FRIENDSHIP LOST TO MARRIAGE?

[Third Wheel]

I feel strange posting this up here, but I am hoping someone else may have been through it. I'm a single male in my late 20s and have been struggling recently with my best friend of ten years, who just got married 6 months ago. Not only was I the best man at his wedding, but we've had a pretty tight relationship -- in fact some of our friends would joke we were "brothers."

 

Anyway, since he met this woman, things between us changed. Not that I don't like his wife or vice versa -- not at all, she's a great woman and I couldn't imagine him marrying anyone better. But he has become very hypercritical of me, our friendship, and it hit a low this week.

 

Let me you the story. When we were working out last weekend, I noticed he had put on some weight and, now regrettably, mentioned that he's got a "gut." At the time, he seemed to brush it off, we hung out for a few more hours, he invited me to watch football a couple days later (i wasn't feeling well so I didn't go), and then, a few days later, he called me and told me that "while he didn't make a big deal out of it at the time, after thinking about it, thought my comment was very rude and inconsiderate." The reason? He's had some back injuries over the last 6 months and hasn't really been as active as he'd like to be. He concluded all this with "friends support friends when they're down, and I don't know why you feel the need to put me down, except that it must make you feel better about yourself."

 

By itself, it wouldn't have been much, except that he spent another 20 minutes telling me everything that was wrong with me. He mentioned how he didn't appreciate that I was checking out some girls when we were out to dinner (it was just us -- not like his wife was there and I offended her or something), and that he doesn't think "i've changed at all in 10 years." I also told him of some of the uncertainties I had about the long-term prospects with my current girlfriend, and he took the opportunity in his speech to insist that I tell her my doubts and that, by not doing so, I am "playing her." And that this is just a pattern of pure insensitivity and selfishness on my part which leads to comments like the one I made to him. The final result -- my character was assaulted personally and I was judged an insensitive, womanizing, "bad" friend. To make matters worse, RIGHT after this speech he had to leave -- giving me no time to even say anything -- and while I've tried to call him a couple times, we haven't talked since.

 

Now I am a little in shock because even though I completely understand that my comment was rude, it was said in passing without any motive. I just can't believe that the comment is the source of all this animosity. I think his response of accusing me of being "not a good friend" is over-reacting. The "gut" comment was made without me even thinking about it, but his comments were made AFTER serious thought and included a rather harsh and critical judgment of me as a person.

 

Which brings me now to what role, if any, his new marriage has to do with it. He and his wife are a great couple and they both take great care of each other. Before he met her, he was in a string of unhealthy relationships with insane women and I spent many hours listening to his woes and being there to support him, even when much of the mess was his own making. Furthermore, he's also developed a new friendship and I think they might be a little tighter now than with me, but I don't really know for certain, and, quite frankly, I'm not about competing for friendship -- although part of me believes that this other person is the kind of hypersensitive jealous type who might be.

 

It seems insane to go into this deep kind of reflection and analysis over a friendship. I guess I always took my friends for granted and now suddenly I'm on trial and convicted -- without knowing it. Part of me thinks that he must have talked about this situation with his other friend, or his wife, and they must have put all these thoughts in his head, or something -- I really can't speculate because I just don't know.

 

What I really need to know if this is "normal" when friends go ahead and get married and their "old friends" remain single -- I mean -- our lives are much different now then they used to be, his more than mine of course. It seems he no longer "needs" me in the sense that I was a stable force as he went through insane relationships and he really did not have anyone else he could count on. It seems now he is creating a new life, and looking for ways where I don't "deserve" to be a part of it. In all the years I've known him, he has never levelled such a personal assault on me individually. Maybe he has differing expectations of what I'm supposed to mean as a friend within his new life -- and I'm just not getting it. I do value the friendship enough to find out what it is. I'm open to anyone's experience at all with this kind of situation.

[Laurynn]

Hi there,

 

I read your post twice and I have a few thoughts...some different possible explanations for why your friend is being the way he's being.

