Underestimating the importance of sex?

[norajane]

There were a couple of threads here that I read back to back which posited two separate lines of thought around sex, yet both claimed that women underestimate the importance of sex to men.

 

The thread in OW/OM forum had some posters who claimed that MM will do anything to get sex from the OW, including telling her lie upon lie upon lie...and the OW believe the MM because the OW just underestimate the importance of sex to men...that they sure do want it, and they'll do anything to get it, but it's just sex.

 

The other thread was from a gentleman having problems with lack of sex in his marriage. For him, sex with his wife was a way to express love, to feel her love, and during sex was the time he felt closest to her, most connected, most loving. And it was said that all those wives who abandon sex after marriage underestimate the importance of sex to men...that it's not just sex, but emotional intimacy.

 

And then there are the many threads and our own real life experiences which make it plain that men date to get sex, as much and as often as possible, no emotion required.

 

So, my questions: what is it that flips the switch in a man and takes sex from just a physical need to an expression of love and intimacy? Is it when they fall in love, when they make a commitment, or does it happen at some point after making a commitment?

 

And why do men expect us to not underestimate the emotional connection of sex for them, when all along we've been hearing that we shouldn't overestimate the importance of sex during dating, and that sex for men isn't necessarily about love? Why are they surprised that women don't 'get it' when suddenly sex isn't just about getting off, but feeling love?

 

I'm rambling now...does anyone get what I'm trying to ask?

[westernxer]

So, my questions: what is it that flips the switch in a man and takes sex from just a physical need to an expression of love and intimacy? Is it when they fall in love, when they make a commitment, or does it happen at some point after making a commitment?

 

Whatever his intentions, a guy will still want sex.

[norajane]

Whatever his intentions, a guy will still want sex.

 

 

That does seem to be the bottom line...

[blind_otter]

MAybe its the type of guy. IME with men, some of them just want to do the horizontal mambo, and others want some smarmy orgy of feeeeeeeelings.

[superconductor]

For a man, sex within a commited relationship is vital. It's not just about physical release, though that's often what women tend to think; it's much more about being close to the partner and solidifying the commitment to one another.

 

When the partner starts with the excuses, like the proverbial "I have a headache," not only does that hurt the male deeply (after all, it's rejection of his body and soul and commitment - how much more of a rejection can one get?) but it begins to erode the bond between the two.

 

As the bond gets eroded, the male is less likely to do all those little things that the woman finds necessary, especially in the "emotional support" department.

 

Then we hear or read that the woman doesn't feel like giving it up because the guy isn't being emotionally supportive.

 

And the cycle continues.

 

That's usually the point when the guy may start to look outside the relationship, not only for the physical intimacy, but for the acceptance that he's no longer getting from his wife or SO.

 

So ladies, when you turn down your man for sex, understand that it's just as harmful to him as if you tell him that he's fat and ugly and bald and smells bad and is a lousy father and crappy husband with a snail for a dick and all the rest. Yes, it's THAT bad.

[norajane]

MAybe its the type of guy. IME with men, some of them just want to do the horizontal mambo, and others want some smarmy orgy of feeeeeeeelings.

 

I think that's true - different men, different needs.

 

Have any of the mambo guys you've known done a 180 and dove into the feeeeelings orgy...and were they then surprised that you didn't expect that at all?

[norajane]

For a man, sex within a commited relationship is vital. It's not just about physical release, though that's often what women tend to think; it's much more about being close to the partner and solidifying the commitment to one another.

 

That's kinda what I'm getting at. We tend to think it is just about physical release, because that's what guys say sex is about. **** buddies, friends with benefits, hook-ups...it's clear that men separate sex and intimacy. Then, somehow, that all changes when they make a commitment and sex becomes all about intimacy?

[westernxer]

Then, somehow, that all changes when they make a commitment and sex becomes all about intimacy?

 

Happened to a friend of mine. He hooked up with this girl of his dreams. Now he's Mr. Sexual Intimacy, so soft and tender.

 

Nothing wrong with it, since it's healthy monogamy, but to hear him say it makes him sound like a pussy.

 

I can't stand guys who act like softies without third party solicitation.

[norajane]

Happened to a friend of mine. He hooked up with this girl of his dreams. Now he's Mr. Sexual Intimacy, so soft and tender.

 

Nothing wrong with it, since it's healthy monogamy, but to hear him say it makes him sound like a pussy.

 

I can't stand guys who act like softies without third party solicitation.

 

Maybe you'll change your mind when you meet your Ms. Tenderizer?

