Christ Was Born from a Virgin?

[Joelle]

Like I said from the beginning, it all comes down to faith.

 

I have never felt the need to doubt it, so therefore I didn't ever look for things that others would question.

 

I know in my heart that God made the world.

 

And I know in my heart that if people were more like Christ, the world would be a better place.

 

Yes, I know it all comes down to faith. Also, it comes down to what provides you peace of mind and peace of heart. I completely respect your point-of-view, and I think you're entitled to your beliefs.

 

As you may know, I have a very rational side. Sadly, for me, upon examination, Christianity does not give me peace of mind. One of it's fundamental facts (the bedrock one) is irrational and impossible to me. I cannot align myself with that idea.

[amaysngrace]

One of it's fundamental facts (the bedrock one) is irrational and impossible to me. I cannot align myself with that idea.

 

Okay so the only bedrock idea I know of is the Flinstones. I'm not trying to be stupid at all, but I have never studied fundamental facts.

 

But even whatever that may mean, do you think Jesus was on Earth at one time?

[Joelle]

Okay so the only bedrock idea I know of is the Flinstones. I'm not trying to be stupid at all, but I have never studied fundamental facts.

 

But even whatever that may mean, do you think Jesus was on Earth at one time?

 

Bedrock means the "most fundamental," "underlying foundation," etc. Hope that helps.

 

Most likely, I think Jesus was on earth at one time. I have more faith in THAT idea.

[amaysngrace]

Bedrock means the "most fundamental," "underlying foundation," etc. Hope that helps.

 

 

Thank you for that, but no, not really cleared it up for me.

 

Anyway, basically you believe in the stuff that's easier to grasp. It doesn't much matter really if you believe in this or believe in that.

 

What matters is you acknowledge that there is a force greater than yourself, one that has put you on the path you're on, and you are able to accept and respect that.

 

Every religion calls "God" by another name.

 

It's all the same God.

[burning 4 revenge]

the avatar on the left is a modern recreation done by anthropologists of the type of face jesus may have had. it's based on the skull of a first century palestinian peasant

[amaysngrace]

the avatar on the left is a modern recreation done by anthropologists of the type of face jesus may have had. it's based on the skull of a first century palestianian peasant

 

So, like what?

 

This is your purpose?

[burning 4 revenge]

So, like what?

 

This is your purpose?

 

i don't believe in purposes, but i thought it was interesting since we were on the subject of jesus history

[flavius]

And the face is indeed VERY interesting. So cool! Where did you find it?

 

Ummm. Is there a problem with "purposes?" Do you sort of equate "purpose" with "agendas" or "Ideologie?"

[Joelle]

Anyway, basically you believe in the stuff that's easier to grasp. It doesn't much matter really if you believe in this or believe in that.

 

What matters is you acknowledge that there is a force greater than yourself, one that has put you on the path you're on, and you are able to accept and respect that.

 

Every religion calls "God" by another name.

 

It's all the same God.

 

Well, I believe in events that are realistic, not what's easier to grasp. I grasp the idea of Virgin Birth, but I don't believe it.

 

Also, thanks for sharing your spiritual views. Believe it or not, I do have similar ones.

[amaysngrace]

Also, thanks for sharing your spiritual views. Believe it or not, I do have similar ones.

 

Yeah, I kind of got that about you!

[burning 4 revenge]

And the face is indeed VERY interesting. So cool! Where did you find it?

 

Ummm. Is there a problem with "purposes?" Do you sort of equate "purpose" with "agendas" or "Ideologie?"

 

i had it saved in my pictures. i believe it was originally found on a pbs website pertaining to a program they ran about the project. you can probaby find it if you google the real face of jesus, or what did jesus really look like, or something of the sort

[sno]

At the risk of being flamed and criticized, I must admit there's a fundamental Christian fact that I have a hard time accepting. The fact I'm referring to is: Christ was born from a virgin.

 

In this day and age, how do you Christians accept this? Do you accept it at face-value without scientific evidence? Have you ever examined this Christian fact?

 

With all due respect, I am highly skeptical of Christ's virginal birth. To me, I consider it a biological impossibility (and to a certain extent, an intellectual absurdity). Additionally, there's practically no evidence to support Christ's virginal birth to convince me otherwise.

 

Christians, enlighten me, please. I'm interested in how you accept Christ's virginal birth as "fact."

