlets away from each other that get us through all of this. She has church and a circle of friends and I have a circle of friends that I spend alot of time with (especially in the summer).

 

I told her, and it's absolutely true, that I still love her and never stopped loving her. That I respect who she is as a person. She is a wonderful mother and I told her so. I also respect her professionally as she is in middle management and I think she has a tremendous amount to offer in that regard. I also told her that, and this is the truth, I am pretty successful at just about anything I do. I have a business that I have started and ran for the last 11 years, I am a good parent, I have good relationships with friends, colleagues and acquaintances but the one thing that I have failed at and continue to to fail at is the most important thing in the world to me. And that is my relationship with her. Thus my forum name "failure".

 

For me, there is no one else. I have been and will continue to be totally faithful to her. I continue to be totally devoted to her in spite of our issues. In a previous core conversation, about a year ago, I asked her if there was someone else. She said no and I believe her. There are no signs that she is interested in or seeking someone else. I have looked with eyes wide open to be sure. I am not the type to kid myself. I need to know reality in order to deal with it. I will say this though, that there are times that I doubt she is not airing our dirty laundry. It's subtle things that I pick up when interacting with some in her circle of support. Slight animosity and a cold shoulder here or there. But even this is not a big deal in my eyes.

 

I want to grow old with this woman by my side. When I took my vows, I meant them. They are a very important part of who I am. I am a highly principled individual that believes in keeping his word. Besides, I still and have always loved her.

 

I simply do not know what to do and haven't for years. I feel time is running out for us to repair our relationship. We both mentioned counselling but I don't believe that either of us really thinks that is what is needed or that it will work. Though we both agree that we need to something. She says we may need outside help because she is tired and has no energy to try to fix things herself. It's bad and getting worse. We don't argue or yell, we both withdraw from each other.

 

Yesterday, Father's Day, was a pretty depressing event for me. While she and I acknowledge that I am a good Dad, it was a reminder that I am a miserable failure when it comes to our relationship. I don't know what to do and I usually do. I feel helpless and hopeless. Excuse the length of this post but I don't feel much of it could be left out and still be accurate and complete.

 

Is our relationship doomed? What can I do, what should I do. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Guitar Wizard]

I feel to accurately get a feel for what your going through, I must ask a few questions...

 

1: When was the last time you and your wife got a babysitter and spent an evening out?

 

2: How often do you listen to her, attend to her needs, and overall make a overzealous attempt to tell her how much you love her?

 

3: Do you do anything as a couple anymore?

 

Hmm, that’s about it actually.

 

Anyway, It seems like she’s lost her flare for you because you’ve just withdrawn from each-other like you said. You don’t appeal to her anymore, because over the years you’ve grown apart and done nothing to stop it. You can’t wait until it’s too late to start caring, when you know there is a problem you have to nip it in the butt otherwise it will get progressively worse. My advice would be to go to counseling. I know you don’t think it will help, but telling all your problems to a trained mediator seems like your best bet. After you and your wife get some things off your chest, you’ll have a chance at working on your relationship.

 

Good luck.

[Poboy]

Sorry to hear about this. You are not a failure for starters. A lot of time in marriges and relationships, that spark between the two goes away over time.

 

In your case , i would say counselling is the way to go and go for it as soon as possible. Give it a serious try , counselling has worked wonders in many tough cases . Both of you seem quite open in discussing about the issue which is good. Im sure a good counsellor will help you a lot .

 

Remember , you and your wife have to be in this 100% for the sake of your child and both of you and got to try all possible means to make it work.

 

Another thing is your wife saying that when your child grows up , she wants to go different ways. I think you need to explain to her that when our child has grown up , you can get more time to each other than before which can actually help to get the both of you closer .See the positive & not the negative from this.

 

Counselling is the 1st thing you should think about now rather than thinking you are a failure and other things. All your efforts should be in making this work

[2sunny]

I am sorry and saddened by your post.

 

Counseling should be considered - especially if you still love her. The web site marriagebuilders seems to have been a helpful resource for many here in the past.

 

Good luck and I admire your ability to stay connected to her and your willingness to try!

[Failure]

Guitar Wizard, here are the answers to your questions and they are not good.

 

1) Never. We never did this because we wouldn't trust just anyone with our daughter. Those we did have trust in were not available at the times we needed them. Now that our daughter is older and we can do this, she doesn't have the desire to.

