Day 4 of no contact, 1st counseling session today...

[Plato1969]

I haven't posted my story here, just been reading everyone else's. trying to glean some wisdom.

 

To summarize, my wife and I seperated last week. I was devastated, but she wanted to leave and get her space. She has moved most of her things into storage and is currently staying with her mother. We have 2 children, 8 and 5, and are switching off every day. We are unlikely to bump into each other as she will drop the kids off at the sitter's on her days, and I pick them up, and vice versa. Phone contact has been minimal, mostly just to say goodnight to the kids. I've been letting her calls go to voicemail, otherwise. When I have talked to her, I have been pleasant and positive, but short. She asks how I'm doing, I tell her "good." I tell her have a great day/night and usually get off the phone as soon as possible.

 

So I haven't seen her in 4 days, since the weekend when we exchanged the kids. We had talked for about an hour then, and there was crying, pity, and it just sucked. I've since resolved myself to giving an air of moving on and giving her the space she so desperately wants.

 

Tonight we start our first marriage counseling session. I'm looking for advice on how to handle seeing her, what to say, etc. I have a good idea (compliment her, be confident, act like I'm getting along just fine) but really want to make the right impression.

 

I still want this marriage to work, and still love her tremendously. But I know work has to be done on both sides if there is to be a chance. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Gunny376]

You might want to work on the procasternation thing ~ shezzzzz! LOL!

 

I say this ~ because if you had posted FOUR days ago ~ I would have told you to sit down with pen and paper, and to be anticipanary in the topics that would be coming up ~ and then prepare THREE possible repsonses. This is not just for the topics and issues that you know of ~ but the ones that you can gather from here, from the expereices of olthers. That's what we call in military terms pre-emptive training ~ but in your case ~ engaging brain housing unit ~ before engaging mouth operating system ~ which tends to go "auto" is not kept in check.

 

The next thing ~ is pay attention to detail. Your apperance, your attitude ~ check any negative one at the door, better yet just leave it at home.

 

Remember, she's the walk-a-way spouse, so the issues are more about you than her. So, what that means is that you need to listen twice as much as you speak. But, don't just sit there like a bump on a log, be participatory with BODY LANGUAGE leaning forward the speaker as though you're interested, no folded arms or legs, lots of eye contact. Lean into the speaker. Mirroring the body lanaguage (but oh so subteley ~ almost gentle)

 

Attitude is EVERYTHING. No "Yea, Buts,.........................." If you've got to point fingers, look at the three you've got pointing back at yourself. Keep the wussy behavior to a mimimum, no begging, pleading, all of that. But, don't be a jerk either. Be, act, conduct yourself like a man, but no wussy stuff, no a**h*** stuff. Balanced, sure and steady! Exude confidence, confidence ~ fake it until you make it if you have to. Appear up-beat.

 

If you can't offer at least three (ok ~ at least one) possible solution ~ to an issue or problem ~ keep your damned mouth shut ~ you're just bitching. Attempt to be part of the solution ~ not part of the problem! Strive to be part of the answer not part of the question. Listen to the problems and issues that have lead to you this ~ but try to foucs on the present and future ~ and what you can do about right here and now to fix it, resolve it and keep it there ( its a llifetime sentence Buddy ~ there's no pardon ~ no reprive)

 

Most of all understand that women are much more emotionally in-tuned with their emotions and feelings ~ and thus are prone to make decisions based upon feelings OR the lack of their presence. Thus, why a woman who otherwise has the perfect life, perfect husband, who is a great provider, doesn't run around, etc will walk on him ~ because she misses her love fix, (endorphines runnning around in the brain housing group ~ that eventually wear off.

 

Case in point ~ I just had a Bro who went through this. Married 20+ years, one child, grown and gone. House they've lived in all of these years, bought and paid for, mortgage paid ~ deed in the safe deposit box. Wife puts in to build a new BIGGER house in a much more expensive nehiborhood ~ now the only child is grown and gone ~ and she wants a bigger house.

 

After three years, the wife FINALY makes her mind up on the house design. They get a construction loan ~ built the new bigger house ~ find a buyer for the old PAID FOR HOUSE, and then at the last minutes she tells him "We're going to have to sell the NEW house, I can't move from the old one ~ there too many memories attached to it.

 

My buddy who was oppossed to all of this to begin with, is about to climb the walls, because he's looking at it, and making decision from the rational and logical mind of a man ~ she's making decisions more from her emotional mind and less than her logical and rational mind.

 

Women CAN be some of the most rational and logical of people ~ its just that their more in-tuned with their emotional mind ~ which men aren't which is what drives us men so absolutely crazy.

