Is this cheating?

[Kathleen2260]

My bf of 4 years (we live together and had planned on getting married) had gotten close to his ex about a year ago. The ex is married and cheats on her husband frequently. My bf and the ex dated about 10 years ago (he is in his 30's). They have kept in contact on and off ever since. My bf and I actually went to his ex's wedding. (he is friends with several of his ex and even works with one that he was engaged to)

 

About a year ago I became concerned because my bf was spending a lot of time with his ex and lying to me about it. I found out thru messages on the answering machine she left (that I got to before he did) that they were talking frequently. She was also stopping at OUR house to see him. So I thought she was trying to pursue him. He told me they were just friends and was angry at me when I suggested he not talk to her as much. He kept saying I was trying to take his friends away and i had nothing to worry about. But I had this nagging feeling the whole time (this lasted about four months) that something was wrong. When we would run into the ex she would not speak to me. She would also ignore him at times too. Yet he would tell me how they always talked and how nice she was and it seemed odd that she would act like such a bitch when I was around. We even went out to dinner with her and her husband as my bf was trying to ease my fears that something was going on.

 

My bf and I constantly fought about the ex. I didnt want him talking to her all the time and I felt that he was always picking her over me and my feelings. He would promise not to talk to her and then she would call and right in front of me he would talk to her all happy for a half hour or so. It was like a slap in the face. ANd he always had excuses. Once he told me he wasn't talking to her anymore and that from now on no more lies. I found out the day after he told me all that BS he stopped at her work to see her. WHen I found out I asked him WHY did he stop and see the ex after he told me he didn't plan on even talking to her. He said that he "wanted to make sure she was ok" I asked what was wrong with her and he said nothing. ANd I was like well what about me? I'm not ok and you dont' care.

 

WHen I look back in hindsight I KNEW something was going on. But what stopped me from believing it at the time was because the ex just didn't seem to be into my bf. I overheard one of their phone conversations and she just talked to him like a friend (the convo was taped so they didn't know I was listening) and she just had this bored disinterested tone in her voice. Not the tone of someone you are having an affair with or have some kind of emotional connection with. Eventually the ex started dating one of my bf's close friends (yes she is still married as well) and most of the contact between them stopped except she would invite us as a couple to do things with her and her husband. Which was odd. At the time when they were always talking my bf did tell me that his feelings toward me changed and it had nothing to do with the ex but he didn't see a future for us because I was always mad at him and accusing him of stuff (because of HER) so he did tell me he wanted to break up and I started looking for a place to move to and suddenly he changed and told me that he loved me and wanted to work things out. And he really did try.

 

So everything was fine and then almost a year later, I find out that there was something going on back then. It wasn't what I thought (they weren't sleeping together) but my bf had developed feelings for the ex and told her this and told her he wanted her to leave her husband and be with him. She then stopped talking to him for a week and so he wrote her a note telling her again how he felt about her. He said he couldnt' stop thinking about her. Meanwhile he would come home at night and have sex with me and tell me he loved me. All while he was thinking of her. I hate him for this. But I just found this note (a copy of it) recently even though all this happened last summer. I also found out that the ex never responded to his note or to his feelings. She basically never brought it up and then she showed the note to some of his friends and MADE FUN OF HIM for writing a note to her. All behind his back. None of his friends told him this. Shortly after the ex received this note she started an affair with my bf's close friend (who is in his 40s.)

 

Today the ex is still married and still having the affair with my boyfriend's friend. Since I just found this note and feel that my fears have been proven we have gone to counseling once. My boyfriend wants to work this out and has agreed to have no contact with the ex. He is also angry at her for the way she treated him. But he still thinks that she shared his feelings. If I point out (meanly) that she didn't give a sh*t about him he will get mad and say that I don't KNOW that. Well from her behavior she acted like she could have cared less about him. He considers what he did as "nothing" and feels its not cheating because she didn't have sex with her. I feel like he cheated on me because #1 he lied to me, #2 he had feelings for someone else and ACTED on it. Is this considered cheating or am I overreacting?

