"Marriage is a joke"

[beachlover]

My boyfriend, J, and I have been dating for more than two years and have recently been talking about marriage,probably in 3-4 years after we are both done with school. On several occasions when marriage was the topic he has said that he sees marraige as a joke, his thoughts behind that are that everyone gets divorced so what is the point. But at the same time he still wants to get married.

 

A little about our backgrounds... My parents divorced when I was 4, Dad remarried when I was 6 and Mom when I was 16, my dad is now on the verge of his second divorce. J's parents were happily married 23 years and divorced suddenly in July of 04, in January of 05 they got back together but not remarried, now last month they told us that they are seperating permanently.

 

I can see why he is skeptical about marriage, but I think that if I can still have faith in marriage after watching my parents my whole life then he should be able to as well. It kind of seems to me that he is not willing to do everything to make a marriage work, because divorce is always an option. I have a problem with this because after growing up with the mentality of "when I have step kids I will/won't..." I realised that I don't want step kids... I want my first marriage to work out, I am very adamant that divorce is not going to be an option when I get married.

 

What do you think about his thought that marriage is a joke? What do you think about marriage/divorce rates in todays society?

[HeyYouGuys]

I think too many people get married nowadays with unrealistic expectations. In other words, they rush in (because everyone else around them is, or because they want the big wedding) and then once things get difficult, they want out.

 

There's very little stigma attached to being divorced nowadays, so a lot of people see it as an easy out.

 

So few people want to dig in and work past the hard stuff. The reality of marriage is that once the honeymoon glow wears off and the romance dissipates, you are left with some very mundane truths about lifelong partnership.

 

(a) You may not always feel sexually attracted to one another

 

(b) You will discover your partner has faults. And some of them may be pretty big.

 

© You will have to make some compromises. You cannot do what you want to all the time.

 

(d) You will argue. You will fight. Sometimes you will wonder if you should get out.

 

 

The early years of marriage are often the most difficult. It takes time to learn how to work as a team.

 

I always have to stifle myself when I meet people who are in brand new relationships (under two years old) and they sigh, "Oh we NEVER fight. We understand each other perfectly! When we have a disagreement, we TALK it out."

 

I always think, "Give it time, sweetheart"

 

Anyway, marriage is NOT a joke but a lot of people TREAT it like a joke.

 

When it gets hard, they bail.

 

Tell your boyfriend that you take marriage very seriously. In fact, you would consider having couples counseling BEFORE getting married to discuss some of the very serious issues marriage raises.

 

There is over a 50% divorce rate in this country, which I think is very sad.

[bab]

I agree with most of what HeyYouGuys has to say.

 

It sounds like your bf might not be fully recovered from the split of his parents. The best thing for the two of you to do, is to discuss what YOUR expectations of your marriage will be. I think it happens way to often that people think that there is some set in stone marriage expectations that everyone has to abide by, and more scarily, they assume that their partners have the same expectations. When my husband and I were coming up with ours, it became clear that he was drawing heavily on what he had experienced in his parents marriage to determine what he felt his own should be like. It's quite possible that your bf had similar thoughts, but they've all just been blown out of the water. In his mind, if it didn't work out for his parents, why should it work out for him?

Come up with a game plan for why it should work for the two of you.

[Outcast]

Good post, Hey. If you want to read a TON more opinions on this, do a LS search on 'marriage'. It's been discussed at length many times.

[norajane]

Marriage is only a joke if that's how you treat it. Some people take it very seriously and wait until they are mature enough and confident enough in themselves and their partners to make the lifetime commitment.

[blind_otter]

Marriage is only a joke if that's how you treat it. Some people take it very seriously and wait until they are mature enough and confident enough in themselves and their partners to make the lifetime commitment.

 

Is this assuming that those with failed marriages didn't take it seriously? They weren't confident enough in themselves and their partners to make a lifetime committment? That's kind of insulting. I think most people sincerely believe their marriage will last. But there's no way to predict where you will be or what may happpen 10 years from now.

 

OP - If you can still have faith in marriage after growing up with divorced parents, that is great. But just because you do does not mean that your BF does. He isn't you, hasn't had the same experiences, and therefore is perfectly entitled to have a different opinion of marriage.

 

I feel the same way that he does, to be honest. I think marriage is a joke. It has meaning only to the people involved, and no longer has that larger cohesive sociocultural context that it once had.

 

I was watching late night TV a week or so ago and beyond that over 50% of marriages end in divorce statistic, there was the mention that conservative estimates guess that 50% of married people are unfaithful to their spouse at one time or another.

[norajane]

Is this assuming that those with failed marriages didn't take it seriously? They weren't confident enough in themselves and their partners to make a lifetime committment? That's kind of insulting. I think most people sincerely believe their marriage will last. But there's no way to predict where you will be or what may happpen 10 years from now.

 

No, sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that if you think marriage is a joke and get married anyway, then you're not taking it seriously and it will become a joke. Those that take it seriously go into it with the understanding that marriage is a big deal and don't do it even though they are thinking that 'marriage is a joke, but he/she really wants it, so let's get married'.

