Spinoff: Why Men Don't Talk

[superconductor]

Many women, here and on other boards of this nature, often wonder why they have trouble getting their man to open up to them about things that are meaningful.

 

This shouldn't be a surprise, really. Men and women communicate differently. Men communicate to exchange information. Women communicate to build relationships. That's why a man-to-man phone call may only last 3 or 4 minutes, while a woman-to-woman phone call can go on until sunrise.

 

Women are typically the experts in "rapport talk" which refers to the types of communication that build, maintain, and strengthen relationships. Rapport talk reflects skills of talking, nurturing, emotional expression, empathy, and support. Men are typically the experts in task accomplishment and addressing questions about facts. They are experts in "report talk," which refers to the types of communication that analyzes issues and solves problems. (

http://ohioline.osu.edu/flm02/FS04.html

)

But there's another reason that's rarely addressed.

 

Men are expected, both by other men and the men's partners, to be strong. Discussing meaningful issues, feelings, goals and desires is often perceived as a weakness.

 

It's not true, of course, but that's the perception.

 

Unfortunately, some women - dare I say most women - who complain that their man won't open up to them often berate the men for doing exactly what they - the women - say they want.

 

I can tell you this from personal and painful experience. I have never, ever, opened up to a romantic partner without my words coming back to bite me at some point in the future. It may be immediately, it may be next week, or it may not be for a year, but it always ends up being stuffed back in my face.

 

Always.

 

There has never, ever been an exception.

 

Now, undoubtedly this has much to do with the way men communicate. Since we're not conditioned, or wired, to openly discuss feelings and such, we'll often fumble around for the right words and it ends up coming out in a Niagara of jumbled phrases.

 

Granted, my experience may not be the norm, but from what I know of my male and female friends, this is an oft-repeated pattern.

 

So, ladies, if you really want a man to open up, you'll have to give him the time, space, and acceptance to absorb what he says without holding it against him. Because the instant he's made to feel on the defensive, he'll revert back to his true male nature, and just keep his mouth shut.

[carmaenforcer]

Very insightful but one reason that was not represented here and the reason I stopped trying to talk with my Wife is the fact that she can not look at things logically or see things from any other perspective other that her own.

Because of this it takes forever to get across to her even when she is dead wrong and a fight is born. Later of coarse after putting my blood pressure through the roof she will admit I was right without actually saying the words.

I told her, I will not be pulled into talking about things with her because she is to difficult to talk to. Not worth the effort. Women like to talk and reason like a soap opera, making the rules up as they go to fit the ending they want.

Men like to lay it down like the discovery channel, at least I do, just the facts and if someone is right, one way or the other I will conceit right away and go on with my day. My woman hates this too, because she wants to spend time arguing and the only time I will argue is if I know and can prove I'm right and the other person is trying to get away with something.

When an illogical emotional person tries to argue with a prepared person ready to debate, with a well planned out and solid point based in fact, it is bound to end in a yelling match.

[ronnieromance]

This is funny. My section got moved upstairs at work. I'm basically surrounded by people wit hvaginas now. I have even more coming in and out to talk about...well, nothing, really. They see each other and compliment eachothers' clothes and s***. Complain about men.

 

I feel like I'm in a long term relationship. It's ridiculous, really. Things get done out of spite, instead of necessity now.

 

 

-R-

[Jersey Shortie]

It is just a frustrating for a woman, arguing with a supposedly "logical" man, when all he wants to talk about is his "logic". Now don't get me wrong, logic is obviously important and is an important and valuable part of a discussion. But to women, our feelings are just as important too. And we want our feelings to be important to the men we care about. Not tell us how over-emotional and stupid we are being. That only makes us less willing to listen to you. Women are more willing to listening to your logical, if you take the time to respect her feelings and thoughts on the issue. You need to respect both sides. Too often men don't respect how a woman feels about something, and women won't listen to his logic because she can't get past the disrespect and frustration she feels at him blowing off her feelings and thoughts.