 

1) He very likely didn't feel the least bit offended by your 'gut' comment, but there's a good chance he mentioned this comment to his wife (probably in passing) and SHE took great offense to it. Newlyweds are very protective of each other. Good chance that she went on and on and on to him about how rude that comment was, about how you weren't being a supportive friend, bla bla bla. Of course he greatly respects his wife, so he decided that what she said made sense.....so then you got your head chewed off about it. It's possible that she told him that he needed to say something to you about it, to confront you..and him being the happy little newlywed who wants to please his wife, that's what he did. Sorta like a little brainwashing? (I know that's a strong term, but sometimes when you're in a very close relationship (read: new marriage), you're more easily influenced by what your partner says, and you begin to see things more their way, even if you normally wouldn't see things that way.

 

2) Maybe deep down inside, he's envious/jealous of you......that you're still single and free as a bird, and it's hitting him that he's made a lifetime commitment to someone. Yes, they may seem all happy and so forth, but maybe there's a part of him that resents you for the fact that you're still 'free.' SO instead of coming right out and admitting these feelings (if in fact he's even aware of them, they could be quite subconscious), he's taking "tangible" things out on you.....finding some other outlet to express his inner resentment. Make any sense?

 

3) He could be one of those people who thinks that because they're now married, they're now somehow "above" all the single people in the world. They sort of look down their noses at single people, including their friends, thinking single people are all 'lost'......and how they are so much more wise, intuitive, responsible, successful, experienced, bla bla bla. It's a bit of an ego trip, but hopefully it doesn't last long.

 

4) Maybe, although you say his wife is a great gal, she's jealous of the close friendship you and he have had...and she's made some waves in that respect. Little comments here, little comments there, and slowly she's influenced his opinion of you and your friendship. Maybe SHE wants to be the best friend/the ONLY 'close friend' in his life...and she has felt threatened by you....so she's planted little seeds in his mind to turn you against him. Remember, with newlywed couples, each are very easily influenced by the other. Now maybe out of devotion and loyalty to her, he's listening to what she has to say.

 

I don't think your 'gut' comment was the least bit rude. Guys joke around all the time. If it really bothered him, I'm sure he'd have made some smart-crack back to you right after you'd said it. He didn't, so that would say to me that he truly wasn't bothered by it. Unless he's one of those ultrasensitive types....but I didn't get the impression from your post that he's that kind of person (or didn't used to be).

 

Friendship is a two-way street. If he's going to carry on the way he has, which is very immature and disrespectful (in my opinion), let him. I say keep your distance for a couple months. In that time, he'll either get a grip and have some time to realize what your friendship means.......or he's so far gone that there's not much hope.....and you don't need someone in your life who's going to ride your ass and put you down all because you're not in the 'marriage club.' And, if he's that easily influenced by his wifey, then he's not much of a friend to begin with.

 

Hope that helps

 

Laurynn

[Third Wheel]

Laurynn,

 

First off, I have to thank you for taking the time to read that and think carefully about your very thoughtful response -- which is quite insightful.

 

Let me just clarify a couple things so you can get some perspective and feel free to respond if you want (although you've done more than enough and I do appreciate it).

 

My gut says that she's not super-jealous of our friendship, mainly because I'm pretty good at reading people and just don't get the impression that she's insecure about her own value to him in his life where I would be any threat at all.

 

I also don't think they are "snubbing their noses" at the single people. Why? Because of this other friendship he's developed over the last couple years with another "single" friend (and the fact that his wife has single friends too). Now of course, i don't know if their relationship has also been strained because I don't talk to him and am not close enough where I would ever bring it up.

 

However, I would not put it past this other friend to have been the one responsible for putting these thoughts in his head. While she may not be jealous, I think this other friend might be. To make matters interesting, one of the reasons why they got closer over the last few years is that I was out of the area for a time and just recently moved back. Maybe my move back and that I've been spending more time with my friend has made me seem like a "threat" to the other guy.

 

The other guy is also super-sensitive and I think maybe it is rubbing off on him. You asked if my friend was "ultra-sensitive" -- actually, he is largely about his appearance. But it has never been to this level here. And my friend actually used my knowledge of his "sensitivity" as a reason why the comment was so rude.

