Do abusers change?

[JustG]

Simple question with a complex answer, I'm sure.

 

-If yes, how? What does it take? Under what circumstances? Is it likely to last without professional help?

 

-If no, how do you convince the abusee that this person really hasn't changed and the change she is seeing is just part of the cycle?

[JustG]

Also, if anyone can offer up some resources, especially statistics it'd be most helpful. Specifics on emotional abuse would be even better.

[the_alchemyst]

Due to the many underlying problems of an abuser, they tend to not change most of the time, unfortunately.

 

Because of the nature of this problem, there is no real "cure" for them. The only plausible way for them to change is for the to truly want to change their behavior.

 

They must first recognize and admit to the underlying motives of why they abuse, understand that what they do has is extremely harmful both to themselves and to any other party, and they must be 100% sure that they want to share, and even more importantly, that they are willing to work towards their personal betterment.

 

They must be able to recognize first signs of anger and what triggers then in order to prevent them. This is to say that they must know and believe that they are the ones in control of their emotions, not the other way around, and that they have choices for dealing with their anger that do no involve any kind of abuse.

 

In short: They must break the cycle they live in, which is, unfortunately, extremely difficult.

 

Many times breaking away proves too hard, and so they fall right back into it. And then many other times, they think they have changed, but end up doing the same thing later on, namely because they were not 100% commited to changing.

 

So, while abusers can change, keep in mind that this is an extremely difficult task. The first step is to have them recognize they have a problem, and that is probably the most difficult step to pass over.

 

By theirself, an abuser is not likely to change, so professional help is almost always necessary.

[Craig]

Yes Abusers change but usually not for the better unless they truly want to change for the better and for their own reasons.

 

If the abuser doesn't want to change but is forced to make some changes they will drop certain abusive behavior and start using new abusive behavior. Most of the time.

 

I used to have faith that people could change from being abusive but don't anymore. That being said it is critically important to be aware that I am talking about the type of abuser that follows the cycle of abuse pattern and NOT someone that has a rare instance of being abusive. They are two different animals I think.

 

Teaching a pig to sing might in some instances be easier than convincing an abusee that their abuser hasn't changed so don't get yourself ready to see sudden changes in the abusee. Though it isn't impossible that the abusee will see the light and leave soon, it isn't likely.

 

The abusee may need to be aware of the cycle of abuse and go through it a couple of times before they get it. Even then leaving their abuser could be hard for them, they may leave and come back several times before they leave for good.

 

Anything you can do to remind the abusee of their situation without getting kicked to the curb yourself will be a good thing. Pamphlets from a local Domestic Violence center, printouts of the cycle of violence from the net, symptoms of emotional abuse from the net, etc.

 

Good luck and much patience please,

 

Craig

[JustG]

Thanks for the replies!

 

To add a little background and perhaps explain the urgency of this situation, I have a close friend/coworker that is currently involved with a very abusive individual. As far as I know now the abuse has been purely physcological/emotional but I and several others are convinced it's only a matter of time before it becomes physical.

 

This girl has several emotional and self-confidence problems herself as well as past emtionally abusive relationships and a fairly rough childhood. She has managed to find a guy that is able to take advantage of every single weekness and insecurity she has. It's the worst I've ever seen anyone manipulated in a relationship.

 

What makes this urgent is he's puting some major pressure on her to give up her appartment and move in with him. Knowing her nature and past I can say with an amount of certainty that this will make it nearly impossible for her to leave.

 

Just a couple days ago I finally confronted her with the idea that she's being abused. At first she rejected the "abuse" word. I pointed her to several websites I'd collected for her regarding the cycle of abuse, facts about emotional abuse as well as this "Emotional Abuse Checklist"

 

When I took it for her, making a few assumptions I found about 54 affirmative responses. When she took it she said she came up with 29. Although I have my doubts that she was able to be completely honest with herself as well as me knowing exactly what she's feeling and going through, I know that even her results to the "test" we more than enough for a rational person to conclude that she's in trouble.

 

This didn't bring her to come right out and admit it, but I can see she's at least beginning to think about it. I saw a spark in her eyes that I hadn't seen for quite a while. She won't tell me exactly when she's expected to be moving in with him but I get the feeling it's rather soon. I can only hope that what I'm doing will help convince her to at least put it off for a little while longer...

 

Once again, thanks for your replies and I'm certainly willing to read more!