[shoedevil]

That's kinda what I'm getting at. We tend to think it is just about physical release, because that's what guys say sex is about. **** buddies, friends with benefits, hook-ups...it's clear that men separate sex and intimacy. Then, somehow, that all changes when they make a commitment and sex becomes all about intimacy?

Well, it's definitely about the kind of men you're meeting. If you travel across the country, there are men with a broad spectrum of values. That's one reason it's so hard to find a good match these days. People have very different wants and expectations, and they're not always honest about them. I grew up in California, never slept around, didn't view women as sex objects. I just wanted to find a girl I was compatible with and attracted to (and vice versa) for a lifelong commitment. And because of that, I felt like a stranger in a strange land. Most men I knew growing up were the exact opposite. I didn't want to be a lemming, and "do what everybody else" was doing.

 

If you really believe that men just want sex at the end of the day, no emotions, no strings, then you'll probably meet plenty of guys who'll meet your expectations. I don't think they'll stick around very long, though. However, there are also plenty of men who do express their emotions and are looking for real intimacy and happiness. Unfortunately, our society doesn't take them very seriously. There are reasons why men kill themselves four times as often as women do here in the good ol' U.S.A.

[Shane361]

It's safe to say in the first place that men are less into the emotional side of sex than woman. Woman are by nature simply more emotional in character. That already puts a damper on male/female relationship. I feel which is only cause of my experiences that it would be ten times easier to please a man in bed than for a man to please a woman. To reread this I am confused but only read into it as I have ONLY been with woman!! If a man ejaculates....it was good. But...this has not always been the case of course. But safe to say more for the man than the woman. When dealing with a woman its more about mental sex. Her head has really got to be in the game to enjoy it. She has got to be comfortable, trusting in you etc and you got to take your time and build into the sex. Wow..think Im getting off track...about to turn into a Penthouse Forum article! I personally in a relationship cant think if I want sex. It seems like the clouds leave my mind afterwards and the world is anew. Seriously! If a man in a relationship isnt getting his I believe the woman is just making life and the relationship that much worse. It may indeed be the same way for many woman..but I dont think so. Not giving sex as a means of getting back at him doesnt work in my book. He already aint thinking with the rite head and now you wanna make him think about something important?? HA HA To me a kiss with someone important is more tender or passionate than sex is. Shouldnt be that way but in this day in age it seems it is. Eeeek..now Im rambling. Dont gimmie a penny for my thoughts..I dont have change!-Shane

[jess11]

Liked your post Shane. The "rambling" was great! Your message made more sense than you think. However, I wanted to add my two cents about this:

 

 

If a man in a relationship isnt getting his I believe the woman is just making life and the relationship that much worse. It may indeed be the same way for many woman..but I dont think so.

 

I can't speak for all women, but this is the case for me. I was in a relationship for 5 1/2 years that was basically sexless (due to his issues with sex - go back and read my posts). I stayed that long because I really wanted the sex issues to work out. He is a wonderful person and we are compatible in every other way. However, no sex was creating so much tension that I inevitably had to take some space from it. So, yes, sex is important...for women too.

[norajane]

Seriously! If a man in a relationship isnt getting his I believe the woman is just making life and the relationship that much worse. It may indeed be the same way for many woman..but I dont think so. Not giving sex as a means of getting back at him doesnt work in my book. He already aint thinking with the rite head and now you wanna make him think about something important?? HA HA

 

I agree that witholding sex or using it as a blackmail tactic...sex as a weapon is a fruitless tactic. However, a guy may think that's what she's doing when that's not the case. She may not be getting hers...the attention, the affection, the conversation, the consideration, the help around the house, whatever...and just doesn't want to have sex with the man who isn't giving her what she needs. The problems outside the bedroom are a cause for the problems in the bedroom. The lack of sex is the symptom of other issues.

 

She may talk til she's blue in the face, but what will finally get him to notice there's a problem is the lack of sex. That's the first thing that goes in a troubled relationship, and it's often the only thing that gets him to realize there's something wrong.

[Shane361]

I agree that witholding sex or using it as a blackmail tactic...sex as a weapon is a fruitless tactic. However, a guy may think that's what she's doing when that's not the case. She may not be getting hers...the attention, the affection, the conversation, the consideration, the help around the house, whatever...and just doesn't want to have sex with the man who isn't giving her what she needs. The problems outside the bedroom are a cause for the problems in the bedroom. The lack of sex is the symptom of other issues.

 

She may talk til she's blue in the face, but what will finally get him to notice there's a problem is the lack of sex. That's the first thing that goes in a troubled relationship, and it's often the only thing that gets him to realize there's something wrong.

