selfless love is just an illusion

[Walk]

*I* used to be a person who never thought I'd have an affair. Talked about people who did. Boy, I sure had to eat those words!

I did too, and I used to say "I never"... but my exH was awake and telling me to my face that he didn't want crap to do with me. Not lying in a hospital bed after having saved my life. He was too busy spending the money that I spent all day earning to bother with my welfare.

 

Cheating is a selfish act. And I was completely selfish in what I did. I'm not saying two wrongs make me right... But she abandon her husband after a few months? I spent 2 years trying to get my exH to acknowledge we had serious problems before I gave up. Years. Not months.

 

To me, that's the difference. If she had really waited a year an a half... well, he would have woken up before she'd even thought of finding someone new, but if she had waited even a year, then maybe I could see how she would've given up at that point. But it was months and she'd already hooked up with a new guy and declared it to the OP's family. You know how much nerve that must've taken? I wonder how long she sat on that information before screwing up the courage to say something to them? And how long prior to that did she see this other man before she decided that she wanted an exclusive relationship with him? At the very least a month.. But probably 3-4 months of dating before she felt she wanted to be exclusive. At that point you're talking 8 months before he woke up, and he was only in a coma for 17 months. Hell, it takes me longer to decide on leasing an apartment then it took her to change men.

 

All I'm saying is she isn't a patient woman, and she made the bed she lies in. She needs to suck it up and accept the path she chose. Instead she's forcing him into a position of being the bad guy. She pressures him through his family even knowing his wishes. She doesn't care about him... or else she would respect his wish for privacy. She's sent her message, he's received it. If she weren't still being selfish, maybe she would understand that this isn't ALL about her. It's about him and his happiness too.

 

She's still being selfish.

[CarryingOn123]

WEll, I am the original poster who started this thread. I thought I would register, seeing the response I am getting. I honestly didnt think I'd be here this long. I had originally thought I'd just post my thread and leave, but I find I am able to express myself here.

 

 

There's a lot you may not be sure of...like exactly what your wife was told, and also whether her pregnancy was intentional. You will make a better decision when you can really get the facts and process them.

 

 

From what my Sis-in-law has told me, they were all told the same thing about my condition- i.e. the doctors couldn't predict how I would be responding.

As for the second part, my ex had told my Sis when she told her that she was pregnant that it was not a planned one and that "it just happened". I really dont want to know the gory details of how "it just happened". I have enough images in my head after watching the tape.

 

You might not have to. You may even be the legal presumptive father of your wife's unborn child. It's quite possible that if you and she decided that you would accept and rear the child, that the biofather could be legally denied any parental rights. He may also be willing to give up his rights voluntarily, if that is what you wish. Clearly that is a question that would need legal advice and lots of thinking through. I would not expect you to accept him in any role in your life or, if you stay together, your wife's life.

 

 

Not possible. He is the biological father and his rights cannot be taken away from him. Hypothetically, even if it can be done, can we really keep him away. Wont the child have to be told at some point, and then wont the child want to get in touch with him. wont the child resent me then for keeping the biological father away from the child... Moreover there is my feelings to the child too. I am not sure I wont resent the child for what he/she represents. Even if I wont resent it, I think I'll be biased when I have my own children. I dont think I'll love both equally. Other dreams are broken too. I wanted to share the journey of making children with my wife. Now her first baby has nothing to do with me, she is making that journey with some other man.

 

One thing I am sure of I cannot accept her as my wife with another man's baby. The second thing is I'n not sure I can accept her even without the baby. That is the reason why I asked her to move on. Even when she offered to get the abortion, I told her not to do anything for me, because I was not sure I can reconcile with her even after that. The other issues that I had mentioned in my previous posts are very much a sore point.

 

I will talk to her sometime soon, lets see how things unfold.

 

I am also trying to get my career back on track. I am thinking of setting up a consulting business.

[Outcast]

It is really not possible to judge another in such a situation unless you have been in that person's place. Chinook has been in the place of the OP. Nobody here has been in the place of a wife facing such a horrible loss. How many people have come to LS to complain because their partners couldn't even hack a short period being in an LDR with each other?

 

I think it's unfair to call the woman 'selfish' or anything else unless you have been in exactly that situation and acted like the saint you expected her to be.

 

It's not fair or just to demand that everyone else on the planet be strong while allowing weakness in your own self, IMHO.

 

I understand the OP's pain and grief, but as Chinook has counselled, those feelings can loom large but it may be a serious mistake to allow them to overtake you and possibly ruin the rest of both your lives. If we hope to have compassion and understanding in our lives, the least we can do is extend same to our fellow humans.

[AManWithTroubles]

You weren't dead yet. Forget her, if she can't wait 17 months for you, then what makes you think she'll make it all the way 'til death.

 

You want someone who will be there for you always. I say talk to her, just for closure, but only for closure.