[samjam]

Simple question with a complex answer, I'm sure.

 

-If yes, how? What does it take? Under what circumstances? Is it likely to last without professional help?

 

-If no, how do you convince the abusee that this person really hasn't changed and the change she is seeing is just part of the cycle?

 

This might be a little fuzzy but let me give you my take on it. I will refer to sex abusers because that's what I work with the most but domestic abusers grace my list as well.

 

Looking at an abuser, simply as an abuser and not looking at the rest of their life is doing yourself an injustice. First of all everyone is born with a certain "character" so to speak. To wonder if an abuser will ever change is like wondering if a lion will ever be sorry for eating a lamb and become a vegetarion.

 

I have found that if there is any remorse, it was do to the fact that they didn't understand the destructiveness of what they did. If an offender can come to realize that most victims like the ones they created have many things in common like high suicide rates and high personal life failure rates. Then they begin to see the same things in their own lives because of aborrated thinking patterns set off by those who influenced them the most when they were growing up. This can cause a "re-thinking" episode.

 

When WE were growing up most of us had an occasion where we lied or stole something. We were not sorry for it until we got caught and began to realize what we had done to someone who trusted us. Then when WE got something stolen from us or someone we trusted, lied to us, we felt the full impact of what we did to someone else. Here's the problem:

 

Many child molesters, rapist and domestic abusers don't feel that impact. In fact they take the opposite stance. They simply do not connect to any type of remorse or empathy or compassion. Or they are soory "each time" but they do it again.

 

So let me ask you this: If you were caught lying or stealing before you realized the harm you had done, were you sorry? Or were you angry because you got caught? Have you been a thief and a liar every since with no chance of redemption?

 

This seems to be the defining difference. One man looked me square in the eye and said, "If you wanna help me, then tell me what the h##ll I was thinking when I did that. Tell me what went wrong with my mind to have done something like that!" Another one said, "I think they're making to big a deal out of this whole thing! Nobody got hurt"

 

The first guy has never re-offended and helps other offenders to see the wrong in what they did. The second guy recieved his second sentence of 9 years shortly after that conversation. So I'm afraid it has a lot to do with what the person was BEFORE they were offenders.

 

Do they have a history of being compassionate or mean? Could you see times when they manipulated or forced others to bend to their will? Were they mean to animals for no reason? How about their response to being accused of some wrong doing before they were accused of the present wrong? How about what you percieve as their own self esteem, especially when they're around their buddies.

 

Most of the time when we think of sex offender or child molester we instantly have a mental image of "Chester The Molester" in a dark rain coat, waiting pounce on a child and that's rarely the case. Many times that kind of image will cause a child to fail to recognise a molester or that they are being molested. Especially if the offender is a sibling or family freind.

 

(1)Most if not all offenders who impose, manipulate, use force or intimidation, or even compliments, will probably never change anymore than the lion we hope will become a vegatarion. (2)Most of the offenders that do change, were compassionate or mild natured people to start with. Their crimes didn't involve force or threats or any of that stuff. Most of their crimes were highly questionable.

 

The odd thing I see is that most of the second kind can tell you all about the first kind. The sad thing is that most of the first kind can easily identify the second kind as easy targets. Most of second kind were molested or abused as well. Most of them were vulnerable to that because of their family or domestic situation. They had no confidence in their walk. True abusers can spot this a mile away.

 

But there again, how did the offenders define their own abuse? Did they think that everyone should go through what they went through, so they can see what it's like? Or do they think that NO ONE should have go through what they went through because of how much it hurt them? I believe you will find the answer right in that question.

 

It's so easy to tell the difference but law enforcement can't seem to figure out what common folks know. If they could figure this out, the bad guys would still be in jail!

[Guest]