 

2) When ever she talks, I listen intently. I don't have a clue and in order to get a clue, I need to listen. I have tried, over and over to express my love for her. I get empty responses.

 

3) Anything we do do as a couple involves our daughter. It seems our daughter is our most common ground. Not much other than this.

 

Thanks for the responses. I will look into the counselling very seriously. I worry though that our situation will be made more public by doing so though.

[AManWithTroubles]

Public counseling is probably better than a public divorce...

 

On that note, my wife recently told me the same thing. We went to counseling, and worked some things out. She now says that she loves me, even though we are still having our differences. One thing to get over is the whole "spark" idea. Sometimes women are just too tired, or in too much of a routine to get that "spark". At least that's what I have noticed in my woman. One of the best ways to get that "spark" back is to break the routine. Catch her off guard, it gets the blood flowing. But the "spark" doesn't really mean love. It could just be a moment of lust. If she cares about you as a person, and doesn't wish any ill will on you, there's a good chance she still loves you.

 

And to those who might blame you for not doing enough, well, that's not always what women want, especially when they feel that they are "out of love". I think that if you try too hard to show her you love her while she doesn't feel it, then you might force her into beginning to hate you more. She will feel bad about herself because she can't show you the same kind of love.

 

On that note, what helped me best is to show her that you're an independant person. Go on with your life, act happy. Stop talking about your relationship, save that for counseling. Be patient. Talk to her about anything else in this world, besides what's current between you two. Listen to her world, without trying to tell her what to do, just listen. And be you, once more, just be you. Maybe somehow bring up reminders of what brought you all together in the first place.

 

So my first thought would be that she is just in a rut, and she really does love you, and needs time and space to work it out. Not so much space that you are completely away. Just be her friend through these times, and she will appreciate you that much more for it in the end.

 

And if things get really bad, print out legal separation papers, and show her how hard it is to work all the things out in a separation. <--- Last resort only please.

[thegoodhubbie]

First, you are not a failure. It seems like you are doing what you can to help your marriage succeed, but are not getting any help. Obviously I am no expert, and I could be way off base, but it sounds like maybe your wife is depressed? Depression can be a very insidous thing. Several things in your post seem to suggest this.

 

Upon the birth of our daughter, I became a second class relationship citizen.

 

How so? Did she lose interest in things in general. In what way did you become second class?

 

Four years after the birth of our daughter, my wife's mom dies. After her death my wife changed again. She seems more distant and isolated and also appeared to have changed her outlook on the world in general. Perhaps more cynical in her view of the world, though I am not sure that accurately describes it.

 

 

She says we may need outside help because she is tired and has no energy to try to fix things herself. It's bad and getting worse. We don't argue or yell, we both withdraw from each other.

 

These last two statements in particular, to me suggest, chronic, longstanding depression.

 

It just doesn't make sense to me that if she says you are a nice person and get along with everyone, etc, that she "doesn't love you".

 

Hope this helps/sheds some light.

[Failure]

AManWithTroubles seems to be very in tune with my situation and some of his advice I have read elsewhere. Especially the part about trying too hard. What I've read about trying too hard is that it may invalidate her feelings, emotions and actions. I have been guilty of this in the past and do not want to repeat that mistake. The part where you state public counselling is better than a public divorce is just profound and taken to heart.

 

GoodHubbie and others talk about depression. This might be a part of it. There is no doubt in my mind that she feels like she is in a rut.

 

About the second class relationship question that GoodHubbie asks, our daughter was the center of my wife's world and everything and everyone was secondary or further down the list, myself included.

 

Believe me, alot of this makes no sense at all to me. Like her kind comments about me but not loving me. All I know is that I need to fix this situation. To me it matters not who is right or wrong. I just want to know what to do and counselling sounds like a start. We have so much going for us and yet the important element of love is missing.

[AManWithTroubles]

Yes, failure. That's the key. It may invalidate her feelings. Don't tell her that she is wrong, it only hurts more. Allow her to think how she thinks. Don't argue with her at all about whether or not she's in love with you. Let that work itself out in counseling. Instead, try to be the person that she can fall in love with again, when things come around.

 

A book I can recommend that tells you how to be the best husband possible, would be The Secrets of Happily Married Men. Lots of good info and explanations in it, and it reads easily.