 

As an aside, this whole thing is just twisted -- I mean -- jealous guy friends, newlyweds, what the heck? I'm just a regular guy with a few close friends and don't quite understand all this superanalysis surrounding this situation -- it seems in some ways very unhealthy. But I have been friends with him for a long time and don't want to lose an old friendship.

 

Anyway, you are quite insightful and if you want to chat more about it, feel free to e-mail me at <e-mail address removed>. I thank you for your reply.

 

Hi there, I read your post twice and I have a few thoughts...some different possible explanations for why your friend is being the way he's being. 1) He very likely didn't feel the least bit offended by your 'gut' comment, but there's a good chance he mentioned this comment to his wife (probably in passing) and SHE took great offense to it. Newlyweds are very protective of each other. Good chance that she went on and on and on to him about how rude that comment was, about how you weren't being a supportive friend, bla bla bla. Of course he greatly respects his wife, so he decided that what she said made sense.....so then you got your head chewed off about it. It's possible that she told him that he needed to say something to you about it, to confront you..and him being the happy little newlywed who wants to please his wife, that's what he did. Sorta like a little brainwashing? (I know that's a strong term, but sometimes when you're in a very close relationship (read: new marriage), you're more easily influenced by what your partner says, and you begin to see things more their way, even if you normally wouldn't see things that way. 2) Maybe deep down inside, he's envious/jealous of you......that you're still single and free as a bird, and it's hitting him that he's made a lifetime commitment to someone. Yes, they may seem all happy and so forth, but maybe there's a part of him that resents you for the fact that you're still 'free.' SO instead of coming right out and admitting these feelings (if in fact he's even aware of them, they could be quite subconscious), he's taking "tangible" things out on you.....finding some other outlet to express his inner resentment. Make any sense? 3) He could be one of those people who thinks that because they're now married, they're now somehow "above" all the single people in the world. They sort of look down their noses at single people, including their friends, thinking single people are all 'lost'......and how they are so much more wise, intuitive, responsible, successful, experienced, bla bla bla. It's a bit of an ego trip, but hopefully it doesn't last long. 4) Maybe, although you say his wife is a great gal, she's jealous of the close friendship you and he have had...and she's made some waves in that respect. Little comments here, little comments there, and slowly she's influenced his opinion of you and your friendship. Maybe SHE wants to be the best friend/the ONLY 'close friend' in his life...and she has felt threatened by you....so she's planted little seeds in his mind to turn you against him. Remember, with newlywed couples, each are very easily influenced by the other. Now maybe out of devotion and loyalty to her, he's listening to what she has to say. I don't think your 'gut' comment was the least bit rude. Guys joke around all the time. If it really bothered him, I'm sure he'd have made some smart-crack back to you right after you'd said it. He didn't, so that would say to me that he truly wasn't bothered by it. Unless he's one of those ultrasensitive types....but I didn't get the impression from your post that he's that kind of person (or didn't used to be).

 

Friendship is a two-way street. If he's going to carry on the way he has, which is very immature and disrespectful (in my opinion), let him. I say keep your distance for a couple months. In that time, he'll either get a grip and have some time to realize what your friendship means.......or he's so far gone that there's not much hope.....and you don't need someone in your life who's going to ride your ass and put you down all because you're not in the 'marriage club.' And, if he's that easily influenced by his wifey, then he's not much of a friend to begin with. Hope that helps Laurynn

[Laurynn]

Hi!

 

Okay, some more thoughts, based on the info you've added.

 

1) Maybe your friend is subconsciously resentful toward you, due to the fact that you'd been gone for a few years. I don't know how well you kept in contact while you were gone (??), but maybe it was really hard for him to deal with you being gone, particularly if you were best friends. Maybe he feels a little cheated?