I speak from experience with this one. Is it possible to change? Yes but very difficult. I was slapped and put up against walls until I was in 2nd grade, once I got the state to come "check" on my mom the abuse went from physical to emotional. Lowering my self esteem daily. My father stopped putting up against walls somewhere around the same time. My parents are divorced but either place I went was trouble. As I got older I was very very shy, no self confidence and basketball was the only thing that kept me social and somewhat happy. After years of being yelled, cussed out, being made to feel only inches tall. I started to fight back. Cussing, name calling, saying terribly mean things. We did anger counseling for me with 3 different counselors. No one really knew why, they would only state the obvious, listen to me and say do this different. Never got to any roots of problems. Anyways I got older and more dependent and my anger problem helped my parents fix theirs for whatever reasons. My anger was off and on throughout the years, throwing things etc. I dropped out of school and moved out on my own with my best friend when I was 17. Got a girl pregnant. I consequently moved back to my moms, worked two jobs, and did independent study so I could graduate early so I could move in with what is now my daughters mom. We moved in together when she was 4 months along. I was working 16 hour days 6 am to 10 pm. I started emotionally abusing her. We broke up off and on. One day she snapped at me in public and I grabbed her arm in public and pulled her to the car. Something my mom used to do to me... It just got worse from there. I somehow had this idea it wasn't a big deal because she wasn't "hurt". While we lived together police were called various times, I got off on technicalities, didn't even get cuffed. Now we're seperated and my daughter is 13 months. When I was doing it I would cry everytime I had touched her because I knew it was wrong and was disgusted by the actions. But I would still always defend it as not being "real abuse". I've been to counseling since and was told the same basic time every meeting. Only you can fix this. So I did. I spent time soul searching. I've figured out that no one else can make me angry. I make myself angry. I knew it but now I believe it. I've been in arguements and fights since and I've yelled but that's it. I came to a point where I had to look deep inside and ask whether this is who I wanted to be. It was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Every day I feel extreme guilt for what I did and almost hate myself at times for giving up my chance at a true family. Yes people can change, but the change part is very hard and there is always going to be ramificationis. I have my anger under control, now I just have to find a way to deal with the guilt. To get back together with someone like this is possible but a real will to change is the only thing that helped me. People told me I needed help and I knew it but refused to recognize it. Best of luck to your friend.

[sno]

NO NO NO.......About three years ago I was in a very abusive relationship. He beat me many of times. But the last time he beat me it was to kill me. He was on drugs which I did't know about until we moved in togather. One night he was going through withdraw and he didn't have any money to buy some more cocaine. The beating began around 12 and ended about 2 am. He hit me, choked me until I blacked out then wrapped a belt around me neck to continue choking me, hit me with the metal part of the belt, broke my phone so I couldn't call for help. I'm not talking about a couple of bruises, when I looked in the mirror I looked as if I was a monster. My head was so swollen, bruises the size of grapefruit on my legs, you could see the whole hand print on my arm. After it ended he wouldn't go to sleep he sat and watched me, told me how much he loved me, cried while saying look what I have done to my baby. I was out of my head talking crazy. I would say something on accident to make him mad, and he would began yelling again. I quickly snapped back into it and would apologize. I could eat or drink it hurt too bad but that was good. Because 9 am the next morning the police showed up. I was so scared of him at first I wouldn't tell on him, they took him to jail and came back. That is when I told. I was transported to the hospital. I spent about a week in icu at Baptist. I had a broken orbit bone, broken nose, lose tooth, and mainly a hole in my trachea. I wasn't allowed to eat because even a chip of ice may go straight to my lungs and kill me. They wanted to put a feeding tube down me but I wanted to give it a couple of days. They lord let me live that awful experience, I defiantly wasn't going to starve to death. He wanted me here for a reason. And I was right the next day the hole was gone. It grew back on its own!!! The reason I say NO is because this isn't the first time he beat me or the worst time he had beaten or even the longest time he had beaten me its just the time someone called the cops and I was sent to the hospital. Before I have had everything from black eyes, bloody noses, hair pulled out, choked until blacked out, beaten in front of his family, had a miscarriage, broken toes, busted windshield in my car, had to clean blood out from my car, etc etc etc......he told me he loved me, cried, and told me he would never do it again every single time.

[sno]

I think someone could change....but the odds are against them. And if you are being abused just because they promise they will never do it again they are probably lieing....my ex promised church, professional help. But never happened. Flowers, candy, ring, all bs. Before you believe them they need help...and prove that they have changed. If its drugs...whatever they need to recieve the help before you just believe them.

[stronger_daily]

Abusers can change, but like pretty much everyone said, it's so hard that there is no point on wasting your time with trying to make that happen. It can only happen if they want to change and you won't convince them.

 

As for the friend of yours, I was in a relationship that was not good. I pushed my friends away because of my need to be with this man who convinced me that I needed him and that my friends were just jealous.

 

Be there for your friend. One day she'll come to the realization that she deserves better. It might take awhile and I hope it won't hit her as hard as it hit me, but make sure you tell her you don't like the guy, but you won't turn your back on her. And never tell her, I told you so.

