Ex in contact - I am suspicious

[beangirl46]

Yep I saw this one coming' date=' I guess some didn't. I know how women are. We can act so loving and caring and understanding but really what we are trying to do is draw you back in. Then when it backfires, we show our true colors. Hey, I'm guilty!! I've done it before as well, thats how come I felt it was best you not respond, but I understand you did what you thought was bet. At least now you see her true colors![/quote']

 

Hmm. . . I think you're selling women short here. Come on, now. Don't say bad stuff about your own kind! You're making women sound like these manipulative beings, but I don't believe we are. At heart, we are loving, caring, and understanding, but we get upset sometimes like any human being would.

 

I think it's better to focus on the reasons why women get upset, and help men understand those reasons, rather than to pain women as these demonic creatures that you can't trust and have to beware of.

[Tim'sAngel]

Hmm. . . I think you're selling women short here. Come on, now. Don't say bad stuff about your own kind! You're making women sound like these manipulative beings, but I don't believe we are. At heart, we are loving, caring, and understanding, but we get upset sometimes like any human being would.

 

I think it's better to focus on the reasons why women get upset, and help men understand those reasons, rather than to pain women as these demonic creatures that you can't trust and have to beware of.

 

If there is a lack of anyting on LS, it is of honesty. I'm not saying women are demonic, manipulative creatures, I'm saying we have the potential to be, as do men, as does everyone!

 

I predicted what would happen, and I was right. I know that women can play on emotions to try and get our men back. Is that a bad thing? No not really, but he didn't want to fight or get back with his ex, and look what happened when he tried to tell her he didnt want anymore contact whereas if he would have just not contacted her at all, she would have eventually gotten the hint and moved on. If he would have called her up and been like "Hey (xxx), I just wanted you to know that I don't think it would be wise for us to get together because I am still hurt over the ending of our relationship and I just wanted to clear that up with you." She would have either started crying and making him feel bad, then would have asked if she could just see him one last time, something to draw him back in because she wanted him again. This isn't what he wanted obviously.

 

I think it was pretty dumb on her part to use the "hey lets hang out" line. She knows he was hurt from the relationship and come one, she allowed another man to live in her home with her without discussing it over with her SO, the OP. Dont underestimate her, do you really think she was so ignorant to not think that would hurt him and eventually back fire on her? Come on!! She can't be that stupid or naive!! She also sounds a bit selfish.

[beangirl46]

At that rate' date=' this vicious cycle will go on and on and on...[/quote']

 

I don't think it necessarily will. I think it's possible to end things in a mature, sensitive manner where both parties are okay, come to an understanding, and move on with their lives in a healthy manner.

 

Nobody, after all, wants to be caught in a vicious cycle their whole life, or for any long period of time. I think, actually I'm pretty darn sure, that she wants to get out of this vicious cycle too.

[beangirl46]

I predicted what would happen, and I was right. I know that women can play on emotions to try and get our men back. Is that a bad thing? No not really, but he didn't want to fight or get back with his ex, and look what happened when he tried to tell her he didnt want anymore contact whereas if he would have just not contacted her at all, she would have eventually gotten the hint and moved on. If he would have called her up and been like "Hey (xxx), I just wanted you to know that I don't think it would be wise for us to get together because I am still hurt over the ending of our relationship and I just wanted to clear that up with you." She would have either started crying and making him feel bad, then would have asked if she could just see him one last time, something to draw him back in because she wanted him again. This isn't what he wanted obviously.

 

I think it was pretty dumb on her part to use the "hey lets hang out" line. She knows he was hurt from the relationship and come one, she allowed another man to live in her home with her without discussing it over with her SO, the OP. Dont underestimate her, do you really think she was so ignorant to not think that would hurt him and eventually back fire on her? Come on!! She can't be that stupid or naive!! She also sounds a bit selfish.

 

 

I still think you're making her out to be this bad, evil person. Is what she did bad? Yes, it was less than ideal. But, she dated JohnnyTable, she wants his attention, and she sees the value in hanging out with him. So she can't be all that bad of a person!

