selfless love is just an illusion

[Guest]

Hey OC,

 

I did hear her side of the story. Why are you saying that I dont know her story. I had posted a jist of what she had told me. Those who had expected some earth shattering reasons, were disappointed, because it was a sipmle straightforward reason - she felt lonely so she had sex with a friend, no love just sex, one time they were careless, and she got pregnant. and the rest is history.

 

Tell me, my friend, can there possibly be a version of this story that will make me feel better.... I honestly dont think so, but if you do think there can be another version, please enlighten me.

 

C0123, in fairness I think he is referring to the story from her lips. No one is doubting the authenticity of your recollection of her story but a lot of us are really interested to hear her tell her side of the story.

 

Not that it will make any difference in how we feel but at least everything will be aired.

 

And just so you know, I don't think there is a person here who doesn't feel for you and wish you the best. I know I do though I have to admit I am anxious to hear what she has to say for herself.

[Outcast]

I did hear her side of the story. Why are you saying that I dont know her story.

 

CarryingOn, I'm referring to the posters on the board, not you.

 

Tell me, my friend, can there possibly be a version of this story that will make me feel better.... I honestly dont think so, but if you do think there can be another version, please enlighten me.

 

It's not the version of the story but the feelings that go along with it. All you can feel when you hear her say that she

was lonely, miserable, depressed and missing me. She turned to him for comfort because he was there. She also told me that she is not making excuses, and that she knew even then that it was the wrong thing to do. She said she used to turn to him dor a diversion/distraction

is 'ow - but all you had to do was wait'. Because you feel betrayed, you can't feel her pain.

 

I can imagine it. I can imagine how horrible it would be to sit beside someone I love and see nothing left but a shell and be told there's no way to know if there will ever be any change. I think I could manage it. But maybe not. Sometimes I've surprised myself - both ways; sometimes I've been better than I thought I could be but a couple of times I was worse.

 

And if I've learned anything in life thus far, it's that people are not all that strong. Hardly anyone can endure great hardship well. From bazillionaire stars who are continually in rehab to clergy who have sex, I'd wager that the numbers of really strong people are far outweighed by the numbers of humans who are not very.

 

People drink, overeat, do drugs, spend all their time working - all to cope. Some people reach out to other humans - even knowing it's probably a stupid idea.

 

I'm not big on cheating. If you'd been awake, aware, communicative - if there was some semblance of you for her to relate to - even if it was a long distance relationship - at least there'd be phone calls, emails - some sort of connection and I'd agree that you were betrayed. But there was none. There was her wanting and nothing of you returning to her. And despite what all these folks have blithely been saying, a year is one heck of a long time to deal with that kind of emptiness.

 

Which is why this, IMHO, is a whole other order of situation than 'cheating'. There was no you. For all she knew, your brain was beyond repair even if you did wake up.

 

So for the next year, every moment of every day, imagine yourself sitting by the bed of someone you loved dearly who was completely gone to you. Every moment of every day imagine that loss. And see, in 365 days' time, how much strength you'd have left.

 

I like to think I'd be that strong, too. But I also know that pain and stress can wear one down and erode one's strength even despite one's best intentions.

 

I would hope that her remorse would reach you so that you can, through your own pain, feel that her pain was at least as great.

[TheSilentType]

I know that if I was in CO's place, I would have probably reacted in the same way to the situation.

 

I hope he gets better and can find a way to truly move on with his life. I'm not sure if he is seeing a counselor, but I would advise him to. Even though he has said he is moving on, a situation like this will probably linger on in his mind and may unconsciously sabotage future relationships with other women. He needs to find a counselor who will let him air out his disappointment and not make him feel "wrong" for not giving his wife another chance.

 

One more thing, the wife shouldn't terminate the pregnancy. The baby is without a doubt an innocent party in this whole mess. I'm not sure how CO feels about the baby, but I hope he doesn't have any misdirected hate towards it! The baby has absolutely no say, and is absolutely helpless.

[ridingthebulls]

For all she knew, your brain was beyond repair even if you did wake up.

 

 

From what I gather, the doc never said the man was brain damaged nor braindead. And that is one of the possiblitites the doc will tell the family. Let's not base this on conjecture. Maybe the op can tell us the deal.

[CarryingOn123]

 

It's not the version of the story but the feelings that go along with it. All you can feel when you hear her say that she is 'ow - but all you had to do was wait'. Because you feel betrayed, you can't feel her pain.

 

..............I would hope that her remorse would reach you so that you can, through your own pain, feel that her pain was at least as great.

