selfless love is just an illusion

[CarryingOn123]

The vow's of which you speak also say until death do us part... and while I do know you were alive, perhaps in order to deal with her grief in order to get up and function on a day to day basis in some way she had to in her mind's eye believe you dead, and try to grieve that loss.

 

If I had already died in her heart and she had already "grieved me", then it is really not a big issue to maintain status quo, is it?

[CarryingOn123]

I also believe that this unconditional love of which you speak, is possible, but I think that your love for her was conditional upon her unconditional love for you, or her unconditional loyalty? Her ability to put the needs of the man she loved before her own. It seems she was unable to fullfill that, as it seems are you. I do think from what I've read here that she is making an ernest effort to put your needs first now, even if she was unable to then, and I do think that it should be taken into consideration. Again I really cannot tell you what to do nor what I would do if I were you, but I think this does bring up many cliche's to mind when trying to decide how to move forward. She dissapointed you in a fundamental and unbelievable way, but do two wrongs make a right? Can you abandon your vow's just because she did?

 

The vow's of which you speak also say until death do us part... and while I do know you were alive, perhaps in order to deal with her grief in order to get up and function on a day to day basis in some way she had to in her mind's eye believe you dead, and try to grieve that loss. Whether or not you were breathing and your heart was beating she had lost something unimaginable, she had lost you who clearly she loved very much, and clearly for good reason you are an amazing person, I'm taken aback by your ability to step back and try to look at this from the point of view of others, and your willingness to put it all out here for us strangers to scrutinize, and pick apart.

I will post what I myself have said about this view sometime back

You have a lot of telecom companies who offer you bundled packages i.e. Telephone, internet, cable tv, etc. But we have to realize that even though it ia all bundled together these are all separate services by itself

Similarly, I think you guys are bundling love, You guys said “selfless and unconditional”, while I have to say it should be split up as “selfless love”, and “unconditional love”. I believe your love can be both or just one or none of the above. I would classify mine as selfless but conditional love. It was conditional on fidelity, trust, etc. My selfless love was a product of what I perceived as her feeling towards me. I have already admitted that I don’t feel that way anymore in my earlier post

 

I respect the decisions that you have made thus far. I believe that your wife's actions, and the actions of the other man, while understandable, were indeed betrayals of the deepest kind. I don't believe that selfless, unconditional love exists in romantic relationships. I think that all romantic relationships are based on conditions and on each partner getting some significant part of their selfish needs met. Show me a relationship in which one person claims to love the other unconditionally and I will outline a simple series of actions that their partner could take that would systematically destroy that love. Show me a relationship in which one or both partners neglects their own needs, loving only selflessly, and I will show you a relationship in distress. Some may consider this view of love and relationships to be cynical or callous. But in my experience it can be quite beautiful when both partners accept that their relationship -- even if it is decades old -- is not an unbreakable bond forged by some dreamy notion of romantic love or fate but rather is held together quite tenuously by accountability, respect, hard work, and by each always living up to the implicit and explicit conditions of the other. It seems to me that your wife failed to live up to the conditions of your marriage.

.

 

True, I agree with you totally

[CarryingOn123]

CO123,

she like many of us is human and did the best she could with the hand she was dealt (which much like yours was a really crappy hand), if you make no attempt because it is too painful for you are you not even if only secondarily equally as guilty of not honoring the "for better or worse" and surely this is the worse.

.

Also, forgiveness generally comes with understanding, and you don't seem to understand her position or plight at all. I think everything takes more time than you are willing to give yourself.

You've said you forgive, but as I was trying to say, forgiveness - real genuine from the heart forgiveness - includes empathy. An understanding of the other person from their point of view. I have seen no heartfelt understanding from you towards anyone other than yourself.

 

I had made my stand clear much earlier. I am putting my needs first, just like she did with hers, if she cant give priority for my needs then I should (someone should). please read my earlier posts below

 

I have not made any accusatory remarks to her either in person, or through anyone else, or by any means of communication. In fact the only communication I had with her was a small 2 line note that I left along with the divorce papers at the solicitors. In that I just wished her all the best for her future, congratulations on her pregnancy and engagement, and that I will be OK. I have no intention of ruining her life.

 

My short term goal is to take care of myself, and not put too much stress on my brain. I have realized that I have to take care of myself and that you should not have dumb faith in anyone else being there for you. (I would have believed it completely, if it wasn’t for my family’s unconditional love for me). I do not intend to torture myself by harboring hatred for her. I just gave her what she herself had decided that she wants, and moved on..

 

Sit down with yourself for a moment; clear your head. Once you've thought things through, talk to your wife. Let me ask you: Is it about you? or about her?

.

I didnt really understand the question, but I'll answer it the way I understand the question. Currently I am focused on my feelings and my life. I am learning not to think about her. So in that sense it is all about me now.

