How Do Wives Do It?

[bullhunter]

Sorry - but no they weren't. The lies came later.

 

I'm done here. It's unfortunate that with all of the questioning about why and how - the answer's are never acceptable. I've come to the conclusion that all that is desired is striking out, and I've had enough of that.

 

Good-bye

[newbby]

Of course I lied to her

 

this is rather worrying, wouldnt you say?

[newbby]

Sorry - but no they weren't. The lies came later.

 

I'm done here. It's unfortunate that with all of the questioning about why and how - the answer's are never acceptable. I've come to the conclusion that all that is desired is striking out, and I've had enough of that.

 

Good-bye

 

why would you feel the need to lie to her? i mean what a strange way to deal with the situation. so she came on to you, and you feel you were in a vulnerable position, but then you must have been enjoying it, or you would not have felt the need to lie.

if somebody who i was not in the least interested in was coming on to me, then i would make sure i made it VERY clear that i was NOT interested, whether i was attached or not. perhaps she was lonely and read abit too much into the situation, or something, perhaps she was even psycho, but whatever the situation, its a very strange way to handle yourself.

besides which if you bother to read the ow stories on here, you will see that the situations are very different. my ex mm was typical in that he heavily pursued me, i did not trick him into anything. i did not pretend to be his friend, i wasnt his friend in fact. what do you want me and others like me to do, admit to something that we are not guilty of?

how would this admission make you feel better?

[BUTAFLY]

Sorry - but no they weren't. The lies came later.

 

I'm done here. It's unfortunate that with all of the questioning about why and how - the answer's are never acceptable. I've come to the conclusion that all that is desired is striking out, and I've had enough of that.

 

Good-bye

 

sorry bullhunter I really wasn't saying that to knock you...but i couldn't resist myself . umm umm (as I get my composure) Please come back, continue your conversation. I don't want to be the party pooper here. I appologize. But please, do tell how did she manipulating, if you already stated this in a previous post just direct me to the post(This is a long thread).

[newbby]

as for owning pain. yes, at the end of the day that is what we ow have to do, because mm will never apologise for lying to us. we also have to accept that we did not handle the situation in the best way by allowing him to eat cake, and therefore our own pain is partially self inflicted. this is true. but i think you will find that when a decision has been made based on some VERY big lies, there will be a certain amount of anger toward the mm, even if only initially. you will find if you really listen, some varying stages of progress around this forum. intially its denial, then anger, and toward the end of recovery acceptance of ones own poor choices. but what is wrong with that? these are natural and healthy stages, why should they anger you so?

[UnknowingOW]

Honestly, it is hard to believe. My observation is that much of the energy that has been expressed on this forum have been EXTREMELY negative towards the wife. If the wife has decided to kick her husband out and go on without him, THEN she is accepted. But if she decides to attempt to work out their problems, she is called stupid and ignorant and quite often most harshly.

 

That type of reaction leads me to believe that many (probably not most, but many) OW, far from being angry with the MM, is really angry with the wife. If it just wasn't for her. . . It seems that much of the questioning of "how can the wife do it?" has an undercurrent of "get rid of him because then he'll come back to me" about them.

 

I hold no negative feelings for the W. She is being lied too...we both are. Do you think he's going to tell her?

 

MM: "Oh, BTW, I've been telling a woman I am in-love with her...she is 15-years younger then you and have had the most incredible sex I've ever had my life...but I love you too W and will not leave you."

 

MM: "Wife, I'm not going to tell the OW that I am trying to work our M so I don't lose her either."

 

MM: "OW, I promise to let you know if I go back...I respect you not wanting to be involved with a MM" (need to preface this by saying this has been a so-called friend for 5-years, so after the A happened and I found out the truth about his M (and not from him...I ran a background check)..I was already hooked, and never saw him again after I found out..maintined distance and only chats and calls and me telling mm to go back to his M. and him telling me "I don't want to lose you...I love you.") NC is the way to be!!!