 

When dealing with the wife, (or any woman) you've just got to step back and figure where what she's saying is coming from, logical and rational or emotional or somewhere in between. BTW, this is not incogruent thinking on her part. If she makes a decision based on raw emotion she WILL reconcile it logically and rationally ~ and visa versa.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Guns

[Plato1969]

Thank you Gunny. I've spent the better part of the day, preparing for this session (instead of working, lol.) I think I was on the same page as you on many of the things you mentioned, and completely oblivious on the rest. But I think I'm ready and have written the topics and my responses. Made me think about it, which was good.

 

I appreciate your insight and thorough response. You're a good man.

 

Thanks again!!

 

PS> Now this is entirely hypothetical, but what if after the session, she wants to come home with me? I HIGHLY doubt that would happen, but I don't know what the right answer would be. I know what my first reaction would be (Yes!) but not sure if that would help or hinder matters.

[dgiirl]

Go in with no expectations, be honest and also listen. I wish you the best of luck, but dont put everything on this one session. The first session is always just an introduction session for the therapist to get up to speed on things. Good luck

[Gunny376]

Now this is entirely hypothetical, but what if after the session, she wants to come home with me? I HIGHLY doubt that would happen, but I don't know what the right answer would be. I know what my first reaction would be (Yes!) but not sure if that would help or hinder matters.

 

Then you would be making a very short term decision with long term negative consequences.

 

You're back to square one pal ~ scratch that ~ you're across the state line from square one the day you meet this gal. You've got to get the issues out in the open first, and then

 

You've got to work on them individually and as a couple

You've got to come back together as a couple

You've got to re-build attraction on all levels

You've got to re-build desire

You've got to re-build passion

 

Let me put it to you this way.

 

Do you remember when you first meet your wife, and there was all that smiling, flirting, teasing, laughing going on and she was receptive to you, and you were trying to get her to go out with you?

 

Now, do you remember that same girl when she was absoutely PO with you?

 

The former is where you've got to work your way back to except this time its going to take a hell of a lot more time, energy, effort to get there, from where your at now, (hint ~ the later) You've got to convince her that your willing to change ~ and then change ~ and then stay by to stand by when she tests you see if you're slipping back.

 

It would have been easier to do a little each day to maintain the level of attraction, desire, passion ~ than to let it slip just a little each day, because once you've started slidding down that slippery its a MF getting back on top.

 

If you've got "re-build" the seduction, Dude. You had it, you let it slip, so now you've got to go back to square one and start over, leaving no stone un-turn. You've got to re-build the passion.

 

Remember how passionate" it was the first time you made love ~ she was holding back, making your work for it, which made you work all the harder ~ (Yes, she knew exactally what she was doing) ~ well not you've got to work twice as hard for it. Do you want your wife back or just sex? If you're in it just for the sex ~ walk and walk now ~ you're wasting your time.

 

Look at it this way ~ its a dance ~ with certain steps, certain moves, and a certain rhythmn ~ and you got out of rhythm and out of step, and now you've got to work to get it back ~ and it won't come easy. You've got to work for it ~ and you've got to want it.

[Gunny376]

Look longinly into her eyes, as though you were searching for something in them

 

Cup her face into your hands lightly, gently.

 

Look into her eyes again.

 

If she shows signs of encouragement

 

Kiss her ~ bitting her lips with your lips, pull back

 

NO TOUNGE!!!!! NO FRENCH KISSING! DON'T TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY BUT HER FACE!

 

Take a deep breath of her neck, tell her perfume is intoxicating

 

Look into her eyes again, same as before

 

Kiss her again as above

 

Smell her hair, tell her it drives you mad!

 

and then repeat for a third time, the last time pull away, and breath a "sign" and look away ~ almost painfully.

 

And, then gently say "No! No! It can't come that easy, I've, (I didn't say we, you're not French, and you don't have a mouse in your pocket, I said I've) have got to work for it, for you!"

 

And, then walk away. One step at a time.

 

This shows you've got confidence, self control over yourself, self discipline, women like that in a man.

 

Even if she did do it, it would be a test Dude!!!!!!!! You've got to stay with the damn script!!!! You've got to dance the dance, and you've got to stick with the story line. Slow, and steady, one step at a time! You've go to re-light her pilot light first ~ before you can ignite a passionate raging fire.

[Plato1969]

Okay, just wanted to put down the experience of this first session in words so I've got a record of it (to reflect back on) and to get some feedback.

 

I tried not to go in with any expectations (but I was hopeful, can't seem to help that.) I was upbeat, smiling, and friendly when we were waiting for the counselor. I think I did a pretty good job of looking confident, attentive, positive and caring. I think I can build upon that and improve.

 

I DEFINITELY spent at least twice the time listening as I did talking. I never crossed my legs or arms, made as much eye contact as possible, shut my yap even when I didn't agree with what she was saying.

 

So the session starts off my our reasons for being there. Mine is clear. Save the marriage. My wife's...not so much, but she said, verbatim, "it would probably take a miracle to get me to stay." She also said it probably couldn't hurt, and that she was also there because I asked her to do it.