 

2) Yes, it's very possible that this other guy friend is being a bit of an antagonist, and negatively influencing your friend's opinion of you. Geez, in all honesty, I didn't think guys did that sort of thing. Thought it was mostly women who were possessive of friends like that LOL

 

3) Is it possible that your friend has some deep-seated animosity toward you for some reason you're not thinking of? You say you were the best man at his wedding (which is obviously quite an honor), how were things at the wedding? Did anything 'happen' that might have upset him? Like, you didn't give him a wedding gift, or you were having too much fun there, checking out the single gals? (LOL) Did you forget his last birthday? I'm just wondering if there's maybe something you did/didn't do, said or didn't say that he's told to Girlie Guy (I say that cuz he's so sensitive lol)...and Girlie Guy is trying to get all the mileage out of that he can, by planting negative seeds in your friend's head about you?

 

4) Again, it could just be some subconscious resentment toward you, becuz of the fact that he's now 'tied down' and you're still free as a bird. Maybe he misses the 'days' when you and he were both single, and you hung out and had lots of fun....and now he sees things as being so different, due to the fact that he's married and his life is forever different. Maybe he really misses that kind of friendship he had with you, knows things will never quite be the same, and instead of just admitting these feelings to himself, he's trying to push you away. People do crazy things when it comes to people they care about.

 

The only thing I can suggest, seeing how this obviously bothers you (and understandably so, because you're really not sure what the HECK is going on?!) is call him up and make a plan to go out some evening for drinks/to watch a game or something like that. Something casual. Then casually, and in a very non-confrontational way, ask him what's up. Tell him what you've noticed, tell him you're a little in the dark as to why he's obviously so peeved with you, so judgmental of you.....ask him if you've done or said something to offend you, etc etc. See what he has to say. That seems to me, to be the only way to try and get to the bottom of the issue(s). Whatever you do, maybe don't bring up this 'other friend' and your thoughts that this other friend might be at the root of the problem. That will likely just p*ss him off and make him all defensive.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Laurynn

[Third Wheel]

Laurynn,

 

Many thanks to you again -- I see you are quite prompt in your responses, so I decided to respond and add more.

 

Obviously, with 10 years of friendship behind us, there are a whole lot of facts that may or not be relevant, so I'll tell you what I might think.

 

But before I do -- I don't know if guys also do that jealous-possessive stuff. Truthfully, I'm just grasping at straws because I don't know what else it might be. Because I have no real basis for any of that stuff with "the other friend," I would certainly never bring it up and I tend to think it is, or should be, quite irrelevant to our friendship. I was just throwing out some theories.

 

To point #1 -- while I was away, we kept in great contact. However, during that time, I was going through some personal dilemmas that, in many ways, made me a little less available to be there for him. He had a series of health issues, work issues, and family issues going on and I believe that, at the end of the day, he thought that I wasn't there for him during it.

 

Since then, I don't think it's been an issue, but the crux of those events and situations did lead up to some pre-wedding chaos that resulted in some ill-will. To go into the details would be exhaustive, but since it was 7 months ago when it happened, and the wedding went off beautifully without a hitch, I thought this was in the past and chalked up to the "pre-wedding" jitters and anxiety that, I'm guessing, is very common. Also, I gave them a gift which they have on more than one occassion has said was "generous" and just a couple weeks ago, my friend had a celebration that I did not miss and helped put together.

 

So I really don't think it has anything to do with recent events, except that this "comment" must have stirred something, but it did so belatedly and after careful thought by him. Maybe it just made him rething all the old stuff that happened and put him on the defensive....