 

 

I agree totally.

[norajane]

If you really believe that men just want sex at the end of the day, no emotions, no strings, then you'll probably meet plenty of guys who'll meet your expectations. I don't think they'll stick around very long, though. However, there are also plenty of men who do express their emotions and are looking for real intimacy and happiness. Unfortunately, our society doesn't take them very seriously.

 

Actually, I don't believe that men just want sex. I think, under certain circumstances, some men just want sex: the drunken beer-goggle hook-up, as an example. And I think some men think they want just sex, but actually want the intimacy and emotion and affection that develops along with it...but they may not recognize that the intimacy is what makes the sex so good.

 

And I agree that some men do express their emotions and are looking for intimacy; unfortunately, a lot of them fall for women who aren't looking for intimacy right then and get hurt, women who want 'just sex' and yes, they are out there too.

[tanbark813]

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. It's not that it varies between different men. It's that it varies for a man among the women he's with.

 

That is, if a guy doesn't feel strongly about a woman, then the sex is only about sex and there are no feelings attached. If a guy does feel strongly about a woman, then it's not just about sex and the intimacy and feelings get associated with the physical act.

 

A guy can have a f*ckbuddy for years and never feel a thing for her. But if he loves a woman enough to marry her, then of course there will be emotional ties to the sex between them.

[Shane361]

Also agree with that as I can relate. I have dated several woman who wanted a booty call but recently divorced and not looking for anything more. I tried to be the perfect guy and have them realize it but as always it was futile. The biggest problem and I have already said it a million times on this board is the level of emotion that men have to the level woman have woman. Its hard to make it work when she is a level above and he cant relate. At the same time its usually the mans fault when the woman should try and be alittle more patient emotionally. I can rather be emotional especially for a man but at times I am very emotionally lazy. I dont thrive on it whatsoever but try to comprehend on that level in order to have a better relationship with whomever I am dating. THERES ONLY SO MUCH A MAN CAN GIVE!!! HA HA HA:laugh: -Shane

[norajane]

Tanbark, I think that's women would like to believe...that if a guy meets the right girl, he will feel strongly about her and his goals will change: he'll go from being a player to embracing emotion and commitment. I don't know if that's a good general rule, though. Many a heart has been broken by believing this.

[tanbark813]

Tanbark, I think that's women would like to believe...that if a guy meets the right girl, he will feel strongly about her and his goals will change: he'll go from being a player to embracing emotion and commitment. I don't know if that's a good general rule, though. Many a heart has been broken by believing this.

 

Yeah, well the guy has to consciously want that commitment and emotional involvement initially for that to even happen. If he's intent on being a player then it's unlikely any woman could change his mind.

[shoedevil]

Actually, I don't believe that men just want sex. I think, under certain circumstances, some men just want sex: the drunken beer-goggle hook-up, as an example. And I think some men think they want just sex, but actually want the intimacy and emotion and affection that develops along with it...but they may not recognize that the intimacy is what makes the sex so good.

People rarely change their behavior unless something radical happens to them. I've never known a player who ever changed his ways. Makes you wonder what those guys do when they get older and women stop responding to them. And it's not very useful when people throw around generalizations about the genders; they're always incorrect. There are plenty of guys who think an emotional connection with a woman is far more important than their next orgasm. If women thought all men behaved the same way and were only motivated by sex, then they wouldn't have anything to complain about, right?

And I agree that some men do express their emotions and are looking for intimacy; unfortunately, a lot of them fall for women who aren't looking for intimacy right then and get hurt, women who want 'just sex' and yes, they are out there too.

Yeah, those women were pretty easy for me to spot. Sometimes you can judge a book by it's cover and the first chapter. I avoided them like the plague, because I knew that they were only looking out for themselves, and to hell with the guys they were with. A former friend of mine dated women like that. He never had a healthy relationship, and unfortunately developed a player-like mentality. I told him I didn't think he'd ever find happiness treating women like he'd been treated. But I couldn't stand hanging out with him anymore. His attitude towards women was awful.

[Angelina1433]

What if the tables get turned and the woman feels rejected? I've had a SO and in our relationship we just don't have sex that much but are really connected and intimate. But evenso, I've felt rejected when I've asked and then been told, "I'm tired", and other excuses. But when we do, it's incredible.

 

Of course, I get the whole paranoia thing going - thinking, i'm not attractive enough, he's attracted to others, etc. But I'm pretty sure that in the end, he's just not as sexual a creature as I am.

 

Could this really be true?