[whichwayisup]

She owes you and her daughter to try and fix the marriage. So much has happened, so little words...Now, the floodgates have opened and she's made a choice that will affect her life and yours without even trying to get help. That's awful and it's sad...

 

She's lost that loving feeling and it's time for her to get it back. Show her who you are! The man she fell for years ago! Start romancing her, making her feel special and loved....It may sound corny, but write her love notes too. (Not all at once, but weekly, just start bringing home flowers and do little nice things for her...) I think by doing that it will make her stop and think.

 

Bring up marriage counselling...Better to try and see if things can be worked out than not at all. She'll regret that one day.

 

Sorry for your pain.

[bumblebee]

Sorry to hear about your pain and I think we can help each other. Since I am going through the same things with my husband but I can see you in him. I can see my relationship heading your way completely since we seem to be where you started. One thing I want to ask is, what does she have going well for her in her life besides your daughter? Does she have a successful life outside the marriage and motherhood? Or does she have no energy for anything at all? That is a clear sign of depression. I understand where your wife is coming from. When it feels like you have nothing going for you and then your mother dies you can feel very empty and spent in the emotions. If you furthermore feel disconnected from the one person you chose to share your life with then you can sink even further into your pit of woe. If your trying to show your love for her and she hasn't noticed it, question yourself what would she notice? I think she is so far down into her pit that she can't see any kind of gestures unless they are extreme. My advice would be tonight tell your daughter that the two of you will make your wife feel special. Plan it together and surprise your wife. Make it a BIG BIG deal. She needs to feel special right now and you can make that happen. Sometimes that's all it takes for her to remember how much she really loves you and it will jump start the healing. I hope, for your sake and for mine that our relationships aren't over.

[Kenyth]

"Challenge" is a word to think about here. It sounds crazy, but in order for a relationship to have staying power, there needs to be a small underlying fear of losing your SO. A force that drives you to do things to keep the other person around and happy. You need to remain a challenge. Once you give someone 100% devotion, you set an end point on the relationship growth. Now all of a sudden, there's nothing to strive for. A relationship is kind of like a vining ground plant, you've got a growing end, and a dying end. If you stop the growing end, the dying end catches up and the whole relationship dies. You may yet save this thing, but you're going to have to take a risk. You're going to have to force her to come to a hard decision and live with the consequences of it. This, "We'll live together for the sake of the child until she's old enough", is a cop-out. Make dissolving the marriage and losing her current life real to her. Tell her you can't live with someone who doesn't love you. You have the right to find a loving partner. Make arrangements to leave and seperate your lives. Once it's real to her and a sense of loss is imminent, that may be what it takes to breathe life back into things. Mind you, this isn't a game. It's standing up for your want's and needs in marriage. You have to be truly willing to leave her if things don't make you happy. Either you'll get your marriage jump started, or things will end. At any rate, it will certainly be better than what it is now. You WILL need counseling if you decide to stay together. Just my two cents worth. Don't live in limbo. You're worth more than that.

[jmargel]

I have not read any of the replies so if my post is a duplicate to someone else's, forgive me.

 

To the OP of this thread you are NOT a failure. You are putting this all on yourself. The real reason why you two are at this point is because you are having communication problems. This is often the main underlying reason why marriage break-apart. It is also the reason why many other problems within a marriage start.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over, expecting different results. So try something new. Call a marriage counselor and arrange an appointment for yourself. Tell your wife you are going and invite her along. If she accepts, great. If not, don't worry about it. She will over time. The counselor will be able to give you advice on how to get closer again and to approach your situations at a different angle. Sounds like instead of communicating you both go into your corners and don't express how you feel. These 'deep' conversations should be happening alot more than just once a year!

 

When is the last time you took her out on a date? Where you two just had fun by yourself? When's the last time you went on a vacation with just each other?

 

It also sounds like your wife maybe suffering from depression. This can adversly affect relationships. It's one of the main reasons why my engagement failed, and was almost the failure of my marriage. This is something she needs to address but you have to approach it in a way that doesn't put her on the offensive towards you.

 

Sounds like you two have forgotten how the little things in life mean so much to each other. When's the last time you made her feel special? Getting her a card for no reason or writing her a poem?

 

Please seek out a marriage counselor today it could only do the both of you good.