 

I never siad she wasn't in pain. I totaly acknowledge that she was in anguish, grief, etc... But I dont think any of that justifies taking another man to bed to comfort you.... The sanctum sanctorum of our relationship has been breached. Like you said, maybe she did what she had to do to cope with her grief, but choosing this path, she tore down our relationship...

 

From bazillionaire stars who are continually in rehab to clergy who have sex, I'd wager that the numbers of really strong people are far outweighed by the numbers of humans who are not very.

 

.

 

I didnt marry any of these people did I? I didn't find any of these people as special and someone I wanted to be with. There are so many people around you, but only one person that you consider special to share your life with. And in that person you generally look a lot more for, than you would the other people around you. I could have handled or reconciled with almost anything else. But her chosing to be with another man is something that I dont think I can reconcile with.

 

 

 

I'm not big on cheating. If you'd been awake, aware, communicative - if there was some semblance of you for her to relate to - even if it was a long distance relationship - at least there'd be phone calls, emails - some sort of connection and I'd agree that you were betrayed. But there was none. There was her wanting and nothing of you returning to her. And despite what all these folks have blithely been saying, a year is one heck of a long time to deal with that kind of emptiness.

.

 

You, I assume, to be a veteran of this forum. Then you must have seen a lot of people who might give excuses like- "it is only because it was this particular situation, if it was slightly different, I wouldn't have succumbed". But you and I both know that it is not true. If she could do this, when I was in a coma, then she very well do this in any other condition where she felt that I wasn't meeting her needs- like an LDR, me being sick, etc.

 

 

For all she knew, your brain was beyond repair even if you did wake up.

.

 

Please, let us not go there again, I cant count the number of times that I have refuted this statement in this thread.

 

 

Which is why this, IMHO, is a whole other order of situation than 'cheating'. There was no you.

.

 

So according to you this is not "cheating". According to you, there was NO ME to cheat on. I assume that you mean that she had to be practical and let me go, for her to cope.

 

If, according to you, there was no me to cheat on, then there was no ongoing relationship either was there?. It would have been a relationship that had ended, am I right?

 

I fhtere was no me, then there is no me now too. If she had let me go, then it would just be a slight complication that I had woken up. A complication that can be corrected by redrawing the legal papers. You cant lose something that was not there, can you?

 

I am just extra-polating your view point to fully explore that hypothesis.

 

But if you are now saying, that she didn't let me go, and that there was a me, and that there was a relationship; Then this is "cheating". A burger by any other name would still be a burger

[CarryingOn123]

I'm not sure how CO feels about the baby, but I hope he doesn't have any misdirected hate towards it!

 

I dont have any hate towards the baby. To me the baby is just an issue at the periphery. Any issue about the baby, the way I see it as is, a snake (I am talking about the issues about the baby, and not the baby itsel) on the fence- its there, but it doesn't bother me as long as I dont pick it up and put it on my bed.

[CarryingOn123]

C0123, in fairness I think he is referring to the story from her lips. No one is doubting the authenticity of your recollection of her story but a lot of us are really interested to hear her tell her side of the story.

 

Not that it will make any difference in how we feel but at least everything will be aired.

 

And just so you know, I don't think there is a person here who doesn't feel for you and wish you the best. I know I do though I have to admit I am anxious to hear what she has to say for herself.

 

 

I haven't prevented her from writing. If she wants to she can write. What more can I say. I've told her about this site, and I guess that she has been reading this thread. If she wants to write she will, if she doesn't she wont. I cant control any of that. She can do whatever she likes.

[CarryingOn123]

I'm sorry, I guess I am a little edgy today. I am having intense reactions to everything. I think I will go to bed now..

[whichwayisup]

CO123, get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day...

 

And, take some time off from this stuff, otherwise you're going to stress out and make yourself sick over it. Go see a movie with a buddy, something funny to get you laughing.

[Outcast]

If she could do this, when I was in a coma, then she very well do this in any other condition where she felt that I wasn't meeting her needs- like an LDR, me being sick, etc.

 

Very, VERY different situations. 'In a coma' is the next closest thing to being a dead body.

 

"it is only because it was this particular situation, if it was slightly different, I wouldn't have succumbed". But you and I both know that it is not true.

 

Again, there is no other situation even remotely like the one you were in and therefore the one she was in. From your side of it, you were just out for a few moments.

[Ladyjane14]

Thats what she told me. That she had told him that she wasn't romantically interested in him, and she just wanted to be friends (with benefits, I guess) with him. and Also about the decision to marry- that she had told him that the pregnancy was the reason why she chose to go by this path, but that she will try and love him, and make a family.

