iamanisland Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Hi everyone... I am not married, but may be in a year or so... I am fairly concrete in what I expect of a woman and what I plan to give. I believe that in marriage there are obligations and priorities that must be held on to no matter what. I want to list them out here and see who agrees and disagrees... This is important because I need to guage if my expectations are in any way realistic... I warn you all, I am very traditional and could care less about modern feminism and its defeminising trends... I am a supporter of stay at home wives, especially with children around. Obligations: - For a man to a woman: - Support financially as best as possible, love, care, protect, respect, be gentle, be strong always, fulfill emotionally and sexually. I myself see no problems in me being able to do all these. For the woman to the man: - Respect, obey (as in recognise that I'm the head of the house), love, care, be devoted and fulfill emotionally and sexually. From reading threads and just common knowledge, it seems women see it as totally ok to ignore the husband's need for devotion, care and sexual fulfillment... Women see these as a choice... I dont agree, as far as i'm concerned, if a wife wont put out (in all these), she should get out. Priorities: - One thing that is totally doing my head in is the realisation that women use children as the excuse of all excuses to neglect their duties to their husbands. No sex, I'm tired from being a slave to the children all day. Sorry I have no time for you, I'm busy with the kids. etc etc etc... As far as I'm concerned, my wife's first priority is me, then the kids. And viceversa, that is, she is my first priority, then the kids. I'm sick of this thing where kids are worshipped by women and submitted to all day. If you make kids the center of the world they will grow up into the crap that people are nowadays... The husband and wife are the sun, the children are the planets. I hear so much that for women, kids come first, to me that is just such BS! I mean why should they? All you do is make them feel privileged and superior for no good reason. It turns them into the selfish me me me people that populate the world. Love your kids fine... but let them know who the boss is, that they come second to parents, that their wants are actually not that important etc... They should know their place! Also, kids are essentially users who take take take and who then go away when they can, your husband is there always, sacrificing for you, working to support you, and aiming to protect and love you. You OWE him your devotion, and yes to have sex even when its not exactly what you want to do. Men have strong sexual needs, at least I do, and I have waited all this time and remained completely virgin (by CHOICE), not so that my wife could blackmail me with sex, or just plain neglect my needs for any reason, especially kids. Also, sex for me is a very important way of being very close and intimate with me wife, not the only way, but an important way. I've told my prospective that if I ever though that I would come after the kids in priority with her that I would divorce her before she had time to wipe another snotty face. I also told her that witholding sex was not an option. (excluding periods that is). I'm absolutely rigid on these, I will give 100% to my wife, but if I don't get it back I have no problem dumping her and moving on. I should say, I expect my wife to do her duty to me, but not if I am not doing my duty to her... So... any opionions???? Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 ill post it in the pre-marriage place as well just in case... Link to post Share on other sites
Pink_Tulip Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I dont think there is a right or wrong here. What is important is that you and your future wife discuss all expectations BEFORE marriage. Just as you have made a list, ask her to make a list as well so you know what she expects of you. If you have been lurking at all, you see porn is a big issue. It seems to me that most of the issues that come up during marriage do so only because they were not discussed before hand, or if they were discussed, one party lied. I think you are on the right track with wanting to lay out expectations. Just make sure she does the same, and you should be ok. Link to post Share on other sites
justagirliegirl Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 1. Don't have kids. 2. If you are as traditional as you say you are, then you will take your vows seriously; for better or for worse. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 For better or for worse means that when times are hard or if some problem hits the family as a whole.. It does not mean, I will stay with you wether you fulfill your obligations to me or not, whether you fulfill my needs or not. Thats plain stupid to me. Marriage is an arrangement, for love, care, fulfillment and for kids. You can't get married and arbitrarily ignore your responsibilities... not with me anyway... Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Well, my philosophies don't quite align perfectly with yours, but I don't think we would have a very productive debate. The important thing is that if you are inflexible on these requirements ("I am fairly concrete in what I expect..." "obligations and priorities that must be held on to no matter what..." "I'm absolutely rigid on these..."), then you should absolutely lay them out with your prospective wife, and get her agreement. Make sure she is in clear, enthusiastic agreement, not just caving in, and agreeing with the assumption that you will change later, as spouses sometimes think upon entry into matrimony... Be very clear, including an agreement on whether to have kids or not; it appears that you leave no room for flexibility in your requirements, so you should both have a very clear view of them going in. Given your rigidity (your word), DON'T leave anything to chance and say, oh, we'll work that out later. And the one specific opinion that I will render is that I tend to agree with justagirliegirl: if I were in your position, I probably wouldn't want to have any snotty faced, self-centered, users interfering with my life and my relationship with my wife. I can't imagine why you would want to. Get a dog instead. Link to post Share on other sites