[Failure]

One thing I want to ask is, what does she have going well for her in her life besides your daughter? Does she have a successful life outside the marriage and motherhood? Or does she have no energy for anything at all?

 

She has a circle of friends and is well respected at her job. She is involved with the church and is a scout leader as well. So I would say yes she has successes outside of our daughter. I guess I would have to say that she does have energy for work, church, scouts and our daughter. But I think she's tired and that these things take a toll on her, though she doesn't like to admit it. She is also somewhat dissatisfied with her job. She feels trapped because where she works, they pay the most in the area for what she does. So she doesn't want to leave the good money despite the lack of satisfaction. Her salary is as important as mine to maintain a middle class lifestyle. Professionally, we are quite equal.

 

I think she is depressed often. I don't know if I am the sole cause or if I am the one that is merely affected by it. Somedays, she's okay. That is to say we can talk and even have an occassional laugh and even show an appreciation for each other. Then other days, I feel like jumping off a building for just being around her.

 

As far as walking goes, I am not prepared to do that. The last time we had one of our core conversations, I asked her if she wanted me to move out. She replied "is that an option?" I don't know if she meant financially or from the perspective of raising our daughter. Then the next morning it's like that was never said and we are coordinating our daughter's care.

 

I think it would be a mistake to leave. My parents had a rocky and argumentative marriage and the one thing that kept it all together was everyone came home at night. Being brought up in that environment, I was in tune to other family's woes and it seemed that once one partner left, more often than not, the relationship ended. Those that stuck together, at least from my observations, had a better chance to make things work. Far from 100% but more success by sticking it out than by moving out.

 

I am still having a problem with the counselling too. I don't know where to start and how. I am not sure I want to. I was brought up in such a manner that "the best place to find a hand is at the end of your arm, stand on your own two feet" etc. Christ, I have to be dying to get medical assistance. Seeking help from others, especially when it comes to me benefiting from it, is foreign to me.

[Kenyth]

No guts, no glory bubba. No risk, no reward. You're going to have to take a risk to make things better. Granted, it may make them worse instead, and it will probably be an uncomfortable process, but standing in one spot sure isn't gonna do the trick! Life is a gamble, but most things have pretty good odds if you think them through.

 

Here's a few wise sayings for you:

 

You can't miss it if it won't go away.

-Dan Hicks

 

This one is supposed to be humorous, but it has a grain of truth in it. You can't instill a sense of loss, and reap the benefit of the growth and understanding that comes with it, unless you're willing to remove the object of discussion to begin with.

 

What you are now is what you have been, and what you will be is what you do now

 

-The Buddha

 

In other words, you have to invest in doing something now to change the way things will be in the future.

 

 

Take a starving dog and make him prosperous and he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a woman.

 

–Mark Twain

 

This one's just for fun. I find it describes people in general.

[Failure]

No guts, no glory bubba. No risk, no reward. You're going to have to take a risk to make things better. Granted, it may make them worse instead, and it will probably be an uncomfortable process, but standing in one spot sure isn't gonna do the trick! Life is a gamble, but most things have pretty good odds if you think them through.

 

Here's a few wise sayings for you:

 

You can't miss it if it won't go away.

-Dan Hicks

 

This one is supposed to be humorous, but it has a grain of truth in it. You can't instill a sense of loss, and reap the benefit of the growth and understanding that comes with it, unless you're willing to remove the object of discussion to begin with.

 

What you are now is what you have been, and what you will be is what you do now

 

-The Buddha

 

In other words, you have to invest in doing something now to change the way things will be in the future.

 

 

Take a starving dog and make him prosperous and he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a woman.

 

–Mark Twain

 

This one's just for fun. I find it describes people in general.

 

What specific risk/gamble are you suggesting I take? Moving out. That would be devastating to my daughter. Our daughter, for the most part doesn't realize the extent of our relationship flaws. Sure she sees tension and each of us retreating from the other. But we never really argue. She sees a less than affectionate couple but I don't think our daughter has any idea that our household could come tumbling down. Leaving, I believe would hurt her (our daughter) immensely. It's bad enough I am losing my wife but I don't want to lose my daughter too. I always try to make my wife look good in my daughter's eyes. It's a way for me to tell my daughter that her mother is good and she is lucky to have such a good mom. I am not sure my wife reciprocates however.