[Sup]

Dont remind me...... How do you deal with all those graphic images in your head.

 

sorry CO123 THAT was not to you, or for you, you know what I mean:o

[CarryingOn123]

I really hope whatever you end up doing, however you move forward that you do make the choice that brings you happiness and peace with your choices and that you once again can enjoy and love life as you did before that awful fatefull day.

 

 

All the fondest wishes.

 

But despite all that you have endured, be grateful. You survived the accident. You will find a way to put this mess behind you. You will reestablish your career. You will forge deeper bonds with friends and family. You will grow wiser, and stronger. You will dare to love again.

 

You will heal.

 

Good luck, my friend.

 

Will Do, & I am greatful for the many blessings.

 

Thanks Guys

[CarryingOn123]

sorry CO123 THAT was not to you, or for you, you know what I mean:o

 

Thats Ok.. I was not asking that question about you, I was asking a general question on how someone can erase the graphic images in their head about their partners with others.

[CarryingOn123]

You know- I had a girlfriend, before my wife, who cheated on me. We were going out for a year and were pretty serious, when she had to go to the middle east for a project (she was an architecture student and since her parents were there she decided to do the project there and spend time with them too). it was supposed to be for 3 months, but she failed the first presentation and had to redo the project and submit it at the next review after a further 6 months. Well the jist is that she was staying on there with her parents till the review. and during this time we were always talking to each other on the phone, email etc. After 4 or 5 months, this good friend of mine started asking me vague questions about her, and if we were still together. I told him everything was perfect. well, the story is that our good mutual friend who was living in Dubai, called this guy up and told him somthing. Ths friend in DXB didn't know how to tell me, so he sought this guy's help. It seems while she was acting like everything is normal, she was seeing someone else there. And the truth is he wasn't even anything special, (I considered him a loser- Yes, I knew who he was). In her own words to her sister she described him as "furniture".

 

That was pretty bad then, but I survived. But it scarred me for life. I promised myself never again to be involved with someone so shallow.

[Outcast]

Does your wife know this story?

 

And yes, btw, I used the plural when I was talking about assumptions. Because you are making assumptions about everyone's motivations. But when I was talking about stress impairing rationality, I was talking about your wife. I haven't heard the other guy's story. He likely has issues of his own but without knowing anything of his story, it's pointless to assume.

[Madaline]

Wow..that was really long. I'm just speechless as to what I have read. You actually made me think about myself if I was in the position and I have to agree with you and the way that you are thinking right now. I undersand where others are coming from when they say that she thought this and did that and such. But to be honest if my husband did that to me I would be crushed too. Not trying to make you laugh or anything and probably won't but after reading this, I went and asked my husband about what he'd do. I kind of yelled at him about it and I didn't mean too. Been kind of emotionally lately so he didn't know what the heck to think except that I was nuts. lol. Lets just say that he choose his words wisely on that discussion. Poor guy.

 

Anyhow if I was in the poistion that you were in and he actually thought that I wasn't going to wake up (don't know if she did think that) he would move on and I would want him to. I think that a lot of people think that way but when it actually happends to them it's a whole other ball game. I can't say that I know whats its like to wake up and have what you thought was your life do a 180. I don't know if you agree with me or not or anyone else does but to me she cheated because technically you were still married when this all occured. Since I have strong feelings about people cheating this would be very hard for me to get passed. If that were my husband I would have stuck around. That's my husband for crying out loud. I think that if two people really love each other and have a love so deep nothing, not even a trauma event could break that. If you love someone so much that it actually hurts and I mean hurts then that person would do anything to be with that person. Even if that means just staying by their spouses sleeping side. There would always be that thought of "hes going to wake up I just know it" even if I was told that he wasn't. Of course I would be in some werid denial but hey what are you going to do.

 

You know, sometimes s**t happends and there is nothing that can be done but simply forgive and move on. I know it hard to do but sometimes it has to be done. Sitting around and dwelling on some issues isn't going to change the fact of what happend and this goes for any issue anyone has in their life. And I know the thought of "what would have happend if I hadn't pushed her out of the way" has crossed your mind. From what I get out of your posts, it sounds to me like you don't want to be with her anymore because you signed those papers (duh! I know). But I think that you should hold off on that and just see what happends. If you still want to then you can divorce, if not then you don't have to worry about getting married again. Another issue that I have is that a child is involved. Technically if you chose to stay with her you have her, the child thats not your and then the other guy to deal with. But thats a whole other post that I'm getting into. Sorry to ramble on here but I felt that I needed to post this even if it does offend you. If I did I'm sorry really I am. I think that you are handling this very well and I do wish the best for you and whatever you choose to do with yourself and your wife. I just think that you need time to get your barrings back and I know that you will. Things will work out in the end they always do.