 

And 17 months is only a year and a half. Someone does not "need" to find love that badly, unless they have internal problems. If you cannot love your spouse until that plug is pulled, then you don't deserve them when they come back to. Some members of the military end up on deployments away from spouses for up to a year or more. Does that give them the rights to start seeing other people?

[crazy_grl]

That does seem awefully fast for her to have moved on. If I were you, I'd probably feel the same way. I don't really sympathize with your wife very much, because I think that what she did shows that, at best, she's weak. Granted nobody's perfect, but I'd want to be with someone who doesn't fall so far short.

 

However, I agree that you shouldn't act hastily, and you should talk to her. You're going to have to deal with the situation sometime. It's not healthy to ignore it forever.

 

My heart goes out to you.

[Chinook]

It is really not possible to judge another in such a situation unless you have been in that person's place. Chinook has been in the place of the OP. Nobody here has been in the place of a wife facing such a horrible loss. How many people have come to LS to complain because their partners couldn't even hack a short period being in an LDR with each other?

 

I think it's unfair to call the woman 'selfish' or anything else unless you have been in exactly that situation and acted like the saint you expected her to be.

 

It's not fair or just to demand that everyone else on the planet be strong while allowing weakness in your own self, IMHO.

 

I understand the OP's pain and grief, but as Chinook has counselled, those feelings can loom large but it may be a serious mistake to allow them to overtake you and possibly ruin the rest of both your lives. If we hope to have compassion and understanding in our lives, the least we can do is extend same to our fellow humans.

 

You're right. I think, the whole reason I haven't focused upon the lady is simply because it's too painful. The simple fact is, I don't believe his wife probably was being selfish. Not really. Yes, he wasn't yet dead... she simply gave up hope. She failed and quite spectacularly but I doubt that she was selfish. As we all know, human beings do terrible things when consumed with grief.... all too commonly one of those things seems to be burying oneself within someone else. It is always a mistake - no matter what the situation and even had he not woken, she still would have realised this at some point. Grief is an amazingly potent and destructive force if you allow it to be so. Understanding and compassion in the OP's situation is probably downright difficult right now... which is why I'm simply asking that he take time to just postpone and think about it. In time, things may look differently. Maybe they won't. But also there is a very, very good chance they will.

[SoleMate]

He is the biological father and his rights cannot be taken away from him.

CarryingOn, I don't think you understand the law. Granted, this is an unusual case, but in the US a married man is the presumptive father of his wife's children in most or all of the 50 states. The biological father can attempt to rebut the presumption, but rarely is successful, particularly without the mother's cooperation. In fact, you may find yourself to be the legal father even if you do nothing. If the baby is born and you welcome it into your home, then you may become the conclusively presumed legal father without recourse. You would then have all the right and responsibilities of parentage. That's counter-intuitive, AND it is also the law.

 

The state has always shown a strong interest in making sure every child has a legal father, one way or another. (For some reason, this is never explained when people are getting married.) I can't urge you enough to get competent legal advice on this rather than make decisions based on your assumptions, or even advice from unqualified people like me.

 

Here's just one case that displays a bit of this reasoning: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=491&invol=110

 

Hypothetically, even if it can be done, can we really keep him away. Wont the child have to be told at some point, and then wont the child want to get in touch with him. wont the child resent me then for keeping the biological father away from the child...

That's a lot of hypotheses right there. Some of them may be true.

 

Do you see any parallel between your situation now, and the situation your wife was in 12 months ago? You've lost hope and you've written the marriage off. To you, the lack of hope seems reasonable. It's your FEELING and it colors your every judgment.

 

As a disinterested party, I evaluate your situation and I see lots of hope. I don't have any strong, personal feelings involved - just compassion for both of you.

 

You know, I may come across as an advocate for you trying to rebuild your marriage, rather than decide to let it end. I really did not intend that consciously. You have some strong arguments as to why this marriage doesn't make sense any more. It's just that, were I in your shoes, I would really want to ask her, face to face, these questions that are boiling over in my heart. What were you thinking? How could you do this? Why did you give up so quickly? Why are you calling me? Where was that persistence back when it would really have counted? If you considered her honest before, you can count on honest answers. And mostly, I want to help you slow down a bit and not make any hasty decisions. (What was the date of your reawakening?)

 

On a different topic, if you don't mind satisfying my curiosity, how about your physical recovery? I imagine you lost muscle tone and stamina while you were on the sidelines. Is that coming back? What's your physical recovery plan?

[CarryingOn123]

Hey,

 

I just wanted to clarify something here. Most of you guys, eventhough you are giving great rational advice, are assuming that I am emotionally vulnerable and making decisions in a state of emotional instability. Let me assure you that this is not the case. I am having a very rational and emotionally detatched approach to the situation.

