How Do Wives Do It?

[Guest]

I think what you have written here is a bunch of bull! Do you actually think there is a difference between an EA & as you call is a full PA? Did you really tell your wife EVERYTHING? I think the only truth is that you didn't love the OW, and don't love your wife either. You are just trying to save yourself. You didn't have an affair because you were mad at your wife, you had an affair because it made you feel good. Selfish, no? The only way YOU will heal is if you admit it to yourself.

 

 

 

this I simply must respond to.

 

You see, I am a married man who had an affair. Granted it was an EA rather than a full-fledged all out PA, but an affair, nonetheless. You say you want the MM's true feelings. I can't tell about every MM, I can only tell about myself. I am very ashamed of what I did, but this is the truth.

 

To my OW: I never liked you. If I had liked you, I never would have been with you. I know that sounds disgusting, but unfortunately, it is the truth. I never intended to leave my wife. I was angry with her. Unbelievably angry. Anything I did with you was not driven by any kind of love or feelings for you. I had none, other than some degree of disgust. You were nothing, and you meant nothing to me. It wasn't until after I told my wife about it, and SHE pointed out to me that you were hurt by my actions as well that I even slightly considered what, if any, pain you might experience.

 

So that my WHOLE TRUTH. You said the wives couldn't take the WHOLE TRUTH, Casoria. My wife took the WHOLE TRUTH, because I told her the whole truth, every bit of it. Every bit of disgusting feelings, thoughts, actions. All of them. I hid nothing. We are together now because we love each other.

[RealityCheck]

Is that really a big surprise? If MM had respect for women, they wouldn't serve either the W or OW with table scraps. MM take a very self-centered view - it's all about what they want/need, and the women in their lives are secondary to that.

 

Exactly! I agree 100%!

[bullhunter]

One other thing, my view of women has changed drastically from before I had the affair. Formerly I felt that they were the "sugar and spice" of the nursery rhyme. Now I feel that I have a more balanced view of women. Some women are very good, kind, wonderful people. Others are SOB's. Just like men.

 

I had a problem. It was my problem - not yours. I acted badly. I hurt my wife, I hurt the OW and I hurt myself. I didn't care about the OW when I was having the affair, I just lied my a$$ off. I didn't think my wife would ever know, but realized in the end I needed to tell her, so that our relationship could either heal or end, depending on what she wanted. I wanted her to be OK, and would have gladly given up my life to make that happen.

 

I posted here because of the attitude of the OP that she knew the REAL truth, the WHOLE truth about the MM, and the wife was ignorant. That certainly wasn't the case for me. My wife in the end knew the REAL, WHOLE truth. The OW never knew me, and never received any truth from me. She heard only lies from me. I told her what I knew she wanted to hear, that's all.

 

Your point about respecting women, is well taken, but quite inaccurate. MM respect women about the same as OW respect men.

[justice]

Cas, I do see what you are saying, if my ow was like you we could have talked, as it is she refused when I asked for a meeting with her and continued onto some pretty drastic and frightening things. I agree if ow and w's could get together without anger and do something then there wouldn't be as many situations or affairs maybe. Oh I didn't put that right!! You know what I'm saying. Some OW's though are not like you, most the time they aren't.

[RealityCheck]

One other thing, my view of women has changed drastically from before I had the affair. Formerly I felt that they were the "sugar and spice" of the nursery rhyme. Now I feel that I have a more balanced view of women. Some women are very good, kind, wonderful people. Others are SOB's. Just like men.

 

I had a problem. It was my problem - not yours. I acted badly. I hurt my wife, I hurt the OW and I hurt myself. I didn't care about the OW when I was having the affair, I just lied my a$$ off. I didn't think my wife would ever know, but realized in the end I needed to tell her, so that our relationship could either heal or end, depending on what she wanted. I wanted her to be OK, and would have gladly given up my life to make that happen.

 

I posted here because of the attitude of the OP that she knew the REAL truth, the WHOLE truth about the MM, and the wife was ignorant. That certainly wasn't the case for me. My wife in the end knew the REAL, WHOLE truth. The OW never knew me, and never received any truth from me. She heard only lies from me. I told her what I knew she wanted to hear, that's all.