 

Just be there. That's the best advice I can give you for how to deal with that. And do yourself a favor and talk to someone or let someone be there for you. It's so painful to watch someone you care about being hurt.

[Guest]

I'm in a situation myself that I don't know what to do.

I'm living with a guy that has issues.

He is extremely jealous.

He is always telling me what I can wear and what I can't wear.

He even watches my chest to make sure no one can see anything through my shirt.

 

If I am speaking to the other sex and make eye contact I'm in trouble he thinks I'm giving them a look. Do you know how hard it is to talk to someone and not look them in the eye. If I'm being friendly I'm flirting.

 

If we go somewhere with his brother in the truck and I'm in the middle he nods for me to scoot over to the point I am joined at his hip so that his brother is not close enough to touch me.

 

He wants to know where I'm at every minute of the day.

 

I could just go on and on.

 

I can honestly say "What a Beautiful Mess I'm In"

[riobikini]

re:

 

Guest: " Can abusers change?"......."I can honestly say "What a Beautiful Mess I'm In" "

 

Abusers *need help* to stop abusing....-and *nothing* is 'beautiful' about the mess you're in- not the feelings of emotional attachment, nor any other reason you can think of.

 

 

Here are some other common reasons why this 'beautiful mess' shouldn't be tolerated:

 

1) Not because of how he's 'nice' when he isn't carrying out this behavior.

 

2) Not the fact he may tell you he cares about you (or loves you).

 

3) Not if he always (or most of the time) apologizes afterwards.

 

4) Not if he's (otherwise) still a great provider.

 

5) Not if he's kind to other people and everyone else thinks he's great.

 

6) Not because he's the father of your kids (or stands in for that role).

 

7) Not because he says he doesn't mean it.

 

8) Not because he says he'll never do it again.

 

9) Not because he says you can't live without him.

 

10) And *certainly* not because you *think* you can't live without him.

 

I wouldn't want to see *my own* daughter living in this kind of situation, so my advice stems from that exact point of view.

 

If you choose to stay -and if he receives no professional help in treating his 'issues', then you can expect more of the same -and perhaps, a worsening situation, over time.

 

*Let the above list of reasons some women rationalize staying with their abusers sink in.*

 

Meanwhile, seek information and help resources available in your area regarding your circumstances, if you need them (I think you could use the back-up, and info covering the broader, longterm picture, myself).

 

Hope this helps.

 

*Take care of yourself.*

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Maria Sofia]

yes they do change... just because someone is abuseive dosn't mean they are bad or anything. it just means you have to go an extra step. they're going to need your help. I don't know what circumstance you are in with this abuseive person. but its posible... and honestly when changeing an abuseive person; doing it with out profesional help will have them last much longer. it helps them pschologicaly.

 

if some one starts to abuse you... do fight them. don't try to hurt them back. take it in. the secret to help stoping an abuser is to show them that even through the pain you still care. talk to them once they are more calmed. make shure they know that they hurt you but that you still care about them. point out good things about them. show them how awesome of a person they are.

 

but most importently show them that there are different things to do then take out there anger on you... togeather you can change them. and permanently too. life is hard. seems like for some more then others. but as long and your strong and use your strangth to make others strong. you'll make it. just keep trying.

[Outcast]

Really, Maria Sofia, you are doing a lot of harm here, IMHO. You were lucky. But most people HAVE tried what you suggest and came to more harm. Anybody who works with abusers will tell you that it is not that easily curable. Your one case is not an example for everyone. It's just an anomaly.

[Craig]

if some one starts to abuse you... do fight them. don't try to hurt them back. take it in. the secret to help stoping an abuser is to show them that even through the pain you still care. talk to them once they are more calmed. make shure they know that they hurt you but that you still care about them. point out good things about them. show them how awesome of a person they are.

So while they are beating you senseless, throwing your pet out the 12th floor window, giving you black eyes and destroying your personal property you should fight them and show them you care?????

 

Me. I'm going to show them how much I care by calling 911 and gettin their butt into court ordered treatment or jail.

 

but most importently show them that there are different things to do then take out there anger on you... togeather you can change them. and permanently too. life is hard. seems like for some more then others. but as long and your strong and use your strangth to make others strong. you'll make it. just keep trying.

I'm sorry this isn't going to work on a true cycle of violence abuser. Their brains are messed up and there isn't anything you can do except leave them.