 

Not responding to her is like treating her like scum of the earth, the dirt beneath one's feet. It's also just going to put her through torture and pain. JohnnyTable has a way of stopping that from happening, and I want him to stop it from happening. However, I also don't want him to get sucked back into it.

 

I want the best for both parties here, and I think that's possible to achieve, if he writes her that response I wrote out in a previous post. Basically, if he creates a kind, sensitive ending, that values what they had together, but at the same time makes clear that they must move on, she will be okay.

 

And it seems from what he's saying that he wants her to be okay. As women, who have an idea of what women need to hear, why don't we help him craft a response here?

 

That's where I'm coming from.

[Tim'sAngel]

I don't think it necessarily will. I think it's possible to end things in a mature, sensitive manner where both parties are okay, come to an understanding, and move on with their lives in a healthy manner.

 

I think that is possible as well, but this women doesn't sound very mature.

 

Nobody, after all, wants to be caught in a vicious cycle their whole life, or for any long period of time. I think, actually I'm pretty darn sure, that she wants to get out of this vicious cycle too.

 

I didn't get that impression at all. Would you mind sharing what gave you the impression?

[alphamale]

If there is a lack of anyting on LS' date=' it is of honesty. I'm not saying women are demonic, manipulative creatures, I'm saying we have the potential to be, as do men, as does everyone! [/quote']

women tend to be much better at interpersonal relationships therefore it is usually easier for them to be demonic & manipulative in this area of life.

[beangirl46]

I think that is possible as well, but this women doesn't sound very mature.

 

 

 

I didn't get that impression at all. Would you mind sharing what gave you the impression?

 

 

I think it's just common sense. Nobody wants to be caught in a cycle of pain. She doesn't exactly sound happy here.

[Tim'sAngel]

Well, you are allowed to have your own opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it just because I think as long as there is contact between them it will go on and on. I've been in that cycle, I know how it works. Good intentions don't always get you where you want to be. Ultimately, the OP will have to make his own decision and if he decides to contact her again, then I hope the best for them both and hope she will understand his POV and they can end it peacefully.

 

And btw, I'm not just pulling this out of my a**, I've been in both of their shoes before, and NC was the best route both times. And I learned that the hard way.

[beangirl46]

Well, you are allowed to have your own opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it just because I think as long as there is contact between them it will go on and on. I've been in that cycle, I know how it works. Good intentions don't always get you where you want to be. Ultimately, the OP will have to make his own decision and if he decides to contact her again, then I hope the best for them both and hope she will understand his POV and they can end it peacefully.

 

And btw, I'm not just pulling this out of my a**, I've been in both of their shoes before, and NC was the best route both times. And I learned that the hard way.

 

 

I've been in HER shoes, and what made the cycle go on and on was his lack of a reply. Until he began replying, it wouldn't end. He could have ended things much sooner by being mature from the get-go.

 

Actually, come to think of it, I've been in HIS shoes too, when someone wouldn't stop buggin' me. I tried running away (literally), but in that case also, it didn't stop until I was brave and honest enough to face the guy and create a mature ending.

 

So in my case, NC was the best route too, but ONLY AFTER a final, mature, contact that took care of both parties.

 

Good luck.

[daphne]

Beangirl,

 

I get where you're coming from but the OP did try the mature route and the ex lashed out when she didn't get what she wanted. There's no making good out of that. I personally wouldn't have responded, given teh circumstances.

 

Not all women are manipulative bitches, but it sounds like this one was. I think that you're biased by your own experiences and you can't see the reality of what kind of person the OP's ex is. She's not a sweetheart.

[Tim'sAngel]

I think it's just common sense. Nobody wants to be caught in a cycle of pain. She doesn't exactly sound happy here.

 

Please don't take offense to this, but this statement sounds very naive. On the contrary, some (and note that I did say "some", not all) women strive off of drama. As long as "she" (being the hypothetical drama crazed women) can at least keep contact between her and her hypothetical ex going on, it does't matter if it is positive or negitive, she will be content. I've seen it over and over.

 

I really don't think this women is mature or she wouldn't have sent the vehement email. A mature women would have either replied with a short email of confirmation, or wouldn't have replied at all. JMO

[beangirl46]

Beangirl,

 

I get where you're coming from but the OP did try the mature route and the ex lashed out when she didn't get what she wanted. There's no making good out of that. I personally wouldn't have responded, given teh circumstances.