 

I have no anger for her. However, that being said, I am ANGERED with the MM. Angered with his lies. Do I want him back? HELL NO. I do feel sorry for her, I only wonder if she know the extent of his actions. (PS I didn't know he was married until later...haven't been with him since I found out the truth)

[BUTAFLY]

I want to address casoria's original question.

My theory is a W HAS to believe in order to remain sane. A W could not spend the rest of their life w/ a man she believes does not respect or love her as much as she loves him. This would be detrimental to the wifes pyshe, self-esteem and self-worth.

So what does the wife do? She makes escuses for his behavior such as:

1. "I should have shown him more attention"

2. "We were having problems when he strayed"

3. "Everyone makes mistakes"

4. "He was just using her"

5. "She's jealous of our love"

6. "She through herself at him"

7. "If she's offering of course he's gonna take- he's a man."

8. "He loves me- thats why I'm the wife"

This is defensive talk that she has to say over and over until she buys it herself. This rebuilds her selfworth and reclaims her statues as number one in his life to the point where she can now justify staying with her H.

She needs to justify her love for him, their life they built, the home they made. If she doesn't believe the world she spent x many years creating would crumble. That's why the wives do it.

 

Casoria, I was the ow also and I understand you completely (you remind me of me) but I want you to apprieciate that the OW and W shared an expeirence but view it from two opposite spectrums.

[silktricks]

why would you feel the need to lie to her? i mean what a strange way to deal with the situation. so she came on to you, and you feel you were in a vulnerable position, but then you must have been enjoying it, or you would not have felt the need to lie.

if somebody who i was not in the least interested in was coming on to me, then i would make sure i made it VERY clear that i was NOT interested, whether i was attached or not. perhaps she was lonely and read abit too much into the situation, or something, perhaps she was even psycho, but whatever the situation, its a very strange way to handle yourself.

besides which if you bother to read the ow stories on here, you will see that the situations are very different. my ex mm was typical in that he heavily pursued me, i did not trick him into anything. i did not pretend to be his friend, i wasnt his friend in fact. what do you want me and others like me to do, admit to something that we are not guilty of?

how would this admission make you feel better?

 

Newbby, it's possible that he wants (or wanted) the same thing that the ow who come here feeling deceived wants - some understanding. He has said any number of times how HE felt deceived and manipulated. Why is that so difficult to understand? And why is it so impossible to believe that he was deceived and manipulated? I've known a LOT of people who will absolutely give tit for tat. Lie to me? Then you won't BELIEVE how much I'll lie to you.

 

I don't know, maybe that's not it at all.

[silktricks]

I want to address casoria's original question.

My theory is a W HAS to believe in order to remain sane. A W could not spend the rest of their life w/ a man she believes does not respect or love her as much as she loves him. This would be detrimental to the wifes pyshe, self-esteem and self-worth.

So what does the wife do? She makes escuses for his behavior such as:

1. "I should have shown him more attention"

2. "We were having problems when he strayed"

3. "Everyone makes mistakes"

4. "He was just using her"

5. "She's jealous of our love"

6. "She through herself at him"

7. "If she's offering of course he's gonna take- he's a man."

8. "He loves me- thats why I'm the wife"

This is defensive talk that she has to say over and over until she buys it herself. This rebuilds her selfworth and reclaims her statues as number one in his life to the point where she can now justify staying with her H.

She needs to justify her love for him, their life they built, the home they made. If she doesn't believe the world she spent x many years creating would crumble. That's why the wives do it.

 

Casoria, I was the ow also and I understand you completely (you remind me of me) but I want you to apprieciate that the OW and W shared an expeirence but view it from two opposite spectrums.

 

Well, no, WE didn't share an experience. You shared an experience with my husband. I just got caught in the pain of it.