 

 

Ya know there is alot god does that has no scientific evidence. Think about it, god made the world, god made me and you, from scratch. If he did this, made the sun, I am pretty sure he can place a baby in a womans womb with out her having sex. His son is pure and had to be to die on a cross for me and you. A woman who never has had sex is the purest of all. That is why there are nun's in the world, they want to be pure for god. We are the people who made "scientific evidence". Somethings you just have to have faith of a mustard seed about. Then you can move mountains. There will never be anyone who can give you any proof of this besides for god. So the only advice I can give you is PRAY, ask God to give you the wisdom and knowlegde you need to understand this great miricle. I know from experence he will always come through for you no matter what. Until the it is something you just have to know in your heart and have faith about. I will be praying for you.

[sno]

My calling in life is not to convert others to Christianity...at least not today.

 

I am not trying to knock you on your beliefs or question you but I don't understand this quote from you. How can you be a christian and not try to convert others. As a christian you should be wanting every person you met to get saved...We are here only to serve the world. He wants everyone saved....that would be a great servace to him.

[amaysngrace]

I am not trying to knock you on your beliefs or question you but I don't understand this quote from you. How can you be a christian and not try to convert others. As a christian you should be wanting every person you met to get saved...We are here only to serve the world. He wants everyone saved....that would be a great servace to him.

 

I think I made my point when I said that the world'd be a better place if more people were like Jesus.

 

I am, by nature, peaceful. My actions speak volumes over my words.

 

I also don't believe that you need to be a Christian to have eternal life. I think a good soul is a good soul, no matter what the religious background.

 

Besides, who am I to say who will or won't go to Heaven? Only God knows the truth about who He'll let in, right?

[sno]

God wants everyone to come in. It says it in his word. It is up to us to get saved and follow his will. As for me no I don't have to have a eternity...but I did't write the bible. I am not god I didn't choose what I do. I just know I want to see God one day and be with him forever. Because he will allow me to and he wants me and you there also.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Joelle

 

 

I understand your situation. I was there too. How can this stuff be true without evidence, I mean how can this happen when it goes against natural law.

 

 

then I decided to go on faith and believe in God and his word. No different that an atheist going on faith that God does not exist, becasue theres no evidence that says he doesnt exist, they just go on faith...it goes both ways right?

 

 

Then..I found a trilogy of books by Lee Strobel. He was an atheist turned Christian by way of personal investiagtion into ALL of what Christ was, did and will do. He looked at the facts and scientific evidence to procure his faith and in the end....he now believes.

 

I have read all 3 books and I must say....it totally changed the way I think about Christianity. It debunked alot of my skepticism. And he wrote these books in a clear concise order that really makes sense.

 

 

I suggest you read them also, it may help you find what your looking for.

 

the books are:

 

The Case for Christ:

 

The Case for Faith

 

The Case of a Creator

 

 

The first one realy gave creadible information for the life of Christ and what really took place.

 

The second book (faith) was also very good.

 

The last book (Creator). WOW....that one blew me away. it was not geared toward a christian sense, but more of a "something bigger" is taking place here. It got into facts about biochemisty/molucular biology and DNA and how it works, Cosomolgy, astronomy, darwin thoery and human conscience. Was a real eye opener. The way these scientists described the complexity of the universe and DNA in the cell and what it takes for life to be be alive was amazing.

 

I recommend these books to ANYONE you has faith, but also questions.

[Moai]

Atheism is not based on faith. To say so is to belittle the faith that those have in god. There is no evidence that unicorns don't exist, but I don't think that I am taking it on faith in believing that there aren't any.

 

You see, everyone is an atheist. Hindus don't believe in the divinity of Christ. Neither do Muslims. Or Buddhists. And vice versa. Basically, as someone who identifies himself as an atheist, I reject one more god than believers do. That's about it.

 

How is it that myths from other religions can be so easily dismissed, but the myths from one's own system are accepted so easily?

 

I read somewhere that when the Bible mentions "born of a virgin" they are referring to a cultural practice where a man and woman are married, and for a year do not consumate. Because Mary got pregnant within that time, she was still in her Virgin year, and so was a "virgin" when Jesus was born. Now we have a different idea of what virginity is, but try to force the conecpt of the Virgin Birth into our cultural understanding.

 

I don't know if that is true or not, but it is an interesting idea. There is a History Channel show about it if I am not mistaken. They repeat things so much I am sure it will be on again at some point.

 

If God can "poof" a child into a womb, why not just "poof" an infant and give it to Mary, saving her all the hassle of a pregnancy? Or for that matter, why not just "poof" Jesus as a full grown man?

 

And if God actually impregnated Mary, that implies God having sex organs. Why would God, need sex organs, since He is the only one? There is nobody for Him to mate with. Why have gender if there is only one of it, and it doesn't reproduce? Why isn't god a "her", since it makes no difference?