[JadeStar]

Its what you call emotional cheating. Yes its a form of cheating. So many ppl feel that they are NOT cheating as long as its not physical. That is false. Emotional cheating to me can be far worse, since there is a bond/connection that can be formed. Its a matter of the heart and mind, not the body, but can sometimes lead to the physcial part of it.

 

 

 

Jade

[a4a]

Cheating?

 

yes in my book because he did it behind your back.

 

lied.......yes

 

betrayl..........yes

 

put you second.............yes

 

If she let him have a sexual affair with her would he have....... yes

 

Does he continue to think that there is still something between them....... I would think so if he is so angry when you state that he was rejected by her.

 

Don't even think about marriage until this is ironed out..... with complete NC with the ex....... even then there is way too much damage IMHO..... but that is your choice.

[ashnicole]

Yes, he cheated on you, in the worst way possible.

 

Women put so much emotions into a relationship. Guys on the other hand, can have sex, and not feel a damn thing. BUT, you know a guy is real when he puts his honest emotions into anything. So, he cheated in the worst way possible, because his feelings were actually involved. Would he have left you, if she had shown interest in him right back, the same way he did? Of course. He would have been out the door, with her. Would he regret it? More than likely. She's an ex for a reason, and they probably wouldn't have stayed together, seeing as she was/still is married.

 

Yes, he cheated. I'd leave him, and he wouldn't get a second chance. But this is all up to you... it's your relationship, and you know the two of you better than any of us do. Good luck in whatever happens.

[crazy_grl]

I posted in your other thread too, and I basically already answered your question there (yes, it's cheating).

 

I know this stuff is probably hard to read, but it's all true. Your bf is still in denial about how sh*tty he was treated by his ex and how she couldn't care less about him. Don't let yourself have that same denial. Your bf clearly shows he cares more about himself than about you.

 

I've had experience with a guy putting another girl ahead of me, saying they were just friends, getting angry at me for saying anything even remotely close to negative about her, saying I wanted to control him and take away his friends, treating me I like was just a real bitch and I was the one with the problem. So I know how aweful it can make you feel and how you can start to question yourself and think that you're being irrational, that your anger isn't justified.

 

But this guy cheated on you and you have every right to be pissed. Stick up for yourself, and don't let him try to justify behavior that there is no excuse for.

[Guest]

bhgwngAbsolutely it is cheating. I went through a very similar situation. I cought my bf cheating on me and he as well told me he didn't love me the same way anymore and that we were over. He claims that he didn't have sex with her because she shot him down. If she would have let him, it would have happened. She worked with him, she was his assistant.

 

Please girl, stand up for yourself. Even if you don't want to end it, give him something to think about. That's what I did and I'll tell you, I've got him right where I want him. Ignore his calls for a few weeks. As much as you want to pick up the phone to call him, call someone else instead to talk you through it. When you do take him back, make sure it's under your terms and let him know that he needs to prove himself to you.

 

I am also going through counceling right now and it is working for me and re-establishing our relationship. We are becoming friends again and no sex until I feel that I can trust him again, which won't be for a while. I kinda like just being friends. No preasure or disappointment. Whatever happens, happens.

[Walk]

He cheated. Emotional affairs are cheating. He denied something precious and unique to the two of you (his feelings).

 

He would've had sex with her if she would've given him the time of day. I think he still would, and the only reason he's trying to work on the relationship with you is because she's found a new boy toy. Otherwise he would curse her name as loudly as you do. You stick up for things you care about... you dont' defend something you couldn't care less for. He's sticking up for her by insisting she cared for him. Making her the unrequitted lover who he cast aside in favor of you... when in fact she ignored his ass and laughed about it. Whatever world he lives in, it's not based in reality.

 

Out of curiousity, why does no one say anything to her husband? I'd want someone to tell me if I was so blind not to see it. Then kick my ass for being so blind, although I'd probably do that to myself.

 

I think the minute she's tired of the new boy toy she'll come sniffing 'round your bf again, and he'll go running like a dog in heat.

 

Sorry to be so doomsday, and negative. But his responses and inability to deal with the truth are causing me to doubt his sincerity.