 

got me....*clueless*

Hi! Okay, some more thoughts, based on the info you've added. 1) Maybe your friend is subconsciously resentful toward you, due to the fact that you'd been gone for a few years. I don't know how well you kept in contact while you were gone (??), but maybe it was really hard for him to deal with you being gone, particularly if you were best friends. Maybe he feels a little cheated? 2) Yes, it's very possible that this other guy friend is being a bit of an antagonist, and negatively influencing your friend's opinion of you. Geez, in all honesty, I didn't think guys did that sort of thing. Thought it was mostly women who were possessive of friends like that LOL 3) Is it possible that your friend has some deep-seated animosity toward you for some reason you're not thinking of? You say you were the best man at his wedding (which is obviously quite an honor), how were things at the wedding? Did anything 'happen' that might have upset him? Like, you didn't give him a wedding gift, or you were having too much fun there, checking out the single gals? (LOL) Did you forget his last birthday? I'm just wondering if there's maybe something you did/didn't do, said or didn't say that he's told to Girlie Guy (I say that cuz he's so sensitive lol)...and Girlie Guy is trying to get all the mileage out of that he can, by planting negative seeds in your friend's head about you? 4) Again, it could just be some subconscious resentment toward you, becuz of the fact that he's now 'tied down' and you're still free as a bird. Maybe he misses the 'days' when you and he were both single, and you hung out and had lots of fun....and now he sees things as being so different, due to the fact that he's married and his life is forever different. Maybe he really misses that kind of friendship he had with you, knows things will never quite be the same, and instead of just admitting these feelings to himself, he's trying to push you away. People do crazy things when it comes to people they care about.

 

The only thing I can suggest, seeing how this obviously bothers you (and understandably so, because you're really not sure what the HECK is going on?!) is call him up and make a plan to go out some evening for drinks/to watch a game or something like that. Something casual. Then casually, and in a very non-confrontational way, ask him what's up. Tell him what you've noticed, tell him you're a little in the dark as to why he's obviously so peeved with you, so judgmental of you.....ask him if you've done or said something to offend you, etc etc. See what he has to say. That seems to me, to be the only way to try and get to the bottom of the issue(s). Whatever you do, maybe don't bring up this 'other friend' and your thoughts that this other friend might be at the root of the problem. That will likely just p*ss him off and make him all defensive. Hope that helps! Laurynn

[BeenThere]

When you and your best friend hung out (outside of your hour in the gym), what were the circumstances? Did your time together only consist of hanging out in bars and ogling woman? Or did the four of you (you, your girlfriend, your buddy and his fiance/wife) spend any time doing the "couple thing?"

 

I don't have a clear picture here, but I'm thinking perhaps your friend is just outgrowing the friendship. When people marry, their lives and priorities change and so does

 

the way they spend their free time...if they're lucky enough to HAVE any!

 

Unless your friendship has the ability to shift direction to accomodate his new life, it may not be feasible for him any longer. Since I don't have all the facts, I can't really interject any thoughts on this one. But your post is very simular to experiences "J" and I have been going through with some of our own "single" friends. And there have been MANY posts just like yours on this forum in the past.

 

Yes, what is happening between you and your buddy is VERY common. But without knowing what your friendship was like before his marriage, It's impossible to offer any more insite...

I feel strange posting this up here, but I am hoping someone else may have been through it. I'm a single male in my late 20s and have been struggling recently with my best friend of ten years, who just got married 6 months ago. Not only was I the best man at his wedding, but we've had a pretty tight relationship -- in fact some of our friends would joke we were "brothers."

 

Anyway, since he met this woman, things between us changed. Not that I don't like his wife or vice versa -- not at all, she's a great woman and I couldn't imagine him marrying anyone better. But he has become very hypercritical of me, our friendship, and it hit a low this week. Let me you the story. When we were working out last weekend, I noticed he had put on some weight and, now regrettably, mentioned that he's got a "gut." At the time, he seemed to brush it off, we hung out for a few more hours, he invited me to watch football a couple days later (i wasn't feeling well so I didn't go), and then, a few days later, he called me and told me that "while he didn't make a big deal out of it at the time, after thinking about it, thought my comment was very rude and inconsiderate." The reason? He's had some back injuries over the last 6 months and hasn't really been as active as he'd like to be. He concluded all this with "friends support friends when they're down, and I don't know why you feel the need to put me down, except that it must make you feel better about yourself." By itself, it wouldn't have been much, except that he spent another 20 minutes telling me everything that was wrong with me. He mentioned how he didn't appreciate that I was checking out some girls when we were out to dinner (it was just us -- not like his wife was there and I offended her or something), and that he doesn't think "i've changed at all in 10 years." I also told him of some of the uncertainties I had about the long-term prospects with my current girlfriend, and he took the opportunity in his speech to insist that I tell her my doubts and that, by not doing so, I am "playing her." And that this is just a pattern of pure insensitivity and selfishness on my part which leads to comments like the one I made to him. The final result -- my character was assaulted personally and I was judged an insensitive, womanizing, "bad" friend. To make matters worse, RIGHT after this speech he had to leave -- giving me no time to even say anything -- and while I've tried to call him a couple times, we haven't talked since. Now I am a little in shock because even though I completely understand that my comment was rude, it was said in passing without any motive. I just can't believe that the comment is the source of all this animosity. I think his response of accusing me of being "not a good friend" is over-reacting. The "gut" comment was made without me even thinking about it, but his comments were made AFTER serious thought and included a rather harsh and critical judgment of me as a person.