 

[StayClose]

I know what you're all talking about here. I'm often accused of being non-communicative, but when do share with her my inner dialog about issues personal to me, she'll say my thoughts are "retarded." Or she'll read between the lines and extrapolate what I'm saying to a criticism of her, and get upset at me for putting her down, judging her or "raising the bar."

 

Sometimes I express my point of view carefully and logically, then she'll resond with "But I feel..." making her hunches and feelings more valid that wnything I've thought out.

 

I recently was seeing a female counselor, and after four visits I asked her if she thought I had any communication problems like my wife accuses me of. She said that I seem to beable to express myself clearly. So it's not all women, it's some women, and men they're emotionally attached to.

[ronnieromance]

You know, I just had a pseudo-epiphany about this. If the historical and biological role of the female is nurturer and protector of offspring, and the male is the seed-spreader, hunter gatherer, it makes sense for emotion to be the most vaunted factor in a womans' mind. No?

 

-R-

[Outcast]

It is just a frustrating for a woman, arguing with a supposedly "logical" man, when all he wants to talk about is his "logic".

 

There's no reason women can't be logical too.

 

People, kwitcherbitchin' about 'men' and 'women'. Not all men are taciturn; not all women are emotional flakes. I think people settle far too fast for people they lust for without looking for other vital qualities - like good sense!!!!

 

If you are unable to converse with a man, DON'T MARRY HIM. If your sexy hot mama is an emotional basket case, DON'T MARRY HER. All the sex in the world won't save your sanity when you have to deal with their issues.

[ronnieromance]

There's no reason women can't be logical too.

 

People, kwitcherbitchin' about 'men' and 'women'. Not all men are taciturn; not all women are emotional flakes. I think people settle far too fast for people they lust for without looking for other vital qualities - like good sense!!!!

 

If you are unable to converse with a man, DON'T MARRY HIM. If your sexy hot mama is an emotional basket case, DON'T MARRY HER. All the sex in the world won't save your sanity when you have to deal with their issues.

 

Quoted For Truth.

 

 

-R-

[Kenyth]

Men and women can see things quite differently. It has to do with thought process. Most thought process is learned behavior. Some is genetic though I'm guessing.

 

Men want to exchange information, think about it, formulate a solution, and implement it. We start with a focus on the problem. Women don't necessarily want the problem solved for them. They are upset. They want to feel better about the problem first. The focus is on the problem's impact on them.

 

As you can see, if both sides don't understand where the other is coming from, you can get a very big misunderstanding. The man will ask questions about details that the woman will find tedious and uneccessary because he assumes the woman is talking to him to find an answer or solution. The woman tries to answer what she sees as an irrelevent question as briefly as possible, and keeps trying to impart how the problem makes her feel. She is looking for sympathy, comfort, and validation.

 

The man on the other hand, will be very frustrated as he finds the woman vague and uncooperative in his efforts to exchange critical details and find a solution. He finds the "feelings" chatter irrelavent and distracting from his endeavor to think of a fix for her. As soon as he has an idea on a solution, he will relay that to her and mistakenly think the matter is closed when she agrees with him or will get angry if she ignores it. She agrees or ignores because she want's to talk about the focus she finds important, that he seems to be missing entirely.

 

The result is that she thinks he doesn't care about how she feels, and he thinks she won't listen to reason.

[StayClose]

So what is the solution?

 

Do men need to just sit there bored until the women feels done talking about it before someone can move on to the task of just fixing it?

[Outcast]

John Gray covered this whole topic, complete with a 'how-to' on what to do about it. Key is BOTH people need to try to understand each other's point of view and communication style.

 

I'm not one of those fabled women who 'just want to talk' and don't want to solve problems. And I've heard that so often that I once asked a roomful of women whether they were the sorts who 'just wanted to talk'. Not a one of them were - all of us said what's the point of flapping yer jaws when you have a problem - you got a problem, FIX it.

 

However. It seems there are people for whom 'venting' is a worthwhile exercise for whatever reason and their partners need to accommodate that - and vice versa.