 

Since you haven't been the wife, don't you feel just a tad presumptuous saying why we stay? The above seems to be just what you tell yourself to make YOU feel better. After all if you say the wives stay:

 

1. Because their husbands have shown unbelievable regret

2. Because the women are strong women, able to shoulder the pain and move on

3. Because they are forgiving women

4. Because the love they and their husbands share has actually been tempered in this fire and forged a greater depth and strength

5. Because they are adult enough women to know that problems truly ARE caused by two people, and they are willing to work on their side of the problems that weakened their relationships to the point their husbands allowed themselves to stray.

 

then the wives don't end up looking like the weak pathetic person you seem to want to see us as.

[Buttaflyy]

I want to address casoria's original question.

My theory is a W HAS to believe in order to remain sane. A W could not spend the rest of their life w/ a man she believes does not respect or love her as much as she loves him. This would be detrimental to the wifes pyshe, self-esteem and self-worth.

So what does the wife do? She makes escuses for his behavior such as:

1. "I should have shown him more attention"

2. "We were having problems when he strayed"

3. "Everyone makes mistakes"

4. "He was just using her"

5. "She's jealous of our love"

6. "She through herself at him"

7. "If she's offering of course he's gonna take- he's a man."

8. "He loves me- thats why I'm the wife"

This is defensive talk that she has to say over and over until she buys it herself. This rebuilds her selfworth and reclaims her statues as number one in his life to the point where she can now justify staying with her H.

She needs to justify her love for him, their life they built, the home they made. If she doesn't believe the world she spent x many years creating would crumble. That's why the wives do it.

 

Casoria, I was the ow also and I understand you completely (you remind me of me) but I want you to apprieciate that the OW and W shared an expeirence but view it from two opposite spectrums.

 

 

Excellent post Silk Tricks! Butafly, this is really sad. It sounds like you would like to believe these "excuses" yourself, to justify why a MM would leave you and return home. Can't you guys see, that this is all so very simple...if the relationship was that special between you and he, if when the truth was revealed about your relationship with him, and he chose you, he would have left his wife and been with you. Would you not have been willing to keep him? After all, he was out for self anyways right? Why wouldn't he be with the the OW if she's the woman of his dreams who made him happy? This does happen sometimes.

 

Can you honestly believe your own reasoning for the W staying? For one, people divorce all the time, a man leaving you doesn't make you insane. It may be hard for you to believe, but sometimes a couple can work through an infidelity and find happiness again. Sometimes, a human can make a mistake, repent, and move on from it. In the end it is the choice of the couple and no one else. Some people take marraige that seriously.

 

The OW can be angry with the MM for the lies and betrayal that he's put her through as well, but I can't understand feelings of betrayal if the W takes him back. You were in this three way relationship knowingly. She wants a one way relationship with her H. Cutting you out. Is this what upsets you so?

[norajane]

if when the truth was revealed about your relationship with him, and he chose you, he would have left his wife and been with you. Would you not have been willing to keep him?

 

I think this is the crux of the answer to Casoria's question, and it's been said by several posters in this thread:

 

If the OW would have him despite all the pain she's gone through during the A, then why wouldn't the W despite all the pain she'll go through after the A? There are pros and cons for all, and the cards don't always fall the same way, but, in the end, we are talking about humans and humans have an infinite capacity to love and forgive.

[Buttaflyy]

I think this is the crux of the answer to Casoria's question, and it's been said by several posters in this thread:

 

If the OW would have him despite all the pain she's gone through during the A, then why wouldn't the W despite all the pain she'll go through after the A? There are pros and cons for all, and the cards don't always fall the same way, but, in the end, we are talking about humans and humans have an infinite capacity to love and forgive.

 

Yes. This is why I can't believe this question is being posed to the W in the first place. All of this has been said many times and unless the OW would get to the crux of it, as you stated, she'll never understand the true answer to this question.

 

The audacity...

[grateful]

Yes. This is why I can't believe this question is being posed to the W in the first place. All of this has been said many times and unless the OW would get to the crux of it, as you stated, she'll never understand the true answer to this question.

 

The audacity...