 

And why is this idea accepted, but the idea of Zeus coming down and mating with humans is summarily rejected? I know, I know, Greek gods have fallen out of favor and so none of that is accepted anymore, but they make just as much sense. Actually, in some ways more so.

 

Oh, and what up Flavius?

[quankanne]

:laugh: yeah, Tony, my parents didn't do that to each other SIX DIFFERENT TIMES.

 

I think people are limiting the definition of virginity to a strictly sexual one when they think about the Blessed Mother, though we know there are other definitions for the word "virgin" – otherwise, it would go to say that "extra virgin olive oil" absolutely positively never, ever had sex, unlike plain old olive oil ...

 

in Catholic theology, Mary is considered the Immaculate Conception, or conceived without the stain of sin. Therefore she was a "pure vessel" in which the Son of God could be brought forth. And it makes a certain sense to me, because I've met people in my lifetime who even though I know were born with original sin just like me, who are very godly people, just like I know people who embrace the dark side of their human nature ...

 

Catholic theology also tells us that because Mary was incapable of sinning, she remained sinless the remainder of her life. Anne Rice, in an afterward in her novel Christ the Lord describes how she meticulously researched history and Scripture before writing the book, which has a passage where Jesus talks to his uncle about why his mom doesn't act wifely to her husband. There's a beautiful explanation about Mary, who is a consecrated virgin, fulfilled God's will by bearing Jesus, but remaining consecrated to God after giving birth, and how Joseph respected this.

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessed_Virgin_Mary gives a nice bit of info about the BVM, and the Anne Rice novel an unique insight into the theology behind Mary.

 

as someone else pointed out in an earlier post, it's much easier for me to grasp the Immaculate Conception and the Incarnation, than the resurrection, because it seems so impossible. But then again, that's what God's all about

[amaysngrace]

Why isn't god a "her", since it makes no difference?

 

 

Maybe She is

[Moai]

If I were to make a god up I would make it female. It just seems like a female god would be more forgiving and loving nurutring and all that jazz, which is what I would like in a god in the first place. And She would give the best hugs EVER.

[bluetuesday]

does it matter if jesus was born of a virgin? i mean does it really MATTER?

 

the catholic church didn't declare the virgin birth to be dogma (and therefore infallibly true) until 1854. before then, the issue was open to debate without debaters being labelled heretics.

 

it doesn't matter to me if jesus was born of a virgin. i have an opinion on the subject, but it's not important.

 

the salient point is this - was jesus so different from us that we can't possibly be like him and have to content ourselves with being sinners who need an outer saviour to be worthy of god, or was jesus an example that he intended us to follow?

 

i believe jesus was an example to follow and therefore whether he was born of a virgin is irrelevant. it's a detail which is totally unimportant when considering how to live my life.

[Joelle]

does it matter if jesus was born of a virgin? i mean does it really MATTER?

 

Yes, accepting this fact is key. Please refer to my post #11. A true Christian must accept the Virgin Birth.

 

Christians tout Christ to be Son OF GOD, not Son of Man. If Christ was Son of Man, he would be human, and be born with Original Sin. He himself would need to be saved. He would not be the the pure lamb God sent to be sacrificed for humanity. He would not be the Messiah. He would not be God in the flesh. Christianity would be a sham.

 

Also, if Mary was not a virgin, and lain with another man, she would be an impure vessel, as supposedly she was pregnant with Christ before she was engaged to Joseph. Additionally, Christ would be considered a lowly bastard (fathered by who knows who), and Mary a lowly adultress, as she had sex outside of marriage.

 

Thus, accepting the Virgin Birth as fact is very, very significant. Otherwise, Christianity would be DISCREDITED.

[tinktronik]

I thought the topic was Christ was born from a Vagina. .............. I guess that says a lot about me . Well I have nothing else to add so I'll be going now.Thanks.

[quankanne]

I imagine he was vaginally delivered, just like thousands of other babies at that time – remember, he experienced a full human life, save for the stain of sin. He questioned God, he got mad at people, he showed compassion, he loved, etc. The birth canal experience would be just another part of it, IMHO.

 

if a woman who was physically a virgin became artificially inseminated, gestated, then deliver the resulting baby, could she technically still be considered a virgin? No penile penetration takes place during artificial insemination ....

[Joelle]

if a woman who was physically a virgin became artificially inseminated, gestated, then deliver the resulting baby, could she technically still be considered a virgin? No penile penetration takes place during artificial insemination ....

 

Technically, I think she would still be a virgin.

 

However, she would no longer be a maiden, as she had a baby. I think that's the difference between virgin & maiden. Virgin means never had intercourse. Maiden means never had a baby.