[Kathleen2260]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I actually agree with you I guess I was just looking to validate my own feelings. That happens when you've been lied to for so long. You don't trust your gut instinct. I can say I am about 90% sure that nothing would happen between my bf and his ex as long as I am still with him. Because if he so much as talks to her and I find out (after he promised NC) I will be out the door. I was ready to leave when I first found out but I was so depressed I didn't have the enegry to get out of bed much less pack up my stuff and find an apartment (the house is his).

 

And after I thought about it for awhile, after the anger went away a bit I just figured I was over reacting because all of this happened over a year ago (I just found out for sure though) and I let him talk me into the fact that he did not sleep with her then it wasn't really cheating. But I have always believed he betrayed me.

 

If one of my friends was going through this situation I would tell him/her to leave the sob and never look back. But then I make excuses for staying- thinking well look at my friends/family members' relationships- I mean some of my friends have to deal with husbands that are like children- they can't even dress themselves or clean up. One of my close friends is planning a wedding with a guy who has a horrible temper that I just know is going to turn into abuse. Others are in relationships with people who are irresponsible with money, with their kids whatever. So I look at my own bf and say well yeah he's bad but not as bad as some others who are out there. I was in a relationship for five years with a guy who would never have cheated on me and probably will never cheat on anyone but we had other issues- he was addicted to porn, he was selfish etc. So when i look at what my bf has done it doesn't seem so horrible to me because he could be worse. I know that is a terrible way to look at it.

 

As for the last poster that said why doesn't someone tell his ex's husband what is going on. Well I don't have any proof, and her affair with my bf's buddy has been going on for over a year so if her husband hasn't caught on by now then maybe he never will. I have considered telling him out of revenge or just to warn him (the ex told my bf that her husband beats her when he gets angry at her- I sort of doubt that but have no experience (luckily) with physical abuse but I would think that if I were threatened with a beating I would not be running around with several men at once behind my husband's back) So quite possibly the husband knows and doesn't care. He is gone several days a week as he is a truck driver so it is probably easy for her to get away with her cheating.

 

Anyway, I know that I"m not in a good situation adn that even though my bf is trying to work things out with me and even agreed to counseling I still do fear that a similiar situation could occur in the future. I don't think it will involve the same ex because he says now he sees her for who she really is (in his words she cheats (duh) she lies, she just uses guys to get attention adn she does some drugs, drinks all the time, parties too much and they dont have anything in common) I know that is partly his anger talking but I"m glad he doesn't defend her. My concern is that he didn't see all of this in the first place!!! I mean it was evident to everyone else! Plus he says he wanted her to leave her husband which kills me because he wanted more than a fling with her. I guess to him she was the "one who got away" and we probably all have those exes that we forget why we left them or they left us and we sort of romantice their existence and forget the bad parts of the relationship. I am just trying to figure out my next move. Stick with counseling and see if he sticks to his NC end of the bargain? Or just give up and move on?

[Walk]

So when i look at what my bf has done it doesn't seem so horrible to me because he could be worse.

 

"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know". That kind of thing? I understand where you're coming from. I'm not knocking you with the quote... I can relate.

 

So quite possibly the husband knows and doesn't care. He is gone several days a week as he is a truck driver so it is probably easy for her to get away with her cheating.

 

My bf's a truck driver so I'm probably identifying a little too closely with the hubby, but... tell him! Poor schmuck is probably exhausted from running all week, or 2-3 weeks at a time, and is too tired to see what's going on. I could've fooled my bf a million times if I'd wanted too. He wouldn't have known if I cheated to save his life. Not because he doesn't care, but they really run those guys ragged. 14 hour days is a minimum, not max. And if she's home those few days he's home and pretend at all, then he wouldn't have a clue.

 

Stick with counseling and see if he sticks to his NC end of the bargain? Or just give up and move on?

 

Whatever you chose, do so with all your heart. Make a choice and stick with it with everything you have. If you give it your all, then no matter what path your bf chooses in the future you won't have any reason to regret the choices you made. That's always been my philosophy and I can look back on my past with a calm mind.

[Sal Paradise]

Of course its cheating. Not only that but YOU are HIS 2nd choice. If she would of left her husband he would of left you. He would probably leave you now if she came crawling back.

 

Dump that loser.

[purspeed]

You're going to stay with him regardless of our advice, you're just venting and want some pity.