 

Which brings me now to what role, if any, his new marriage has to do with it. He and his wife are a great couple and they both take great care of each other. Before he met her, he was in a string of unhealthy relationships with insane women and I spent many hours listening to his woes and being there to support him, even when much of the mess was his own making. Furthermore, he's also developed a new friendship and I think they might be a little tighter now than with me, but I don't really know for certain, and, quite frankly, I'm not about competing for friendship -- although part of me believes that this other person is the kind of hypersensitive jealous type who might be. It seems insane to go into this deep kind of reflection and analysis over a friendship. I guess I always took my friends for granted and now suddenly I'm on trial and convicted -- without knowing it. Part of me thinks that he must have talked about this situation with his other friend, or his wife, and they must have put all these thoughts in his head, or something -- I really can't speculate because I just don't know. What I really need to know if this is "normal" when friends go ahead and get married and their "old friends" remain single -- I mean -- our lives are much different now then they used to be, his more than mine of course. It seems he no longer "needs" me in the sense that I was a stable force as he went through insane relationships and he really did not have anyone else he could count on. It seems now he is creating a new life, and looking for ways where I don't "deserve" to be a part of it. In all the years I've known him, he has never levelled such a personal assault on me individually. Maybe he has differing expectations of what I'm supposed to mean as a friend within his new life -- and I'm just not getting it. I do value the friendship enough to find out what it is. I'm open to anyone's experience at all with this kind of situation.

[Third Wheel]

These are very good questions.

 

BEFORE he got married, we did a large variety of things together -- including working out, concerts, hitting the beach, etc. While we would "ogle" over women sometimes, he and i both attracted different types of women, so we didn't spend a whole lot of time "getting girls" so to speak.

 

But since he has met her, we have done the "couple thing" before, and also with just the three of us done some of the same things he and I used to do (like hitting concerts for example). I know the days of us and a bunch of single guys renting a place down the beach over the summer are probably done -- and in many ways I'm still in the "single" mentality (where even though I'm dating someone, it hasn't quite gotten to a level where marriage is in the cards).

 

Yeah I think there is some growing/adjustment that is going on here. If there is more information you think is helpful, I would be happy to let you know more as I'm really stumped on what to do. Thanks for your help.

When you and your best friend hung out (outside of your hour in the gym), what were the circumstances? Did your time together only consist of hanging out in bars and ogling woman? Or did the four of you (you, your girlfriend, your buddy and his fiance/wife) spend any time doing the "couple thing?" I don't have a clear picture here, but I'm thinking perhaps your friend is just outgrowing the friendship. When people marry, their lives and priorities change and so does the way they spend their free time...if they're lucky enough to HAVE any! Unless your friendship has the ability to shift direction to accomodate his new life, it may not be feasible for him any longer. Since I don't have all the facts, I can't really interject any thoughts on this one. But your post is very simular to experiences "J" and I have been going through with some of our own "single" friends. And there have been MANY posts just like yours on this forum in the past. Yes, what is happening between you and your buddy is VERY common. But without knowing what your friendship was like before his marriage, It's impossible to offer any more insite...