 

I had in my earlier mails outlined why I decided to move on. It was not because my ego was hurt or I wanted to hurt her. I wanted to create a good life for myself, a happy and fulfilling one. The reasons I mentioned are various, I will list them down (I hope not to miss anything)

 

 

 

You asked me if I still loved her- I dont know...maybe a little, but let me tell you what I do know for sure. If we got back together, I will not feel like putting myself in the line of fire to protect her. That is a sad fact. and that I'm sure of. So then I ask myself.... is that the kind of relationship that I want... No... I will hopefully find a relationship in future where I can be where my heart can rule over my head.

--------------------------------

 

Well, I cant postpone making decisions ... for the simple reason that none of us can ask the baby to stop growing while I take time to make a decision. Therefore, taking time off is not a resource that we have here.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

And that is why I thought I'll let all this negative feelings behind and try to find something or someone meaningful in my life rather than settle for a "fair weather relationship". I know that there is no guarantee that I will find it, But I also know I'll never find it if I dont try. I want to find someone for whom I'll gladly give up my life for, and truly believe (mistakenly or otherwise) that she will do the same for me.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

How can I continue this relationship when I know she is going to leave me when the going is not so good afterall. What if I had an accident and got paralysed, what if I had another coma, What if I became impotent, what if I became bankrupt.... if you think about it this way, then you will know where I am coming from....

 

 

I dont think that is possible. I dont think I'm a big enough man to share my wife with another man in any way. I cant see myself playing happy families with him involved. I'm just calling a spade a spade, I'm looking at it realistically. It is not something that I can do, and it is definitely not something I want to do.

 

He is the biological father and his rights cannot be taken away from him. Hypothetically, even if it can be done, can we really keep him away. Wont the child have to be told at some point, and then wont the child want to get in touch with him. wont the child resent me then for keeping the biological father away from the child... Moreover there is my feelings to the child too. I am not sure I wont resent the child for what he/she represents. Even if I wont resent it, I think I'll be biased when I have my own children. I dont think I'll love both equally. Other dreams are broken too. I wanted to share the journey of making children with my wife. Now her first baby has nothing to do with me, she is making that journey with some other man.

 

One thing I am sure of I cannot accept her as my wife with another man's baby. The second thing is I'n not sure I can accept her even without the baby. That is the reason why I asked her to move on. Even when she offered to get the abortion, I told her not to do anything for me, because I was not sure I can reconcile with her even after that. The other issues that I had mentioned in my previous posts are very much a sore point.

 

 

Those were the reasons I came to this path. If you look at it, I have looked at it analythically and without emotion trying to find out the hard facts and answers.

 

Some replies to your messages....

 

If you talk, I would suggest some ground rules to be laid out in advance, to meet your needs for appropriate disclosure and explanations. You may want to instruct her not to bring up any topics, but simply to answer your questions. You may decide that certain issues are off limits. You may decide that any reluctance to answer means the conversation is over. You may want a third party there. You could even see a MFT in advance and ask for help in making sure that the discussion accomplishes certain goals.

 

Unfortunately, the one thing that cannot be accomplished is to unwind her actions of the last year. So your goals need to be realistic.

 

That is the problem... I dont have anything to ask her, I have no burning questions that i need to be answered... Like you said what is done cannot be undone... So why focus on how and when and where, etc..

 

What are my goals... I want to live life without compromise... live so that I dont lose one more minute of my life...Continue to be the person who I was raised up to be... well to put it simply.. those are my goals..

 

The baby is on the way yes. But you do not need to make a decision now. If she has told you that she will terminate the pregnancy for you in order for you guys to start again, this is the wrong reason I think for you to do that. But flip the coin also, it would also the wrong reason for her to KEEP the child if you guys did not get back together. That child has to be kept or terminated purely on the strength of whether it's mother can provide a nurturing and loving environment. If you feel the child is being used to hold you to ransom then I agree, it is the wrong reason to do this.

 

I didnt really understand this, will you kindly indulge me and clarify... But for the second part- dont you also have to see if the father or father figure can provide a loving and naturing environment. I have admitted that I dont think I can do that. It would be too painful for me to do that.

 

But... could you truly walk away from your wife...? I don't believe you could. I don't believe we ever really internally walk away from someone we have truly loved.

 

Suprisingly... I believe I can. I didn't think so myself. But the truth is that, now, I dont feel for her with the same intensity that I used to. and every day it seems to get easier to do so.

 

If i put this in your context.. it would probably run on the lines of that your exH wanted to get back with you, but you also realise that whatever you do thw OW is always going to be a significant part of his life.

 

If we hope to have compassion and understanding in our lives, the least we can do is extend same to our fellow humans.

 

I agree with Outcast... I should give her a chance to deal with the situation too. I decided that I will talk to her (havent decided whether to do it over phone or to meet in person). If only to give her a chance to find closure. But the fact is I dont have a clue how I want that meeting to go. As I have said, I have nothing to ask her. Well I guess I will just agree to listen to everything that she has to say.