 

I had to describe what I had done over the years to make her want to leave. I went over a laundry list of things, but never excused anything I had done. I kept what I said to how I felt in certain situations and did not assume that I knew what she was thinking or feeling at those times. I made it clear, when I made perceptions, that I really didn't know what she was thinking, that it just felt that way at the time. I did not blame or point fingers. In all, I felt pretty good about it. I was honest, calm and sincere.

 

My wife was honest about her feelings, but assumed how I was feeling time, after time, after time. When I got my turn to talk, I went back twice to just make a point as what I was really feeling in situations she mentioned. I picked my "battles", but there were a lot of wrong assumptions. I kept quiet and listened. A common theme with her was she kept bringing up things from the past that she said made her greatly unhappy...things she had never expressed to me before. When confronted with that, she said she didn't want to be confrontational, she wanted to maintain the illusion of happiness. There were several instances where she fully supported something I had done (I used to travel for a competitive sport for example) but she resented it pretty much the whole time. I pointed out that she supported me in my ventures, she admitted she did outwardly, but she still held resentment.

 

She went over how she was a stay at home mother, with low self-esteem, and I admit, I helped lower that self-esteem at times. I also expressed how I didn't always feel appreciated as the provider and wished we could have been more supportive of each other.

 

So, without writing a book, she thinks there is too much water under the bridge to invest herself back into this relationship. I dunno, maybe there is. Of course, I'm willing to forgive her transgressions, but I can't tell if she can even consider it for me. Throughout the session, never a voice was raised, or anger shown. It was actually kind of friendly. Is that weird? I mean she obviously holds some anger towards me, or resentment for what I have done, but it's not coming out. She says she wants us to have a good relationship outside the marriage for the kids and because she doesn't want me to hate her.

 

There's probably a lot more that I'm glossing over, but that's a pretty good idea of how it went. We did schedule another appt. for next week.

 

We talked on the way out to the cars...friendly. She was apologetic about how she left, almost tearing up. She talked about the apartment she got, and about getting the rest of her stuff and some stuff for the kids (they will be splitting time between homes) this weekend. She said she thought it was still a good idea that we are apart for now. I agreed.

 

She asked for a hug as I turned to go to my truck.

 

Couple of more things that confused me. Signals or not?

 

She called me a couple of times (I let it go to voicemail) before the meeting asking if we were going to go from our house together (she was dropping the kids off there with my mother) or meet there. I was clear in an e-mail that we would meet there. We did go seperately, because I didn't return her call until it was almost time to be there.

 

While she was at the house, she was on my computer, supposedly printing directions (I think it's true) to the counselor's office. She opened a word document with her name and date on it ( checked to see if she was snooping around my computer and the most recently accessed file was that one.) It was a letter I wrote to her recently, but had not given to her yet. Not sure when I will. Anyway, I called her. Said Hi and asked, "what did you think about the letter?" Couple of seconds of silence...she at first said "what letter?" I said, "the one you opened" She said, "I was only on the computer for a few seconds, had to get the directions and get going. I saw the file with my name on it and opened it, but didn't have time to read it." She said she was sorry for making me feel violated and wondered if I would ever feel like giving it to her, or maybe it was "I don't know if you'll feel like giving it to me now". I said I wasn't sure how I felt about it, but I wasn't angry. I stayed pleasant.

 

So, sorry for the long post and unorganized thoughts. I'm just dumping everything from my head right now.

 

Still in love with her, and working hard to win her back. Gunny, thanks again for the advice, I came to the same conclusions after I had a good chance to think about it. Wasn't even a remote possibility anyway. I think I have a ways to go before any kissing occurs. Not seeing the signals.

 

Dgiirl, thanks for the support. What a long day, I'm going to bed. ;-)

[Plato1969]

Yesterday was tough. I felt almost as bad as I did when we had first separated. Hopeless, self-pity, taking all the blame, etc. Plus I was grasping at straws for every little positive sign I saw coming from her. Searching for crumbs. Well, I stifled that crap and spent the better half of yesterday playing with my kids and getting my house back in order. When she comes to the house today, she will see some of the changes I am making, how the house is starting to regain it's shape. By Sunday or Monday when she comes to move the rest of her things, the house will look and feel completely different than when she left. Best thing of all, I'm not doing it for her, I'm doing it for myself and my kids. I want them to feel like they're at home when they are with me. No piled up laundry, no dirty dishes, clean floors and bathrooms, and clean rooms too. The opposite would describe how it was when my wife and I were together.

 

I'm losing weight too. Some of it from not eating a lot, but I have been exercising more regularly. Lost 10 lbs in the last 2 weeks. That's 40 total since Dec. '05 when I turned myself around and tried to become the "perfect" husband. That didn't turn out so well, since she still left, despite all my efforts ("doing backflips" to use her words) but I am still moving forward to becoming a better man. If not for her, then maybe for someone else down the road.