 

I didn't mean that all marriages that fail are due to people not taking it seriously. There are many, many reasons why marriages fail.

[Christoper 1]

Marraige is no joke. It's deadly serious, and this is what your boyfriend is afraid of. He knows the statistics, and he knows that any marraige taking place today has relatively little chance of lasting over the long run. More to the point, he also knows that once you decide to divorce him, and about 85% of the time, it's the woman who wants out, he will stand to lose his children, his home and his paycheck for many years.

 

I wish it was otherwise, but he is reacting in a normal fashion. Most men want marraige, they simply don't want their lives torn apart when the almost inevitable divorce comes along.

[beachlover]

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

We are not even close to getting married right now. I still have 4 years until I am done with grad school and it looks like we might be in the same state for those 5 years but it is unlikely that we will be in the same city. We have been long distance for parts of the last two years and it is likely that it will continue that way.

 

I was just curious as to what other peoples thoughts on marriage being a joke. So thanks!

[juniper fumes]

While it's true that currently, the majority of divorces are initated by women, it's more like 60-65%, not 85%. Social scientists believe this bias is partly due to the fact that men are more likely to "behave badly" - e.g. drink heavily, abuse their spouses, cheat.

 

I'm not entirely sure major life decisions should be made by checking out these sorts of statistics, though. And despite my opening paragraph, I also don't think they're very useful to prove some stupid "boys against girls" theory of marriage and divorce. They're worthwhile for making very general population analyses, but the "50% divorce" statistic isn't going to influence my marriage. There are so many factors that influence these data that it's really not worth the stress of using them as personal guidelines, in my opinion.

 

I do agree that marriage is what you make of it. I believe that it's pretty difficult to know exactly what it means to spend your entire life with one person until you're in the middle of it. And then what? It seems completely understandable that it might not work out, and in many cases, no one is really to blame.

 

It's a risk worth it to some people. It means something to some people. And if two people can agree to take the risk and make it mean something together, then that's great. And if others feel it's not for them, I totally respect that. But I don't think any of these things means it's a joke. There are all kinds of different life preferences - having kids, religion - and, generally speaking, if a person were to mock me for choosing something other than s/he did, well. Frankly, my dear, I totally wouldn't care.

[Outcast]

Is this assuming that those with failed marriages didn't take it seriously? They weren't confident enough in themselves and their partners to make a lifetime committment? That's kind of insulting. I think most people sincerely believe their marriage will last.

 

I think it's more that people with failed marriages didn't truly realize that marriages are work, that life in a marriage isn't always sunny, the trouble expectations can get one into, the failure to discuss a lot of issues beforehand, and a bunch of other things that amount to decisions made without long and careful consideration of many many factors.

 

Same with people having kids. How many people honestly sit down and say to themselves 'it's possible I could have a child with serious medical issues who will require constant care every day of its life' before they decide to have little genetic inheritants?

 

I imagine biology selects against deliberation, however, because if you think these things through very well, you may take a long time to marry and never have kids and then our species would be in trouble

[MsArtful]

Though I respect that other people may have different views on marriage, I believe that it's an overrated formality. I know atleast three couples who have been together for many many years, through thick and thin and have raised a family with out being "married" in the technical sense. As long as you both love each other and are willing to commit to each other, that's all that matters.

[BentSpine]

I will not marry.

 

The literal meaning of the marriage vows make it impossible to divorce; "What God has tied together man cannot untie."

And since I both intend to keep my word and can at the same time imagine a specific situation where I would not stay, I cannot marry.

 

Someone invented so called "Deal Breakers" to get around this but I do not accept Deal Breakers unless they are explicit in the marriage vows.

[HokeyReligions]

I can see why he is skeptical about marriage, but I think that if I can still have faith in marriage after watching my parents my whole life then he should be able to as well.

 

This struck a chord with me. My question is Why Should he? He is not you, and his feelings and thoughts about marriage are his and there is nothing wrong with that. You can't change him - only he can do that if he wants to do that. That statement is akin to a Christian asking why a Jew can't believe in Jesus. Some do actually, but most don't. Faith in anything - be it religion or marriage or whatever, is a personal choice and a personal feeling and no manner of preaching, manipulation, brow-beating, or demonstration is going to change a person's faith if they don't want to change it. He may change his mind and his heart as he matures - but so may you. This is the biggest red-flag that I can see in your relationship. If he doesn't want to change can you accept that?

[beachlover]

I think a few people are mistaken in what I said... basically my boyfriend wants to get married (in fact he wants to get married in the 2 years) but every time we have talked about marriage he makes some comment about marriage being a joke. If I ask him to explain that he said that he says that all of the married couples that he knows have been divorced, so he doesn't see the point in getting married, yet he still wants to. I just don't want to get married if he has the mindset that we are just going to get divorced.

[norajane]

I think a few people are mistaken in what I said... basically my boyfriend wants to get married (in fact he wants to get married in the 2 years) but every time we have talked about marriage he makes some comment about marriage being a joke. If I ask him to explain that he said that he says that all of the married couples that he knows have been divorced, so he doesn't see the point in getting married, yet he still wants to. I just don't want to get married if he has the mindset that we are just going to get divorced.