 

Your point about respecting women, is well taken, but quite inaccurate. MM respect women about the same as OW respect men.

 

The original poster never said anything about the wife being ignorant! She simply asked "HOW" do they do it!

 

Secondly, I never suggested that I take on "your problem". Because it is just that "your problem".

 

Lastly, every situation is different! Some MM are not in love with their wives and do have genuine feelings for the OW and some do leave their marriage. Some OW's do have respect for their MM and do love them.

 

Good luck to you.

[justice]

btw. My H has nothing to lose in our sitch. I owned everything prior to the marriage. If that helps any.

[norajane]

btw. My H has nothing to lose in our sitch. I owned everything prior to the marriage. If that helps any.

 

He has you to lose, plus all the benefits of 'having' all the things you owned/brought into the marriage. He would lose the house he's living in, and any other financial security you brought to the marriage. In a divorce, he would have none of those things anymore and would be entirely reliant on what he can achieve for himself by starting over.

[bullhunter]

RC - you assumed I was directing my comment to you, apparently. I wasn't.

[Buttaflyy]

It's really not complicated. Married people shouldn't cheat - if you make a lifetime commitment, stick to it. Single people shouldn't get into relationships with those who are married - they are off limits. No exceptions. Any deviation from those rules, and there's no one to blame but yourself for the consequences, whether they be a betrayed spouse's wrath or the loss of your own self-respect.

 

Just thought this should be repeated.

[silktricks]

My view is that we're all in it together - men and women, both - and we all have a part in creating a society that encourages fidelity.

 

It comes down to having a healthy respect for the institution of marriage. We live in a society that teaches children very little about what marriage and commitment are about, and not much more about ethics and consequences of our actions, both external and internal.

 

We're all human and, as such, are prone to mistakes. However, we also raise our children to be ignorant of reality to some degree. How many people get married in their very early 20's with their parent's blessing? How many of those young people know anything about who they are, much less whether this person they've fallen for is someone they could even like 10 years later? Or how the pressures of marriage and life experiences might change them into different people? How many of them have been taught the elements of a successful marriage? How many have been taught to wait to get married until they know the significance of trust, honesty, kindness, generosity, intimacy vs. looks, money, status and lust?

 

Women and men can come together only by respecting each other first...and that's not something children are taught very often, either. Children don't even have respect for their own parents these days, much less other people.

 

It's really not complicated. Married people shouldn't cheat - if you make a lifetime commitment, stick to it. Single people shouldn't get into relationships with those who are married - they are off limits. No exceptions. Any deviation from those rules, and there's no one to blame but yourself for the consequences, whether they be a betrayed spouse's wrath or the loss of your own self-respect.

 

This is the best post I've read in a long long time. Thank you Norajane.

[Guest]

Casoria....did you have a kid when you were still in high school?

[bunset]

But I will tell you this, he does think of the other woman. A day doesn't go by. If they can cover up their actions while they are with the woman, they can cover their thoughts, too. If he is that caring, he will feel remorse for hurting another human being. It might not be while he is waiting for the dust to settle with you. It might not be on Christmas Day either. But those memories will come back and he will feel like crap. You will wonder why he is feeling down or off to himself for a few days. It's because he misses that spot that goes unattended by the wife becasue the wife is afraid to "go there" and he knows that he really hurt another human being. Just because you don't care about my feelings, doesn't stop him from caring even if he can't walk into the livingroom and ask for a moment of silence.

 

Wives, he stays for more than LOVE. Sure he loves you. But he loved me, too. He might tell you it was just physical...but it was love. He picks you because you hold the cards. And most men do not want to give up everything they have to start over.

 

And for the record. I do care for the wife which is the only reason that I am openly telling you my thoughts. But you don't want to listen, you just want to blame the other woman, stick out your tongue and say "I got him!" Have him. I can do better. But try to figure out that spot and be open to dealing with everythign that's in there.

This makes some sense. I know that I wouldn't be working on a divorce if my H and I could be friends enough to discuss what's in our hearts with each other without fear of anger or derision.