 

I was diagnosed with depression not long after the seperation. I found out I was severely depressed when I sought more personal counseling through my employer's assistance program. Talked to a Dr. over the phone and he suggested I was in fact suffering from depression (probably for many years), and that I should go to my Dr. and get it diagnosed and treated. Did that the same day. So I got diagnosed, and there may be a possibility I am bi-polar as well, but I need a further psych exam. But I am on treatment. Medication and reading a cognitive behavioral therapy self-help book.

 

I have my personal counseling session set up the day before my marriage counseling session. I feel like I'm moving onward. I still have my ups and down, but as far as the wife is concerned, I'm dealing well, up-beat, and pleasant.

 

I don't have the expectation that I will pull off the miracle that my wife says I need to make her stay, but I expect that I will be happy again someday. It's difficult to believe that at times, especially when I think of our family being broken up. She just doesn't seem to get that part of it. While we initially discussed separation, I told her taht there were at least 3 people in this family that wanted this marriage to work. She said 1 unhappy person is one too many. Well, now there are 4? I've been told before that it sounds like it's all about her. What she wants, what she desires. Looking back, it probably was and still is. Her passive-aggressive tendencies might have masked a lot of that. I suppose when I finally peel the skin off this onion, I'm gonna find the truth. But of course! I'm Plato!

[Becoming]

Plato--I feel for you. I know the pain you're in to some degree.

 

But I'm going to tell you something I observe from your posts that may feel a little bad, though I mean only to help you win your family back and have the marriage that both you and your W desire together.

 

It seems like you're acting, going through the motions of behavior without any emotion. Of course, there are so many emotions roiling around in you right now you may not trust them. And you may well have shared these with your W, so I may be out of line. In which case, please forgive.

 

But sometimes what women want is to see that they affect their man. If we don't see the vulnerable person inside, we can't take care of them. Just like she didn't allow you to take care of her by refusing to tell you what was going on with her years ago.

 

She may not be ready to face all her issues that caused her to not share her real self with you (and I suspect anyone). You can't control that, of course.

 

But no one wants to be married to Mr. Spock who's perfectly rational and in control all the time. Tell her what you really feel if you haven't.

 

It's hard having your heart ripped open and your guts spilling out. Very painful stuff. So painful, we often try to protect ourselves from it, but the protection becomes its own pain further down the road, as I've found out. So it's good that you've got the support you need to go through this--drs., therapists, marriage counseling, child care--because it's probably one of the most painful things you'll ever have to face.

 

It's ok to feel.

 

But I know that I was so afraid I'd never stop crying that I wouldn't be able to function if I really did feel. And honestly, there's some truth in that--the feelings can overwhelm us to the point where we can't do life, as you've probably experiened. What sometimes helps is to set a timer and give yourself permission to spend an hour journaling, thinking, letting the feelings out in whatever way works for you (racket ball or floor scrubbing for anger, for example).

 

You're doing well--all the right things, it sounds like--cleaning up yourself, your home, taking care of kids, getting help for depression. I'm sorry it hurts so much. But your W fell in love with you once . . . so who knows? Give it time; she has to see the changes are for real and not a ploy to get you back and then do whatever happened to make things bad all over again.

 

She didn't fall in love with the actor, though; she fell in love with YOU--the vulnerable real you who'll be a fool head over heels in love and not be afraid to express it (like in the movie Hitch).

 

Stay in the process, regardless of what she does. Your heart isn't just breaking; it's breaking open.

[Gunny376]

obtaing and maintaing balancce. Becoming is right ~ women don't want a Mr. Spock ~ but they don't want a wuss either ~ they want someone who is control ~ of themselves, and their lives ~ and as often is the case it is way to easy to let your life out from underneath you.

 

That's why we should all pace ourselves in our lives, achieve balance, and keep it as simple as possible.

 

The media, the adverstising-consumer-credit industry bombards daily with how we should be living our lives, and how we're 'no bodies" if we don't have this or that, or the latest gadget.

 

Most of all we got to be ourselves, and our true natures.

 

Me? Well I had a woman ask me once ~ "Gunny? Why don't men like me? I told her, "Because you're a bitch, but you don't know you're a bitch! Me? I'm an a**h***, but I know I'm an a**h***! A 'loveable' asshhole ~ but an a**h*** none the less!"

 

You let go of your fear ~ to include the fear of losing your wife ~ the fear of living alone for the rest of your life ~ the fear of failure ~ the fear of sucsess, the fear of not living up to someone's else's expectations, get and keep your life organized and just be yourself and your life simple ~ you my man will be a lot happier.