[Jersey Shortie]

I know what you're all talking about here. I'm often accused of being non-communicative, but when do share with her my inner dialog about issues personal to me, she'll say my thoughts are "retarded." Or she'll read between the lines and extrapolate what I'm saying to a criticism of her, and get upset at me for putting her down, judging her or "raising the bar."

 

Sometimes I express my point of view carefully and logically, then she'll resond with "But I feel..." making her hunches and feelings more valid that wnything I've thought out. quote]

 

 

You have to think about how you react when she says tells you your ideas are *retarded* and that you are just being critical. Because she feels that same way when you don't take the time to acknowledge her feelings.

 

It isn't that women don't want their problems solved and it isn't that we can't appriecate when you help us. I think it is rather sweet when guys try to help you solve a problem. But we need you to first acknowledge *first* that our *feelings* are important to you.

 

I can't say how many countless times I came to a guy and openned up about something that was bothering me and how frustrated I became when he wouldn't acknowledge how and why I felt a certain way. Women try to connect with a guy sometimes by being able to share that emotional part of her that is important to her. If he took the time to honestly care about they way something effected me, and then a little later, once I was able to take the time to process my emotions and start thinking about how to fix it, I would totally be open to things he would suggest. Listen to her, not because you have to, because you want to. Then a little later come back to her and say something like: "Hey hunnie, remember how you were telling me about blah blah blah...I was thinking about it. Maybe this would help you...blah blah blah". You will find she will be more willing to listen to you.

[Kenyth]

Outcast. When you ask a question like that, you have to remember that people don't generally have the objectivity to gauge themselves from another persons view point (myself included). My wife believes and act's like she want's problems solved, but in reality, it's not that simple. If I try and come up with "fixes" when she's talking about a problem, many times she'll get irritated with me. I'm a "know it all", or I don't listen well. I've come to the conclusion that she may want the problem fixed, but she doesn't necessarily want me fixing it. She primarily want's to talk about it to a sympathetic and agreeable ear, then come up with the fix herself.

[Guest]

Hmmm.. interesting topic.. maybe this explains my beau's issue ... help me understand please because he certainly isn't....

 

My "beau" and I had a little tiff about 3 months ago. And I haven't seen him since (he is L/D). But I sometimes think he feels bad on how he treated me. But he was "communicating" on a regular basis by email, almost daily, but will not pick up the phone to talk. For a women, this hurts ... he has even invited me, last week, to go on an international trip that he has to take in a few months .. but all in an email ... very odd and for me, so impersonal, since when all was very good we would talk every day .. and now I don't know if I blew it because I wrote him that I didn't think that I could accept an invitation with feeling less than a friend .. i.e. friends talk..

 

that stopped him dead in his tracks and hasn't emailed since ..

 

please help me understand this male behavior ..

[Kenyth]

Hmmm.. interesting topic.. maybe this explains my beau's issue ... help me understand please because he certainly isn't....

 

My "beau" and I had a little tiff about 3 months ago. And I haven't seen him since (he is L/D). But I sometimes think he feels bad on how he treated me. But he was "communicating" on a regular basis by email, almost daily, but will not pick up the phone to talk. For a women, this hurts ... he has even invited me, last week, to go on an international trip that he has to take in a few months .. but all in an email ... very odd and for me, so impersonal, since when all was very good we would talk every day .. and now I don't know if I blew it because I wrote him that I didn't think that I could accept an invitation with feeling less than a friend .. i.e. friends talk..

 

that stopped him dead in his tracks and hasn't emailed since ..

 

please help me understand this male behavior ..

 

 

Have you tried to contact him? If you're waiting for him to chase you down and it's not happening, it's time to take a more proactive approach. He tried to start a dialogue with you and you berated him for it. It's your turn now.

[onmyownagain]

My wife can talk about boring things and conversations she had a work etc. which aren't interesting to me at all, but if you look at it from the point of view that this is better than sitting in silence watching TV, then I will take this any day of the week.