 

Lately, I have come to suspect that my daughter and I don't communicate as well I thought we did. She was afraid to tell me that she didn't want to play on a particular sports team. She also doesn't ask me if it's okay to have friends over or to do things with her friends. She always asks her mother. My wife says it's because she afraid of what I will say. I never yell at my daughter and rarely have to speak harshly to her. I don't see that I am the reason for her reluctance to communicate.

 

I mention this because it's crossed my mind that my wife is projecting her feelings toward me on our daughter. It pisses me off to think that this might be happening. My family is my world. The both of them make up my entire family. My view of marriage is that husband and wife should be first in each other's lives. My daughter comes first in my wife's life and has since the day she was born. This in and of itself has caused resentment that I just learned to live with.

 

I don't understand this gambling thing you talk about Kenyth. My view toward gambling is if you can't afford to lose, you can't afford to win. I feel I can't afford to lose. Generally, I am a moderate risk taker. I own a business and that takes having to take risk every day. Every day I open the doors, I take risk. I like to fully understand the risks that I take before taking them. Analyzing both the up and downsides to it and calculating whether the reward is worth the risk.

 

I liken life to baseball often. I believe there are many parallels. As long as I have some at bats to take, I have the potential of winning the game. The moment I walk off the field, I lose automatically. So while she may be protesting a play or an umps call, if I walk off in response to that hoping she will change her mind and not protest it any longer, I stand to lose immediately. If I just take the protest and continue to have at bats (time), I still can win the game.

[Becoming]

Failure (not an accurate name!), if you've read anything on LS regarding your situation, you'll quickly realize you're not alone. There are lots of good responses in other threads.

 

Check out http://www.marriagebuilders.com Sitting down and talking our way through that site, especially comparing our emotional needs' inventories, and going to marriage counseling as well have saved our marriage.

 

Prayers for finding your way back to one another.

[Kenyth]

Hey F, I don't run your life and my information on your situation is minimal at best. Certainly do what you think is best. I only ask that you sit down and really think about what is best on a regular basis. If you want to live the way you are now, just do nothing, that's all it takes. If you want things to change, you'll have to do something and possibly change the way you think or do things. That's just the way it is. Take yourself to counseling at a minimum. Also, show some emotion man! If you're mad or hurt, show it! Emotion is a powerful tool! She needs to know you have passion when it comes to her! She won't wake up unless you make a little noise! Withdrawing causes more problems than it solves.

 

If all else fails, I still say leave. You may not want to take the risk and that's your choice. Just remember, you can't win unless you put your money down.

[larryblenn]

Failure,

This is just a suggestion but I think you should visit this site and watch this movie. http://thesecret.tv/

 

That would be a start not only for your relationship but for yourself as well. You seem like a good well-rounded person and I'm trully sorry for your situation.

[Becoming]

Take yourself to counseling at a minimum. Also, show some emotion man! If you're mad or hurt, show it! Emotion is a powerful tool! She needs to know you have passion when it comes to her! She won't wake up unless you make a little noise! Withdrawing causes more problems than it solves.

 

I agree with Kenyth here. Your post sounds so rational and unemotional like you're numbed out or something. I suspect you might be afraid of all the emotions roiling down in your soul over this (and some other past rejections/abandonments?).

 

Do yourself a world of good and get some counseling to help you through this rough time so that you can go on to live the life you were put here to do.

 

Shalom!

[Failure]

Hey F, I don't run your life and my information on your situation is minimal at best. Certainly do what you think is best. I only ask that you sit down and really think about what is best on a regular basis. If you want to live the way you are now, just do nothing, that's all it takes. If you want things to change, you'll have to do something and possibly change the way you think or do things. That's just the way it is. Take yourself to counseling at a minimum. Also, show some emotion man! If you're mad or hurt, show it! Emotion is a powerful tool! She needs to know you have passion when it comes to her! She won't wake up unless you make a little noise! Withdrawing causes more problems than it solves.

 

If all else fails, I still say leave. You may not want to take the risk and that's your choice. Just remember, you can't win unless you put your money down.

 

Your suggestions weren't clear to me. They were, from my viewpoint, ambiguous. I simply wanted clarification of the considerations you bring to my attention. It's all good as far as I am concerned. Believe me my friend, no one runs my life. I take and accept full responsibility for my life, good or bad.