 

When I was in sales I learned that you can become so focused on the outcome, that you screw up the process ~ thus you screw up the outcome. Its the process that matters, the process of living your life ~ and of becoming. Of letting go of the fear, of letting go of the fallacies, the myths. Its the process of de-stressing your life, simplifying your life, living your life ~ day by day ~ the f**king outcome of it all is already known and pre-determined ~ your going to die one day!

 

If you had known then what you know now then you wouldn't be where you're at now, but you didn't ~ and so there your freakin' are. Its one of those "life and learn" deals.

 

Depression? I was the freaking "poster child" for depression. And, the solution is simple, "Get over it and move on!" s*** happens.

 

I can hear you now, "Its not that easy?!" Yea, it is Dude ~ its just that simple ~ get over it and move on. Let it go, because they're ain't s*** you can do about the past ~ what's done is done ~ and can't be un-done, that just how the past works. That simple ~ that easy.

 

Do whatever you've got to do, go for a run, scream, shout, jump up and down, take out part of the wall, whatever to get it out of your system, then re-boot your hard drive and start over ~ with lessons learned.

 

You want you wife back? Then let her go, and I mean really let her go. Its one of those, "We had to destroy the city in order to save it!" type ironies of life. Sometimes, Life is just too f**king ridculious to live, and you've just got to laugh at the irony and absurity of it all!

 

Get over her? Hell, man its been sixteen years, and there are still days when I'm clicking along through life, just as happy as can be ~ and I'' experice something that will take back to that dark place in my mind, and if I'm not careful I'll end up at the liquour store telling the clerk, "**** it! Just give me two fifth's of anything your got!"

It can be like dragging a dead horse around withh you everywhere you go. Everyone's looking and pointing at you, saying "Hey Dude, did you know you're dragging a dead horse around with you?" And, you say, "Yea! I know!"

 

What's the use in that? What's the utility in that? What's the purpose of that? What does that solves? What does it resolve? What does it achieve? What does it accomplish? What does it un-do? What does it prevent? NOTHING!

The day you make the conscious decision to let go and quit dragging dead horse(s) around everywhere you go ~ is the day your life will improve 110%!

The bottom line to this is:

 

Your wife left you because ________________ (fill in the blank) and __________________ and ________________, and now she wants out of the marriage, a divorce etc, and it will take a miracle to get her to come back.

 

What one woman (man) would abuse, and another one could certainly use! There is no shortage of available, women out here, the freaking place is covered up with them, and most of the time they've sitting around complaing that all the good men are either taken ~ or they're gay.

 

The amount of time, effort, energy and money, you're trying to get this one back would probablly get you 10 other women for 1/10th of the effort.

[Plato1969]

Becoming,

 

No offense taken...

 

Yeah, I suppose my posts come off as unfeeling. I've been taking care of the kids since Wednesday and trying to put my house back in order, so I have little time to post here. So I try to get direct and to the point. However, I have told her how I feel, and I mean really told her. Verbally as well as through writing. I'm still writing her letters, sharing my innermost thoughts, feelings, etc. She just hasn't gotten them yet. When and if she wants to give up a little of her space, then I might give them to her. But I'm not dangling a carrot in front of her, my letters are as much for me as they are for her, and when the time comes to share them, I will. Right now, I believe she wants her space and not become further confused. I am letting go to an extent, but it is still very early in the separation. I'm trying the best I can, day by day.

 

One of things I believe I have really learned this year is how to share my feelings, and that it's okay. I'm still learning, but personal counseling has really helped me open up and not be afraid anymore. In fact, all I want to do right now is share my feelings with my wife, but she wants her space and I am giving it to her in every way I know. So I share my feelingas and troubles with close friends and family. I would have never done this before, but now I confide in people, tell them my problems. I used to think, why would anyone care about my problems? I always thought I would sound like I'm bitching or whining. But I found that my friends and family do care, and it's been liberating.

 

So no matter what happens, if she stays or goes, I will go on. I will find happiness again.

 

Gunny - Thanks so much for the advice. You've really inspired me to do what's best for me, and it's helping me get though this. Yesterday was a bad day, today is a good one. I'm deep cleaning my house and it feels great to put things back in order. I setting things right in my life in many facets. If she comes back or not, I'm creating an environment that will be comfortable and ensure happiness for myself and my kids.

 

I wish I could post more now, but daylight is waning and I want to get done before I pick up the kids tomorrow.

 

thank you so much Becoming and Gunny for posting to me and caring.

 

Plato

[Becoming]

Hang in there. I cleaned, too, when my H and I were separated. It was about all I could do besides keep the children going. At least I had control over one aspect of life--a clean frig, stove, floor, walls, curtains, windows. I was one cleaning wild woman.

 

And H and I managed to work our problems out over time. It was hard, but any marriage is, I think, especially when the children are young.

 

Blessings and prayers for shalom to you, P.