 

Not all women are manipulative bitches, but it sounds like this one was. I think that you're biased by your own experiences and you can't see the reality of what kind of person the OP's ex is. She's not a sweetheart.

 

 

I may be biased by my own experiences, but everyone on this site, including you, also is.

 

So, the girl lashed out. Is she suddenly some kind of demon? Nobody can be the sweetheart all the time. She's upset, it's a hard situation. I don't think the mature route has been tried yet. I think the mature route will only come from that email I suggested he send several posts ago.

 

I also re-read all of Johnny Tables posts after reading your message to see if I am biased and not paying attention to the facts of his specific situation. I still think I am though. I think I got a handle on the facts, and I still believe the same thing!

 

I, for one, have never met a woman in my life who is a manipulative bitch. Maybe I'm just lucky. Or maybe I just don't blame women for getting hurt sometimes and lashing out because they don't know how to deal with the pain.

[beangirl46]

Please don't take offense to this, but this statement sounds very naive. On the contrary, some (and note that I did say "some", not all) women strive off of drama. As long as "she" (being the hypothetical drama crazed women) can at least keep contact between her and her hypothetical ex going on, it does't matter if it is positive or negitive, she will be content. I've seen it over and over.

 

I really don't think this women is mature or she wouldn't have sent the vehement email. A mature women would have either replied with a short email of confirmation, or wouldn't have replied at all. JMO

 

Not offended.

 

Perhaps there is such a thing as a drama-crazed woman. Perhaps not. I don't know.

 

But I don't think, based on the facts we know, that we can write this one off as a drama-crazed type.

 

I, personally, have sent a vehement email before. I've gotten worked up and I've lashed out. But, I didn't do it for the drama. I did it because I was hurt and didn't know how to deal with the situation. The guy accused me of "just being out to get him" or just wanting to take revenge. Suddenly, I went from being "sweetheart" to being a demon. (Eventually, I was able to go back to sweetheart. Unfortunately, he couldn't stop demonizing me, or I couldn't stop being a demon-- whatever-- so now we're off for good.)

 

Little did the guy know that I loved him, or at least needed a meaningful ending.

 

Actually, something just occurred to me as I was writing this-- Maybe I actually am a demon. And I'm tellin' you what us demons need in order to be satisfied.

[Tim'sAngel]

So, the girl lashed out. Is she suddenly some kind of demon? Nobody can be the sweetheart all the time. She's upset, it's a hard situation. I don't think the mature route has been tried yet. I think the mature route will only come from that email I suggested he send several posts ago.

 

Noone used the word "demon" but you. Actions speak louder than words right? In this case, we see both. Her action was that she lashed out, and her words showed her immaturity.

 

I think JT said it best...

 

I think that she is trying to guilt' date=' provoke, and manipulate me into being in her life instead of bringing me in through care, compassion, and respect. She is effectively blaming me for her pain.[/quote']

 

Might I add that it was because of her actions they broke up in the first place. Why should she be the one we are so compasionate to? The OP is clearly having a hard time with this I don't think this kind of contact is what either of them, especially him needs at this time.

 

It was not good in that I wasn't being treated with much respect the last three months of our relationship. Howeverit took me about a month of NC to realize this as I was blind at the time.

 

Then she started to push me out of her life. It was a gradual cutoff taking months. In the meantime her ex moved in with her because he "has no place to stay and is helping with the kids." Of course I got little communication or comfort during this process. It was like she broke up with me months before actually doing so

[Tim'sAngel]

I, personally, have sent a vehement email before. I've gotten worked up and I've lashed out. But, I didn't do it for the drama. I did it because I was hurt and didn't know how to deal with the situation. The guy accused me of "just being out to get him" or just wanting to take revenge. Suddenly, I went from being "sweetheart" to being a demon. (Eventually, I was able to go back to sweetheart. Unfortunately, he couldn't stop demonizing me, or I couldn't stop being a demon-- whatever-- so now we're off for good.)

 

Little did the guy know that I loved him, or at least needed a meaningful ending.