 

It is nice to think she would rather be speaking to me about her day than anyone of her friends instead :-)

[westernxer]

If your sexy hot mama is an emotional basket case, DON'T MARRY HER. All the sex in the world won't save your sanity when you have to deal with their issues.

 

I learned this lesson fairly quickly, and it's become quite an effective barometer when meeting new women. If I feel the slightest agitation in the initial phase of getting to know someone, I pull away. Maybe I'm missing out on fringe benefits, but the headache isn't worth it. I'd rather read a book.

[crystallizedrose]

...the headache isn't worth it. I'd rather read a book.

 

I don't know why, but this struck me as particularly funny.

 

It's only funny 'cause it's true.

[bunset]

My wife can talk about boring things and conversations she had a work etc. which aren't interesting to me at all, but if you look at it from the point of view that this is better than sitting in silence watching TV, then I will take this any day of the week.

 

It is nice to think she would rather be speaking to me about her day than anyone of her friends instead :-)

 

Sounds like you know...

(I sure wish my H learned tat 10 years ago!)

[Mz. Pixie]

Women talk to decompress about their day generally. Men want to be quiet to decompress about their day. Big differences.

 

I'm actually just the opposite. I don't talk just to talk. I'm actually more like a man as far as conversation, especially if I am busy. Just get to the point.

 

My husband is a big talker, even on the relationship. He was like Dr Phil almost when we were dating. It's a bit better now though.

[Guest]

I am in a similar situation to Mz. Pixie. My husband comes home every day and talks about all of the interactions he has at work with his co-workers and at meetings. I hate to say it, but I am not really interested and I don't know what the point is. Why is he telling me this stuff? He'll tell me that he came up with an intelligent response to a question at a meeting. My thought following this is yeah, so what? You are an adult. You should come up with an intelligent response. That is what you are paid for. I don't get it. Then he complains that I don't open up to him. I do talk, but about important things that we need to do, mostly plan for upcoming appointments/events and take care of financial matters. With this type of talk I get nowhere with him. His eyes glaze over and here he can't muster an intelligent response. As far as logic goes, this man does not seem to have any. There is no logic that I can see in the way he operates around the house. It's obvious that when he attempts a household project he has not thought it through and when I start talking about it with him we realize that his plan is ill-conceived.

 

My point is that men and women don't fall into these nice categories of men being logical and women being emotional. I am in a mathematical and computer-oriented profession. I think in terms of mathematics and algorithms for most facets of my life. My husband, however, is more language oriented and can often be annoyingly verbose. We still have communications problems.

 

By the way, for all of you men that don't like to do a lot of nonsense talking, your posts seem pretty long. I guess you have more to say than you thought. Did you "fix" your problem? Or where you just talking it over to "feel" better?

[Guest]

I am in a similar situation to Mz. Pixie. My husband comes home every day and talks about all of the interactions he has at work with his co-workers and at meetings. I hate to say it, but I am not really interested and I don't know what the point is. Why is he telling me this stuff? He'll tell me that he came up with an intelligent response to a question at a meeting. My thought following this is yeah, so what? You are an adult. You should come up with an intelligent response. That is what you are paid for. I don't get it. Then he complains that I don't open up to him. I do talk, but about important things that we need to do, mostly plan for upcoming appointments/events and take care of financial matters. With this type of talk I get nowhere with him. His eyes glaze over and here he can't muster an intelligent response. As far as logic goes, this man does not seem to have any. There is no logic that I can see in the way he operates around the house. It's obvious that when he attempts a household project he has not thought it through and when I start talking about it with him we realize that his plan is ill-conceived.

 

My point is that men and women don't fall into these nice categories of men being logical and women being emotional. I am in a mathematical and computer-oriented profession. I think in terms of mathematics and algorithms for most facets of my life. My husband, however, is more language oriented and can often be annoyingly verbose. We still have communications problems.

 

By the way, for all of you men that don't like to do a lot of nonsense talking, your posts seem pretty long. I guess you have more to say than you thought. Did you "fix" your problem? Or were you just talking it over to "feel" better?