[megnog]

ouch purspeed.

 

but you may be right..

 

no matter what we say, you could still very well stay with him because you're too afraid to leave him.

well leave him.

he was ready to leave you, do you really want that? who's to say its not going to happen again in the future? don't put up with his crap and wait for him to leave you. leave him damnit.

[jobo777]

I had the same experience with my wife "emotionally cheating" with the same co-worker twice.

 

Since, she has moved companies and has NO contact with anyone from her last company.

 

I do feel that it is cheating, even if there is no "physical" activities going on.

[Sup]

I would tell her hubby anyway, even without proof. He may have suspisions himself. Oh, and LOSE that bf!

[purspeed]

ouch purspeed.

 

but you may be right..

 

no matter what we say, you could still very well stay with him because you're too afraid to leave him.

well leave him.

he was ready to leave you, do you really want that? who's to say its not going to happen again in the future? don't put up with his crap and wait for him to leave you. leave him damnit.

 

I am new to these boards, but I have vast experience with relationships, dating, etc.

 

My advice may seem cold, cruel and heartless, but if you have a disspassionate, experienced eye, you understand that my advice is short, to the point and cuts to the heart (pun intended) of the matter.

 

This chick is obviously not going anywhere, eventhough she knows he's cheating.

 

As a matter of fact, she might even enjoy the drama, from what I gather.

[Kathleen2260]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and advice.

 

This chick is obviously not going anywhere, eventhough she knows he's cheating.

As a matter of fact, she might even enjoy the drama, from what I gather.

 

Actually no I don't enjoy the drama, I didn't post here to try to receive pity- I don't want pity, I just want to know others' point of view.

 

Fortunately for most of my friends they have never been in long term relationships that involve the kind of behavior my bf exhibits. So most of them have told me that what he's done is wrong, but its not cheating and not worth leaving him over because nothing physical happened. Thats why I am asking for the opinions of people on this board, who have dealt with similiar situations. Plus this all happened over a year ago and he's had NO contact with the ex in the last eight months or so. The reason this is so new to me is that I just found out about 2 months ago what actually happened. Before that time even though I suspected, he denied that he had any feelings for her. I happened to find a note that he had written to her and with that proof I confronted him and he confessed.

 

In my past if someone had done this to me I would have kicked his ass out without a second thought, but I guess I'm not feeling that strong right now and am taking the time to think things over first.

[Walk]

He keeps lying and lying and lying... and your actions condone the behavior.

 

I know how things seem different when you're in the situation. It never seems cut and dry, black and white. But I wonder how you can love someone who you know doesn't have a problem lying to you. Who can do so straight faced while looking you in the eye.

 

You deserve a better man than this. He's using you. Maybe you are using him a little right now too. Trying to bolster your self-esteem enough to get the energy to leave. Or maybe hoping in time you'll forget. That it will go away.

 

Have you thought about some counseling to help you work through this? Even temporarily going to give you a safe place to talk and work on your self-esteem. Something like this would damage anyone. If you need some additional help, find it. Its the mark of a strong person who can seek the help they need.

[megnog]

I know that this can be hard and you can be feeling weak but you are getting so much support just on here by telling you to break up with him.

 

I'm sure you don't enjoy the drama, who does? If you really don't want to break up with him, at least make him work for it.

 

I don't know..... I Still think you should drop him. hes not worth your time. just think if she had said yes...... where would be right now? single and lonely.. and that can't be a good feeling.

[purspeed]

Don't like it when I'm wrong, hate it when I'm right.

[john2776]

Yeah he cheated on you. I feel for you, because in my opinion you don't know how to move forward. I can imagine that you don't want it to be over because you love him, and you have invested so much, and you simply don't want to admit that the relationship failed. But inside you know that is has, and you try and convince yourself that what you have is enough. You can get by you think. I can think of lots of valid reasons for your to feel this way, but I don't think its a good idea. Everyone deserves better than that including you. If you were already married I would say stick with it and work at it, and good for you for wanting to get over it and accept it and evening trying to pretend that it wasn't cheating. But LUCKY for you, you're not. Life is too short to spend it with the wrong person, go find a man who will put you above all the other woman in his life.