When a marriage or any relationship cannot be filled with acceptance for the partner's thoughts, or the willingness to share your deepest, darkest thoughts, then it is vulnerable to intrusion and 'contamination' by almost anything at all.

We all need friendship and safe harbor from even our own self-doubts. When you can provide that to someone, and they know it, you will have the key to their heart, always.

[bullhunter]

I think what you have written here is a bunch of bull! Do you actually think there is a difference between an EA & as you call is a full PA? Did you really tell your wife EVERYTHING? I think the only truth is that you didn't love the OW, and don't love your wife either. You are just trying to save yourself. You didn't have an affair because you were mad at your wife, you had an affair because it made you feel good. Selfish, no? The only way YOU will heal is if you admit it to yourself.

 

According to my wife, her pain is somewhat less because it was an EA. Do I feel less guilty? I don't know, as the depth of pain and shame I feel about what I did do seems impossible to measure.

 

Did I really tell my wife EVERYTHING? Yes, I did.

 

No, I didn't love the OW, to be honest, I didn't even like her. Had I liked her, or admired her I would not have done what I did. I used her, and that was shameful.

 

Do I love my wife? With every fiber of my being, to the point where if I felt it would help her, I would gladly sacrifice my life. I count myself as the luckiest of men that she forgave me and continues to love me.

 

Guest, I feel sorry for you, but the anger you feel towards me is insane. I haven't done anything to you personally, unless you happened to be the OW I had an EA with. If you are she, I'm sorry you were hurt and I deeply regret what I did. I hope you get on with your life and have peace in your soul.

[bullhunter]

If women, especially wives, think that he loves them more because he got busted and now remorseful, then wives need to RETHINK what love is. Believe me, I as the other woman is rethinking it!

 

Norajene, I do know that I was in a spot but it was big enough for him to violate his vows and betray his spouse, tell me he couldn't stand his wife and that he wished he never married her because he wouldn't have been manipulated into giving her everything. I didn't betray her. He did. But the thing is that the wives need to get inside that spot and find out what makes him tick in there. Not just the part about him having an affair and for how long. But find out what he really liked about me. And that's why I say that you should allow him to really tell you the truth about his feelings without condemnation and it doesn't always have to end with "but wife, I picked you." Allow him to tell you his deepest sexual desires that might include more than just you. And be open to allowing him to express it.

 

But I will tell you this, he does think of the other woman. A day doesn't go by. If they can cover up their actions while they are with the woman, they can cover their thoughts, too. If he is that caring, he will feel remorse for hurting another human being. It might not be while he is waiting for the dust to settle with you. It might not be on Christmas Day either. But those memories will come back and he will feel like crap. You will wonder why he is feeling down or off to himself for a few days. It's because he misses that spot that goes unattended by the wife becasue the wife is afraid to "go there" and he knows that he really hurt another human being. Just because you don't care about my feelings, doesn't stop him from caring even if he can't walk into the livingroom and ask for a moment of silence.

 

Wives, he stays for more than LOVE. Sure he loves you. But he loved me, too. He might tell you it was just physical...but it was love. He picks you because you hold the cards. And most men do not want to give up everything they have to start over.

.

 

Casoria, you are talking about your experience with the man you were with, and may possibly have been true for him. I doubt it, though.

 

I was a MM, and I can tell you that what you are saying has little if anything to do with how I felt or how I feel. I'm sorry I gave pain to my wife. I think about what I put her through, constantly. The only time I ever think of the OW is if my wife brings it up, or I'm stupid enough to read some postings, and get angry at the attitudes displayed toward the wives by the OW's.

 

And for the record, again, just as ManAlive said, I didn't love the OW. It was not love. I told her that I did because it was what she wanted to hear. I picked my wife because I loved her, not because she "held all the cards".

 

If I truly wanted a divorce my wife would have given me one with no bickering, no hassles. We would have parted amicably. I would have lost nothing, nor would she.

[newbby]

bullhunter,

if i remember rightly, you told your story a while ago, and it went something like this:

i was angry at my wife and became friends with an ow, the ow wanted me romantically, and so to pay her back for stepping on my wifes territory, i pretended to have an ea with her.

i really dont think your story is typical of an a.