 

If he thinks marriage is a joke and likely to end in divorce, why does he want to get married?

[ridingthebulls]

If he thinks marriage is a joke and likely to end in divorce, why does he want to get married?

 

 

yeah beachlover, your posts are making no sense whatsoever.

[Gunny376]

Ask any person what marriage is and you will get as many answers and descriptions as you as you ask as many people.

 

Marriage is a lot of things ~ but most of all it is a "living thing" in that it is made up of two living people. Thus like any living thing it requires daily nuturing and care ~ and I do mean daily. You might let it slip for a day or two ~ but no more than that.

 

Part of the amzaing thing about marriage is that people go into it thinking they prefectly know what they're doing and what they're going into, and that they are fully competent to enter into such a state ~ when in fact they don't and at best might have 10% of the knowledge base ~ expereince base ~ and skill set to make it work.

 

Like so many things in life ~ one's emotional IQ in conjunction with the other person's emotional IQ and interpersonal skills will be a common denominator of the success of the marriage ~ that and maturity ~ and the skill set that they have for communicating, setting bounderies, defining and sharing common goals.

 

From the on-set, most couples start out with at least two strikes against them ~ one being the consumer finance industry. Most people don't have a freaking clue as to handle money and finaces. Its easy loan here, easy credit card here, easy student loan here combined with the assumption that if "I do x it will yield y!" A big one is the assumption that if you go to college and complete a four year degree that you will get a decent if not great paying job. That's simply not true. I know plenty of college graduates that are working in job that they could have and would have gotten without a college degree. I've known people with an MBA working as convience store managers. I work with a woman that is doing data entry who has a masters in pyschology ~ and has the job primarly because she's the big bosses daughter ~ who's son works there as well. The Big bosses nephew works there as well ~ and he has two bachelor's degrees. And, he's working for about $8 - $9 an hour because that's all he can find ~ and he wouldn't have found that if he hadn't been related.

More truck drivers have four year college degrees than you would imagine.

 

Most jobs don't require a college degree, about 80% of them ~ but they do require additional training and education beyond high school.

 

So folks get married ~ and daily they're bombarded via television, newspapers and magazine ads that you've got to have this and you've got to have that, and you've just can't do without this and how can you live without that. And, if that's not enough ~ they they try to sell you on you're nobody unless you live in this place, in this house, and drive this kind of car.

 

Whereas most start out with entry level jobs, with nothing, get a little credit which leads to more credit, ~ easy credit ~ until you're up in debt to your eyeballs trying to live the American dream on credit. Meanwhile the husband and wife are out working jobs that pay practically nothing more than live week to week on. 80% of all American households are one week away from having a refrigerator crisis. No food in the house. They go one week without a paycheck or something ~ and they've nothing to eat. About the same are two months from being homeless. You want to talk about stress? And, we've not even got to talking about daycare, (OMG!) medical bills, and issues. Childcare issues? Child raising issues?

 

The husband becomes foucused on the "provider mode" and climbing up the food chain ~ while his boss is giving him grief about every little thing, and everything is scrutizied and judged under a glass. His best is never enough and there is always pressure to be more, do more, produce more, produce better, and if you don't its you azz. You can put out 110% for twenty years, and the first week it drops to 100% they're on you like a pack of dogs on a three legged sick cat!

 

Despite all the technology and labor saving devices ~ we're moving at way to fast a pace these days. A SAHM does the same amount work as a single woman with out any children working two jobs. You want to talk about pressure? Stress. When I was in school, you couldn't take algebra until the 10th grade ~ and now they're teaching pre-algebra and algebra in middle school.

 

If you're thinking about getting married ~ I would strongly suggest that you Goggle:

 

Debt Proof Living

Mary Hunt

Light Her Fire

Light His Fire

Marriagebuilders

Divorcenet

Get a libary card and read every book they've got on marriage, men, relationship

 

And get pre-martial couseling.

 

I'll close with this bit of wisdom:

 

When you get married, your actually marrying three different people!

The person you think you're marrying!

The person you're actuallyare marrying!

And, the person that is going to evolve and come about as a result of having been married to you!

[beachlover]

If he thinks marriage is a joke and likely to end in divorce, why does he want to get married?

 

This is my question... if he thinks marriage is a joke then why would he want to get married?? I don't understand and he can't explain it very well.

[stillafool]

I think a lot of the reason marriages don't work today is people get married for the wrong reasons. I think when you look at a partner for their future success, what their finances are, what their future earning potential may be and all the other silly reasons other than "I am in love with this person unconditionally and just can't live without them" and the person you are marrying feels the same way about you - you have a much better chance of making it through all the mud that will be thrown your way while married. It isn't that easy to fall out of love with someone you are "in love" with versus someone you love for other qualities. All things can be taken away from us. Our money, jobs, health, homes, and kids will eventually leave. You have to ask yourself would you still love and want this person if all those things were suddenly taken away.