 

Ah, so I'm starting to see why you are so biased in your opinion. Look, I'm not heartless. I have sent the emails as well, I just recognize it as me being desperate and doing anything in my power to get some kind of contact be it negitive or positive. I just wanted to spark emotion any way I could. I finally realized I was doing nothing but hurting myself. This is where I think my maturity kicked in. There comes a time when you just gotta sit yourself down and say "Look self, nothing is going to change. Get over it and move on."

 

Actually, something just occurred to me as I was writing this-- Maybe I actually am a demon. And I'm tellin' you what us demons need in order to be satisfied.

 

I don't think you are a demon. Where did that word come from anyways? I think you were a women who was hurt and needed closure but didnt know how to get it. In this instance, I am trying to help the OP, not the OP's ex. If it were her posting, I would give her the exact same advice, just leave it alone!

[beangirl46]

Noone used the word "demon" but you. QUOTE]

 

Demon, drama-crazed woman, manipulative bitch-- they're all shorthand for the same thing.

[beangirl46]

>>>>Ah, so I'm starting to see why you are so biased in your opinion.

 

Hmm, I think I'm no more biased than you here. It seems your own experiences are guiding your opinions here too. I think it's incorrect for me to be painted as the "biased" one, when the fact is that we're both biased in our own ways.

 

>>>I don't think you are a demon. Where did that word come from anyways?

 

It comes from the verb "to demonize." "To demonize" a woman is to exaggerate her as an evil, eve-like figure who must be distrusted.

 

>>>In this instance, I am trying to help the OP, not the OP's ex. If it were her posting, I would give her the exact same advice, just leave it alone!

 

If it were her posting, I would tell her, "get the truth you need." This might not necessarily mean contacting the ex, but it might.

 

>>>>Why should she be the one we are so compasionate to? The OP is clearly having a hard time with this I don't think this kind of contact is what either of them, especially him needs at this time. . . In this instance, I am trying to help the OP, not the OP's ex.

 

Look, if the objective is to give the OP sympathy and warm arms at any expense, then we can go about talking crap about the ex for posts and posts to make him feel better. But if the goal here is to get at the truth of the situation, to help him come to a true understanding of his situation, then I think a more balanced perspective that takes into account both sides is needed.

 

>>>>Why should she be the one we are so compasionate to?

 

My compassion does not take sides. I feel compassionate towards everyone in this situation.

[johnnytable]

I don't think it necessarily will. I think it's possible to end things in a mature, sensitive manner where both parties are okay, come to an understanding, and move on with their lives in a healthy manner.

 

You are right, and this happened 6 weeks ago. We ended things in a mature manner. We said our goodbyes. I told her that I needed to move on and she agreed. I asked her to confirm her decision and she did. All of this happened already. Why must it happen again? Because she is upset?

 

Nobody, after all, wants to be caught in a vicious cycle their whole life, or for any long period of time. I think, actually I'm pretty darn sure, that she wants to get out of this vicious cycle too.

 

I should shed some light on this. She has kept her ex-husband in her life for 14 years. Yes they have children together, but she keeps letting him come back around. He cheater on her with her best friend in her bed. He never paid child support. He didn't respect her. He didn't take care of his children. He was not good.

 

I don't see her making any efforts to get out of that cycle.

[johnnytable]

I've been in HER shoes, and what made the cycle go on and on was his lack of a reply. Until he began replying, it wouldn't end. He could have ended things much sooner by being mature from the get-go.

 

We already ended things 6 weeks ago in a mature way. She wanted to hang out and I respectfully told her that I wasn't interested. Then she attacked me. She is hurt because I am not there anymore. Do you honestly think that words from me can make her hurt go away? I know that words from her won't make my hurt go away.

[johnnytable]

Please don't take offense to this, but this statement sounds very naive. On the contrary, some (and note that I did say "some", not all) women strive off of drama. As long as "she" (being the hypothetical drama crazed women) can at least keep contact between her and her hypothetical ex going on, it does't matter if it is positive or negitive, she will be content. I've seen it over and over.