[Guest]

bullhunter,

if i remember rightly, you told your story a while ago, and it went something like this:

i was angry at my wife and became friends with an ow, the ow wanted me romantically, and so to pay her back for stepping on my wifes territory, i pretended to have an ea with her.

i really dont think your story is typical of an a.

 

 

Is there a "typcial a"? Evertime I see a man say something different than what ow want to hear they say "every case is different". Why discount bullhunter because he says what you don't want to hear?

[BUTAFLY]

To my OW: I never liked you. If I had like you, I never would have been with you. I know that sounds disgusting, but unfortunately, it is the truth. I never intended to leave my wife. I was angry with her. Unbelievably angry. Anything I did with you was not driven by any kind of love or feelings for you. I had none, other than some degree of disgust. You were nothing, and you meant nothing to me. It wasn't until after I told my wife about it, and SHE pointed out to me that you were hurt by my actions as well that I even slightly considered what, if any, pain you might experience.

 

Do I ever appreicate you bold candid honesty. I only wish my ex-MM would've put it that bluntly so it would give me the ammo to hate him. But the problem is he lies and gives other reasons for stayin with the w. All the while communicating with me he is not not happy in M. (of course he's with me if he's not happy...if he was I wouldn't be a factor)

 

I suspect alot of situations are like yours- the MM is angry, frustrated, at his wits end in his marriage and the affair is acting out therefore using the OW. Telling her what she needs to hear so he can to he can secure the benefits. Benefits from getting whats lacking at home - fulling the false sense of love, being desired, sexual gratifcation.

 

Unfortunately some men are sociopathic to the point no oneelse matters when it comes to fulling thier own selfish needs. But I thank you for shedding light and bringing it to the fore front.

[newbby]

Is there a "typcial a"? Evertime I see a man say something different than what ow want to hear they say "every case is different". Why discount bullhunter because he says what you don't want to hear?

 

how do you know what i want to hear?

i would say that bullhunters story is rare, because it is. not many mm have affairs in order to teach the ow a lesson.

for your information my opinion of a "typical" a (and i am open to exceptions), is one where mm uses ow, intentionally or not, and it is nothing to do with whether i want it to be the case or don't.

[Blind Illusion]

how do you know what i want to hear?

i would say that bullhunters story is rare, because it is. not many mm have affairs in order to teach the ow a lesson.

for your information my opinion of a "typical" a (and i am open to exceptions), is one where mm uses ow, intentionally or not, and it is nothing to do with whether i want it to be the case or don't.

I agree with you here, Newbby. Let's hope Bullhunter's story is rare. That's sorta scary, someone appointing themselves to teach other people lessons.

 

What I think is more common is a scenario where the MM thinks its love with the OW, only to realize otherwise as time goes on.

[newbby]

What I think is more common is a scenario where the MM thinks its love with the OW, only to realize otherwise as time goes on.

 

i agree with this. i dont think affairs are usually calculated at all. just confusing moves on everyones part really.

[Ladyjane14]

I think some of you are giving more credit for 'deep thinking' to some of these guys than they truly deserve. Not every MM is moved by his feelings. It's a difficult thing to accept, but some of these guys view sex simply as a commodity and they're willing to do what they have to do in order to get it. I refer you to this earlier post by ManAlive:

 

I’ve been lurking here as a guest for some time; a work colleague who is getting married is forever on here so I came in one day to see why she was never doing any work. I wasn’t going to register, I’ve just been reading posts relevant to my situation. But I have to comment on a few things.

 

I came here hoping to get some insight into the female brain for my situation, but it seems that women are just as clueless about men. So here, if you want it, is the perspective of the MM.

 

First of all let me tell you one crucial thing about men – we are always amazed that any woman agrees to sleep with us. We are always grateful that you are the small percentage that doesn’t turn us down when we come onto you. Don’t dismiss that thought, because for every successful relationship a man has, 20 women have probably said “No thanks”. As a woman, that might be hard for you to understand because as a rule you don’t do the chasing. But men get used to rejection. As a MM this is even more so, because despite what people think, most women will not entertain the idea of sleeping with a MM. So any acceptance we get from someone who will is unusual.