[Plato1969]

Well, wife is supposed to come today while I'm at work to get the rest of her things. The house is immaculate with the exception of a few areas where she still has stuff. Should shock her. It helped to keep my mind off of things while I was cleaning, but now that it's done, I am still down in the dumps. I guess it's because she's taking one more step away from me. I'm still trying to portray a pillar of strength, but it's far from what I'm really feeling. It's been a real effort to try and stay upbeat around the kids, but I'm trying my best. it hurts because she took them to the swimming pool at the new apartment and they were so excited about it. I know it's wrong to feel, I guess, "jealous" of something like that, but it's hard to take that your kids are becoming comfortable with the situation. I guess I want them to share some of my misery. How pathetic I've become. Of course, I do make sure they have a good time when they are with me, but then I start thinking down the line about all the new things they are going to do, and people they might meet, and I'm already feeling hurt that I have to split my time with them now, when only a couple of weeks ago, I would see them every day. I mean, I cuddled with my wife in bed on June 17th, and now I am completely cut off from her.

 

Forgive me, this is all about me feeling sorry for myself. I'm sure it happens to everyone.

[Gunny376]

............................ The house is immaculate with the exception of a few areas where she still has stuff. Should shock her.

 

 

Do this for yourself ~ the best way to try and impress someone is to not and try and impress them

 

 

It helped to keep my mind off of things while I was cleaning, but now that it's done, I am still down in the dumps.

 

All that it means is the you need to find other things to keep you busy and quit obsessing...............

I guess it's because she's taking one more step away from me. I'm still trying to portray a pillar of strength, but it's far from what I'm really feeling. It's been a real effort to try and stay upbeat around the kids

 

Do what works, don't do what doesn't work. Keep adapting, finding new coping methods ~ strategies

, but I'm trying my best. it hurts because she took them to the swimming pool at the new apartment and they were so excited about it. I know it's wrong to feel, I guess, "jealous" of something like that, but it's hard to take that your kids are becoming comfortable with the situation.

 

Children are very adaptable ~ more so than adults, becuase they've yet to become ridgid in their belief system ~ their children ~ still learning and still growing, and afterall she's still "mommie"

 

 

How pathetic I've become.

 

NEVER! NEVER PUT YOURSELF DOWN!!!!!! QUIT BEATING YOURSELF UP! YOU AND YOU ALONE ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMY.

EVERYTIME YOU FIND YOURSELF THINKING A NEGATIVE THOUGHT, STOP YOURSELF, FLIP IT AROUND INTO A POSITIVE THOUGHT AND REPEAT IT ALOUD TEN TIMES!

 

 

 

Forgive me, this is all about me feeling sorry for myself. I'm sure it happens to everyone.

 

Yes, it does! Keep moving forward!

[Plato1969]

thanks for the support Gunny. It took the better half of the day, but I finally found something else to do. Calmed me down. One day at a time...

[dgiirl]

Gunny's absolutely right here. We tend to be our worst enemy and beat ourselves up. Plato, dont feel bad. We've all been where you are. The depression and fear is bad, but trust me, things will get better. One of the things I forced myself to do in the early stages was get dressed/showered and out of the house every single day, even on weekends. I needed to get up and dressed and out. If I didnt, I slipped into depression. Be kind to yourself and patient with yourself. On average, it takes someone 2 years to get over a divorce. So if you are still semi functional, you're doing your job!

 

This is also the time to start doing new things. I often went out for a walk and took my digital camera and explored the city. I became a tourist. It was a lot of fun and it exhausted me so much that by the end of the day I could actually fall asleep. The first month or two, I was so so tired, but any day I stopped being active, I got bad. Crying and stuff for the whole day. I also spent a lot of time at the local library reading almost every single self help book. They helped a lot and I learned a lot. I also learned to cook, met up with friends, did a whole bunch of stuff I was scared to do in the past. Right now is the time to try new things. Challenge your comfort zone and you will feel so good about yourself.

 

And one other thing, dont appologize for venting. All this negative energy needs to get out. Either it will come out now in a healthy way, or you can keep it all bottled up until eventually it comes out in an unhealthy way. You can either take the time for yourself now, or your body will force you to take time in the near future with a trip to the hospital because of all the stress. For the first year, divorcees have a MUCH higher rate of accidents than anyone else. So take the time now and let yourself feel what you need to feel. Let it out.

[Plato1969]

Thanks dgiirl. I got things back into perspective yesterday, but think I slipped up last night toalking to the wife and seeing her today when she picked up the kids. Last night I brought up our marriage vowes and asked if she was still going to honor them. She said she was, and she was too busy with work and talking care of the kids to even think about anything else. Of course, i said I would too. We talked some more, and we have a good understanding of things and how they are going, I think.