[Chinook]

Hey,

 

I just wanted to clarify something here. Most of you guys, eventhough you are giving great rational advice, are assuming that I am emotionally vulnerable and making decisions in a state of emotional instability. Let me assure you that this is not the case. I am having a very rational and emotionally detatched approach to the situation.

 

Carrying On... I don't doubt this for a single second. What I'm trying to point out is that this may not continue like this for you. It might (and I hope for your sake it does) but it also may switch to a situation where you are emotionally affected by it. I think that's what I was trying to get across about making sure you know where you're headed.

 

 

Those were the reasons I came to this path. If you look at it, I have looked at it analytically and without emotion trying to find out the hard facts and answers.

 

Analysis and lack of emotion - spurring objectivity and clear cut paths and decisions is great. If it stays that way. Sometimes though, these things bite us on the backside. I'm not labouring a point here with you, because I sincerely believe what you say... but trying to also point out that *I* too was there... but it changed and when it did, I realised I had made a huge mistake and now I'm paying very dearly for it.

 

 

I didnt really understand this, will you kindly indulge me and clarify... But for the second part- dont you also have to see if the father or father figure can provide a loving and naturing environment. I have admitted that I dont think I can do that. It would be too painful for me to do that.

 

Yep, I had a feeling that was a little unclear. What I meant was... if by her getting rid of the baby, she sways you forwards... it's not a great reason for you guys getting back together. Also the flip side of that is, if you decide not to be swayed and don't want to reconcile... then she keeps the baby... it's not really a great reason for becoming a mother either. That is, is that baby really, truly wanted on your wife's behalf (i.e from her point of view, can she provide a loving stable environment?) The comment about the natural father I understood, I purposely left that out because I was trying to focus upon the role of your wife who will 'choose' to become a mother or not, dependent upon your decision. Hope this is a little clearer. Maybe.

 

 

But the truth is that, now, I dont feel for her with the same intensity that I used to. and every day it seems to get easier to do so.

 

If i put this in your context.. it would probably run on the lines of that your exH wanted to get back with you, but you also realise that whatever you do the OW is always going to be a significant part of his life.

 

Yep, this exact same thought has occurred to me too. Could I even tolerate that there has been more than only me in his life...? Would I wonder if we ever did get back together whether it was just because SHE dumped him or is it really something HE wants...? You're right to think this. Questioning yourself and what you think and feel is normal. But also, knowing yourself and how and why you feel the way you do - that's paramount and if you know that you don't feel the same and that has definitely gone now. Then I say walk forwards. But again, I'd caution you because I also thought this was where I was. I was convinced that the bubble had burst, my dreams were broken, my life was shattered and that he's moved on. Now...? I'm not so sure. I'm going on the theory right now that we're not together because HE doesn't want it to be so. If that ever changed, it would have to be for THAT same reason. At the moment, I believe my ex-partner is conflicted and the risk he is taking is that at some point, it may be too late. One of his final comments to me was that he didn't understand how he could love someone and on top of that love someone else as well. This is very different from your situation. But, I'm going along with the theory that he knows what he wants and sooner or later life will intervene to make him decide. Meanwhile, I stepped back and out of his life... because if he DOES make a decision towards me... it has to be because HE wants to do so.

 

 

I agree with Outcast... I should give her a chance to deal with the situation too. I decided that I will talk to her (havent decided whether to do it over phone or to meet in person). If only to give her a chance to find closure. But the fact is I dont have a clue how I want that meeting to go. As I have said, I have nothing to ask her. Well I guess I will just agree to listen to everything that she has to say.

 

I think right now, that's all you can do. Just agree to listen to her. I think the meeting would need to be in person for me though. It's easy to hide your feelings from someone on the phone. Face-to-face it is clear to the person you are talking to what and how it is affecting you. As human beings we're good at being emotional when we need to be and emotionless when we shouldn't be.

 

Good luck you.

[CarryingOn123]

CarryingOn, I don't think you understand the law. Granted, this is an unusual case, but in the US a married man is the presumptive father of his wife's children in most or all of the 50 states. The biological father can attempt to rebut the presumption, but rarely is successful, particularly without the mother's cooperation.

 

The case that you sent me was insightful... But I dont live in US. and where I am, the law states (to the best of my understanding) that the mother's husband is considered to be the father (even if he is biologically not) only if the child consider's him to be the father (i.e if the chld was brought up to an age of reasoning-3-4, believing him to be the dad). Moreover the biological dad can legaly enforce his rights to be a practising parent involved in the childs life.

 

You know, I may come across as an advocate for you trying to rebuild your marriage, rather than decide to let it end. I really did not intend that consciously. You have some strong arguments as to why this marriage doesn't make sense any more. It's just that, were I in your shoes, I would really want to ask her, face to face, these questions that are boiling over in my heart. What were you thinking? How could you do this? Why did you give up so quickly? Why are you calling me? Where was that persistence back when it would really have counted? If you considered her honest before, you can count on honest answers. And mostly, I want to help you slow down a bit and not make any hasty decisions. (What was the date of your reawakening?)?