 

 

What's so odd is that the attitudes towards the wife (i.e. she is delusional or she only cares about status) are so far from the level of compassion and nuance that the OW ask for on these boards.

 

OW plead that:

 

"things happen"

"I never planned this"

"it's not that black and white"

"love and destiny sometimes work outside of conventional bounds"

"our love was on a different level which mattered more than moral dictums like the golden rule (do unto others...)."

 

But become awfully black/white and unnuanced when trying to imagine why the wife would stay.

[silktricks]

Yes. This is why I can't believe this question is being posed to the W in the first place. All of this has been said many times and unless the OW would get to the crux of it, as you stated, she'll never understand the true answer to this question.

 

The audacity...

I really don't think it's audacity so much. And I also don't think they people who pose this question honestly want the answer from the wife. I believe that they pose this question on this forum because they want to hear other ow tell them the same things that they are already trying to convince themselves of.

 

"The wife is weak and pathetic. The mm went back to her, but he didn't get the best deal. I'm the best deal. He went back to her for money, kids, stability, etc., but he really truly wants to be with me. He doesn't love her. He may not love me the way I want him to, but he doesn't love her that way either."

 

the corollary to that is:

 

He is a horrible person, a liar, a manipulator. He can't love anyone. He'll do this again and again.

 

The end result is that either the mm or the wife (or both) ends up being demonized.

 

Hopefully this is just a step in the road to recovery, and they will grow past it, but if they don't get real input from real wives who are real people, then I think the prospect is slimmer. It's obvious that most of the people who have relationships with married people are themselves in a great deal of pain. To face the fact that most of one's pain has been brought on by the choices we make is a very difficult step for many. For some maybe it's not even possible.

 

It is far easier in some respects to blame other people and strike out at the ones who had peripheral affect - the mm and the wife - then it is to look inside and go "wow, if I had done such and so, I wouldn't be feeling this pain". Pain causes growth, but only if the person experiencing the pain internalizes it as well, and examines it as a method for personal growth, rather than simply staying in the victim state. But then, I've never been a big believer in victimhood, and I'd rather take on some of the responsibility for a bad situation than feel a victim.

 

On the other hand, maybe it is simply audacity and I'm giving everyone more (or less) credit than they deserve.

[silktricks]

What's so odd is that the attitudes towards the wife (i.e. she is delusional or she only cares about status) are so far from the level of compassion and nuance that the OW ask for on these boards.

 

OW plead that:

 

"things happen"

"I never planned this"

"it's not that black and white"

"love and destiny sometimes work outside of conventional bounds"

"our love was on a different level which mattered more than moral dictums like the golden rule (do unto others...)."

 

But become awfully black/white and unnuanced when trying to imagine why the wife would stay.

 

 

What a perfect post. Thank-you!!

[newbby]

What's so odd is that the attitudes towards the wife (i.e. she is delusional or she only cares about status) are so far from the level of compassion and nuance that the OW ask for on these boards.

 

 

just remember that is not true of all ow.

i dont understand hypocrisy either, but i am trying to give a different perspective on how the ow may have meant it. i also understand wives anger at general ow, but, ANY type of judging or labelling or categorising, does not sit well with me, i just dont believe in it, and i do think that this happens alot more with OW in RL (aswell) than this BS (who take spouse back) labelling that goes on in the forums. i might also add, perhaps it only goes on in this particular forum, and PERHAPS it is a defense thing, as ow are certainly villified, both in RL and VL.

[silktricks]

And in all fairness -

 

When a married man leaves his wife to be with the OW, I would bet that the ex-wife goes through the exact same scenario as the ow are, namely:

 

He didn't get the best deal, I'm the best deal

He's a liar and manipulator

He's no good

She's no good

She seduced him, he never would have gone if she hadn't

He was swept up, when he come to his senses he'll be back

 

and on and on and on.

 

The same applies. Pain causes growth, but only if it's internalized and applied. Perpetually staying the victim only hurts the victim.

[silktricks]

both in RL and VL.

 

what are RL and VL?