[norajane]

What if the tables get turned and the woman feels rejected? I've had a SO and in our relationship we just don't have sex that much but are really connected and intimate. But evenso, I've felt rejected when I've asked and then been told, "I'm tired", and other excuses. But when we do, it's incredible.

 

Of course, I get the whole paranoia thing going - thinking, i'm not attractive enough, he's attracted to others, etc. But I'm pretty sure that in the end, he's just not as sexual a creature as I am.

 

Could this really be true?

 

Of course - it's totally possible to have mismatched sex drives where the guy is less interested than the woman. As you've already learned, as long as you don't take it personally, it doesn't have to be a big problem...as long as he's ok with you pleasuring yourself at those times he's not into it. You could even do it lying next to him...watching you might put him in the mood...

[scrybe74]

Speaking from a guy's point of view. Sex is VERY important to men. But just plain old sex is sort of a base level for most men. Most men can get by on just sex if need be but we're not just men...we're human too so we crave and want love. Emotional intimacy is something that cannot be gotten from just random sex from any old woman. Men who aren't ready for or don't want emotional intimacy right now don't bother. But at some point most men begin to yearn for emotional intimacy....and soon discover that sex is even better with that closeness to a woman. The problem is that there is a high price to being that close to someone. You're emotionally vulnerable and can be hurt, she has a much bigger influence on your life and if you actually marry her you are pretty muched trapped into a relationship with one woman....and sex is no longer on your terms. You see...if you have emotional distance from a woman...and she doesn't want to have sex with you for whatever reason...you just find someone else...in a matter of hours, days, weeks. The hunt itself is exciting so you don't mind the wait.

 

But here is the kicker...a lot of woman are willing to provide the emotional intimacy and the physical sex without the man's emotional intimacy in return. Sure...he'll say that he loves you,etc...but it's not the true deep emotional intimacy that you would want. A lot of women just settle for that. And I don't blame them because the one's that don't settle...they get a good man..but it may take quite some time...because the majority of guys you'll meet who are 'dating' will just move one. There are a few who are ready to settle down...and they will with the woman who's got standards.

 

Basically...there's not trick to getting men to desire more than just sex. You just have to be yourself and meet guys and weed out the losers until you meet a winner....I know...boring advice...but the truth.

[SoulfulGirl]

What if the tables get turned and the woman feels rejected? I've had a SO and in our relationship we just don't have sex that much but are really connected and intimate. But evenso, I've felt rejected when I've asked and then been told, "I'm tired", and other excuses. But when we do, it's incredible.

 

Of course, I get the whole paranoia thing going - thinking, i'm not attractive enough, he's attracted to others, etc. But I'm pretty sure that in the end, he's just not as sexual a creature as I am.

 

Could this really be true?

 

Yes, I believe it's true.

 

I've been with my husband for 14 years. The last ten years, the intimacy has declined dramatically. I've always been more sexual than he, and have spent many years being rejected with "I'm tired" "Not tonight" etc... but now that the emotional intimacy is gone, I"m not sure how much longer our marriage will survive. I equate our relationship to being really good friends who take care of one another. Definately not healthy in a marriage.

 

It seems like everywhere I look for answers, I see "all men want sex". Not true. What happens to a healthy young male to make him go 8-10 months w/out any form of intimacy?

 

I attempt to talk to him about this. He seems to think I think about sex 24/7 and shuts down... wont discuss it. I'm a young healthy and attractive female...I dont think the problem is with his attraction to me. What else could it be?

[stoopid_guy]

For a man, sex within a commited relationship is vital. It's not just about physical release, though that's often what women tend to think; it's much more about being close to the partner and solidifying the commitment to one another.

 

When the partner starts with the excuses, like the proverbial "I have a headache," not only does that hurt the male deeply (after all, it's rejection of his body and soul and commitment - how much more of a rejection can one get?) but it begins to erode the bond between the two.

 

As the bond gets eroded, the male is less likely to do all those little things that the woman finds necessary, especially in the "emotional support" department.

 

Then we hear or read that the woman doesn't feel like giving it up because the guy isn't being emotionally supportive.

 

And the cycle continues.

 

That's usually the point when the guy may start to look outside the relationship, not only for the physical intimacy, but for the acceptance that he's no longer getting from his wife or SO.

 

So ladies, when you turn down your man for sex, understand that it's just as harmful to him as if you tell him that he's fat and ugly and bald and smells bad and is a lousy father and crappy husband with a snail for a dick and all the rest. Yes, it's THAT bad.

 

Very well said. He probably won't feel that way the first time, or two, or three even, but eventually he will. Even if the woman does have a valid reason for not wanting intimacy at the time, eventually the man wil get frustrated and just quit trying.