 

When she came over to pick up the kids, I said she looked great, she said I did too. While the kids were getting out the door and to the car, I just kinda blurted out, "you're beautiful". She said "thank you. I wish you had said the more the 1st 8 years together.' I said that "I saying it now and have been for quite some time. I said I wasn't trying to put a guilt trip on her, and that I just wanted her to know that I miss her, and miss her being at home with me. I also told her that I understand why she is doing this and that I agreed that it needed to be done. we hugged, and I started to tear up. It felt so good to have her back in my arms. I didn't want to let go. She said it's not like we're not going to see each other, and that we're still doing counseling together. I said that I knew, but it just wasn't the same.

 

In any case, I let my emotions out, probably too much. But I told her what I was feeling. It's so hard because we are so friendly to one another, it's hard to imagine that we aren't together. It would almost be easier if there was some serious hate involved.

 

So now I guess I'll wait to see the fallout form that. Maybe there won't be any. Keep telling myself I need to be patient, and I think I can do that better now, since my spirits are up quite a bit since yesterday. Been keeping myself busy and that has helped.

 

Her birthday is coming up this Friday, and I don't know what to do. I know what I would like to do, but not sure how much is too much or too little. Since I kinda hosed the whole NC thing last night and today, doing nothing would seem like the worst course of action. BTW - I won't be seeing her on her birthday, and I believe she is going out with her friends and family.

[Becoming]

It sounds to me like she's wanting you to show more emotion than perhaps you have in the past. She needs to know how important she is to you, how you feel about her, that she can affect your feelings for good or ill, that it feels good to have her in your arms again, etc.

 

What do you WANT to do for her birthday? You may not see her, but what can you do to show her how glad you are she's on the planet?

 

She may have wanted the separation to get you to see she needs more romance from you, like when you were dating, before jobs and children wear our marriages down.

 

Have you checked out marriagebuilders .com?

[Plato1969]

It sounds to me like she's wanting you to show more emotion than perhaps you have in the past. She needs to know how important she is to you, how you feel about her, that she can affect your feelings for good or ill, that it feels good to have her in your arms again, etc.

 

What do you WANT to do for her birthday? You may not see her, but what can you do to show her how glad you are she's on the planet?

 

She may have wanted the separation to get you to see she needs more romance from you, like when you were dating, before jobs and children wear our marriages down.

 

Have you checked out marriagebuilders .com?

 

The indication I get is too little too late, but I am learning that I can't "mind-read" and I really have to go by what she says.

 

Yesterday, she came and picked up the kids and was supposed to do the 4th of July thing with them. I went to a friend's house and celebrated there. Left about 9pm (didn't really feel like watching other families light off fireworks) and gave her a call to say good night to the kids. They were asleep, but she said she was going to get them up and take them somewhere to watch fireworks. She then asked if I would like to come or if we should get some fireworks and light them off with the kids. I quickly said yes. We met at our house and spent almost 3 hours lighting off fireworks and watching them in the distance. At the end of the night, she said taht was the best 4th of July she has ever had. She gave me a long hug and kissed me on the cheek. Never thought THAT would mean so much to me. I helped her get the kids ready to go back to her place, and after that I was happy, excited and flying high.

 

It was the best part of my day, and the best I have felt in weeks.

 

Today, I decided I was going to do something for her birthday. Having something delivered to her work, with an original poem I wrote that I think will really surprise her (have never wrote to her like that.)

 

I have checked out marriage builders, and we did the Emotional Needs questionaire a few months ago. We did not do a follow up, like we intended, but I believe many of the things we wrote down were improving. I feel like we could benefit a lot from the information on that site, but I'm not sure she is willing to do anything other than counseling right now.

 

Session #2 is tomorrow, and I have my personal counseling tonight. Hope things progress...

 

Thanks Becoming. I'm not entirely sure what she wants right now, other than to be on her own so she can sort things out. Work on herself. Prove that she can live on her own. I'm working on myself too and trying to show her the changes I have made, but I'm giving her breathing space and not trying to push for anything other than what she is willing to give.

 

So far, I've lost 45 lbs since last November, have had 8 personal counseling sessions (and have 8 more coming), am getting my depression under control and beginning to understand a lot of things that affected my behavior (most from reading "Feeling Good" by David Burns.) I feel improved and on the right track. One more day forward.

[dgiirl]

Plato, it sounds like you are doing an awesome job. The nice thing is, all the changes you are doing is going to make your life better, irregardless of the outcome of your marriage. The things you are doing now will make you a better partner in the future, with her or with someone else. It also looks like your wife is watching, even if she doesnt acknowledge the changes. So keep it up!

[Becoming]

I second dgiirl!

 

What the emotional needs inventory did for our marriage was give me the tools I needed to start meeting my husband's. If you shared those needs inventories, you should know something of what fills up her love bank. Do those things. I agree that giving her space is a good thing, but keeping the door open and being honest with her is important, too.