 

I think maybe one of the important things to carry away from that particular discussion is that she chose to have her baby and try to make a family for it. What that tells you is that the baby is IMPORTANT to her.

 

I'm not a person who has ever selected abortion for herself... but nevertheless, I'm a pro-choice person. I point that out so that you won't take the notion that I'm biased.

 

Your wife already HAD the option to terminate her pregnancy, and she didn't... that's because she didn't really want to. If she chooses to do so now, the only possible differentiating factor is YOU. And you REALLY don't want that responsibility on your head.

 

The child she's carrying right this minute is irreplacable. There will NEVER be another just like it. And you don't want to be looking into her eyes 10 years from now, wondering if she blames you for it's loss, wondering if she's imagining what s/he might have grown to be. You don't want to hold her hand or watch her suffer on every anniversary of the abortion or due date.

 

She HAD a right to choose already... and she made her choice. Don't let her un-make it on your account. Because THIS too... will follow you into the future.

 

The kid may be special and unique and everything, but can I be a good dad to the child... I dont think so.. The OM will always be a part of my life in that case.

 

This isn't so much different than any other step-parent relationship.

 

I, for one, was blessed with a fabulous step-father. HE is the one who I could share my teenaged angst with. And HE is the one who jacked my boyfriends up by the collar and reminded them of their manners. HE was the one who paced the hospital corridor and threatened to "kick some ass" when I was 'in trouble'.

 

Yeah... the biological father will be in your life forever more in some respects. And yeah.... someday this kid will get up in your face and scream, "You-aren't-my-father-and-you-can't-tell-me-what-to-do". But IF that's your path.... you'll be able to handle it when the time comes. It's no different really than what biological parents hear during the rebellious years...."I HATE YOU!" (kid slamming door). It's just a variation on a teenaged theme.

You don't have to fear it. You'll be equal to the task when it's your time just like the rest of us.

 

My point is... don't be rushed in your decision. Your wife needs to do what's right for her. You need to do the same. The child isn't really the deciding factor. What's important is the question of *IF* you and your wife are really right for each other in personality and growth.

 

I think if you spend some time talking to both parents and step-parents, you'll be able to assuage some of your anxiety.

[Outcast]

Your wife already HAD the option to terminate her pregnancy, and she didn't... that's because she didn't really want to.

 

They're both Catholic. Strongly so, he said earlier. Therefore there would be no 'choice' to abort.

[Ladyjane14]

Didn't she offer to terminate the pregnancy if he wanted her to?

[Guest]

. Time heals.

 

Time doesn't heal anything, Its what you do with that time that will make any difference.

[newbby]

It's unkind and unfair to expect other people to be perfect and strong and be heroes and heroines. Some people can manage that but a lot of normal folks cannot.

 

 

i havent read the entire thread but there are some things that have been said that i completely agree with. this is one.

[newbby]

I have been where you have been. I was sick for 10 months. I only lost consciousness for a few days. But I was so sick, I could only watch as my spouse came and went and carried on his life as normal. I felt resentful and angry because he left me behind. I thought all through my treatment he was seeing someone else but I will never truly know. However, his lady he is with now... he's been with since we split.

 

Let me tell you something... if I were you, I would postpone your divorce. At least in the short term. There is no need to rush it right away is there...? The reason being is I believe you are grieving. You are grieving for the person you were before this accident and for the 17 months you have lost. In addition to that something like this tests a human being beyond all reason. You shouldn't have to question your wife and her loyalty but she also shouldn't have to question your being even alive and well.

 

As Trimmer says, this emotional recovery will take you some time. A significant life event like this can take years to recover from. The reason I ask you to postpone is this. When I finished treatment I was quite ill. My mother had to give up her job to take care of me and there were periods due to infections etc where the medics thought I would die. My partner wasn't interested. Essentially he was absent in my life. He seemingly didn't care.

 

However, he DID care. He simply didn't know what the feck he was doing. What your wife did was simply to focus upon a future which had been THRUST upon her. She didn't know you wouldn't recover. But neither did she know you would recover either. She opted for a path which given the circumstances being different, she would clearly not have chosen. This is where my partner was. He refused point blankly to care for me and chose to be absent (possibly seeing someone else). Consequently, when I recovered, I was angry with him. Not with him personally as the person I loved but with the situation and the part he'd been forced to play. He purely and simply DID NOT know what the hell to do. A year after my treatment finished he moved out. The gulf between us had grown so wide. I was so angry - but I was also hurt and felt betrayed.