 

No, I didnt think you were coming on strong, I just felt that you were presenting the opposite side to my arguments. Counter-arguments, so to say, which are in essence very important in any worthwile discussion. In my last post I had said I was going to talk to her, but I wasn't thinking of asking any questions but merely listen to what she has to say. But if you think these questions are important then I might bring it up, or maybe she will do that herself. And yes She was honest to me before, and i dont think she will lie to me.

 

I initially opened my eyes on the 7th of June, but I was in and out for the first 2 days. I think I was pretty much out of it from the 9th.

 

On a different topic, if you don't mind satisfying my curiosity, how about your physical recovery? I imagine you lost muscle tone and stamina while you were on the sidelines. Is that coming back? What's your physical recovery plan?

 

God! you are nosy, aren;t you.. .. Just kidding. My physical recovery is progressing better than expected. I was feeling weak in the muscles and was unsteady on my feet etc. I am much better, I can do all essential activities now, .. I cant play sport though for a couple of more months. I seem unsteady only if I am leaning or out of equillibrium. I am doing an alternative form of physiotherapy, where I exercise in a shallow swimming pool. This helps me to stretch my stamina, support my body a bit while my muscles are give workouts. I used to go to the specialists for followups every week, now it is only every month for the next 2-3 months, then it will be after 6 months.

[Mz. Pixie]

I did too, and I used to say "I never"... but my exH was awake and telling me to my face that he didn't want crap to do with me. Not lying in a hospital bed after having saved my life. He was too busy spending the money that I spent all day earning to bother with my welfare.

 

Cheating is a selfish act. And I was completely selfish in what I did. I'm not saying two wrongs make me right... But she abandon her husband after a few months? I spent 2 years trying to get my exH to acknowledge we had serious problems before I gave up. Years. Not months.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean Walk. I experienced the same thing. My exhusband just didn't want to be with me, work on our marriage or anything else. And I spent years and years and years trying to get him to do so. Pretty much when he said, "I don't have time to work on our marriage" I got the picture. Again, I'm like you- I know it was totally selfish and wrong.

 

I just wonder if perhaps somehow she didn't experience a kind of a breakdown when this happened. She was young I gather, and here her husband has gotten almost killed protecting her and he may never wake up!

 

In the meantime- she's alone and probably feeling guilty as hell because he got hurt saving her life probably.

 

I feel bad for each of them. Yet, I have to believe there was something that this person saw in her when he married her that was genuine. I consider myself to be a moral and highly ethical person. I'm not a horrible person because I cheated. What I did was terrible and wrong but I do not believe that keeps me from ever being redeemed- just as I'm sure you don't either.

 

I'm just saying that he could talk to her. Not saying he should take her back- not saying she won't do it again- I just think he should talk to her.

[norajane]

I initially opened my eyes on the 7th of June, but I was in and out for the first 2 days. I think I was pretty much out of it from the 9th.

 

Six weeks! Wow! I am truly amazed that you are so calm and rational about this...I think I would be a basket case for a long, long time after waking up and being hit with losing 17 months of my life.

 

Chinook may be right - delayed reaction is very possible if maybe you are still a little numb now from the shock of discovering what has been going on with you.

 

You spoke of your physical therapy...are you also receiving psychological counseling? It's very common for survivors of trauma to need a professional counselor...I'm thinking of one of my family who was in military service and was fine physically when he came back, but boy did the shock hit him 6 months later and wipe him out for a while. Even if you think you don't need it, please start talking to someone. Your mind needs taking care of as well as your body.

[Asafan]

Were I in the same situation I would be extremely pissed off if my wife found someone else, divorced me, and was having a child with another man after I went into a coma for 17 months because I tried to save her life! 17 months is NOTHING. No time at all really. How fast does a year go by? In a blink. Like some one else posted, she really only waited about 8 months in the vast scheme of things. I'm sorry but that is seriously f***ed up. My heart goes out to you sir. I hope you recover quickly and are able to move on with your life.

[Trimmer]

CarryingOn... (thanks for registering - it's becoming a pet peeve of mine when people carry on as "guest" - I like to have an "anonymous identity" to remember people by...)

 

So let me swing the discussion back around to how you started it. Your thread subject asserts that "selfless love is just an illusion." I want to ask you the question: do you believe this? Is this something you are learning through this experience, or was this a bitter statement of your disappointment?

 

I used to believe that my wife and I had a "selfless" (or "unconditional") love for each other, but after two affairs on her part, and her leaving the marriage.... let's say I have come to modify my views... I think that part of my problem was that I was striving for perfection, and expecting perfection, and in that endeavor, I had built up a fantasy view of marriage in general, a fantasy view of my own marriage specifically, and a fantasy view of my wife. When reality intervened, it brought those fantasies crashing down.