justagirliegirl Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Well, my philosophies don't quite align perfectly with yours, but I don't think we would have a very productive debate. The important thing is that if you are inflexible on these requirements ("I am fairly concrete in what I expect..." "obligations and priorities that must be held on to no matter what..." "I'm absolutely rigid on these..."), then you should absolutely lay them out with your prospective wife, and get her agreement. Make sure she is in clear, enthusiastic agreement, not just caving in, and agreeing with the assumption that you will change later, as spouses sometimes think upon entry into matrimony... Be very clear, including an agreement on whether to have kids or not; it appears that you leave no room for flexibility in your requirements, so you should both have a very clear view of them going in. Given your rigidity (your word), DON'T leave anything to chance and say, oh, we'll work that out later. And the one specific opinion that I will render is that I tend to agree with justagirliegirl: if I were in your position, I probably wouldn't want to have any snotty faced, self-centered, users interfering with my life and my relationship with my wife. I can't imagine why you would want to. Get a dog instead. Well he is declaring that he is the biggest baby so there wouldn't be any room for anymore! To the op, frankly you sound very rigid and controlling and I doubt anyone could live up to your "standards". Marriage just might not be for you. Link to post Share on other sites
bab Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I agree with Trimmer. We definitely don't have the same views on a marriage realtionship, but as long as you are completely upfront with the woman you are to marry LONG BEFORE the wedding (or perferable the proposal) I don't see what the big deal is. If she agrees then so be it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 So... any opionions???? Get a dog and take up porn. You might find a young woman that'll put up with the knuckle-dragging neanderthal routine for a little while. But by the time she reaches a mature age, and the blush is off the rose.... all that "put out or get out" bullsh*t is going to wear a bit thin. If it's really true that you are "absolutely rigid" in your expectations, marriage isn't your best bet. Relationships are more fluid than static. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 "Well, my philosophies don't quite align perfectly with yours, but I don't think we would have a very productive debate." cool "The important thing is that if you are inflexible on these requirements ("I am fairly concrete in what I expect..." "obligations and priorities that must be held on to no matter what..." "I'm absolutely rigid on these..."), then you should absolutely lay them out with your prospective wife, and get her agreement." Agreed "Make sure she is in clear, enthusiastic agreement, not just caving in, and agreeing with the assumption that you will change later, as spouses sometimes think upon entry into matrimony..." Agreed "Be very clear, including an agreement on whether to have kids or not; it appears that you leave no room for flexibility in your requirements, so you should both have a very clear view of them going in." Agreed. "Given your rigidity (your word), DON'T leave anything to chance and say, oh, we'll work that out later." Agreed "And the one specific opinion that I will render is that I tend to agree with justagirliegirl: if I were in your position, I probably wouldn't want to have any snotty faced, self-centered, users interfering with my life and my relationship with my wife." Its true, im revolted by kids... but i dont mind having them, as long as i have a big say in how they are brought up... modern mothers are screwing children up... and I have strict ideas on her priorities in this time... I would have children because i believe this is my wife's right, and I can't take that from her. but i willl be hands on and not allow them to rule the house or my wife. "I can't imagine why you would want to. Get a dog instead."" I really hate dogs... they disgust me... Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 " Well he is declaring that he is the biggest baby so there wouldn't be any room for anymore! " Thats not nice... and its not helping either... Link to post Share on other sites
Pink_Tulip Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 If the only reason you will tolerate kids is because it is your "wifes right," please do NOT have them. Children deserve a father who absolutely loves them, and desperately WANTS them. Not a father who will simply tolerate them, and only be involved to make sure they dont embarass him. Children are human beings, not accessories. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 So have you had this discussion with her yet? If not, are you going to? If so, is she agreeable and enthusiastic about moving forward within this framework? Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 "Get a dog and take up porn. " Don't like dogs... and porn is a terrible industry... "You might find a young woman that'll put up with the knuckle-dragging neanderthal routine for a little while." Its not knuckle dragging... modern day ways to me are terrible... so lets say its a matter of opinion... " But by the time she reaches a mature age, and the blush is off the rose.... all that "put out or get out" bullsh*t is going to wear a bit thin. " What?? that she should fulfill her obligations is not something i should expect?! I dont plan to ignore mine so why should she be allowed to? "If it's really true that you are "absolutely rigid" in your expectations, marriage isn't your best bet." I want a partner... "Relationships are more fluid than static." as in fluidy sometimes fulfilling abligations and other times not??? what the hell has happened to the world... Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 "The important thing is that if you are inflexible on these requirements ("I am fairly concrete in what I expect..." "obligations and priorities that must be held on to no matter what..." "I'm absolutely rigid on these..."), then you should absolutely lay them out with your prospective wife, and get her agreement." Agreed "Make sure she is in clear, enthusiastic agreement, not just caving in, and agreeing with the assumption that you will change later, as spouses sometimes think upon entry into matrimony..." Agreed "Be very clear, including an agreement on whether to have kids or not; it appears that you leave no room for flexibility in your requirements, so you should both have a very clear view of them going in." Agreed. "Given your rigidity (your word), DON'T leave anything to chance and say, oh, we'll work that out later." Agreed How good do you think that agreement is going to be 20 years from now? People change. Things happen. Resentments build up. But, here's a