[Roo]

Like I said they were just my thoughts, perhaps something that *Might* make you think of something differently, not that I'm vested either way I just want you to make the best decision for you, take your time, keep on as you have been thinking so carefully about it and I'm sure you will inevitably come to the right choice when you are ready.

 

Really you are remarkable, and I wish you all the best that life has to offer, you surely deserve it.

[CarryingOn123]

Does your wife know this story?

 

About the ex? yes she does.

 

We didn't have a refresher any time lately, but we had talked about our ex's and why we broke up with them early in our relationship.

[CarryingOn123]

Wow..that was really long. I'm just speechless as to what I have read. You actually made me think about myself if I was in the position and I have to agree with you and the way that you are thinking right now. I undersand where others are coming from when they say that she thought this and did that and such. But to be honest if my husband did that to me I would be crushed too. Not trying to make you laugh or anything and probably won't but after reading this, I went and asked my husband about what he'd do. I kind of yelled at him about it and I didn't mean too. Been kind of emotionally lately so he didn't know what the heck to think except that I was nuts. lol. Lets just say that he choose his words wisely on that discussion. Poor guy.

 

Anyhow if I was in the poistion that you were in and he actually thought that I wasn't going to wake up (don't know if she did think that) he would move on and I would want him to. I think that a lot of people think that way but when it actually happends to them it's a whole other ball game. I can't say that I know whats its like to wake up and have what you thought was your life do a 180. I don't know if you agree with me or not or anyone else does but to me she cheated because technically you were still married when this all occured. Since I have strong feelings about people cheating this would be very hard for me to get passed. If that were my husband I would have stuck around. That's my husband for crying out loud. I think that if two people really love each other and have a love so deep nothing, not even a trauma event could break that. If you love someone so much that it actually hurts and I mean hurts then that person would do anything to be with that person. Even if that means just staying by their spouses sleeping side. There would always be that thought of "hes going to wake up I just know it" even if I was told that he wasn't. Of course I would be in some werid denial but hey what are you going to do.

 

You know, sometimes s**t happends and there is nothing that can be done but simply forgive and move on. I know it hard to do but sometimes it has to be done. Sitting around and dwelling on some issues isn't going to change the fact of what happend and this goes for any issue anyone has in their life. And I know the thought of "what would have happend if I hadn't pushed her out of the way" has crossed your mind. From what I get out of your posts, it sounds to me like you don't want to be with her anymore because you signed those papers (duh! I know). But I think that you should hold off on that and just see what happends. If you still want to then you can divorce, if not then you don't have to worry about getting married again. Another issue that I have is that a child is involved. Technically if you chose to stay with her you have her, the child thats not your and then the other guy to deal with. But thats a whole other post that I'm getting into. Sorry to ramble on here but I felt that I needed to post this even if it does offend you. If I did I'm sorry really I am. I think that you are handling this very well and I do wish the best for you and whatever you choose to do with yourself and your wife. I just think that you need time to get your barrings back and I know that you will. Things will work out in the end they always do.

 

Madaline,

 

Why would you think I would be offended. I didn't see any reason for that. And a word of advice, I dont think you need to beat up on your husband on this situation and what might have been if it was in your case. I personally think this is a one off case, it happening to anyone else is pretty remote, so don't fret about it.

 

Thanks for your wishes

[CarryingOn123]

Like I said they were just my thoughts, perhaps something that *Might* make you think of something differently, not that I'm vested either way I just want you to make the best decision for you, take your time, keep on as you have been thinking so carefully about it and I'm sure you will inevitably come to the right choice when you are ready.

 

Really you are remarkable, and I wish you all the best that life has to offer, you surely deserve it.

 

I know where you are coming from Roo, I really do. and your thoughts are much appreciated, and I am thankful for your wishes

 

I am, in real life, a closed off person- (I dont really open myself to people unless I really trust them or are close to them). Here I am expressing almost everything I am feeling, I am trying to figure things out myself.

[whichwayisup]

I am, in real life, a closed off person- (I dont really open myself to people unless I really trust them or are close to them). Here I am expressing almost everything I am feeling, I am trying to figure things out myself.

Well, then I'm glad that you found LS because as much as we can rely on close friends and family, they can only do so much before they tire or become drained of energy by helping. (I don't mean to say you're draining them, it's just a fact of life, one can only do so much...) So, by coming here, you have even more support, getting more advice and in the midst of venting, getting things out, it's helping your recovery too. That's a good thing.

 

You sound like my husband in the sense of who you open up to and trust.

[CarryingOn123]

You sound like my husband in the sense of who you open up to and trust.