 

It took me another year to feel less angry with him. It took me a full year to be able to talk to him civilly. He was desperate for us to make it... and I refused. Essentially, in the face of the circumstances... neither of us knew how to cope and so we did the best we could. It wasn't enough. Finally after he had been gone a year... he told me he was seeing someone new. This was at the same time I had believed we were growing closer and maybe we could look at resolving what happened.

 

In essence what happened was I took too long to get over my anger and he moved on. By the time I felt settled enough to give us both a chance and to try to retrieve the wonderful relationship we had, it was simply too late.

 

What I'm saying is, don't be too hasty. Heal yourself first and then see how you feel. You're experiencing what is referred to as a significant 'displacement' in life where you are re-acquainting yourself with everyday life and the way that you think and feel about things. This is hard enough to deal with because the person you were is gone, replaced by the guy who lay in a coma for 17 months. Your thoughts and feelings will change upon EVERYTHING and it isn't until you really find out who that NEW person is, will you truly know how you feel about the marriage. It's not such a bad thing to first of all postpone, talk with her and ask her for some time.

 

I regret staying angry so long. I have lost the love of my life because I was so insistent on moving on before I truly knew what I wanted. I thought I knew... but I really didn't.

 

another great post

[newbby]

It is really not possible to judge another in such a situation unless you have been in that person's place. Chinook has been in the place of the OP. Nobody here has been in the place of a wife facing such a horrible loss. How many people have come to LS to complain because their partners couldn't even hack a short period being in an LDR with each other?

 

I think it's unfair to call the woman 'selfish' or anything else unless you have been in exactly that situation and acted like the saint you expected her to be.

 

It's not fair or just to demand that everyone else on the planet be strong while allowing weakness in your own self, IMHO.

 

I understand the OP's pain and grief, but as Chinook has counselled, those feelings can loom large but it may be a serious mistake to allow them to overtake you and possibly ruin the rest of both your lives. If we hope to have compassion and understanding in our lives, the least we can do is extend same to our fellow humans.

 

excellent post too, and anything else outcast has said in this thread.

i am really sorry for this situation, it is very sad.

[Sup]

I know that if I was in CO's place, I would have probably reacted in the same way to the situation.

 

I hope he gets better and can find a way to truly move on with his life. I'm not sure if he is seeing a counselor, but I would advise him to. Even though he has said he is moving on, a situation like this will probably linger on in his mind and may unconsciously sabotage future relationships with other women. He needs to find a counselor who will let him air out his disappointment and not make him feel "wrong" for not giving his wife another chance.

 

One more thing, the wife shouldn't terminate the pregnancy. The baby is without a doubt an innocent party in this whole mess. I'm not sure how CO feels about the baby, but I hope he doesn't have any misdirected hate towards it! The baby has absolutely no say, and is absolutely helpless.

 

I agree the baby shouldn't be terminated. But if you do Divorce her, she shoulden't get the house and other stuff, it should be sold, and divided. She shouldn't have it for doing all this, in my opinon. YOU better make sure that SHE can't get YOU to pay child support for the baby, like I said earler, in time of course, I would contact a lawyer, why you may ask, the courts as you know are bias against men, even in these circumstances. You also shouldn't have to pay any alimony either. Just trying to look out for ya MAN!

[Galaxy]

Yep, Im sorry but none of this makes any sense. You can't divorce someone when they are in a coma. If that was the case, then Teri Schiavo's husband would have divorced her a decade ago. It's just not possible. The spouse has to sign the divorce papers or be DEAD.

[CarryingOn123]

I agree the baby shouldn't be terminated. But if you do Divorce her, she shoulden't get the house and other stuff, it should be sold, and divided. She shouldn't have it for doing all this, in my opinon. YOU better make sure that SHE can't get YOU to pay child support for the baby, like I said earler, in time of course, I would contact a lawyer, why you may ask, the courts as you know are bias against men, even in these circumstances. You also shouldn't have to pay any alimony either. Just trying to look out for ya MAN!

 

Thanks Mate, Dont worry about it. There are no complications on that front. When the split of assets were done/decided upon, the value of the house was also taken into consideration. And I dont have to pay child support if I dont want to, as I can legaly dispute paternity. Money, is really not the issue mate, she makes good money on her own.

 

For the record, my belief and values equate abortion to murder, if it is done for any other reason than saving the life of the mother.

 

Time doesn't heal anything, Its what you do with that time that will make any difference.

 

I think so too.

[CarryingOn123]

 

This isn't so much different than any other step-parent relationship.