 

So with that in mind, it follows that any woman who does sleep with us (unless she is completely awful) we are going to want to hang onto her, so we can continue to get laid.

 

Got that?

 

Right. In my marriage, like in most, we had a bit of a dip after our second child was born. My W was tired and the “honeymoon” period was over. It was just a dip though, and I knew the deep love I had for my W was the result of a shared history, she had seen me at my best and worst and I wasn’t going anywhere.

 

But I missed the slowing down of sex while the kids were young. We still had sex, but not as often.

 

When I met the OW, she at first wasn’t interested but we got to talking about the little problems I was having in my marriage. I never told her about the good stuff, because when you are upset about something you’re not thinking about that. I noticed that the more I exaggerated what my wife was like, the more affectionate she became, so I carried on. I said some really awful things about my W, things I am ashamed to repeat here. Eventually we started an affair. Finally I was getting the amount of sex I wanted, and I didn’t want that to end.

 

After a while, she went from being cool about everything to getting more and more upset whenever I mentioned my W, kids etc. Over a period of about six months, she went from only being in it for fun like I was, to seeming more intense. To get to the sex, we had to go through a lot of talking about our feelings etc.

 

And frankly, I wanted to get to the sex part, so I told her stuff I shouldn’t have. She would get upset and wonder if I had feelings for her, so I told her that I loved her. She wondered how I could love two people, so I told her that my marriage was over, it was just a loveless arrangement now for the sake of the kids. She asked me if I still slept with my wife. Hell, I may be dumb, but I know the answer to that one.

 

And when I had held her and stroked her hair, told her how much she meant to me, she had sex with me. Mission accomplished. Not necessarily the same day, sometimes she just wanted to know I wanted her for herself. But sex was a big part of our relationship because otherwise what’s the point?

 

As time went on, I got the feeling that she would stop seeing me if I didn’t leave my wife. See my point above – no man wants to lose the sex he’s getting and will do pretty much anything to hang onto it. So I told her what she wanted to hear, and pretty convincingly too. I discovered that most women will think you are amazing for saying you can’t do that to your kids. They will tell you that they couldn’t be with someone who didn’t care that much for the kids anyway. Oh, and the major thing I told her was when she asked me who I would choose if I had to make a choice – of course I told OW that I would choose her.

 

So anyway, a few white lies and she’s agreeing to wait a few years (by which time I hoped I’d have thought of something else), and we’re back to having sex.

 

Eventually, through a mutual “friend”, my W finds out and is distraught. She knew we were going through a not so good time, but unlike me she also knew we would get through it and was prepared to grit her teeth through the not so good times.

 

When my W found out, my world crumbled. I had to face things I hadn’t wanted to face. I had told myself that what my W didn’t know wouldn’t hurt her and didn’t let myself think about the fact I might lose her. Suddenly, all the problems we had been having disappeared, and I saw only the woman who had pledged her life to me, borne my children, held my head when I was sick, made me my favourite sandwiches for lunch. And I had hurt her desperately. And all for someone who was little more than a regular lay for me. Sure I was fond of the OW, but what I felt for her was nothing compared to what my W and our history meant. It took the shock of my W finding out for me to realise that fully.

 

There was no way I was going to leave my W for someone who knew me so little. OW thought she knew me, but that knowledge was based on all the hair-stroking gentle kisses sweet-talk. It was false, to stop her breaking up with me.

 

When I told the OW I was staying with my W, the crap hit the fan and she went hysterical for a while. I’d told my W what I now knew to be the truth – that the OW was just sex and affection. But the OW was threatening to spill the beans on what I had told her. And I had told her those things, but I didn’t want my W to believe they were true, because they weren’t. I did not want to hurt the OW by saying they were all lies, because I didn’t want to mess her up for life. OK, so this is where I become a real bastard. So I met up with the OW one final time, and yes we had sex. I’m not proud of that, but it was a part of convincing her what I told her. I cried and said how much I loved her and wanted her and that my W was holding the kids and the house over my head. I said that I had decided to sacrifice our happiness together and hoped she would understand. Of course she did, because I piled on the flattery tearfully. I held her and buried my face in her neck and she even said I was shaking at one point. She told me she understood and that she would always love me if I changed my mind.