 

I call 2005 the year I "lost my innocence", but I don't mean that in a bitter or angry way (although I did certainly go through those.) I feel like I have a more realistic, experienced, even "adult" view of the world, of love, commitment, marriage... The killing irony is that the experience and philosophy I have now would probably have helped make our marriage a stonger, more solid one, instead of being based on a foundation of fantasy and idealism, but I try not to play "what if." At this point, like you, I can't imagine taking her back even if she wanted to.

 

But the reason I'm bringing all this up is I wonder how you feel about "selfless love" in your own future. Will you go out and look for that fantasy woman, for perfect love, for that idealized relationship that you feel like you lost? Or do you feel like you now have a different view of love and commitment and relationships? Is your wife a disappointing anomaly in an otherwise ideal world, or a lesson to be learned, and an experience to grow from?

 

I just wanted to clarify something here. Most of you guys, eventhough you are giving great rational advice, are assuming that I am emotionally vulnerable and making decisions in a state of emotional instability. Let me assure you that this is not the case. I am having a very rational and emotionally detatched approach to the situation.

That's what I'm worried about...

[Mz. Pixie]

If you were having an unemotional response to this then you never would have felt to come here to discuss the topic, in my opinion.

 

It is obviously on your mind, and hurts. And it would hurt anybody.

[CarryingOn123]

So let me swing the discussion back around to how you started it. Your thread subject asserts that "selfless love is just an illusion." I want to ask you the question: do you believe this? Is this something you are learning through this experience, or was this a bitter statement of your disappointment?

 

...............

But the reason I'm bringing all this up is I wonder how you feel about "selfless love" in your own future. Will you go out and look for that fantasy woman, for perfect love, for that idealized relationship that you feel like you lost? Or do you feel like you now have a different view of love and commitment and relationships? Is your wife a disappointing anomaly in an otherwise ideal world, or a lesson to be learned, and an experience to grow from?

 

 

it was a bitter statement due to my disappointment. I really dont beleve selfless love is impossible to find. I am just disappointed that mine was not. I see evidences of these type of relationships around me, so I know that they are not just a fantasy. My Sis-in-Law is an example. They went through their own stuff and I know how their relationship sttod the test of time. Even now, She gave (and gives) me so much more than my own wife. She considers her husband's family as her own. She is a daughter to my parents and a sister to me. there are a few other people I know of too. I grew up analysing their relationships and how they had such a good relationship, tried to learn what they did right, and wished I would have a similar one.

 

If you were having an unemotional response to this then you never would have felt to come here to discuss the topic, in my opinion.

 

It is obviously on your mind, and hurts. And it would hurt anybody.

 

Well in answer to that, I say I am "mostly" having a rational outlook. And also When I initially came to this board, it was for a different issue- i.e- how to get my wife off my back

 

But she still calls everyday.

 

How do I handle this situation? Should I change the joint petition for divorce and appeal on my own behalf? Or is there a better way.

 

its ony that once we started discussing it, it went in a totally different direction.

 

Listen... I just want to thank everyone who has shown thir support even though I dont mention everyone out by name.. thanks a lot

 

oh..Norajane- I am not seeing a professional to talk, if thats what you mean, but I am talking to a lot of people including my family, and of course you guys.

[CarryingOn123]

CarryingOn, I don't think you understand the law. Granted, this is an unusual case, but in the US a married man is the presumptive father of his wife's children in most or all of the 50 states. The biological father can attempt to rebut the presumption, but rarely is successful, particularly without the mother's cooperation. In fact, you may find yourself to be the legal father even if you do nothing. If the baby is born and you welcome it into your home, then you may become the conclusively presumed legal father without recourse. You would then have all the right and responsibilities of parentage. That's counter-intuitive, AND it is also the law.

 

The state has always shown a strong interest in making sure every child has a legal father, one way or another. (For some reason, this is never explained when people are getting married.) I can't urge you enough to get competent legal advice on this rather than make decisions based on your assumptions, or even advice from unqualified people like me.

 

Here's just one case that displays a bit of this reasoning: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=491&invol=110

 

 

 

Solemate.. reading more about this case that you sent me, I realise that the law in US is similar to the one that we have here in the sense, the state cannot force paternity on the husband during the grace period, In my contry it is mentioned as age of reasoning for the child, while in the US it is 2 years. The husband can dispute paternity for upto 2 years after the birth of the child and only if this has not been done can he be forced to take up paternity. Therfore I dont have to be the legal father if I dont want to, and I dont want to.

[silktricks]

Carryingon, I'm really sorry for the pain you've experienced, both mentally and physically. You've been through so very much. Do you understand how much your wife has been through? Have you tried to understand?

 

You've said often that your family never gave up on you, and I'm so glad that is true. Your family, however, really couldn't give up on you either, though. It's not as if they could meet someone and decide to have a new brother, sister or son, so the comparison is not accurate nor is it fair.