 

It's easier to open up to strangers than friends, because you know you have the exit option anytime. That is the whole "safety in anonymity" principle, I think.

[whichwayisup]

It's easier to open up to strangers than friends, because you know you have the exit option anytime. That is the whole "safety in anonymity" principle, I think.

 

Yup, that's true.

[CarryingOn123]

If you love someone so much that it actually hurts and I mean hurts then that person would do anything to be with that person. Even if that means just staying by their spouses sleeping side. There would always be that thought of "hes going to wake up I just know it" even if I was told that he wasn't. Of course I would be in some werid denial but hey what are you going to do.

 

just so you guys know, Our situation wasn't like she was constantly by my side sitting on a chair and staring a me. I was in a good private facility and was taken care of very well by them. My family came to spend time with me, but didn't need to be there to care of me on a daily basis. They came to spend time with me. My wife is a professional woman and she was working, and somtimes she used to drop in on the way back from work for half an hour or so. She came and sat in my room reading or something like that for some time during the weekends. My mother lived a couple of hours away. and she and my dad used to come every month or so to visit me. My bro used to come to see me every weekend and to talk to doctors. Mu Sil is an editor who does her work online, so she can pretty much work from anywhere, she used to come and sit in my room and work. so that was the scenario- please dont mistake it as my whole family sitting in, and pacing about, waiting outside an emergency room the entire time.

 

Another issue that I have is that a child is involved. Technically if you chose to stay with her you have her, the child thats not your and then the other guy to deal with. But thats a whole other post that I'm getting into.

 

You are not the first one to have brought it up here. We have had lengthy discussions about it. I think it is more in the first 4-5 pages. Personally I think that is the cherry on top of the sundae;) .

[whichwayisup]

Personally I think that is the cherry on top of the sundae .

 

Good way of putting it, and for her, it's a constant reminder 24/7 of her past choices. (wow, that sounds harsh and mean, but I mean it as reality.)

[Outcast]

Can a kid not be just a kid? It's so sad that people keep urging that he harden his heart

[Madaline]

I don't recall anyone saying that they blamed the kid.

[silktricks]

I had made my stand clear much earlier. I am putting my needs first, just like she did with hers, if she cant give priority for my needs then I should (someone should). please read my earlier posts below

 

CO, what I said about forgiveness has zero to do with needs - yours or hers. It has to do with exactly what I said, forgiveness. Your decision to move on or not also does not have to do with forgiveness. You need to be able to forgive people in your past so that you can move on with your life. You don't seem to be able to truly from the heart forgive. It doesn't seem to me that you've ever forgiven the woman who hurt you in your past, nor does it seem that you are able to forgive the woman in your present.

 

It's very good that you are taking care of your needs. All of us need to do that, as if we don't take care of and love ourselves, we are incapable of taking care of and loving another, and it seems that you do want to be able to sometime again have that loving connection with another person.

 

The reason I keep bringing up forgiveness does not mean that I think you should or shouldn't stay with your wife. As I said before, it's not my life, nor is it my decision. You have on a number of occasions in this thread, however, stated that you have forgiven your wife. I disagree. First, I don't believe that it's possible to forgive the depth of hurt you have experienced in the period of time you have had. Second, as I also have said before, deep, from the heart forgiveness includes a depth of understanding of the other person's position that you simply have not shown.

 

I also wonder at this point why you write here. It appears that you are simply looking for people who agree with the stand you are taking. That makes me wonder how you truly feel about that stand. There must be a part of you that is questioning it, else why are you looking so much for validation? Why don't you stop pushing for everything to be resolved quickly and simply go with the flow for awhile? Give yourself the time that you obviously need, and what so many people have suggested you take.

 

You don't have to do anything. You don't have to divorce, you don't have to reconcile, all you really have to do is get well. Let your wife make whatever decisions she's going to make - with no input from you. Wait and watch. Don't be the "doer" - that doesn't mean you need to be a victim either. The child is not your concern. Decisions your wife makes regarding the child need not be your concern. Decisions your wife makes PERIOD need not be your concern. Just watch and wait, and get well. Action is easy, that's why patience is a virtue.

 

I hope the best for you in your future.

[Roo]

BEAUTIFUL quote 2 Long I'll have to put that one in my pc for reflection!!

[Sup]

CO123, Do you think your wife will post on here, or has posted on this thread? I mean she must have read it by now, do you think she may also feign to be someone here posting to try to sway your decision. I'm not trying to give her any ideas, just trying to give you a dose of reality here. It's not like you need anymore of that though.

[whichwayisup]

I actually don't think she should come here and read his posts. She can find another board to post on, if needed. Because if she comes here, CO loses all his private thoughts that he gets out here and it's not annon. for him anymore if she shows up.

[Outcast]

WWIU, he told her to come here and read what he had to say.