 

I drove away, breathed a huge sigh of relief and went back to my beautiful wife. I cannot now believe my stupidity – that I was willing to risk it all for some woman who I had never spent long periods of time with. The occasional night, one weekend, but apart from that just snatches of time here and there. That isn’t a real relationship. My OW believed we were soulmates, and I used to tell her I agreed. She wasn’t my soulmate. My soulmate is the woman who is there waiting for me every night. The OW and I never got over that honeymoon period (how can you when you don’t share all your life with someone) and as I now know, it’s once that period is over that the real love starts.

 

So why do wives take back cheating partners? I don’t know, but thank god they do. Because otherwise I’d be stuck with someone I’d started off lying to, trying to find a way to get my wife back.

 

Sorry if this all makes me sound cold, I just wanted to state a few hard facts. Because I was that man who whispered love and devotion and promises. I don’t kid myself that anyone is going to apply this to their situation (you’ll tell yourself that your MM is different and he means what he says), but hopefully it might hit home with someone and you’ll stop yourself being hurt before he does it for you. If I could turn back time, I would. Three hurting people would not now be in pain.

 

This is the truth for some of these guys. It's not something that most women can wrap their minds around..... but it is what it is. Men are both simpler and more complicated than we give them credit for.

 

You know how sometimes when you ask a man... "Honey, what are you thinking about?", and he says "Nothing.".....

 

You know what he's really thinking about???

 

Nothing.

 

:laugh: :laugh:

[Ladyjane14]

I almost forgot to address the original thread topic....

 

Women have alot of reasons to forgive a straying husband. Some of the reasons are more pragmatic having to do with continuity of the family and family lifestyle. Some of the reasons are more emotional having to do with love and history as a couple.

 

What I find interesting... is the frequency of this particular question lately in the OW forum.

 

The same is true in reverse, you know. From DAY ONE, an OW who is aware of a MM's status is required to "forgive" him for living with another woman (his wife). From DAY ONE, she's required to share.

 

So....to the active OW.... How do YOU forgive him? Why do YOU take him back? Afterall, it's not like you don't know that he's fully capable of lying his ass off. Why do YOU trust him?

[stoopid_guy]

The same is true in reverse, you know. From DAY ONE, an OW who is aware of a MM's status is required to "forgive" him for living with another woman (his wife). From DAY ONE, she's required to share.

 

So....to the active OW.... How do YOU forgive him? Why do YOU take him back? Afterall, it's not like you don't know that he's fully capable of lying his ass off. Why do YOU trust him?

 

Wow! Neat perspective.

 

If from day one, she's required to share (and we're assuming here that she knows he's married) it seems she's willing to put more into the relationship than the SO. She loves him despite the fact that he's married. Maybe because he's willing to take a greater risk to be with her?

 

Also, most people are fully capable of lying their asses off. I suspect that the OW/OM has the "it'll never happen to me" attitude.

 

(Where I'm coming from: I had an affair with a MW many years ago, and didn't know she was married until a couple of months into it. I broke it off a couple of months later by moving to Athens. Now, I'm married and having an EA.)

[silktricks]

The same is true in reverse, you know. From DAY ONE, an OW who is aware of a MM's status is required to "forgive" him for living with another woman (his wife). From DAY ONE, she's required to share.

 

So....to the active OW.... How do YOU forgive him? Why do YOU take him back? Afterall, it's not like you don't know that he's fully capable of lying his ass off. Why do YOU trust him?

 

Brilliant as always, LJ.

[silktricks]

i would say that bullhunters story is rare, because it is. not many mm have affairs in order to teach the ow a lesson.

 

ya know, I dont think I ever really believed his original story. It always seemed more like it's what he wanted to believe - or wanted his wife to believe. Though I've gotta admit that I did enjoy the way he told it.

 

It's kinda changed a little with time, though, don't ya think?