[Buttaflyy]

And in all fairness -

 

When a married man leaves his wife to be with the OW, I would bet that the ex-wife goes through the exact same scenario as the ow are, namely:

 

He didn't get the best deal, I'm the best deal

He's a liar and manipulator

He's no good

She's no good

She seduced him, he never would have gone if she hadn't

He was swept up, when he come to his senses he'll be back

 

and on and on and on.

 

The same applies. Pain causes growth, but only if it's internalized and applied. Perpetually staying the victim only hurts the victim.

 

Good point!

[Buttaflyy]

what are RL and VL?

 

Real Life, Virtual Life?

[newbby]

Newbby, it's possible that he wants (or wanted) the same thing that the ow who come here feeling deceived wants - some understanding. He has said any number of times how HE felt deceived and manipulated. Why is that so difficult to understand? And why is it so impossible to believe that he was deceived and manipulated? I've known a LOT of people who will absolutely give tit for tat. Lie to me? Then you won't BELIEVE how much I'll lie to you.

 

I don't know, maybe that's not it at all.

 

yes silk tricks,

BUT, just because bh's ow may have been manipulative, it is NOT the case in the MAJORITY of these situations, and then he gets angry at the ow here for not admitting that they were like his ow. MOST are not, and those that were probably dont come to these forums looking for help. just like the manipulative mm dont come here for help.

so he comes in here slating all the ow in here for what, i do not know. it is not just this particular thread, it happens often with him. why does he need the ow here to confirm his experience, if he is so sure about it?

i am sure my mm manipulated me, (this is not the same as saying i am not responsible for allowing it), but i dont need a hundred mm to admit it. i know it already....

i have nothing against bh at all, but it is difficult to stop questioning somebody who is so intent on making you admit something which is not true.

[silktricks]

yes silk tricks,

BUT, just because bh's ow may have been manipulative, it is NOT the case in the MAJORITY of these situations, and then he gets angry at the ow here for not admitting that they were like his ow. MOST are not, and those that were probably dont come to these forums looking for help. just like the manipulative mm dont come here for help.

Maybe I should have posted this when he was actually around (unless he's lurking???)

 

but - what's the matter with just giving understanding? It sounded like you wanted him to come to some kind of realization about something, but when I read his posts, it sounded like he already had.

 

so he comes in here slating all the ow in here for what, i do not know. it is not just this particular thread, it happens often with him. why does he need the ow here to confirm his experience, if he is so sure about it?

I don't know, indeed, but where is he going to go? It's not as if he's got a big support group out there either, I wouldn't think.

 

i have nothing against bh at all, but it is difficult to stop questioning somebody who is so intent on making you admit something which is not true.

Do you think he's trying to make you admit something not true? I thought he was looking for somebody who actually did something (like trying to trick a mm) who felt bad about what they did.

 

What I actually read into him, to be honest, was that he was looking for reasons to not dislike women. He sounded like someone who had liked women and was afraid he was becoming a mysogynist (sp?) due to his experiences with this woman. BUt maybe I read something into it that wasn't really there. . . I know I have a tendency to do that at times.

[newbby]

well, i cant say it wasnt there, how do i know? but i can say its not something i saw. however, this is why i was asking questions, which there is nothing wrong with. if he would answer them without attacking, then he might get more understanding. however, i do agree with what you are saying to an extent, a supportive environment to give you space to work through your own problems is the best thing you can offer. i suppose i found that difficult to do, because i felt he was attacking me ("my kind").

[Ladyjane14]

....i suppose i found that difficult to do, because i felt he was attacking me ("my kind").

 

I wish you could let that go, Newbby. You needn't put a label on yourself. It's been a good long while since you were involved with a MM. I think it might be a healthy thing just to be 'Newbby... a gal who has a variety of different life experiences'.

[silktricks]

i suppose i found that difficult to do, because i felt he was attacking me ("my kind").

 

Newbby, you are one of a kind. You are a unique, wonderful human being who has had experiences.