 

I really don't think this women is mature or she wouldn't have sent the vehement email. A mature women would have either replied with a short email of confirmation, or wouldn't have replied at all. JMO

 

I agree with this. Her response was not mature. Even if she was pissed as hell, she didn't need to respond in that way.

[Spurned]

JohnnyTable,

 

You are doing the right thing by freeing yourself from this drama. I wouldn't have any contact with her in any way. She did some horrible things to you; you said your "mature" goodbyes weeks ago. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason for you to respond to her, for you to let her think that you are emotionally available to her, or for you to make her feel better about the situation you guys are in. She didn't care about your feelings during the breakup. Does she expect you to continue to care for hers after you have "maturely" ended things? Is that a "mature" point of view?

 

As someone very wise once told me, listen not to what she says but to what she does. She may say she "cares" about you, but look at what she has done.

 

You've dodged a potential disaster. Time to move on.

 

Good luck buddy.

[Tim'sAngel]

So are you going to respond to her or leave it at that? I know what it is like to go through the "just wanting to straighten things out" and then its back and forth back and forth. Its just more chances to hear and say hurtful things, why can't people just leave things alone? None of this would have started if she just wouldn't have called to "hang out". She should have known better IMO.

 

I really hope you are holding up well and get past this. I'm sure there are plenty of mature women out there who will be willing to talk things over with you and respect you!

[johnnytable]

Honestly I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out what to do. I wish that I would have never responded at all, but now I have all of this stuff going on in my head. I am feeling the pain that she is going through. I am feeling her telling me f-you and accusing me of being cold and cutting. I feel like I am going back to the beginning of our breakup. I feel that I am treating her poorly.

 

I actually wrote up an email but have not sent it. Don't know how it would be taken or if it would help:

 

Dear (x),

 

Over the last few months I have been mourning the loss of four people who were very important in my life and a future that I once envisioned. As you know, this is a difficult process. However I am making steps forward and have been doing well. My summer may not be a picture book perfect one, but it has been an important one for me.

 

As much as I would like to hang out with you, I know that this is simply impossible due to my need to move forward. I know that this isn’t easy for you just as it isn’t easy for me.

 

I have respected your decision to end our relationship, and I would appreciate it if you would respect my decision to move on.

 

(JT)

[Tim'sAngel]

I like the last part. I don't mean to sound cold and I'm sure this will get a comment from someone... but if you put too much emotion into it, it will be taken the wrong way IMO. I would, and this is just my opinion, make it short and sweet and straight to the point.

 

Let me just tell you as a women how I would take it...

 

"Oh he said he wants to hang out with me, he said I was important!! He still likes me!!"

 

If it were me, Id just send a cut and dry email telling her you don't think it is wise for the two of you to hang out because you feel you need to move on. That is all you owe her at this point. If she was the one who ended the relationship, then you aren't the one who treated her poorly. In fact, just from your posts, it sounds quite the opposite. JMHO

[johnnytable]

I like the last part. I don't mean to sound cold and I'm sure this will get a comment from someone... but if you put too much emotion into it, it will be taken the wrong way IMO. I would, and this is just my opinion, make it short and sweet and straight to the point.

 

Let me just tell you as a women how I would take it...

 

"Oh he said he wants to hang out with me, he said I was important!! He still likes me!!"

 

If it were me, Id just send a cut and dry email telling her you don't think it is wise for the two of you to hang out because you feel you need to move on. That is all you owe her at this point. If she was the one who ended the relationship, then you aren't the one who treated her poorly. In fact, just from your posts, it sounds quite the opposite. JMHO

 

This probably would have been good to say in the first place. Honestly I don't think it would have helped much though, given her response. It should be fairly obvious as to why I can't hang out with her. Even in her phone message, she indicated that she understood if I didn't want her to call or email me. It's no secret.

 

So now she is upset asking me to explain to her my response. And all I can add is "I need to move on"? Hmmm not satisfying in her eyes! Rather than her wanting my explanation, I think that she wants attention or to get what she wants. If she really wants me in her life, then she might want to stop with the f-you comments and talk to me like an adult.

 

And as we know, her perception of my words is not what most people would think. I ran my mail by a few women who said "to the point and sympathetic." That is far from "cold cutting"