 

Your wife was with you when the accident occurred. Not only was she with you, you were injured while preventing HER injury. As a result of that, she was physically practically unscathed. Have you ANY idea of the amount of guilt she has almost undoubtedly experienced due to your injury? Sometime people can do some very strange and unlikely things to attempt to get past their guilt.

 

So you say that you refuse to even consider forgiving her. In some ways I can understand that. For you, you experienced no passage of time. In essence, you fell asleep and woke up the next day to your wife being pregnant with the child of another man. It must feel like the most horrible betrayal.

 

How long would you have wanted her to hold on to you, the person she had been told was a dead man sleeping. Would 2 years have been enough, 5 years, 10 years? At what point would your love for her been selfless enough to have wanted happiness for her? How long would have been long enough?

 

Your family knew how to contact her, yet they didn't do so. Why? Did they want her out of your life? You don't know what her reaction would have been because your family didn't give her a chance to make it. From what you've said of her reaction once she was told, I would bet that she would have been by your side in a matter of hours. The two of you could have worked through the pain of your injuries and her thinking she needed to move on under totally different circumstances and with completely different dynamics.

 

Frankly, if you don't give the two of you a chance to try to work things out, in the end you may find that it's yourself and your family that you end up hating, rather than your wife. I hope you manage to find forgiveness within yourself.

[Mz. Pixie]

You've said often that your family never gave up on you, and I'm so glad that is true. Your family, however, really couldn't give up on you either, though. It's not as if they could meet someone and decide to have a new brother, sister or son, so the comparison is not accurate nor is it fair.

 

Your wife was with you when the accident occurred. Not only was she with you, you were injured while preventing HER injury. As a result of that, she was physically practically unscathed. Have you ANY idea of the amount of guilt she has almost undoubtedly experienced due to your injury? Sometime people can do some very strange and unlikely things to attempt to get past their guilt.

 

So you say that you refuse to even consider forgiving her. In some ways I can understand that. For you, you experienced no passage of time. In essence, you fell asleep and woke up the next day to your wife being pregnant with the child of another man. It must feel like the most horrible betrayal.

 

How long would you have wanted her to hold on to you, the person she had been told was a dead man sleeping. Would 2 years have been enough, 5 years, 10 years? At what point would your love for her been selfless enough to have wanted happiness for her? How long would have been long enough?

 

 

 

This is sort of what I was saying. The guilt, the fact that he saved her life and the fact that she wasn't sure he would EVER wake up.

[CarryingOn123]

Carryingon, I'm really sorry for the pain you've experienced, both mentally and physically. You've been through so very much. Do you understand how much your wife has been through? Have you tried to understand?

 

If you read my earlier posts, you'll see that "Sand&Water" asked me if it was about me or was it about her. well, I am repeating my answer here. Now I dont put myself in anyone else's shoes, now I feel I need to put my feelings and my needs first. I feel the need to do that since I dont trust anyone else outside my family to do that for me.

 

You've said often that your family never gave up on you, and I'm so glad that is true. Your family, however, really couldn't give up on you either, though. It's not as if they could meet someone and decide to have a new brother, sister or son, so the comparison is not accurate nor is it fair..

 

Possibily true, but I wasnt talking about them replacing me, I was talking about the fact that they never gave up on my recovery.

 

Your wife was with you when the accident occurred. Not only was she with you, you were injured while preventing HER injury. As a result of that, she was physically practically unscathed. Have you ANY idea of the amount of guilt she has almost undoubtedly experienced due to your injury? Sometime people can do some very strange and unlikely things to attempt to get past their guilt...

 

Well, I am sorry that I caused her such guilt.

 

So you say that you refuse to even consider forgiving her. In some ways I can understand that. For you, you experienced no passage of time. In essence, you fell asleep and woke up the next day to your wife being pregnant with the child of another man. It must feel like the most horrible betrayal...

 

It felt like a betrayal, but you are wrong about the forgivness part. I have wished her well with her new life with all sincerity. I can tell you very frankly that it will give me no pleasure to see her miserable. You are confusing forgivness with reconciliation. I your own post you have a footer "Forgiveness is the release of all hope for a better past. - Alexa Young"- well I have done that, I have stopped hoping that I will wake up and find all this to be a dream, I'm just trying to make a better future for myself.

 

How long would you have wanted her to hold on to you, the person she had been told was a dead man sleeping. Would 2 years have been enough, 5 years, 10 years? At what point would your love for her been selfless enough to have wanted happiness for her? How long would have been long enough?

 

Please let me clarify a point here- She was never told I was a dead man sleeping. I was not brain dead. She was not told that I will never wake up, she was only told that the doctors couldn't predict when that will happen.

 

About the second part about time frames. ....How long would have been enough for you had you been in my shoes? How long would have been enough for you if you were involved in an accident (God forbid) and became paralysed. How long would have been enough for you if you had become impotent. How long would have been enough for you if you had become bankrupt and couldnt provide for her the way you used to.