I, for one, was blessed with a fabulous step-father. HE is the one who I could share my teenaged angst with. And HE is the one who jacked my boyfriends up by the collar and reminded them of their manners. HE was the one who paced the hospital corridor and threatened to "kick some ass" when I was 'in trouble'.

 

Yeah... the biological father will be in your life forever more in some respects. And yeah.... someday this kid will get up in your face and scream, "You-aren't-my-father-and-you-can't-tell-me-what-to-do". But IF that's your path.... you'll be able to handle it when the time comes. It's no different really than what biological parents hear during the rebellious years...."I HATE YOU!" (kid slamming door). It's just a variation on a teenaged theme.

 

You don't have to fear it. You'll be equal to the task when it's your time just like the rest of us.

 

My point is... don't be rushed in your decision. Your wife needs to do what's right for her. You need to do the same. The child isn't really the deciding factor. What's important is the question of *IF* you and your wife are really right for each other in personality and growth.

 

I think if you spend some time talking to both parents and step-parents, you'll be able to assuage some of your anxiety.

 

I tend to disagree with you here. A relationship with a step child is not similar to a relationship with a child that your wife concieved with another man while you considered her your loyal and faithful true love. There are no factors for underlying resentment in the case of a step child, while there are several here.

[CarryingOn123]

The child she's carrying right this minute is irreplacable. There will NEVER be another just like it. And you don't want to be looking into her eyes 10 years from now, wondering if she blames you for it's loss, wondering if she's imagining what s/he might have grown to be. You don't want to hold her hand or watch her suffer on every anniversary of the abortion or due date.

 

Some of tomorrow's memories will be tough to deal with. The memory of your family breaking the news to you that your wife had moved on. The memory of finding the video tape where she recreated an experience that you two had shared together with someone else. The memory of the OM's belongings littered around your house, and your belongings packed away in the garage. The memory of your first awkward meeting after the accident.

 

The future memories of things yet to come will include either the birth or the termination of the OM's child. Anniversaries of events related to your accident will continue to accumulate. Taking your wife along into the future with you makes it impossible to put this incident behind you, because so much of the future will incorporate these memories.

 

Now, that might not necessarily be a bad thing. But I do think that making the decision requires forethought. Can you really handle incorporating this bad thing that happened to you into your future on a daily basis?

 

I dont think I want to. I dont want to incorporate it in my life on a daily basis.

[CarryingOn123]

You sound like you have a great family and a TON of supportive friends. That says a lot about 'you' as a person. I would guess that you would be considered a great 'catch' and don't seem to be lacking anything other than emotional clarity for yourself.

 

Logically speaking, you're a single guy, with a lot going for him. You've been through one HELLUVA trauma that I wouldn't wish on ANYONE, but you're okay. You'll deal with all this crap as it comes, and there will be a time when you'll know what to do, and I doubt that it would include raising another mans child.

 

Thanks Jonesgirly, and for you final statement; that's what I think too.

 

 

 

This "theory" only works if both partners have the same concept, and are working for the same goal. But then, your behavior is rewarded by your partners behavior which mirrors your own beliefs. So even though you convinced yourself that you do give without expectation of a reward... the person is still expecting that the other person will treat them in the same manner.

 

You are 100% right here Walk. I totally agree with you.

[CarryingOn123]

 

And as far as the "other guy" is concerned..........I've always felt that the "other" person in any sordid affair is really NOT the guilty party. I choose to hold accountable the person that made ME the promise of fidelity. There are scoundrels waiting around every corner to lure a person into their webs. I hold responsible the person that made the CHOICE to go. <insert hope I don't sound bitter comment here>

 

I'm sure you're pissed off that he comforted your wife by having a family with her, especially since that was YOURS to begin with. QUOTE]

 

 

While he didn't make any vows with me, he knew all along that he was moving in on another man's wife. For this reason, I dont feel any sympathy for him. I know that it takes two to tango, but my heart doesn't bleed for him.

[CarryingOn123]

And as far as the "other guy" is concerned..........I've always felt that the "other" person in any sordid affair is really NOT the guilty party. I choose to hold accountable the person that made ME the promise of fidelity. There are scoundrels waiting around every corner to lure a person into their webs. I hold responsible the person that made the CHOICE to go. <insert hope I don't sound bitter comment here>

 

I'm sure you're pissed off that he comforted your wife by having a family with her, especially since that was YOURS to begin with.

 

While he didn't make any vows with me, he knew all along that he was moving in on another man's wife. For this reason, I dont feel any sympathy for him. I know that it takes two to tango, but my heart doesn't bleed for him.