thought... If you get it all written down on a good quality, soft, perhaps even 2-ply paper, maybe then you'll have something useful. "And the one specific opinion that I will render is that I tend to agree with justagirliegirl: if I were in your position, I probably wouldn't want to have any snotty faced, self-centered, users interfering with my life and my relationship with my wife." Its true, im revolted by kids... but i dont mind having them, as long as i have a big say in how they are brought up... modern mothers are screwing children up... and I have strict ideas on her priorities in this time... I would have children because i believe this is my wife's right, and I can't take that from her. but i willl be hands on and not allow them to rule the house or my wife. "I can't imagine why you would want to. Get a dog instead."" I really hate dogs... they disgust me... I can't imagine what any girl could see in a guy who doesn't like kids or dogs, but maybe the old cliche applies and there really is someone for everyone. Who knows? I'll tell you this though, it's not right to deliberately bring a child into the world if you're "revolted" by the prospect of it. It's cruel. Kids ought to be loved and wanted by BOTH parents. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 So have you had this discussion with her yet? If not, are you going to? If so, is she agreeable and enthusiastic about moving forward within this framework? I have a bit, i keep trying to... I wont marry her until she knows exactly whats up and has no problem dealing with it Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I want a partner... I don't think what you've described is 'partnership'. Partnership implies equality, and it's not equal when one person is required to "obey" the other. People really do change as they age. A woman of 40 years is not the same as she was when she was 20. Believe me.... I know from experience. When considering marriage, it's better to think about how you might add to your spouse's life experience and never subtract from it. And in keeping the relationship alive.... it's good to put that consideration into practice daily. Again, that's personal experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 You know what Iam? I agree with you! You're not asking for anything that you don't expect in return. The only think is the issue of children. That's just plain wrong. If you REALLY don't want them and don't like them, then please find a woman who also doesn't want them. Children need BOTH parents. And it doesn't sound like you will be a very good father. As far as a husband, well that's another story. I don't think you are expecting any more from your wife-to-be than she should expect from you. I think it sounds fair and equitable. I think you're on the right track. You have the makings for a really good marriage if you can find a like-minded woman. That's a big IF though. Just please re-think having kids. I don't know that you should have kids. Be proud of your conservative ways. Don't let others beat you down. You sound like a good guy. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Bullgator Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Island: I believe the term for the marriage you are describing is "complementarian". I think you'll find most of the posters at this site take the opposite view, which is "egalitarian". I have friends who for religious reasons try to live according to the complementarian model, but it's very difficult. That debate ended here in the West decades ago -- egalitarianism is "in" and those who disagree are stigmatized. But don't worry, history moves in cycles. First the majority will approve one behavior and stigmatize its opposite. Those who practice the opposite are considered outside the mainstream. But at some point, the ugly, "outside the meanstream" ideas get relabeled as cooler, "counter-cultural" ideas. Then everybody, wanting to be cool, buys into them again. And the cycle repeats. Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I wont marry her until she knows exactly whats up and has no problem dealing with it READ: I won't bestow upon her the gift and privelege of marriage to me until she's so brainwashed, insipid or emotionally beaten down that she'll give in to my complete power and control over all aspects of our relationship. I DA MAN!!! Puhleeze! Where's the barf icon when you need it? Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Bull, Bullgator! (That sounded so cool! ) I can't find anything about his views on marriage that are NOT egalitarian. It all sounds pretty equal to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iamanisland Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 My take on marriage is indeed complementary. Men and women are different and compliment one another. I believe in roles for both that are equal but different based upon natural personality inclinations. Men and women are not the same, but that does not mean they are not equal. I am for equality, not identicality. Touche, I think the egalitarian issue comes in because I see the the man (when he does his job!) as the head of the house, a position the wife accepts and respects. I fully respect women in their loving and caring and supportive roles... And I would respect my wife 100% for her efforts in these. Head mind you, not dictator. I see myself as her guardian and maintainer, along with all the other stuff. And she fulfills other roles for me. Although, people will still say I'm trying to reduce her... whatever... thats your opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I see myself as her guardian and maintainer, along with all the other stuff. And she fulfills other roles for me. Why would a fully grown woman need (or want) a "guardian"? Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ...or a "maintainer?" Of course, if she's totally incapable of providing for herself, making her own way in life and is a complete and utter, passive dependent, I suppose she might like being kept. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ...or a "maintainer?" Of course, if she's totally incapable of providing for herself, making her own way in life and is a complete and utter, passive dependent, I suppose she might like being kept. I imagine a woman who's "totally incapable of providing for herself" might be a little more biddable.... particularly if she's not the most attractive girl around. That way, her options will be limited. A super-attractive 'kept woman' might eventually shop around for a better "maintainer" once she gets bored. Link to post Share on other sites
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