 

I like the poem idea for her birthday. Just keep doing the things you used to do when you were dating and wooing her. She probably just missed that so much she was desperate to experience that again. I suspect her preference is to feel that way again with you, but that if you won't do that, she felt like she had to go elsewhere. I'm not saying she's having an affair; she's said not. I'm just saying she knows what she needs and is going to get that need met one way or another. Meet that need, and I think you'll eventually have your wife back. But do it honestly.

 

Yeah, for yesterday!

 

Here's rooting for you . . .

[Plato1969]

Thanks dgiirl and Becoming for the words of encouragement.

 

Talking with my counselor last night, she said the same thing. I need to show my emotions, tell her my feelings. I thought I was doing that, but I can do much much better. Still learning.

 

Becoming,

 

I read some of your story, back in March. Whatever happened with your decision to seperate? How did it work out? There seem to be similarities with our situations, so I appreciate your input and guidance. Thank you.

[Plato1969]

Well, 2nd joint counseling session is over. Not much to say about it. the counselor saw us separately this time. Wife and I did not discuess what we talked about. I offered to give the kids a ride to her place afterwards, and she decline. Said we could just swap at the house. I kind of jokingly said "you don't want me to know where you live?" She kinda dodged around it, but basically said no, that we needed to keep that space. I told her she made me feel like some kind of stalker (and I've never done anything like taht to her.)

 

Anyway, yesterday was her birthday, and I got a voicemail from her in the afternoon saying how gorgeous the roses were, and how wondeful the poem was. She was impressed that I wrote it myself (which she verified today.) Basically a very nice "thanks". She said that she would call me last night, to talk to me, or say good night to the kids. Well, she didn't call. Was apparently out dancing all night with a bunch of other married couples. I didn't ask any other details.

 

So she comes over to pick up the kids around 10:30, and it's almost like I did nothing for her birthday. I thought she might have something more to say aobut what I wrote, about what it meant, but nothing. She said she doesn't know what to say. She said she's been so busy with work and the move, that she hasn't had time to think about things. She said she still needs to work on herself.

 

So, I know I'm doing some whining, a little pleading, and probably saying all the wrong things, cause she just is not responding. Talked wiht my mother about it, and she was pissed and said I needed to knock that stuff off, and get on with my life. Start going out with friends (women too) and just do what I want to do. Yeah, that's pretty much the concensus here. She's either made her decision to leave for good, or not. She's not telling me, so I'm going to do my best and move on. NC again, for real this time. Bought new locks for the house doors...reasoning is that I wanted new locks anyway, and it isn't quite fair that she can come and go as she pleases, and I don't even know where she lives. Only has a few things here, and she can get them when I'm here. Don't plan on seeing her until next Thursday, and I'm going to be unavailable for any "last minute" activities. Don't expect any, so it shouldn't be hard. All calls to voicemail, other than goodnights to the kids when they are here. Conversations short and sweet.

 

So now I just need to find people to do stuff with. Most of my friends are married, so not always available for single guy stuff. Looking at some dating sites for friendship-type relationships. Just someone to go to dinner, or see a movie with. I still intend to honor my marriage vowes, and if there comes a time when I want to take the next step, i will next her know and give her the option of resuming our relationship, or calling it quits. The way I see it, she is not fulfilling ANY of my emotional needs, and she doesn't respond, or even want me to fullfill hers. I cried for about 40 minutes today, thinking about this decison. I feel like I'm giving up, but like my mother said, I'm just being a doormat. Not being true to myself. 15 year ago, if a women didn't want me, I would say "See ya!" Obviously a marriage w/children is much more complicated, and losing her and losing the family as a whole really saddens me to no end.

 

I just wanted to know if I'm doing the right thing. Any flaws in my plan? I guess either way it works out, I'll end up getting what I want eventually. It's a horrible shame that my kids have to go through this.

 

Anyone ever read "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce"?

 

PS. Becoming, I just read one of your latest posts that things were going well in your marriage now. Gives me hope. Congratulations.

[Chinook]

I just read this from end-to-end. I don't know what to say. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I just hope things work out for you (sigh).

[Becoming]

Ah, Plato, I'm sorry. I think she's just being totally selfish now. I think you're going to have to tell her where you stand, put your boundaries down and enforce them. She either needs to be your W or your exW, and she needs to choose by {specify} date as indicated by {specific behaviors you want to continue the marriage under}.

 

Good for you for getting new locks. Her behavior is completely unacceptable for marriage in my book. Yes, you may want her back, but this ain't gonna cut it for you, is it? And it sounds like you need to know when this is going to end for your sake. So do what you need to do to take care of yourself, do what you want to do with regard to her.

 

I put down hard and fast boundaries and enforced them even as I continued to gently woo H with my steadfast devotion and honesty. It's a tricky line to dance. And I think you're doing well.

 

How long has this been going on now?