 

And... I am not creating any obstacles in the path that she chose to find her own happiness. She chose that path to give herself happiness and fulfill whatever else her other needs were. I have told you, i wish her well in all sincerity. But I just want to ask you, is she the only one who deserves to find fullfillment and happiness. If she is justified in deciding that she had enough, and let me go to find herself happiness with another man, then why is considered hateful and cruel for me to try and find my own happiness

 

Your family knew how to contact her, yet they didn't do so. Why? Did they want her out of your life? You don't know what her reaction would have been because your family didn't give her a chance to make it. From what you've said of her reaction once she was told, I would bet that she would have been by your side in a matter of hours. The two of you could have worked through the pain of your injuries and her thinking she needed to move on under totally different circumstances and with completely different dynamics.

 

I have already explained why my family did this. Because they were scared for me, coming out of a major traume they didn't want to give me another shock and mental trauma soon afterwards. They wanted to ease me in slowly- which they did. & no, they didnt want her out of my life, it was she who chose to do that. And you are totally missing the point that my reaction to the situation is not due to the amount of time she took to get back from her cruise. It was because of what happened while I was in the hospital, and not what happened afterwards.

 

Frankly, if you don't give the two of you a chance to try to work things out, in the end you may find that it's yourself and your family that you end up hating, rather than your wife. I hope you manage to find forgiveness within yourself.

 

I have said before that I have forgiven her, and do not hate her. Like I said I try not to think of her these days, so where is the question of all this hatred eating its way in me.

 

And yes, I have decided to talk to her, as can be seen from my later posts. But I seriously see it as giving her a chance to tell her what she wants to tell me. I dont think it will be a defining point in our future.

 

I rang her cellphone and left a message (She was not available) that I will talk to her, just to give me a few days, and I will call back to arrange for it.

[CarryingOn123]

Right now, I am trying to build up strength for meeting her. I know it will be a draining experience. I dont know if I should have a third party there as someone suggested, if so- who, and what would their role be. or should I just let her plan it.

 

I was thinking of calling her and setting up the meeting for Sunday, when she wont have to go to work.

 

I also wonder where we should meet. I dont want to meet her at her house, because i would be uncomfortable beacuse that is where she replaced me. and i dont want her to come to where I'm staying, 'cause I dont want her to know where it is, because I think if she does she will turn up here all the time. There are somany things to consider. It is not as simple as dropping in and saying hi

[Walk]

I also wonder where we should meet. I dont want to meet her at her house, because i would be uncomfortable beacuse that is where she replaced me. and i dont want her to come to where I'm staying, 'cause I dont want her to know where it is, because I think if she does she will turn up here all the time.

 

I think you're right on the money about not meeting at your place.

 

These suggestions might not work for you, but thought I'd list them.

*See if your church (or a local church) would allow you to use one of their rooms for a couple hours.

 

*Counciling center. Have a counselor to sit in as mediator while you two talk.

 

*A shared friends house. Someone who's allegiance isn't "with" one or the other.

 

*A family members house. It would make her uncomfortable, and might hinder communication.

 

*Starbucks or coffee shop, at a non-busy time.

 

I wouldn't meet her for "dinner" or anything that is going to tie you there for a set period of time. Something like coffee is good because you've paid up front, and can just get up and walk out.

 

I'm not religious, but I've used the pastor at a local church to "mediate" for my exH and I while we were going through our divorce. He kept us on the important issues, and got us off any side diversions that could've caused us to spin our wheels for hours. Even though he knew the exH, and knew my opinions on religion, he never played favorites. And I didn't get a whole bunch of rhetoric on holy sanctity of marriage, blah blah... he just kept the conversation running smooth, and helped us clarify our thoughts to each other.

[IfICouldTakeItBack]

I think something that you should be prepared about is that she will ask you about your feelings about the pregnancy.

 

What are you going to tell her. Are you really going to tell her how you really feel about accepting this baby, or are you going to avoid the issue because you mentioned that you didnt want her to do anything for your sake.

 

I just thought I'll give you something to think about in case you haven't thought about it already.

[stillafool]

I have not read this entire thread so excuse me if I am repeating something.

 

What happened to "through sickness and through health"? Your wife was still married to you and 17 months in a coma and she does this? I'm sorry how selfish of her. I would not take her back. Especially when you saved her life and this is how she repays you? I think her actions were horrible and unforgivable. I would never speak to her again!!! I hope God brings someone in your life to love you the way you deserve. Good luck to you my friend.

[Outcast]

I'm sorry how selfish of her.

 

People make this judgement far too hastily, IMHO. I think they think they'd be saints given the same situation. I'd love to caution all these oh-so-indignant people that none of us knows how they'd react in a situation like this. So don't be so high-falutin' because if it were you, you might bail even faster.

 

People are tremendously strong and courageous in theory, but when life smacks them in the gob, their reactions may surprise even them.

 

So before you judge this lady, you try being in the exact situation.

 

I'm just, as they say, sayin'